Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[SwoodGrommet]

Hey everyone! Posting here to ask for help. Smash 4 is the first Smash game I've played, and I've been playing since release. Although, I recently picked up a new character, so that may be part of my problem. I'm at this stage where I can do well fighting good players, but I can't win against them. It's totally annoying, and pretty disheartening. I train exclusively on Smashladder, but I don't seem to be improving at all.

My win rate is atrocious (can be seen from going to character specific stats and then comparing wins to losses), it's something ridiculous like 90 wins to 143 losses. (That's actually from memory, so I hope I'm getting it correct, haha!)

I'm really looking forward to the update that allows us to upload our replays to youtube via our Wii. It'll be much easier to ask for advice and improve. Is anyone else in the same place as me? I play great players each day, but I'm not improving. It's actually pretty damn upsetting when I think about the time I've sunk into the game, but still not winning.

Advice/anecdotes/opinions are all welcome!

 

[Eonn]

How can I punish dash attacks from characters like Yoshi and Fox? They fly past me when shielded and have a ton of active frames.

How do I punish players who roll behind (NOT on top of) me on reaction, when I'm committed to a dash or jump?

What's the best way to tech Ganondorf's side special?

 

[Cypher99]

how long should I have to spend each day on this game to win local tornaments

 

[Scarlet Jile]

That depends on the following:

- How good is your region
- How quickly do you learn
- How well do you retain information
- What are you doing to practice
- How naturally talented are you at fighting games

 

[deepseadiva]

You know how on late night TV they have those commercials like "in just TEN MINUTES A DAY get SIX PACK ABS!!" Mostly nothing in the universe works like that.

 

[ZetaRokure]

Lucario, my main, possesses an Up Smash that I consider to be an astonishingly brilliant Out of Shield option, and jump canceling it will solely serve to augment this brilliance. However, I do have tap jump enabled, and I was confused as to whether or not jump canceling w/ tap jump is possible or even necessary.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Lucario, my main, possesses an Up Smash that I consider to be an astonishingly brilliant Out of Shield option, and jump canceling it will solely serve to augment this brilliance. However, I do have tap jump enabled, and I was confused as to whether or not jump canceling w/ tap jump is possible or even necessary.

Jump Cancelling is actually just a exploit: The game gives you a frame window after you press Up where you initiate a jump, and if you press A during it, it will be registered as a whole Upsmash input. This serves to cancel any jump into an Usmash, and given you can jump at any time during your shielding, is one of the fastest-to-initiate options you have available.

So, if you have Tap Jump on you do not need to JC, just pressing Up+Attack will do.
Another trick is that while shielding with a GameCube Controller actually just hitting Up in the C-stick will get the Usmash, same with a Classic Controller or a Pro Controller, both with the right stick.

 

[ZetaRokure]

Jump Cancelling is actually just a exploit: The game gives you a frame window after you press Up where you initiate a jump, and if you press A during it, it will be registered as a whole Upsmash input. This serves to cancel any jump into an Usmash, and given you can jump at any time during your shielding, is one of the fastest-to-initiate options you have available.

So, if you have Tap Jump on you do not need to JC, just pressing Up+Attack will do.
Another trick is that while shielding with a GameCube Controller actually just hitting Up in the C-stick will get the Usmash, same with a Classic Controller or a Pro Controller, both with the right stick.

Thank you!

 

[Joeyd123]

I am trying to find a character who will help me improve all-around. I have had success with some characters such as Luigi and Sonic. However, I don't see myself getting any better using them. I more just see myself spamming grab with Luigi and spin dash with Sonic.

I guess I'm trying to find the characters who will help me learn the mechanics of smash better. Such as reading and punishing airdodges, making reads, and baiting my opponent.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[A_Kae]

Marth.

I'm not biased here. I actually have a reason for saying this.

Marth is a character that can't spam at all. There's nothing that's 'jank' with him. You've got to know what to do, and when. He's a character purely of the fundamentals of smash (and other fighting games, for that matter).

Essentially, Marth has to play the game. And playing him for a while is a good way of learning how.

I got a lot better when I started using Marth so many years ago, and I've had success at helping other people get better by teaching them Marth.

 

[Joeyd123]

Marth.

I'm not biased here. I actually have a reason for saying this.

Marth is a character that can't spam at all. There's nothing that's 'jank' with him. You've got to know what to do, and when. He's a character purely of the fundamentals of smash (and other fighting games, for that matter).

