Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[DanGR]

Olimar doesn't have a significant enough advantage in dealing damage to make up for this. He usually compensates for damage by Pikmin camping, which doesn't work well on characters who can fan it away easily like G&W.

The pikmin's main purpose isn't to damage the opponent. We use them to get the opponent to approach and to try and distract them, usually to land a grab a low percents. We know most characters are capable of killing off the pikmin without taking damage, but the threat of taking damage is enough to get most people to approach. If you're really up to it, you can outcamp Olimar if you're ahead in percent. Just watch out for purples and you can just nair the pikmin away until the Olimar player approaches.

Usually, Olimar's main racking comes through a dthrow combo at a low percent that ranges anywhere from 30% to 60%. Against G&W, the most Olimar should get would be about 25-30% (or two attacks- dthrow->upair/upsmash). The extra damage comes through defensive punishment play. Simple pivotgrabs, fsmashes, uptilt, retreating fairs, etc. help rack up damage until the opponent is within kill percent.

Also, I'd like to point out that Olimar's attacks deal much more damage than most character's attacks do. A fresh red upair deals 24%, less than 1/3 the damage Olimar needs in order to kill.

I am pretty sure a perfectly spaced turtle can't be punished by olimar.

In order to perfectly space a bair on Olimar's shield, you have to using a retreating bair, or use a regular bair when Olimar has a purple pikmin up next.

Be careful with your turtle; Oli can often SDI up out of it and then drop a n-air>up-smash on G&W. I think that it depends on which part of the turtle you hit Oli with, it is easier to SDI out if Oli isn't right in the middle of the turtle.

Just to touch up on this, I'm pretty sure G&W can use a dsmash before a nair would hit. I've had it done to me multiple times. Someone should test this out.

 

[_Phloat_]

I would assume it depends more on your SDI. If you SDI out and up 2 hits in, you should be golden.. if the GaW FFs into the ground predicting it and smashes you, you are in trouble. Learn to SDI and it could work very well for you, mess up and you get smashed and maybe gimped.

Essentially, there are a lot of variables =D

 

[xYz]

I never lost to Fearless with my GW, it was my IC's he beat haha .

And yes Will, those were the days haha.

good times, i can house you guys again for fast 2.. this time I have an apartment of my own. you TX guys were too cool.

 

[Fino]

Since neither of us seem to have a clue what's going on in this match-up... I vote we just play a couple games, that way we have a fresh and better understanding of the match-up. My time is free later tonite.

Also... that vid you posted of the olimar was horrendous


~Fino

 

[Cook]

Just to touch up on this, I'm pretty sure G&W can use a dsmash before a nair would hit. I've had it done to me multiple times. Someone should test this out.

Not even G&W can d-smash while he's in the air...

 

[Hylian]

good times, i can house you guys again for fast 2.. this time I have an apartment of my own. you TX guys were too cool.

Sounds amazing <3. I'll bring brawl players this time haha.

 

[asob4]

sooo i played oki in friendlies, and i kicked his *** <3

only GnW the beats me on a regular basis is leepuff, and he's just insane

maybe oki just sucks vs me?
anyway i think it's dead even, and really stage dependent, i had a talk with leepuff about it a while ago and we agree it's even
like we'll **** you hardcore on yoshi's island, but you can handle us fairly well on FD

 

[Cook]

sooo i played oki in friendlies, and i kicked his *** <3

only GnW the beats me on a regular basis is leepuff, and he's just insane

maybe oki just sucks vs me?
anyway i think it's dead even, and really stage dependent, i had a talk with leepuff about it a while ago and we agree it's even
like we'll **** you hardcore on yoshi's island, but you can handle us fairly well on FD

I think FD is great for Oli against G&W; camping is so easy and it's hard to get Oli off the stage since it's so big.

 

[asob4]

it gives GnW more aerial presence with nothing oli to hide under

yoshi's is good because the large platform limits his aerial approaches and allows us to control the ground
i beat like every GnW on yoshi's ha

 

[pheX]

Well I'd say its a pretty tough match up. I've played that match up many times, and I had a hard time if i didnt counterpick. You can pretty much **** olimar if you choose your stage wisely. On the other hand Olimar has a rather good advantage on the neutrals.
Olimar's greatest weekness is of course his recovery. His off stage Game sucks ***. then you've got G&W with his extremely nice recovery. So there is no chance for olimar to spike you. On the other hand you can edgeguard olimar easily.

