Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[Mr. Escalator]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one feeling that way.
I personally think it's 60-40 G&W's favor from my experiences with him; I play Shaky a bit and he has a good yoshi. Yoshi King (I honestly don't know what his SWF name is) is another one.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I agree with Mmac on this one. AZ you keep saying rediculous stuff like Yoshi's uair being more telegraphed then GW's dair...really?

Yoshi can camp GW extremly well with eggs and pivot grabs. I would say 60-40 or 65-35 for GW.

Yoshi's Up-air has only one use....that is for killing stuff above him. G&W's D-air isn't nearly as limited to purposes like that. It's pretty obvious when Yoshi is going to Up-air. G&W's D-air is NOT simply just for hitting things below him.

He can camp all he likes, but he can't land a single kill move if you play safe. His pivot grab is not all that good against G&W either, since in my experience you can just approach from above with back air, and chances are if he pivot grabbed near the ledge, you will knock him off the stage.

As I said earlier, G&W should easily survive to 170% each stock. He racks on damage faster and KOs lower than Yoshi, and edgeguards waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better ON TOP OF THE FACT Yoshi has no approaches or good setups into any kill moves in this matchup. 6/4 is crazy Hylian. G&W has a huge raw stats advantage to the point where Yoshi's camping hardly matters at all.

If you're any good, you should actually be powershielding eggs, eliminating the threat from them completely, and you can do that since you can see them coming quite a bit in advance.

 

[Ussi]

Yoshi's Up-air has only one use....that is for killing stuff above him. G&W's D-air isn't nearly as limited to purposes like that. It's pretty obvious when Yoshi is going to Up-air. G&W's D-air is NOT simply just for hitting things below him.

I believe the topic is whether or not Yoshi's uair will go through G&W's dair. I don't think mind games or even all the uses of the said moves were being included.

He can camp all he likes, but he can't land a single kill move if you play safe. His pivot grab is not all that good against G&W either, since in my experience you can just approach from above with back air, and chances are if he pivot grabbed near the ledge, you will knock him off the stage.

No one can land a kill move if you "play is safe"

As I said earlier, G&W should easily survive to 170% each stock. He racks on damage faster and KOs lower than Yoshi, and edgeguards waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better ON TOP OF THE FACT Yoshi has no approaches or good setups into any kill moves in this matchup. 6/4 is crazy Hylian. G&W has a huge raw stats advantage to the point where Yoshi's camping hardly matters at all.

Yoshi isn't hopeless in power now. Do you not know how Yoshi recovers? DJAD is incredible for Yoshi. He goes his entire DJ invincible, meaning once he is out of it, he is back on the stage.

If you're any good, you should actually be powershielding eggs, eliminating the threat from them completely, and you can do that since you can see them coming quite a bit in advance.

PS eggs is right, but they still are an annoyance to deal with...

 

[DMG]

Yoshi's Up-air has only one use....that is for killing stuff above him. G&W's D-air isn't nearly as limited to purposes like that. It's pretty obvious when Yoshi is going to Up-air. G&W's D-air is NOT simply just for hitting things below him.


As I said earlier, G&W should easily survive to 170% each stock. He racks on damage faster and KOs lower than Yoshi, and edgeguards waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better ON TOP OF THE FACT Yoshi has no approaches or good setups into any kill moves in this matchup. 6/4 is crazy Hylian. G&W has a huge raw stats advantage to the point where Yoshi's camping hardly matters at all.

G&W's Dair kinda goes downwards... A lot... I don't see you hitting anyone with it unless they are below you lol.

G&W should not live up to 170%, that is ridiculous.

Like I said before, 65:35 if G&W edgecamps, 60:40 without it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W's D-air lingers which is good offstage and is useful for getting back to the ground. D-air -> D-tilt is a hard to punish brickwall. D-air is also moderately useful out of shield due to the footstool combo. It's MUCH more useful than simply just hitting things below you.

G&W will live to 170% as long as he doesn't get hit by a Smash or an undiminished Up-air, which he can very easily do. As long as he spaces well, he can pretty much only be hit by a surprise aerial attack (B-air or N-air), Jab, or tilt. Yoshi doesn't have enough options to work around diminishing returns to reliably kill G&W early without landing a lucky Smash attack. It's very obvious when he wants to use a Smash attack, nearly as obvious as it is when G&W wants to use one, except his aren't nearly as safe and he doesn't have as good of setups into anything.