Essentially, Marth has to play the game. And playing him for a while is a good way of learning how.

I got a lot better when I started using Marth so many years ago, and I've had success at helping other people get better by teaching them Marth.

This actually kinda makes sense. Might actually look into him. Thanks man appreciate it

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit for much the same reasons as Marth. And Pit's actually a pretty good character so there's that.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

How can I remove execution errors from my game? More often then not, I find myself performing inputs incorrectly and I fear that when I need to execute it perfectly, I will mess up. I know you guys are probably going to say "Practice in-game situations, hit the lab,etc) but what can you do mechanically to reduce input errors? Setting C-stick to Attack seems more helpful, but for SH aerials what do you do? I've tried double sticking, but I feel like it's harder to perfect pivot land and my overall speed is slower. I've set shoulder buttons to jump, but that hurts my hands. Right now, I've set B to Jump and with this I never mess up my SH autocanceled d-airs.

 

[A_Kae]

How can I remove execution errors from my game? More often then not, I find myself performing inputs incorrectly and I fear that when I need to execute it perfectly, I will mess up. I know you guys are probably going to say "Practice in-game situations, hit the lab,etc) but what can you do mechanically to reduce input errors? Setting C-stick to Attack seems more helpful, but for SH aerials what do you do? I've tried double sticking, but I feel like it's harder to perfect pivot land and my overall speed is slower. I've set shoulder buttons to jump, but that hurts my hands. Right now, I've set B to Jump and with this I never mess up my SH autocanceled d-airs.

Have you tried setting Z as your jump?

I find that having Jump on a separate finger than my right stick makes SH aerials much easier. If using the GCC shoulder buttons doesn't work for you, try Z.

If that doesn't work for you for whatever reason, you've just got to practice this stuff a lot to get faster.

And we say that because it's true. You've got to practice this stuff, and it's got to be in real situations as well.

 

[busken]

What is the most consistent way to boost grab? In this video he uses X and A to grab. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWnw81DYTkk

 

[Baby_Sneak]

How can I remove execution errors from my game? More often then not, I find myself performing inputs incorrectly and I fear that when I need to execute it perfectly, I will mess up. I know you guys are probably going to say "Practice in-game situations, hit the lab,etc) but what can you do mechanically to reduce input errors? Setting C-stick to Attack seems more helpful, but for SH aerials what do you do? I've tried double sticking, but I feel like it's harder to perfect pivot land and my overall speed is slower. I've set shoulder buttons to jump, but that hurts my hands. Right now, I've set B to Jump and with this I never mess up my SH autocanceled d-airs.

Practicing against a lvl 3 CPU for a stress less environment works wonders and is a excellent way to warm up fingers.

Hey everyone! Posting here to ask for help. Smash 4 is the first Smash game I've played, and I've been playing since release. Although, I recently picked up a new character, so that may be part of my problem. I'm at this stage where I can do well fighting good players, but I can't win against them. It's totally annoying, and pretty disheartening. I train exclusively on Smashladder, but I don't seem to be improving at all.

My win rate is atrocious (can be seen from going to character specific stats and then comparing wins to losses), it's something ridiculous like 90 wins to 143 losses. (That's actually from memory, so I hope I'm getting it correct, haha!)

I'm really looking forward to the update that allows us to upload our replays to youtube via our Wii. It'll be much easier to ask for advice and improve. Is anyone else in the same place as me? I play great players each day, but I'm not improving. It's actually pretty damn upsetting when I think about the time I've sunk into the game, but still not winning.

Advice/anecdotes/opinions are all welcome!

Easy fix
Go here (fighting game fundamentals brah. Take your time with each lesson and slowly incorporate them into your game).

 

[TheGogiCarter]

Hey guys, creating this thread just asking a question.
I'm having my first "big" real tournament on September. How can I train better?, any advice?, pressure etc
I will really glad, if you can help me a little

 

[Shaya]

Hey guys, creating this thread just asking a question.
I'm having my first "big" real tournament on September. How can I train better?, any advice?, pressure etc
I will really glad, if you can help me a little

Experience is everything, and you should be looking at going to local sized tournaments to get some of the vital things needed to help your dynamics.
I'd make sure you're training regularly and focusing on 'essential' things you feel are needed to win, and ensuring you're EXTREMELY COMFORTABLE with performing those things. You want to be confident, and confidence comes through knowledge on both what you're up against and yourself.