Olimar has a pretty hard time as soon as he tries to approach. So in stages where he is forced to move he is likely to get *****. (Ever played against olimar on rainbow cruise? (: Olimar has to ban RC, and then you can **** olimar on Corneria. Well I guess this is not about stages.)
So back to approaching:
Gw has a huge priority advantage. Except for Olimars upair/upB/upsmash. Olimar has indeed an incredeble range, but if you consider the priority advantage and the **** gw has, it is pointless for Olimar to approach. The grab is the only thing that really makes apporaching possible. Olimar's grab changes the entire match up in my opinion.

So Olimar will probably camp and outrange you. So how can GaW approach? Neither dash attack nor fair will work. They are just to slow and to easy to punish. Dair is way to predictable and has to much lag. You gotta try to have no lag at all otherwise you get grabed instantly. So what I basicly do is a short hopped nair since it has almost no lag.
Bair does work too but you have to keep your spacing very tight! Its still risky if you space well because the grab has such an amazing range.

If Olimar is above you, you can **** him. Be careful with the uair though, I've heard that it can be canceled by Olimars dair. (Haven't seen it though) non the less you can juggle him with your nair. Olimar dies very early. Either because of his revcovery or you smashes.

I don't see why the dthrow should be a problem. Its easy to tech the dthrow and if you do the dsmash olimar has already punished you. Techchase? Well might work but its to risky from my point of view. I prefer upthrow to juggle. Olimar must stay in the air.

At this match up you gotta be very concentraded. You can't approach that easily. You gotta be careful. Olimars grab really ***** you. Keep an eye on the pikmins. Don't get hit by a white one. Don't fulljump your bair or any other aerials. Try to jump behind Olimar while approaching so that you can grab him before he does.

All in all i'd say this match up really depends on the stage and might be a 5/5 on some! Due to his awefull recovery and considering all stages I'd say its 55/45 for Game and Watch.

 

[asob4]

olimar is super **** on corneria >.>
purple usmash at twenty on fin ;D tether mindgames and safety with the fin as well


don't forget the GnW dies just as early, if not earlier
one **** up on spacing and an usmash will kill you early

oh and fsmash's are sooo good in this match
the range is very useful, it easily punishes the key and a yellow/red fsmash at the right time will stop the turtle and any approach pretty sure (super disjointed hitbox)

 

[LouBega]

yeah, don't go to corneria, olimar is really good on there. i wouldn't ban it or anything, but there are better counterpicks.

 

[asob4]

best bet would be rainbow or japes
even then rainbow can still be risky if the oli knows how to play it

 

[LouBega]

yeah. have to take advantage of the part where you move up. stay away from the short wall on the ship, so you don't eat a million fsmashes (or whatever that move is, i dunno, they all look the same to me).

i think i prefer japes.

 

[Nicole]

I really hate this matchup.

I play asc853 alot and he has a very good, VERY campy Olimar. Most good Olimars are gonna be fairly campy, which makes things really painful. An aggressive Olimar is much easier.

ANYWAY...if you're going to use turtle to approach, make sure you do it at the dead angle (think it's 45 degrees). This means you'll have to fullhop it. You can always hit Olimar without being hit this way, but it'll get REALLY predictable. Olimar's going to catch on pretty quickly that this is gonna be your approach and will easily shieldgrab you. So don't turtle much. Baiting wins this match. You have to force Oli out of his campfest (which is an extremely painful and difficult task). If you grab him, Uthrow.

Approaching is really ****ing tough, and since you're forced to approach it doesn't make life easier. The good thing (one of the only good things about this matchup) is the ease in damage dealing once you get inside. I'll get beat up by Oli for awhile, finally get inside his range, and be able to dish out damage and bring the match back to even. Nair is SOOOOOO good for this. So is Uair, for keeping Olimar in the air (REALLY REALLY REALLY important to keep him off the ground as long as you can, he's got pretty limited ways of getting back down - airdodge, dair, whistle - dair isn't too dangerous since I believe GW's nair goes through it, airdodge can be predicted, thus punished, and if he whistles he takes damage, which is always a good thing).

