Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[teluoborg]

How reliable is the training mode combo counter ? Are there things that are counted as combos that are not (beside grab releases) ? Are there things that are combos that are not counted as such ?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

So I've been playing pretty well recently and I think I am steadily growing into a good player. However it seems whenever I lose I lose because I am being too predictable. I know that I am doing this but I can't figure out how not to do it, it seems like certain things are just ingrained in me. Whenever my opponent approaches from the ground I always jump over and try and Bair them. Whenever I get put in a corner up against the ledge I always double jump then throw metal blade down.

How can I become more unpredictable?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I could say a lot, but I strongly suggest this classic piece of literature based on your problem description:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind

Understand what your various "yomi layer" options are, and you'll begin to see the guessing games inherent in most situations. If you always bair against grounded approaches, either you always win (in which case keep doing it!) or the grounded approach has some way to beat your bair. Find your counter to their counter and mix it in with your bair, and now these situations where strong opponents were exploiting your bair habit are guessing games you can plausibly win.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

That was a good read and thank you for that. I'm not talking so much about the 3 types of moves to use (shield, attack, grab) but i'm more talking about how I get in a tendency to do the same patterns of moves against every opponent. I know that I need to grab if my opponent shields but for some reason I keep getting stuck doing the same things.

I guess my question is how do I break out of my routine and mix up my strategy?

 

[Superbat]

I have trouble keeping the consistency of my game play. I can be in the zone and get all of my up air to up b strings correctly with but then get ANNIHILATED by my opponent (0- deaths). Tips for keeping consistency with my gameplay?

 

[ToxoT]

i'll be attending my first tourney on the 10th. i feel i'm ready and have a good understanding of my character and how to use them on any stage, but i can't find sensible info on stage bans. they'll be using evo rules of Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Town & City, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt, and Halberd. i don't understand how my opponent and i should agree on our stage choice for the first match and how it works after. can someone help me out?

 

[Jaxas]

i'll be attending my first tourney on the 10th. i feel i'm ready and have a good understanding of my character and how to use them on any stage, but i can't find sensible info on stage bans. they'll be using evo rules of Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Town & City, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt, and Halberd. i don't understand how my opponent and i should agree on our stage choice for the first match and how it works after. can someone help me out?

Basically, for game 1 you'll take the list and (likely one the random stage select screen) start with each stage On.

You'll (probably, might be a coinflip or something) play rock-paper-scissors, and then the winner gets to turn off the first stage.
After that, the other player tuns off 2 stages, then the winners of RPS turns off 2 more stages. This continues until there are only 2 stages left.
Once there are only 2 stages left, it'll be the RPS winner's turn and they get to strike off the last stage, leaving 1 remaining. This stage is where game 1 will happen.

Spoiler: Mock-Striking Example

Original Stage list:
- Battlefield
- Final Destination
- Smashville
- Lylat Cruise
- Town & City
- Castle Siege
- Delphino Plaza
- Duck Hunt
- Halberd



Round 1:
P1 strikes Halberd.
P2 strikes Smashville and Final Destination.

Remaining stages:
Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Town & City, Castle Siege, Delphino Plaza, Duck Hunt


Round 2:
P1 strikes Battlefield and Delphino Plaza.
P2 strikes Duck Hunt and Castle Siege.

Remaining stages:
Lylat Cruise, Town & City


Final round:
P1 strikes Lylat Cruise

Stage for Game 1: Town & City.

Hope this helps (and wasn't too confusing)!

 

[GhettoNinja]

So well I'm well aware that Smash 4 isnt as affected by Tech as Melee or 64 it doesn't mean I'm not going to add as much tech as possible this is a rough list of what I have right now

Pivots
Perfect Pivots
Shield Drop
"Dash Dancing"
Perfect Shielding
Jump Canceled Up Smash
Shoe Squeak Sliding Down Smash
B Reversals
Fox Trotting
FT Canceling (work in progress)

So if you have any obscure tech that I haven't be able to find please tell me and post a link with some way to do it.

