Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[A_Kae]

Any visual representation of when he's about to enter Frame 20?

Not that I know of. It's just a timing thing.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

This is off topic I know, but where can watch all the matches that took place at EVO? I really want to see them and I can't find the ones i want to watch on YouTube. I want to see captawsome vs rain, all of nairos fights, all zeros, etc...

 

[I speak Spanish too]

Hello Guys. I've been playing Super Smash Bros. for Wii U since March. Since then, I've gained so much knowledge on the game. I know the elements in battle such as conditioning, mix-ups, baiting, adapting, zoning, spacing, edge guarding, etc. I also know how to apply them in battle and the mental effect it has on the player. I know so much to the point that I just right a bunch of pastebins on the topic so I can just read them over to myself. In fact, I can site random character frame data from my head and be pretty accurate with it. They said that research is very important in mastery and I've without doubt researched extensively on every aspect of the game.

However, the biggest problem I have right now is input competence. I know through practice I can accurately translate what's in my head to the game but when I start practicing I get easily discouraged. For example, I started to practice Ledge Trumping yesterday. My drill was to run to ledge and trump, walk to trump, standing near the ledge and trump, but I barely get it even though I have performed the technique. In real battles? Forget! I just do the turnaround animation and slide away from the ledge. I want to be the best, and mastering these fundamentals are crucial in doing this. If I can't do simple wavebounces, ledge trumps, and FH aerials well how can I move on to character specific stuff?

If anybody has some sort of training regiment I can do or some motivating feedback It would really help. I really want to be good at this game, and I refuse to put in so much time and not get the results that I desire. Also, please don't link me to a video on smash because I probably watched it already. Thanks in advance!

 

[Pazx]

This is off topic I know, but where can watch all the matches that took place at EVO? I really want to see them and I can't find the ones i want to watch on YouTube. I want to see captawsome vs rain, all of nairos fights, all zeros, etc...

If it's not here or on the evo channel it's likely that it wasn't recorded.

 

[Unique username]

Not sure if I should make a thread for this or just put it here but on a gc controller, should you use z to grab or L? Or always quickly input a shield grab? thanks.

 

[mario123007]

Not sure if I should make a thread for this or just put it here but on a gc controller, should you use z to grab or L? Or always quickly input a shield grab? thanks.

It depends in what kind of situation you are. It's always more better to dash grab by just pressing the grab button, But shield grab is also useful when your opponent approaches to attack you.

 

[Unique username]

It depends in what kind of situation you are. It's always more better to dash grab by just pressing the grab button, But shield grab is also useful when your opponent approaches to attack you.

But which button then? (Z or L)
The reason I ask this is for L I feel It takes longer than a click (with z) but z feels awkward since I use r to shield.

 

[ArikadoSD]

But which button then? (Z or L)
The reason I ask this is for L I feel It takes longer than a click (with z) but z feels awkward since I use r to shield.

Personal preference. I use X to grab mostly because it's really comfortable and easy to reach, and I had Z set to jump before setting it back to grab so I don't get /too/ confused when switching between Melee/PM and Sm4sh.

 

[mario123007]

But which button then? (Z or L)
The reason I ask this is for L I feel It takes longer than a click (with z) but z feels awkward since I use r to shield.

I mostly use for grab, but not often. I tend to shield grab the most by pressing, I have never usebutton ever in game.
On the 3DS version, I just use Y button for grab, X button for Jump. R button for shield.

 

[TheUnProfessionalist]

When I realized that I'm not doing well online, I started wondering how I get better. Can someone give me tips on how to get better with Mr. Game & Watch?

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Look at the GnW page, in the character discussions.
As a general tip, I'd say mindset is the most important thing to work on for better tournament results.

 

[leesinger]

When I realized that I'm not doing well online, I started wondering how I get better. Can someone give me tips on how to get better with Mr. Game & Watch?

Sometimes its not about being "better" with a charachter, but just overall working on improving your playstyle in the neutral game. Neutral game is literally everything or at least 90% of what you need to work on to perform at a high level in smash 4. Perfect shielding, going for safe options, knowing when to grab and when to shield. Basically what are known in smash as the fundamentals. Fundamentals win games, nothing else.