When you get to a high percentage, watch for Oli's Usmash. Freakin' fast as heck. The best part about this is that Oli finally stops camping, and YOU get to play defensive and punish Oli's mistakes (which GW is pretty good at). Honestly, I love to see an Olimar running Usmash. It's just the times when I don't SEE it that it's problematic (and kills me).

Obviously getting Olimar off the stage and getting that edgehog/gimp is great and can easily turn the tide in your favor. GW is pretty good at gimping, but a good Olimar can recover much better than you'd expect if you don't know the matchup. It's not as easy as you'd think to gimp Oli.

I lose this matchup alot, so I am probably biased. But in no way is this 60:40 GW. 50:50 is my vote. Um, stages I'd pick are Rainbow Cruise, Green Greens...maybe Delfino. I don't like Japes because Oli can camp under that middle platform and he's hard to get at...REALLY hard. Same with Frigate, he camps under the middle platform in the second transformation and there's no getting to him. Moving levels seem to hurt Olimar, and naturally you want alot of platforms against him (I do much better with 'em, anyway). Ban Luigi's.

 

[Cook]

^I think that Green Greens isn't bad for Oli, I'm just not good on it.


Oh, and who is this scrub? Do I know you?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Even if Olimar techs, I think D-throw is still better on Olimar than U-throw because his techroll is awful. D-throw -> Dash attack or F-air are both really good. Or you can regrab him and restart the trap. Actually on BF, Yoshis, or Lylat, go ahead and U-throw. But seriously, D-throw can't be overlooked in this matchup under any circumstances.

The way I see it, G&W has the edge in counterpicks and on Battlefield, Lylat, and Smashville. The only way I see Olimar having the advantage in this matchup is on LM, FD, or Norfair honestly. Platforms in my experience are helpful against Olimar. In avoiding his Up-smash (you avoid it by shielding and then jumping out of shield, the platform helps in that you don't have to air dodge directly to the ground.), his grab, and his camping in general, while the platforms hurt Olimar more when he goes on them.

Olimar can keep G&W out, but G&W can keep up the pressure better and edgeguard Olimar. I dunno, I'll probably have to MM some Olimar at Genesis, but I think it's in G&W's favor simply cause nobody plays perfectly, and G&W has to be directly KOed while Olimar only has to be edgeguarded. I can see the matchup being really stupid though. It's about punishing dumb mistakes.

 

[Cook]

Even if Olimar techs, I think D-throw is still better on Olimar than U-throw because his techroll is awful. D-throw -> Dash attack or F-air are both really good. Or you can regrab him and restart the trap. Actually on BF, Yoshis, or Lylat, go ahead and U-throw. But seriously, D-throw can't be overlooked in this matchup under any circumstances.

The way I see it, G&W has the edge in counterpicks and on Battlefield, Lylat, and Smashville. The only way I see Olimar having the advantage in this matchup is on LM, FD, or Norfair honestly. Platforms in my experience are helpful against Olimar. In avoiding his Up-smash (you avoid it by shielding and then jumping out of shield, the platform helps in that you don't have to air dodge directly to the ground.), his grab, and his camping in general, while the platforms hurt Olimar more when he goes on them.

Olimar can keep G&W out, but G&W can keep up the pressure better and edgeguard Olimar. I dunno, I'll probably have to MM some Olimar at Genesis, but I think it's in G&W's favor simply cause nobody plays perfectly, and G&W has to be directly KOed while Olimar only has to be edgeguarded. I can see the matchup being really stupid though. It's about punishing dumb mistakes.

Olimar only has to hold shield while tech-rolling to avoid follow-up attacks; grab is the only thing that's really guaranteed (actually, even it might be spot-dodgeable). So d-throw gives you a 50% chance at a regrab, while up-throw gives a much higher chance for n-airs and up-b's.

Why would Oli have the advantage on Norfair? It's good for aerial characters and camping is hard. I mean, it's an ok stage, but I def wouldn't wanna take a G&W there.