 

[Kulty]

Hi everyone,

I play Smash4 in a semi-competitive way, to where I play competitively but I never go to tournaments (because there's no local tournaments in my region). I really want to play like top professionals, but I don't know what to do. What is the most effective way to practice like top professionals? What are the steps? What should I practice daily for my characters? Should I play competitively one of multiple characters at a time? I started to play multiple characters first. Then I came out with a ton of characters that I enjoy (mostly the majority of the cast). After I played them more, I came out with these results :
Mains : and
Secondaries : and
Other : (a key of success to improve Mario's defensive strategies and other, not a main or a secondary)
Pockets (interested in) : and (not in order)
Maybe pockets? : and. Rest is for fun, but with some exceptions.

Btw, if you recommend me Online For Glory 1v1, that's totally out of question, because I HATE THIS MODE SO MUCH BECAUSE OF LAG! Also, I don't have any good friends that play Smash competitively, they play casually mostly. I need your help, guys. For Mario and Sonic mains out there, if you have any tips of daily practice to become better with them, please let me know! I would love to hear them. Thank you so much!

 

[WhoIsJewlz]

Ever heard of SmashLadder? It's a ranking system for online smash. Yeah it's not like in person, but connection w/ players on there is a ton more better than FG. Plus, you play on official tournament maps (aka not everything Omega) so it's a good start until you find locals who play competitively/tournaments. Also, people do give friendly advice on how to improve your game. I've enjoyed my games on there personally.

 

[Kulty]

Ever heard of SmashLadder? It's a ranking system for online smash. Yeah it's not like in person, but connection w/ players on there is a ton more better than FG. Plus, you play on official tournament maps (aka not everything Omega) so it's a good start until you find locals who play competitively/tournaments. Also, people do give friendly advice on how to improve your game. I've enjoyed my games on there personally.

Nope, I never heard of it. Is there a lot of lag? I really wanted to avoid playing with other people that I don't really know about their Internet connection. I don't know if it's worth creating an account just to play with others! I also may not have the time to attend tournaments (personal life and stuff). Any other possible tips? Like trying to master the new mechanics first? I feel that I'm still not ready to fight against real human players. Don't really know honestly.

 

[WhoIsJewlz]

Nope, I never heard of it. Is there a lot of lag? I really wanted to avoid playing with other people that I don't really know about their Internet connection. I don't know if it's worth creating an account just to play with others! Any other possible tips? Like trying to master the new mechanics first? I feel that I'm still not ready to fight against real human players. Don't really know honestly.

Won't know until you try! CPUs don't give you the experience you can truly get like fighting a human. Simply because a CPU can't punish you/follow up with combos like a human can. & I haven't had much lag problems tbh, at least not a serious one that ruined a game for me. I'm fortunate to have a group of friends who are also learning to play competitively so we play a lot together. Like I said, gotta play humans to learn how to follow up better & grow. Also, reading guides that the site have to offer would help too. Look for a Mario or Sonic guide here.

 

[Kulty]

Won't know until you try! CPUs don't give you the experience you can truly get like fighting a human. Simply because a CPU can't punish you/follow up with combos like a human can. & I haven't had much lag problems tbh, at least not a serious one that ruined a game for me. I'm fortunate to have a group of friends who are also learning to play competitively so we play a lot together. Like I said, gotta play humans to learn how to follow up better & grow. Also, reading guides that the site have to offer would help too. Look for a Mario or Sonic guide here.

Well, when I played online recently, I used to have so much lag that it doesn't end. I really want to be good, but it's just that my Internet is absolute crap in my house. So I can't really attend online tournaments and stuffs. Still not sure! Sorry again but thanks a lot. If I have the time, will definitely check it out. Also, once you create an account on this website, are you allowed to delete it afterwards or is it permanent?