If you double jump air dodge, I can wait for the air dodge and hit you out of it like I can with any character. You can't sweetspot the ledge while doublejumping, and I have all the lingering hitboxes I need to punish your air dodge. If you air dodge, I can even wait it out with a Smash attack (preferably Up-smash) and then punish you, in which case you will also be dead.

 

[bigman40]

While I don't have any true experience in this matchup (that's why I'm not saying anything), Burntsocks has the best knowledge in this matchup since he's played some of the best GWs in SoCal.

A2ZOMG, I can't really take much of your posts seriously though when they are a fail to explaining how Yoshi works. You claim you played other Yoshis, so spill their names. A lot of stuff you have said, I haven't seen anyone back up your claims, OR even agree with you. Hell, even Hylian disagrees with you. Stop going so far as it's a 10:90 ratio (this is how you're explaining it).

 

[A2ZOMG]

I can't really remember the names of people I played on the AiB ladder.

More importantly, nobody has countered anything I've said.

Yeah, Yoshi can do two things in this matchup. He can egg toss camp (which leads to nothing) or he can pivot grab a badly spaced approach (which also doesn't really lead to anything).

All G&W needs to do is properly space his back air and edgecamp, and he's not going to be hit by any of Yoshi's kill moves anytime soon. Hence why he should easily live to 170% in this matchup.

Unless Yoshi has an easy and reliable way of scoring KOs in this matchup (which I'm very certain he doesn't) this matchup is no less than 75/25.

Okay, to put emphasis on how bad this matchup should be, Wolf camps G&W better, pressures him better, and KOs him more easily, and loses 65/35. Which is a matchup number Hylian himself stated before anyone else.

 

[Ussi]

You can't really compare two characters with different properties together. Yes they have similarities but everyone does to some point. Every character is different.

Yoshi can't camp well so what? What will G&W do? He can't bucket eggs so he has to approach. Yoshi win's camping.

G&W has **** aerials and a **** ground game, and can get around the eggs fairly easy. That is what beats Yoshi so badly. but its not 75/25 -_- 35/65 is already considered borderline ****.

 

[bigman40]

AiB ladder......joy.... -____-; If this is supposed to have general knowledge on the matchup, and you don't even know their names, how credible can we use your information? Wifi is already bad (and should be used to get the just of the matchup. Not anything extra detailed), and when played offline, it's different.

 

[Ussi]

my rule of thumb is Consider those with 1800 points on the AiB Ladder to be considered good.

But wifi =/= offline the match up is completely different for both characters.

 

[ADMJP]

lol...yoshi has no good approaches...

you just indicted yourself there AZ, yoshi doesnt have to approach G&W.

Also, yoshi isnt very easy to edgeguard due to his eggs.

Another thing, yoshi's d-smash comes out pretty quickly doesnt it? So, a PSed attack would equal a stock, yes?

His jab is also very quick.

 

[Deleted member]

YOSHI DOESNT APPROACH!!!!
Firstly, i think i have very good OFFLINE TOURNAMENT G&W EXPERIENCE. I need to play lee puff tho to get a better sense.
He doesnt have to, camp camp camp.
Yoshi shield grabs bairs unless you DI away, if you do, we can roll away and then ETS!
You can cancel out eggs, doesnt make us approach.
Yoshis uair beats G&Ws dair, i do it all the time. Bait dairs and uair.

Yoshi can be tricky to kill, baiting them to land into your smashes(from the air) is harder vs yoshi because of up b momentum trixes.

If you try to dair while we are grounded, pivot grab.
Bair gets shield grabbed or we can just run away(i love running away).
Yoshi does fine on the edge(worse than vs most characters due to G&Ws attack nature).
Uair beats Dair. ETS is pretty safe, and if you full hop bair to chase, we can upsmash. Also fsmash beats bair sometimes(ours).
Yoshi NEEDS to play very very safe here, normally i play a slightly risky grab game, but thats a no-no vs G&W. However, Yoshis camping game gives G&W lots of trouble, more than most camping games, and yoshis up air makes G&W question the safety of his decent. G&W wins because of his amazing juggling, his overall solid character traits(good hitboxes, safe moves etc), and his down tilt, which is pretty amazing vs yoshi.

6:4 I would say, last time on the yoshi boards neb disagreed with me, but lets see about here.