Remember that the more you're having fun the better it'll be for you and the likelihood of getting better faster will be high too (losing can be a positive catalyst, and is the most common catalyst to reinvigorate top players into practice/preparation).

 

[ShadowKing]

So is there a way I can extend my rolls into combos?

 

[HFlash]

Sorry if this isn't the right thread or it has already been asked, but is there a resource to look up how the Japanese competitive smash 4 scene is progressing? Like updates on recent results, videos etc. This is kind of important, as the Smash development team balances the patches based on that scene apparently.

 

[Chiramijumaru]

The first (and last) tourney I went to was a local tourney for Melee and Brawl (in 2013) and I placed 5 in Melee singles and 7ish in Brawl Singles (don't remember that one exactly). I consider myself high casual (i.e. never wavedashed/DACUSed/etc. but play almost every day) and I want to get competitive again. I main (/ backup and / pocket) and play serious FG (leave bad players, stick with good ones), but I'm afraid it isn't enough. I stick to old habits (tap jump, ignore Cstick except for tilts) and can't reliably shorthop. Are there any execution/general gameplay tips that could help? I really want to get better at every Smash (except 64 and Brawl and including PM), but especially 4.

 

[Raijinken]

Generally people say the best way to improve is to find a player better than you who is also a good teacher, and play against them a lot. An easy place to find decent players is at tournaments, but there's nowhere near a guarantee they're willing to (or good at) train you.

You may want to check SmashLadder for some more versatile options in your online play (which, needless to say, is not the ideal place to learn anyway). I know there at least used to be some players on here who are willing to match you online for practice, too.

As far as your technique and whatnot, tap jump is entirely preference, C-stick is mostly preference (but useful for aerials), and you SHOULD learn to short-hop (I find it a lot easier without tap jump). Past that, branch out and play some stages that aren't FD, and then get goin'.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

yeah like above most stuff like tap jump, c-stick (though helpful), and shorthop (though in competitive play EXTREMELY useful i dont fine it to be a necessity) is for the most part preference.

as for getting better really its all just playing alot and actually thinking while playing example rosaluma vs diddy (we are diddy in this example). rosa misses the ledge with up b you have options we can run in with a dash attack which could be okay but probably not the best punish, we can side b to grab and hit or kick which isnt that bad either, or we can run at her and grab her pummel a couple times to down throw back air which probably would be best depending on percentage and where shes landing but hopefully you get the point. just constantly trying to read your opponent while at the same time weighing all your options while at the same time not trying to become predictable

and the only advise i really have from your characters points is street fighter inputs are very nice but remember that they can mess you up too if you dont be careful (i was playin my friend yesterday and tried to fair him for the edge guard and somehow accidentally input the street fighter input and flew off stage to my death giving him the game XD )

ps dont say every smash if your excluding over half i mean you can do what you want it just sounds funny (64,brawl and pm compared to just melee and 4 and yes pm might as well be its own at this point )

 

[iVoltage]

I'm sort of half there, I know OF all of these concepts and combos and options but I have trouble implementing them into my game at all. I dunno Its probs due to lack of experience because i don't actually own smash 4 wii u and my 3ds broke. I try to work on it when I can but Its very hard to get these things in your head in the middle of a match.

 

[Rashyboy05]

I'm pretty sure ZeRo uses Tap Jump and C-Stick for tilts. Anyway the best you could do is learn the fundamentals, master Short hops and play on stages not named Final Destination. You could go for more complex ones like Perfect Pivoting and Wavebouncing but it's not exactly necessary unless you're a pro to implement them in your game plan perfectly.

 

[smokebomb12]

When you are winning, How do you not get cocky and let your guard down.

And when getting comboed or losing, how do you respond?

 

[SpideySheep27]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here we go:

So, I'm trying to get into competitive Sm4sh, and there are 2 things I need help with:
1: I struggle to do all the techs and inputs, such as B-Reverse, Perfect Pivot, Wavebouncing (I don't even really know what Wavebouncing is
2: I main Ness, and I am looking to find 2 or 3 Secondaries. I tend to like characters that have a good combo game, and aren't slow. Good aerial game is also appreciated. They do not have to be high tier, they just can't be hard to learn.

Help!