 

[Tenretsujin10]

-Practicing combos
-Learn to DI effectively to live longer/avoid combos
-Adjust to how your opponent DI's your combos
-Learn to space when hitting your opponent's shield so you don't get shield grabbed
-Learn advanced techs (pivot grabs, ledge trumps, b reverse, reverse air rush, etc.) to cover more options
-Mix up approaches, defensive options, and recovering.

just a couple ways to improve. watching top level play definitely helps.

 

[Kulty]

-Practicing combos
-Learn to DI effectively to live longer/avoid combos
-Adjust to how your opponent DI's your combos
-Learn to space when hitting your opponent's shield so you don't get shield grabbed
-Learn advanced techs (pivot grabs, ledge trumps, b reverse, reverse air rush, etc.) to cover more options
-Mix up approaches, defensive options, and recovering.

just a couple ways to improve. watching top level play definitely helps.

When I study gameplay videos about my competitive mains, what should I take notes on aside of matchups?

 

[Kulty]

Well, when I played online recently, I used to have so much lag that it doesn't end. I really want to be good, but it's just that my Internet is absolute crap in my house. So I can't really attend online tournaments and stuffs. Still not sure! Sorry again but thanks a lot. If I have the time, will definitely check it out. Also, once you create an account on this website, are you allowed to delete it afterwards or is it permanent?

Also, I forgot to mention that I plan to play friendlies most of the time. Should I look for people who has the same mains as I do first to learn some new things that I may not know about my mains? Or should I look for different people for matchups experience? Anyway, thanks! Will try to give this site a shot if I can.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

When I study gameplay videos about my competitive mains, what should I take notes on aside of matchups?

You should primarily study which options you competitive main chooses in the neutral game (where both characters have even stage-footing), what they can use to punish your opponents mistakes/reward your reads, and so on. Maybe see what advanced techs your character can specifically do, so you can cover different options.

Also, I forgot to mention that I plan to play friendlies most of the time. Should I look for people who has the same mains as I do first to learn some new things that I may not know about my mains? Or should I look for different people for matchups experience? Anyway, thanks! Will try to give this site a shot if I can.

You should look towards tournament sets on youtube and information on smashboards for information regarding your mains. Look for different people for matchup experience. This isn't really as intense as a tournament match, but you can always money match your friends in a set for small money (like a Quarter) to keep up the pressure.

 

[Illuminose]

When I study gameplay videos about my competitive mains, what should I take notes on aside of matchups?

Take notes on literally everything. How do they move? How do they combo? How do they pick options in different scenarios? How do they set up kills? How do they edgeguarding? How do they land? How do they approach (if a character that wants to approach)? How do they zone (if a character that has effective zoning tools)?

 

[sKam11]

I consider my self pretty good at ssb4. I play a lot and can beat every level of cpu. But my FG win rate is trash, a little bit below 40%. Today I played and I got beat by spammers and people who have no skill. I felt like breaking my TV and almost yelled, which is weird cause I'm a pretty chill person. I know that FG is bs but it kills my confidence. I really want to go to tournaments but I think I'll just fail. Can anyone here help me regain my confidence or at least give me some tips on how to improve/win? Or do I just suck?

 

[outfoxd]

You don't suck. Just go to tournaments, don't care about placing, play lots of friendlies with everyone before, after, and during brackets, and ask questions.

In friendlies and FG, winning should take a backseat to learning and trying new stuff.

 

[Swampertrulz]

Like @ outfoxd has already said, try doing tournaments and lay off FG for now.

 

[Untamed]

I made the mistake of going on FG shortly after I got the game, and my record went to ****. That being said, I don't really care if I win or lose, or what my win % is, and either should you. If you just play without worrying about your record, you won't get as angry when you lose.