 

[Unique username]

All right thanks to both of you, never thought of using x or y, since I use x to jump I'll try y

 

[Daxter]

100 game loss streak. I still lose to everything from PK fire spam to Captain Falcon just using Up-Smash, despite having played since launch.

I am hopeless. But I just can't be a casual, I can't! Not after trying for so long. In further response to my last post (see above) PLEASE. HELP.

 

[ArikadoSD]

100 game loss streak. I still lose to everything from PK fire spam to Captain Falcon just using Up-Smash, despite having played since launch.

I am hopeless. But I just can't be a casual, I can't! Not after trying for so long. In further response to my last post (see above) PLEASE. HELP.

Are you using the entirety of your tools? Shield? Air dodge, spot dodge, roll? If you're losing to stuff like that then it's implying you don't.

I mean I really dunno what to say man but usually there is progress with fundamentals. Is this your first smash game?

 

[Royaxe]

:Backstory: you can skip this paragraph.
I have been playing smash "seriously" for about one or two years now, mostly PM but I do have some experience in Smash 64 and growing up with melee as my #1 game and all 3 of these games I have gotten pretty good, being able to have decent tech-skill and decision making. Brawl and Smash 4 are different though, brawl I had fun with but never picked it up seriously and I try to play Smash 4 and I do worse than most casual players. This is a big switch from being the best player of all my friends who also play pretty seriously.And so I get discouraged, and just quit until the next month that I try it again.

:Main Part:
As for my question. How do I smooth the transition from PM to Smash 4.
Alternatively, What would help me become better at Smash 4 given that I already have a smash background.
I've always found Smash 4 (and brawl) to be slow.
And smash 4 mechanics feel slightly delayed.
If there are any tips on how I should play differently from each game it would help.
If you know of any videos that would be good for me to watch about the subject, I'm all for it.

I main Marth in PM and Melee. even though I can do well with most characters in PM.
And the only character (that I have tried) that I can play properly is ZSS.
And i play with a Wii U Pro on Smash 4, and a GCC on all other smash games.

Anyways sorry for rambling but I though I would give some backstory as to help you understand.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

How can I motivate myself when I'm training? Sometimes I just get demotivated when I'm trying to master something and I end up not practicing it as much as I would like to. What would also help is how to practice something to be ready for in game application. For example, about a week ago I started to practice ledge trumping because it's a useful technique that I want to implement into my game. Ledge Trumping as many variations such as standing ledge trump, walk to trump, dashing into ledge trump, etc. Should I practice on a time or all together. Most importantly though, I want to make sure that when it comes down to an actual battle I'm able to do it effortlessly.

 

[Infobesity]

GnW isn't low tier. And don't blame the character, at least not yet. You're probably losing because your fundamentals haven't been developed. Once you're familiar with game mechanics you then know your best options, then the mind games come in and the thinking part of this game.

 

[Daxter]

Are you using the entirety of your tools? Shield? Air dodge, spot dodge, roll? If you're losing to stuff like that then it's implying you don't.

I mean I really dunno what to say man but usually there is progress with fundamentals. Is this your first smash game?

I certainly do my best to yes. I often find myself in situations where I think the followng things:

- But I was holding shield!
- But I spot-dodged!
- But I hit him, and his attack still counts?!
- Why can't I grab him when he misses HIS smash?
- When I try and mimic that, I never get away with it!

And so on. This is the first Smash game I've gotten heads on into. I also play PM, but for some reason, I find that game MUCH easier to handle. The techs give a gradual learning curve to the proceedings. Here in 4, it's either you're good, or you get teabagged.

 

[SirIanAsh]

Not sure if this is a frequently asked question around here, but how do I deal with super aggressive players? (Captain Falcon, ZSS, Falco, Luigi, Sonic. etc.)

I play Roy and these aggressive guys just keep racking up my percentage by using things like grabs to down throw to up air(s) or fair(s) if you are luigi, and they finish me off with a smash or spike or something. These guys make me quit the match immediately.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Not sure if this is a frequently asked question around here, but how do I deal with super aggressive players? (Captain Falcon, ZSS, Falco, Luigi, Sonic. etc.)