P.S. I'm going to a local tourney tomorrow, and I'll be playing Ness, so the 1st thing is my priority right now, and just in general.

 

[A_Kae]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here we go:

So, I'm trying to get into competitive Sm4sh, and there are 2 things I need help with:
1: I struggle to do all the techs and inputs, such as B-Reverse, Perfect Pivot, Wavebouncing (I don't even really know what Wavebouncing is
2: I main Ness, and I am looking to find 2 or 3 Secondaries. I tend to like characters that have a good combo game, and aren't slow. Good aerial game is also appreciated. They do not have to be high tier, they just can't be hard to learn.

Help!

P.S. I'm going to a local tourney tomorrow, and I'll be playing Ness, so the 1st thing is my priority right now, and just in general.

1) Don't focus on ATs right now. They're called advanced for a reason, and they shouldn't ever form the foundation of your gameplan. They don't make a character, or a player. You shouldn't try to learn this stuff before you've mastered the basics. That's what causes people to reach a 'plateau' and not get better. Too much focus on ATs instead of smart play, which is what actually wins matches. Once you've mastered the basics of smash and your character of choice, then you should look at advanced techs.

Focus on proper spacing, patience, and safety. Not advanced tech. Not now, at least. That comes later.

To actually answer the question, it's all a matter of practice. Training yourself to have quicker, more precise fingers.

As for what a wavebounce is: http://smashboards.com/threads/turnaround-bs-b-reverses-and-wavebounces-know-the-difference.368536/

2) Sheik is the best secondary that fits your requirements. Mario, C. Falcon, ZSS, Meta Knight all come to mind as well. Mario is probably the easiest of them to learn.

 

[ArikadoSD]

So a question that's been on my mind for a while now that I never asked.. what do sponsors get from sponsoring players?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here we go:

So, I'm trying to get into competitive Sm4sh, and there are 2 things I need help with:
1: I struggle to do all the techs and inputs, such as B-Reverse, Perfect Pivot, Wavebouncing (I don't even really know what Wavebouncing is
2: I main Ness, and I am looking to find 2 or 3 Secondaries. I tend to like characters that have a good combo game, and aren't slow. Good aerial game is also appreciated. They do not have to be high tier, they just can't be hard to learn.

Help!

P.S. I'm going to a local tourney tomorrow, and I'll be playing Ness, so the 1st thing is my priority right now, and just in general.

Regarding AT's, don't focus on them, but do practice them. They help you getting more familiar with your controller and your character.
Don't worry about using them early on in actual matches, they will simply click with you after a while as long as you train them a little bit regularly.

 

[Shaya]

So a question that's been on my mind for a while now that I never asked.. what do sponsors get from sponsoring players?

It's probably a bit more of a long term investment in their eyes.
Social media "circuits" are all the rage and the subtle brain washing of young masses for the years prior to them becoming independent consumers is common marketing strategy (famously tobacco companies doing just that prior to the 90s).

So yeah, not even Microsoft, Sony or Capcom get much out of sponsoring things, people buying their games and consoles were likely going to anyway. The difference is that the correlation of those companies to "cool" and "hip" by their targeted demographics is what they care for, because their positive thoughts towards them market themselves through social media and garner long term interest and support.

Personally, I think it would be cool for global conglomerates who are so geared towards "throwing away mild amounts of profit as possible future investments" put that money into more humanitarian things [or willingly paid more taxes rather than offshoring **** to Ireland or elsewhere].

Small businesses/groups sponsoring players can be a mixture of good will or high-flung ambition.

 

[DJTengen]

Hey everyone! I got a quick question. For those of you that play Smash 4 competitively, what do you normally do to practice? Do you just play against friends and other people or is there more to it to your practicing?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Hey everyone! I got a quick question. For those of you that play Smash 4 competitively, what do you normally do to practice? Do you just play against friends and other people or is there more to it to your practicing?

For actual practicing, yes that's mostly what I do. I would also play against CPUs and go to training almost daily to practice techs and combos for my main/a few pockets so that they don't get rusty. If good internet is provided I'd also play online. I'd also try to see if I have any habits and try to break them or remind myself to mix things up.

Other than that I watch pro players play and take mental notes.

 

[Daxter]

I.

NEVER.

WIN.