Azomg, you really dont know anything...about anything XD Sorry to say. If you think G&W can edgeguard with anything but a charged smash on landing, play better yoshis.
Read the whole thing please, missing the part about G&W's bair gettin shield grabbed wouldnt be good

 

[Hylian]

G&W's Dair kinda goes downwards... A lot... I don't see you hitting anyone with it unless they are below you lol.

G&W should not live up to 170%, that is ridiculous.

Like I said before, 65:35 if G&W edgecamps, 60:40 without it.

This.

Seriously AZ...what? GW dair goes DOWN. Also, it's VERY easy to punish. VERY. The fact that you think Dair to Dtilt is even close to a good brickwall gives the impression that you take online into account far more then you should as that would work online but not at all in person.

Also, you keep using ONLINE to reference things. Really? I'm sorry but if you don't have any experience against good yoshi players in real life then you shouldn't be taking part in this discussion and pushing your opinions as fact when you don't even have experience to back it up.

 

[Deleted member]

Online sucks >

Also, ive never really had trouble with edgecamping. I just egg them and usually they dont feel like continually timing it so they dont get egged.

Why would this be a huge factor in the matchup?

 

[DMG]

Online sucks >

Also, ive never really had trouble with edgecamping. I just egg them and usually they dont feel like continually timing it so they dont get egged.

Why would this be a huge factor in the matchup?

Because if they are willing to put up with the eggs, it leaves Yoshi with few options to stop him from doing it, hence G&W would win on time.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Seriously AZ...what? GW dair goes DOWN. Also, it's VERY easy to punish. VERY. The fact that you think Dair to Dtilt is even close to a good brickwall gives the impression that you take online into account far more then you should as that would work online but not at all in person.

It goes downwards faster than people fastfall. If someone jumps towards you, it gets you down to the ground before they do. If they try to rush in from there, a D-tilt stops them.

Of course if you D-air while someone is just waiting on the ground, you get punished. So? I don't care about that. It's low lag enough that they won't punish it if they just did something else besides standing around idly.

As for G&W's edgecamping, Yoshi can't punish it. At all. G&W's Up-B clanks with the egg toss.

 

[Hylian]

It goes downwards faster than people fastfall. If someone jumps towards you, it gets you down to the ground before they do. If they try to rush in from there, a D-tilt stops them.

Of course if you D-air while someone is just waiting on the ground, you get punished. So? I don't care about that. It's low lag enough that they won't punish it if they just did something else besides standing around idly.

As for G&W's edgecamping, Yoshi can't punish it. At all. G&W's Up-B clanks with the egg toss.

So why wouldn't your oppoent just not jump? That leaves you in a horrible position vs most character. They could also just SHFF. Dair to Dtilt isn't even close to a brickwall.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Most characters can't contend with G&W's other aerials and he can get to their sides easily with directional influence (and retreating back-air is safe against 99.9% of all follow ups). G&W is also very good at getting to the ledge safely.

Seriously....you can't really follow up on G&W when he's in the air with most characters. Trying to is difficult and usually gets you punished. Most characters can only hope that he does something stupid (like D-airing while they are doing nothing).

 

[DMG]

Most characters can't contend with G&W's other aerials and he can get to their sides easily with directional influence (and retreating back-air is safe against 99.9% of all follow ups). G&W is also very good at getting to the ledge safely.

Seriously....you can't really follow up on G&W when he's in the air with most characters. Trying to is difficult and usually gets you punished. Most characters can only hope that he does something stupid (like D-airing while they are doing nothing).

Yoshi can Usmash you though cause he has a fat head and it like hurts bad. :/

 

[Ussi]

Now that's using your head!

AZ just cause most characters are blah blah blah does NOT mean ALL characters. So drop it. Just cause Yoshi appears worse of F tier does not mean G&W ***** yoshi to hell and back repeatily. It's in his advantage, but your stressing the wrong points.

 

[Deleted member]

We can also grab you out of retreating bairs, tru fax.

I save usmash for kills in this matchup. Camp camp camp kill =D

Does anyone disagree with my logikz on the previous page.

 

[DMG]

We can also grab you out of retreating bairs, tru fax.

I save usmash for kills in this matchup. Camp camp camp kill =D

Does anyone disagree with my logikz on the previous page.

My logic is funnier; I say Yoshi has a meaty Dinosaur head, u said he has nice priority and good hitboxes lol. But seriously, that was all truth and reasonably accurate. Unlike someone saying G&W should live til 170% haha.