 

[Nicole]

Olimar only has to hold shield while tech-rolling to avoid follow-up attacks; grab is the only thing that's really guaranteed (actually, even it might be spot-dodgeable). So d-throw gives you a 50% chance at a regrab, while up-throw gives a much higher chance for n-airs and up-b's.

Why would Oli have the advantage on Norfair? It's good for aerial characters and camping is hard. I mean, it's an ok stage, but I def wouldn't wanna take a G&W there.

You can't get gimped on Norfair very easily because of the multiple ledges. Which is why I always want us to CP it when we play doubles, so that I don't have to save you (not that I ever do that anyway )

And I agree with your neutral stages A2Z, and I add Pokemon Stadium 1 as a not bad stage to start on against Oli as well (although he can camp well on a couple transformations...fire one comes to mind)

 

[Cook]

You can't get gimped on Norfair very easily because of the multiple ledges. Which is why I always want us to CP it when we play doubles, so that I don't have to save you (not that I ever do that anyway )

And I agree with your neutral stages A2Z, and I add Pokemon Stadium 1 as a not bad stage to start on against Oli as well (although he can camp well on a couple transformations...fire one comes to mind)

Oli doesn't get gimped as easily, but the overall stage layout gives aerial characters (G&W) such an advantage that imo that cancels out the gimp protection. Honestly, it's hard for G&W to gimp a good Oli anyway. The only move I can think of right now that would send Oli at a bad angle at lower percents is d-smash, and that isn't that hard to avoid; the only good setup is d-throw, which, as I've said, is completely unreliable. Otherwise, Oli can just stay near the middle of the stage and not get gimped until he's closer to kill percentages anyway.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Olimar only has to hold shield while tech-rolling to avoid follow-up attacks; grab is the only thing that's really guaranteed (actually, even it might be spot-dodgeable). So d-throw gives you a 50% chance at a regrab, while up-throw gives a much higher chance for n-airs and up-b's.

Why would Oli have the advantage on Norfair? It's good for aerial characters and camping is hard. I mean, it's an ok stage, but I def wouldn't wanna take a G&W there.

I dunno, the way I see it, there are few safe approaches on Olimar especially on the lower platform since the platforms are narrow. His D-smash is harder to avoid. His Up-B is well spaced from below. Also guaranteed recovery is a HUGE plus for a tether character.

Also, Olimar's air game isn't bad either. Rather it can be a chore for G&W to get around Olimar's Up-air on this stage.

G&W does get good advantages like more abuse of N-air and techchases, but I dunno, I think Olimar not getting gimped matters more. Not to mention I really think it's significantly harder to approach Olimar on this stage due to the platform layout.

And really, unlike the platforms on say, BF, Olimar can much more viably drop off on one side and grab the ledge of another to get around juggles.

I'm pretty sure that techchase F-air and DA are guaranteed on perfect prediction. Unless someone recently tested it and proved that wrong. But seriously, Olimar's techroll is pretty slow...I do know techchase regrab is completely guaranteed on prediction.

Honestly, I really don't have trouble gimping Olimar. G&W can pretty much get where he needs to easily, and it's only a matter of predicting an air dodge or Whistle. Weak hit of F-air puts Olimar in a position where he's easy to edgehog in most situations...while you don't want to get hit by the sweetspot either offstage.

 

[asob4]

and you've played what olimar mains???


fair will more than likely get whistled when off stage

 

[LeePuff]

Hello everyone This is pretty cool, so many g&w's in here. Well lets see, olimar seems to be the topic eh? Well what can i say...

It's important to keep alot of pressure on this lil sucker. Olimar is able to out camp you and honestely i don't think that camping is the way to go with G&W in most matches anyways. But i guess that could just be my playstyle too.

Make sure to keep that pressure with short hop turtles and grabs. Mix up those two moves along with the key and you have some nice pressure going. The good thing about keeping pressure like this is that if you hit with any of those three moves, you have a chance to combo olimar. It is in g&w's combo potential that enables him to take a stock swiftly. All three of those moves can potentially knock olimar in the air (grab's depending on what you decide to do). Most olimars go into a slight state of panic once they are in the air because they know to fear the beast that is G&W. If they don't panic then it doesn't matter anyways because you can show them that they should fear you!