Also, FG really isn't something you should base your skill level on. There is so many factors that make it not a creditable source.
I suggest you check out Anther's ladder. While it's still online play, you can find people that live near you, for optimal connection. The first game I played, I could tell the difference in connection and skill level. However, if you do not believe you're on a competitive skill level, I suggest practicing more with friends, or going to local tourney's first. You can also participate in online tournaments, that you can find right here on smash boards.

Finally, feel free to add me. We can play a bunch to practice on one another. My NNID is right under my name.

Best of luck!

 

[Gibbs]

I have trouble keeping the consistency of my game play. I can be in the zone and get all of my up air to up b strings correctly with but then get ANNIHILATED by my opponent (0- deaths). Tips for keeping consistency with my gameplay?

Practice with a partner. Try and record your sets to find mistakes. Actively try to not repeat mistakes. Get as much game knowledge as you can by spending time in the lab and stalking the more technical sides of smashboards. Then try to apply the new game knowledge to your practice and lab time. Get more match experience in tourney or on Anthers.

Rinse. Repeat.

 

[BlackAura111]

I've been struggling in For Glory 1-on-1 on Super Smash Bros 3DS/Wii U and every time I lose, I get frustrated very easily then I question if I'm weak or not. I know how to dodge attacks, Shield Grab, and I can read my opponent's vulnerabilities half of the time but they backfire because they know these strategies too. Another problem is that I can't tell if it's their character or if it's the player in general. The reason I don't have a main character in these two games is because I've been struggling. Sure that I won over 300 games in the past but that's no excuse! I want to get better at this game but I feel hopeless since I don't have a main character. If you could give me some advice on how to get better at this game, finding a main character, tips, etc. I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

Pick someone and stick with it through thick and thin. Its a huge detriment to yourself to keep switching. While it is important to understand the basis of other characters and get a feel for their playstyle, you must focus on one character. Every time you switch, its square one. When you have a main character, you can comfortably develop more advanced strategies with that character.

I'd also say that For Glory is awful way to judge skill. The delay on all input is so signficiant it feels like you aren't yourself when play. You can keep playing and get used to it, but if you're frustrated and mad the entire time you most like won't have fun getting to that point.

Edit:
Lemme rewind a bit, a number of newer players often jump into focusing on advanced techniques when they start competitive. If you don't even have a main there are a lot of fundamentals you need to look at. Besides spacing and comfort with operating your character, there is another basis I think most players overlook. I've written about it before, so I'll let my quote do the talking.

One of the most important things within smash 4 competitive I feel like is a sort of rock paper scissors mindset. In previous games there was so many more advanced techniques and movement options that you could dedicate a lot of time to those in order to improve your play and outskill the other player. This game has a way more focused meta that can be played strictly in terms of the trading nature of attack grab shield (which is what I mean by rock paper scissors). If you spend more time understand these trades and seeing consistencies in your opponents play, you can begin overcoming them but using the winning option.
If they're aggressive a lot and never grab (scissors), shield their attacks (rock) and utilize your out of shield options (you can up b, grab, crouch poke, etc) . If they're grabbing a lot (paper), bait their grabs (with a dash dance or spacing) and punish with hard hitting moves (your scissors, which could be a charged smash, b neutral, etc).
I'm being specific, but I cannot stress how overlooked this simple idealization is with modern players.

 

[BlackAura111]

Pick someone and stick with it through thick and thin. Its a huge detriment to yourself to keep switching. While it is important to understand the basis of other characters and get a feel for their playstyle, you must focus on one character. Every time you switch, its square one. When you have a main character, you can comfortably develop more advanced strategies with that character.

I'd also say that For Glory is awful way to judge skill. The delay on all input is so signficiant it feels like you aren't yourself when play. You can keep playing and get used to it, but if you're frustrated and mad the entire time you most like won't have fun getting to that point.

You know? I did have thoughts about leaving For Glory for as long as I remembered. But who else is there to play against besides CPU's! I like playing with other people, as long as they're not jerks or sore winners in general. Can you at least tell me a safer way to get better at the game and play against other great players at the same time?