 

[Tidycats29]

My logic is funnier; I say Yoshi has a meaty Dinosaur head, u said he has nice priority and good hitboxes lol. But seriously, that was all truth and reasonably accurate. Unlike someone saying G&W should live til 170% haha.

lolwut who said G&W lives 170% im lost here XD


anyway from what i know

G&W nair is annoying as hell and it breaks any weird *** approach from up

your bair can get pivot grabbed


we wont bother to try and spike you
thats just dumb as hell against G&W

we would probably just throw eggs at you
it does the job

we really dont have much trouble killing you
but you guys can kill us easier

Up close our jab and tilts > your smashes
you dtilt > out jab and tilts

your bucket has nothing here

our bair is not really something we use here much
cause your fair and bair are just better

anyway we barely approach on G&W
we camp with eggs and pivot grab a lot

i do know that we can beat your dair with our uair if timed right
and its really not that hard

upsmash is saved for killing
but it can beat your dair and sometimes depends on the angle your bair

upclose you guys just watch for jabs and yoshibomb
cause yoshibomb can kill you easy at 88% or so
and so can uairs so dont underestimate those 2 moves


err i think i pointed out wat i know

 

[Wobby]

Well, I am a GW main and a Yoshi secondary, I feel that this match up is Yoshi's second worst match up, with Marth being his worse just for the same reasons he is GW worse match up. Yoshi does not have many options in this battle. He cannot CG, his bair isn't as good as GW's bair, GW has much more priority in his attacks. If anything to be worried about in this matchup, it would be two things, watch out for Yoshi's eggs and watch out when you are recovering with UPB, for Yoshi's ranged grab can gimp you fairly well.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yoshi can Usmash you though cause he has a fat head and it like hurts bad. :/

Up-smash is like the last attack you should get hit by in this matchup. Especially since he can't land it out of shield.

If you see him running at you (very rare) that's probably the only time he can remotely consider Up-smashing. It's pretty obvious in short, and it's neither fast enough or safe enough.

If he hits you with any Smash, it might be D-smash...if you like **** your own spacing on his spotdodge.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow are you dumb.

Dsmash shouldnt really hit you very much haha. Unless you arent spacing or something. If you full hop bair we can run under and usmash. Fsmash beats your bair if angled up i think.

 

[_clinton]

G&W lives to a greater % then Yoshi does...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wow are you dumb.

Dsmash shouldnt really hit you very much haha. Unless you arent spacing or something. If you full hop bair we can run under and usmash. Fsmash beats your bair if angled up i think.

Hah, very funny.

Also no, F-smash doesn't exactly beat his B-air. If he knows how much it leans back, he will just B-air outside of the range, and it will hit your head.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course. Im not saying its usable in that way, im just saying its much more likely to happen than dsmash hitting.

Obviously, if you retreat the whole time you are going to lose badly.
The thing is that G&W HAS to take the initiative, and yoshi has the tools to punish everything G&W does, approaching wise. But once G&W gets going, he gets going hard, and if you can keep the momentum, you will will easily. Yoshi is no slouch and a good yoshi wont let you break our wall of eggs and grabs easily. Egg roll is good to get away, i recently started using it a little more to punish/ get space and its decently effective vs G&W used sparingly.

 

[omegablackmage]

Yoshi: (65/35)

General Matchup:

• Yoshi is well known for his grab game and his projectiles. Most of his other properties are rather average, which tends to keep yoshi in the lower tiers.
• His priority/range is fairly average with a few notable mentions. Up air, if timed correctly can beat your dair along with the upsmash. Your also going to want to watch out for the fsmash, which has good range.
• Kill moves are mainly the upsmash/forward smash. Up air can also work too in the right situations, along with the sweet spot of the down b. Yoshi is also known for his spikes and such, but they aren't very effective against gw, so just watch out for those four moves and you should survive a fair amount.
• Yoshi's will have to settle for egg tosses when edgeguarding gw. Any other moves will likely be beaten by nairs or up b's.
• Yoshi is pretty fast moving through the air, which can make him difficult to edgeguard at times. If he air dodges through his double jump, he can cover a lot of ground while remaining invincible. Also since he has unlimited egg tosses, he can cover a lot of horozontal ground before double jumping to safety. Do your best to interrupt his up b's with bacon or fairs, and his double jump with fairs if possible.
• Yoshi has good grab releases against a lot of characters, gw not really being an exception. If no platforms interfere, an upsmash can likely be landed. Yoshi probably won't be combo'ing all that much, this matchup boils down to a lot of hit and run for him.
• Yoshi has a pretty good tech/buffer roll, and escapes the dthrow-dsmash combo by rolling. Also, since he has pretty good air speed, he can get out of up air pressures by moving side to side. He has a fairly large frame, so you can get a pretty good amount of nairs off, combo'ing here isn't anything particularly special.