I think it mainly depends on the G&W's ability to edgeguard because if you fight with olimar on the ground he has the potential to beat you down, but its in the air where you prevail. Often times olimar will come back to the stage with that little rainbow thing...lol i don't know which move it is but it gives them superarmor. Often you can either f-air them b4 they do this, or you can come back and charge your upsmash and kill em off at early percent.

This is all that really comes to mind at the moment but i hope it helps! Sorry if this read was a waste of time. It's my first post on smashboards and im just trying to help. I'm nub at giving advice so hopefully i get better. Shoutouts to Hylian and skank-imar!

 

[Hylian]

Hello everyone This is pretty cool, so many g&w's in here. Well lets see, olimar seems to be the topic eh? Well what can i say...

It's important to keep alot of pressure on this lil sucker. Olimar is able to out camp you and honestely i don't think that camping is the way to go with G&W in most matches anyways. But i guess that could just be my playstyle too.

Make sure to keep that pressure with short hop turtles and grabs. Mix up those two moves along with the key and you have some nice pressure going. The good thing about keeping pressure like this is that if you hit with any of those three moves, you have a chance to combo olimar. It is in g&w's combo potential that enables him to take a stock swiftly. All three of those moves can potentially knock olimar in the air (grab's depending on what you decide to do). Most olimars go into a slight state of panic once they are in the air because they know to fear the beast that is G&W. If they don't panic then it doesn't matter anyways because you can show them that they should fear you!

I think it mainly depends on the G&W's ability to edgeguard because if you fight with olimar on the ground he has the potential to beat you down, but its in the air where you prevail. Often times olimar will come back to the stage with that little rainbow thing...lol i don't know which move it is but it gives them superarmor. Often you can either f-air them b4 they do this, or you can come back and charge your upsmash and kill em off at early percent.

This is all that really comes to mind at the moment but i hope it helps! Sorry if this read was a waste of time. It's my first post on smashboards and im just trying to help. I'm nub at giving advice so hopefully i get better. Shoutouts to Hylian and skank-imar!

Please stay here haha . <3.

I'm going to invite you into the GW backroom as well.

 

[asob4]

<3333 lee puffff

would you say even???
i remember it was a long time ago we went over it but i think both characters metagames are pretty similar to what they were back then

i could beat you, i just go easy ;D hahahah

~skank

 

[LeePuff]

Hmmmmm i don't exactly know if it's even anymore. I haven't played against you in a long time so i can't say for sure. All i know is that i haven't lost to an olimar in a set with G&W so im guessing it could be in G&w's favor.

 

[asob4]

i think that's just you scott -___-
cause i can beat oki and any other GnW (unless they take me to japes, **** you gishnak)

and i think we played at like pbw5 or 6
first game went to last stock, then i think i SD'd second round and you two stocked me D:

 

[LeePuff]

haha thanks skank pro but actually its just you giving me a chance Going hard on the other G&W's eh?

 

[Miles.]

LeePuff is the most beast GW I have ever seen.

Got to watch a lot of your matches at Winter Game Fest. Watching you made me want to quit my main and play the 2D beast.

 

[Sky`]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

I'd just like to say, that I beat Fiction in a SRS friendly with my GaW.

Furthermore, My GaW is beast, and I plan on becoming Leepuffs Son one day. kthx.

And Skank?

MM my GaW Pl0x? <3

I played against Oli this weekend with GaW, and... I dunno. Maybe I don't k\ now enough to say, but I'd say it's near even, if not in GaW's favor.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

 

[Miles.]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

I'd just like to say, that I beat Fiction in a SRS friendly with my GaW.

Furthermore, My GaW is beast, and I plan on becoming Leepuffs Son one day. kthx.

And Skank?

MM my GaW Pl0x? <3

I played against Oli this weekend with GaW, and... I dunno. Maybe I don't k\ now enough to say, but I'd say it's near even, if not in GaW's favor.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

What a pretty post Sky.

Why dont you come train with me fool.
You live like hella close son.

Come MM me!!

 

[Sky`]

What a pretty post Sky.

Why dont you come train with me fool.
You live like hella close son.

Come MM me!!