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

You know? I did have thoughts about leaving For Glory for as long as I remembered. But who else is there to play against besides CPU's! I like playing with other people, as long as they're not jerks or sore winners in general. Can you at least tell me a safer way to get better at the game and play against other great players at the same time?

Do your best to find players in your community to play with. Play with friends who want to take the game seriously too. Go to tournaments and compete, who cares if you do bad? Its all practice and you can play a number of friendlies with people who are interested in the game in the same way you are.
If you're too young, which is a reasonable possibility, there are options to play sm4sh online in a constructive way.

For Glory has a tendency to match you up with some people that are awfully far away (relative to an online game). Finding people who will add and play with you that are close is much preferable. Then you can discuss each others mistakes and have a much more reasonable connection. You're working to develop a constructive, fun atmosphere that isn't just laggy, faceless taunting and sandbagging. smashladder is a good way to find sparring partners that are close to you and actively willing to play.

 

[KnightofPizza]

You know? I did have thoughts about leaving For Glory for as long as I remembered. But who else is there to play against besides CPU's! I like playing with other people, as long as they're not jerks or sore winners in general. Can you at least tell me a safer way to get better at the game and play against other great players at the same time?

Well, in the Online section of the forums, there's an entire thread full of people asking to play each other, so there's a good place to start. As for your main, try to go through the roster of characters and find a character that you enjoy playing as and fits your play style. You could then practice in Training mode and find combos for that character. If it doesn't work out, you should be fine, there still 54 other characters to go through.

 

[ScAtt77]

How do you guys punish cross-ups, especially with characters that have nearly no lag on their aerials and/or amazing aerial mobility (looking at Mario, Sheik, and Fox)? I feel as if holding shield is just giving the free pressure so I'd rather avoid doing that if possible. The only answers that I've found so far are to either respect them, or to preemptively turn around and shield to try to punish, which is relatively risky.

 

[éLógico]

Could someone explain me why the current stage and character counterpicking system is the way it is and how is it fair?

I'm very sure that a lot of thought was put into it and it must work at very least well if people are so used to it nowadays; I really don't disagree with the way counterpicks work.
Still, I need some facts and good arguments so I can figure out what is what and clarify things in this local smash group of my town. Their knowledge and perception is crooked enough to think it's a good idea to change the rules and give the loser the power to pick whatever stage he/she wants with no bans and having the winner locked on the character he/she won with during the next match.

I need your help.

 

[Xermo]

I win as little mac.
I'm now character locked and my opponent is free to take me to my worst stage and absolutely body me without any challenge.
I proceed to do the exact same thing to him as he's now locked and can't ban.
Last game is decided by who lost first if dave's stupid rule is not in effect as they'll run back to the stage I just lost on.

 

[DurtyD]

Would anyone be willing to help me out on improving as a smash player, ive been playing for about 8 months now and I recently found a competitive scene in my city, I did get 3rd place in the loser bracket but non the less I feel like I am not able to improve no matter how many videos replays or how many times I lose i'd I just like a very well experienced player to maybe help me improve. I do know the smash terms like nairs fars bairs and di all that but I just want to becomea better player with some one on one help

 

[shyguyver2]

Is there any place on smashboards you can go if you want to message people to play against you? And if you are interested, message me please. I got a 3DS

 

[éLógico]

I win as little mac.
I'm now character locked and my opponent is free to take me to my worst stage and absolutely body me without any challenge.
I proceed to do the exact same thing to him as he's now locked and can't ban.
Last game is decided by who lost first if dave's stupid rule is not in effect as they'll run back to the stage I just lost on.