General Strategies:

• Keep a watch on his pivot grabs. Its one of his best assets in this matchup. He can use it to get around all of your aerials if spaced correctly. It should be considered his longest range tool and they will use it a lot to keep a footing in the matchup. Just watch your spacing and don't leave yourself too open.
• His other trusty tool in this matchup is his egg tosses. They can't be bucketed and can be difficult to work around at times. It is likely that the yoshi player will sit back and throw these a good portion of the matchup to force your approach. Bair can cut through them but this can also leave you open for grabs too so watch out.
• Overall the grab game and eggs do help yoshi, but can't keep gw for bay that long. Since yoshi can't deal that much damage to gw with throws it makes it difficult for yoshi to keep up in the percent game. Gw will beat yoshi in most of his approaches and his range will mostly over power yoshi. If you can keep a lot of pressure on yoshi throughout the match, and land key gimps, you should find yourself doing well.

Stages:

• Neutrals will probably work fine vs yoshi and since his recovery doesn't always require the ledge to succeed well, he'll probably find himself performing well on cp stages too. Use whatever feels comfortable for you.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you can shieldgrab G&W out of shield, you can probably land D-smash out of shield if he makes a spacing mistake (which is definitely faster). And besides, it comes out the same frame as his D-tilt, and outranges his Jab, which he doesn't like.

 

[omegablackmage]

due to cataclysm being this weekend i probably won't update this till next week sometime because i'll be busy.

 

[Deleted member]

Whatever, 65/35 works i guess.
Makes G&W think the matchup will be easy, when it is one of his harder ones imo(as in the work he has to put in).

 

[Silent Beast]

Also since he has unlimited egg tosses, he can cover a lot of horozontal ground before double jumping to safety.

Yoshi only gets a boost from his first 5 egg tosses (I think it's 5) until he lands. After that, he'll just fall at normal speed.

 

[Tidycats29]

i wouldnt say 65:45
IMO its 6:4

but it works i guess

fun being here for 2 posts XD

 

[slikvik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLk69spU-8A

Friendly with NL. just avoid everything he ***** me with and you should be fine

 

[omegablackmage]

i was gunna do 6/4, but when i thought about yoshi really only having the eggs and grabs to break gw's wall, grabs not even really doing all that much damage, he isn't all that suited to beat gw. Did i miss anything in particular in my writeup or is my logic just faulty? im willing to change it if thats the case.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sheik is 6/4. She has Needle camping and F-tilt juggles which are pretty gay. If she's really good, I think she also has grab release Boost Smash, which is hard to do, but KOs really well on everyone. Otherwise she has a tough time dealing with G&W's range and none of her other KO moves are that good.

Zelda is 7/3 at minimum IMO. This is one of the harder counterpicks in Brawl. G&W can pretty safely approach her. Her out of shield game is good, but doesn't work well in this matchup due to being slightly too slow to punish G&W out of shield and cause her D-smash doesn't have enough range. Din's Fire is shut down easily in this matchup. G&W plain outdoes her completely in the air. Now something to be careful of is that her F-smash on your shield is safe and takes quite a chunk out of it.

In this matchup, the main reason Sheik should transform is to unstale a kill move. Zelda as far as I see just doesn't have what it takes to deal with a competent G&W. She has a few powerful moves which can outprioritize G&W....that are very easy to see coming and avoid if you don't do anything stupid.

 

[omegablackmage]

what about zelda's dtilt locking, i've found that this is particularly hard for gw to get out and a dsmash is guaranteed afterwards.

 

[Tidycats29]

i was gunna do 6/4, but when i thought about yoshi really only having the eggs and grabs to break gw's wall, grabs not even really doing all that much damage, he isn't all that suited to beat gw. Did i miss anything in particular in my writeup or is my logic just faulty? im willing to change it if thats the case.

No your write up was pretty welll done

its just that it really isnt that hard to kill you with an up smash or yoshi bomb(at 85% or so)
and we can punish your moves with an up smash pretty easily if you make mistake

and up close you only have dtilt against us

everything else is fine

thats pretty much why i thought it was 6:4
cause in paper it might look a bit lop sided
but in reality its not that hard

thanks for hearing me out btw XD