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

Sureee, you live in Sunnyvale right?
Only if I can get dat DYCK.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

 

[Miles.]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

Sureee, you live in Sunnyvale right?
Only if I can get dat DYCK.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

Yeah man.

Hive lives down the street and there are about 5-6 smashers in the area so it would be worth the like 15 min drive or whatever it is for you.

Michael Hey lives close by too.

Ill record and our MM too.

 

[AzNfinesse]

i just have a personal gripe with this matchup. my old teams partner used to be an oli, so he knows very well how to play against gnw. a smart oli won't approach a gnw and will force u to approach. you have to have impeccable spacing with oli. if u don't he can punish you with his grab, running upsmash, dsmash, fsmash, uair, nair, fair, bair, dair....you get the idea.

when u DO decide to approach oli, the best way is from above with either a key or a retreating bair from behind him. his pikmin are a major pain and can rack up damage quick. those purple and blue pikmin will end it if you're not careful.

the one advantage you do have is your aerial game. oli's aerial game is strong, but they have relatively short animation time and very little range compared to gnw. the game is best played in the air against an oli.

also, the biggest thing to do is to GIMP GIMP GIMP. i'd say a 50:50 on this matchup, if not 55:45 in favor of GnW

 

[asob4]

sure sky ;D
if i have money that is
at SCSA 3???

i'll try to get teh moneyzz


oh and oli's uair is beastlyyyyy
**** yo key ;D

 

[LeePuff]

Lol Sky pro! haha become my son huh? haha too good. Haha oh and thanks Mr. pokemonMasterIRL. Hearing that helps to do better each time i play So im not really sure what else there is to discuss about olimar vs. G&W I think that if any of you face a good olimar that you will learn how to beat him in one or two matches. I just took a look at the matchups and i was wondering...Why is Metaknight a 40/60 match? Personally i have never encontered a MK who could consistently beat me. I think this should be changed to 50/50 or at least 45/55 in MK's favor.

 

[xYz]

Sounds amazing <3. I'll bring brawl players this time haha.

awesome, bring Dojo and sethlon... i'm dying to play falco friendlies with seth.

and play you as well, I wanna see how beast you've gotten.

 

[PhantomX]

Sethlon dropped Falco, or is in the process of doing such.

 

[omegablackmage]

so what exactly is in question for this matchup ratio? currently at 6/4, this states that gw has a decent advantage.

GW:
+ Better edgeguard game
+ Has more options to kill earlier
+ Better recovery
+ Better shield pressure
+ Destroys olimar in the air
- Can get shieldgrabbed often
- Is light, thus dies early off top
- Has no projectile to battle olimar w/ at distance


Olimar:
+ Can force gw to approach with pikmin
+ Can deal with midrange combat easily with grabs
+ Has high damage early percent combos out of grabs
+ Is slightly heavier than gw
- Doesn't deal with close range pressure that well
- Has a poor recovery
- Doesn't perform that well in the air


so overall the matches will usually involve olimar forcing gw to approach by throwing pikmin (gw can only stay away when he has a decent percent lead and uses his nair wisely to bat pikmin off). At midrange gw will have to play his range very carefully to avoid getting grabbed. Olimar will have to do his best to catch gw in landing lag to start a combo up. If gw gets close on the ground he can lay pressure down with grabs.

Olimar will want to avoid the air, as gw's nair, up air, up b, etc will lay a lot of damage down on him. Since his reach isn't all that amazing in the air, this will be gw's best place to battle him

Offstage gw will rarely get edgeguarded, however olimar will have to work a little harder to avoid dying. They always want to recover high and make use of their whistle to avoid killing blows off stage.

The way i see it, olimar has a slight advantage on the ground, forcing gw to approach and being able to grab just about all of his approaches. In the air gw wins by a decent margin. Offstage gw also wins.

In practice, it can be difficult to get olimar in the air however. Thus you'll find that a lot of the battle will actually take place on the ground, where olimar has the advantage. The question is, how much does this factor into the matchup ratio? does his ground advantage make the matchup even? or does gw still have a slight advantage over olimar due to the edgeguarding/recovery and superior air mobility/damage dealing?

 

[asob4]

those are all the reasons i say 50/50 :D
seems reasonable don't you agree?

i can see 55-45 GnW advantage though