Considering we have two players, P1 and P2 and they are playing in a tournament with rules like this (with a single set of a best of 5) and P1 won the first match it would go like this:

Game 1: P1 Wins
Game 2: P2 Wins (because he could dictate pretty much how this match would play out and boosted his chances tremendously)
Game 3: P1 Wins (because the rules are stupid and make the victories go back and forth between players)
Game 4: P2 Wins
Game 5: P1 Wins

So these rules would actually give the match point to the winner of the first game. Yes, it's not functional and makes competition less competitive, since it doesn't reward the slightly better players. Beats the point of improvement. What I want to know is how and why the counterpick system we actually use works. Like, how is it fair to give the winner the possibility of banning the one stage the loser needed to play on for a better shot at winning and all that.

 

[Jaxas]

@ éLógico @ Xermo

Hang on, I think you have something confused here. There's no character lock after games...

The way it works is:

Game 1
- Players select Characters (Double Blind)
- Players strike to 1st Stage
- Play Game 1

Games 2 and on
- Winner of last game Bans X stages (where X depends on the ruleset)
- Loser of the last game Selects the next Stage
- Winner of last game locks in character (can switch, but they have to 'confirm' their character first)
- Loser of last game locks in character
(- Winner of last game locks in their Customs
- Loser of last game locks in their Customs)


Anyways yes there is an advantage given to whoever lost for the next game (and subsequently whoever wins game 1 is more likely to win the set overall), there's no denying that. The purpose of the system is to reduce said advantage as much as possible, but since someone has to have an advantage (unless everyone double-blinds every time which has its own problems) it's better to give it to the loser each time because that way if someone wins game 2 then it was on their opponent's 'terms', but if not they get the same advantage their opponent got last game.

 

[Xermo]

@ éLógico @ Xermo

Hang on, I think you have something confused here. There's no character lock after games...

I was responding to his projected scenario in which winner is character locked and gets no bans.

 

[Jaxas]

I was responding to his projected scenario in which winner is character locked and gets no bans.

Ahh, whoops I missed that; makes a lot more sense now.

Nevermind, ignore

 

[TheAnomaly]

Could someone explain me why the current stage and character counterpicking system is the way it is and how is it fair?

I'm very sure that a lot of thought was put into it and it must work at very least well if people are so used to it nowadays; I really don't disagree with the way counterpicks work.
Still, I need some facts and good arguments so I can figure out what is what and clarify things in this local smash group of my town. Their knowledge and perception is crooked enough to think it's a good idea to change the rules and give the loser the power to pick whatever stage he/she wants with no bans and having the winner locked on the character he/she won with during the next match.

I need your help.

The idea is to give the loser an advantage in the next game but not so much an advantage that overwhelms a huge skill difference. The reality is that some stages make certain matchups for certain characters absolutely unplayable and this is bad for the gameplay as it might make the match dependant on who wins the first match.

However the current ruleset favours people who play multiple characters well because characters are decided after the stage is picked.

 

[BlackAura111]

I found some characters I'm interested in using as my main but they all suck whenever play online against anyone. I'm leaning towards either Lucario, Yoshi, Rosalina, Zelda, Palutena, Marth, and Link. The problem is I'm still slowly developing into the worst player of all time and I don't know who to pick. I have 341 wins but I lost 303 games (including 9 of the last 10!)! It really humiliates me! Why does every character I use suck compared to their character?! What should I do other than practice?

 

[outfoxd]

I found some characters I'm interested in using as my main but they all suck whenever play online against anyone. I'm leaning towards either Lucario, Yoshi, Rosalina, Zelda, Palutena, Marth, and Link. The problem is I'm still slowly developing into the worst player of all time and I don't know who to pick. I have 341 wins but I lost 303 games (including 9 of the last 10!)! It really humiliates me! Why does every character I use suck compared to their character?! What should I do other than practice?

Save replays of losses. Watch what happened, and why what you did have negative consequences, then work from there to recognize these situations and choose better options. Also, watch other players, note what they do in the same situation.

Try to focus in on one or two characters, really work hard on one. And you don't suck. You're in development.