I am now willing to PAY someone to make me better at Smash 4, and as a consequence, at video games in general. I've been playing since launch, and I still get my backside handed to me, despite having tried to play as THE ENTIRE ROSTER, watching tournies, saving replays of losses, reading guides, practicing on Anther's and FG alike and more besides. Nothing works. I was voted the world's worst player on a different forum, because I just never learn. I try to, but I just can't learn from my mistakes. I have a reputation on both Anther's and For Glory in the UK, for being an easy win as soon as people see me. The problem is not so bad in Project M, because I know there's a lot to learn, and I've been slowly developing there, but Smash 4 is MUCH more basic. I should've mastered it by now, I've had months and months to do so!

So how about it? I want to have a talent for once in my life, but it seems I'll need to "pay-to-win" as it were. Please don't say "It's only a game" and "Play to have fun." I'm an anxious person and a perfectionist - winning is the only way I can have fun in any game, unless there's a funny side to it (e.g. Team Fortress 2 or Splatoon) Can anyone help please?

For the record, I can't upload replays. All I have is my phone, and it won't let me upload videos for no apparent reason. I also don't strictly have a main, besides Robin. Those icons to your left change almost every time I come here. Each time I think I've found a good character, a Little Mac comes along and crushes me/shares a replay of my humiliation.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I.

NEVER.

WIN.

I am now willing to PAY someone to make me better at Smash 4, and as a consequence, at video games in general. I've been playing since launch, and I still get my backside handed to me, despite having tried to play as THE ENTIRE ROSTER, watching tournies, saving replays of losses, reading guides, practicing on Anther's and FG alike and more besides. Nothing works. I was voted the world's worst player on a different forum, because I just never learn. I try to, but I just can't learn from my mistakes. I have a reputation on both Anther's and For Glory in the UK, for being an easy win as soon as people see me. The problem is not so bad in Project M, because I know there's a lot to learn, and I've been slowly developing there, but Smash 4 is MUCH more basic. I should've mastered it by now, I've had months and months to do so!

So how about it? I want to have a talent for once in my life, but it seems I'll need to "pay-to-win" as it were. Please don't say "It's only a game" and "Play to have fun." I'm an anxious person and a perfectionist - winning is the only way I can have fun in any game, unless there's a funny side to it (e.g. Team Fortress 2 or Splatoon) Can anyone help please?

For the record, I can't upload replays. All I have is my phone, and it won't let me upload videos for no apparent reason. I also don't strictly have a main, besides Robin. Those icons to your left change almost every time I come here. Each time I think I've found a good character, a Little Mac comes along and crushes me/shares a replay of my humiliation.

Sticking with a main is probably a good start. find a character that's good and one that you like as starters, and then try from there.

 

[skydogc]

So I've got a question (in a QA thread of all places! who would've guessed!?), albeit one I guess I've never fully sat down and considered asking others.
I'm wondering how much pressure you guys apply to your button/stick presses and controller overall, even in terms of grip?
Now this sounds kind of funny and probably fairly basic in a lot of ways, I know, but I have recently caught myself pressing down fairly hard in many of my movements and inputs. I realized fairly quickly that this interferes with my ability to instantly switch between tilts and smashes, which is, among other things, not good.
Just as an fyi: I play with default settings for a Gamecube controller except for tap-jump being off.

 

[ArikadoSD]

So I've got a question (in a QA thread of all places! who would've guessed!?), albeit one I guess I've never fully sat down and considered asking others.
I'm wondering how much pressure you guys apply to your button/stick presses and controller overall, even in terms of grip?
Now this sounds kind of funny and probably fairly basic in a lot of ways, I know, but I have recently caught myself pressing down fairly hard in many of my movements and inputs. I realized fairly quickly that this interferes with my ability to instantly switch between tilts and smashes, which is, among other things, not good.
Just as an fyi: I play with default settings for a Gamecube controller except for tap-jump being off.

I hold the controller tight enough to where I'm comfortable with holding it and I wouldn't randomly drop it, but not so tight that I would actually feel tired of just holding it after a while.

As for buttons, press them just hard enough so they could actually be pressed.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

Any advice on how to intercept fox's up B? When should I be hitting him? I find that in brawl it was different.

 

[A_Kae]

Any advice on how to intercept fox's up B? When should I be hitting him? I find that in brawl it was different.

Fire Fox starts hitting on F20, so just attack before then.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

Fire Fox starts hitting on F20, so just attack before then.

Any visual representation of when he's about to enter Frame 20?