I play Roy and these aggressive guys just keep racking up my percentage by using things like grabs to down throw to up air(s) or fair(s) if you are luigi, and they finish me off with a smash or spike or something. These guys make me quit the match immediately.

Never quit a match against a player who is bodying you, the only way to learn is to see what you're doing wrong and and cut it out of your play.
Since I haven't seen a match here are some general anti-rushdown tips.

-keep moving, dont rely so much on shield
-use your spot dodge and punish the approach
-work on spacing, Roy has a good fast jab and tilts that can outspace many approaches also his fair and nair work well.

Also, make sure you aren't just throwing out hitboxes, there is a difference in spacing meaningfully and mindlessly throwing them out.

 

[Daxter]

Never quit a match against a player who is bodying you, the only way to learn is to see what you're doing wrong and and cut it out of your play.
Since I haven't seen a match here are some general anti-rushdown tips.

-keep moving, dont rely on shield so much on shield
-use your spot dodge and punish the approach
-work on spacing, Roy has a good fast jab and tilts that can outspace many approaches also his fair and nair work well.

Also, make sure you aren't just throwing out hitboxes, there is a difference in spacing meaningfully and mindlessly throwing them out.

I've been wondering about this; whenever I watch matches from tourneys, the moves thrown out seem to be random, and are never punished, even when they're charged smash attacks. When I try to do the same, say with some N-Air/F-Air, Fast Falls as Robin, I get punished left, right and centre. When someone does it to me, even if it's just, say, Toon Link's bombs all over the place, they always succeed. What exactly is good spacing? See if it can be narrowed down to characters like Robin, DK and Sonic; that would cover a good variety of characters. Thanks for any help you can offer!

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Honestly, Robin just has some not so good frame data.
You may be using the correct attacks to space with but that holds him back. Robin can get punished easier than others.

Spacing is all about knowing not only your own character's range, but your opponents range as well.
Then there are "safe" and "unsafe" attacks, safer attacks generally cover a large amount of space, are quick and have no landing lag/endlag or auto-cancel if done correctly.
This video breaks it down quite well.

 

[Sonic94]

Hello. I wish to improve my skill dramatically so I will be able to become one of the top players in my state.

The first thing I believe I may need to learn is shff. Right now I have difficulty short hoping consistantly.

Now for a few questions.
1 how useful is shff in smash 4
2 when should I use shff
3 for which characters is shff the most useful, and for which is it the least.

I use a GC controler abs I have recently changed my control sceme from the default to this.

Attack = A
Special = B
Grab = X
Sheild = Y
Tilts = c stick
Jump = shoulder buttons

Would this control system sufice?

Lastly, how many hours per week would I need to maintain this level of skill. And how often would it be appropriate to take breaks?

I don't really like sticking to one character but sheik is as close to a main as I have at the moment.

If you need any more information let me know in your reply.

 

[Unique username]

Hello. I wish to improve my skill dramatically so I will be able to become one of the top players in my state.

The first thing I believe I may need to learn is shff. Right now I have difficulty short hoping consistantly.

Now for a few questions.
1 how useful is shff in smash 4
2 when should I use shff
3 for which characters is shff the most useful, and for which is it the least.

I use a GC controler abs I have recently changed my control sceme from the default to this.

Attack = A
Special = B
Grab = X
Sheild = Y
Tilts = c stick
Jump = shoulder buttons

Would this control system sufice?

Lastly, how many hours per week would I need to maintain this level of skill. And how often would it be appropriate to take breaks?

I don't really like sticking to one character but sheik is as close to a main as I have at the moment.

If you need any more information let me know in your reply.

It's very difficult to short hop consistently with the shoulder buttons, you should set it to x or y

 

[Pixel_]

It's very difficult to short hop consistently with the joystick, you should set it to a button

Jump = shoulder buttons

 

[Unique username]

im a nub

 

[Funkermonster]

How do you reliably footstool somebody?

 

[SirIanAsh]

I never seem to be able to get much off my grabs wth Roy.

Like I barely get one hit after a down throw and the only thing that works for me most of the time is fthrow to dash attack which does some good damagae but I want to know how to properly combo someone from a grab with Roy.

Sorry for the typos, I'm on mobile

 

[ぱみゅ]

How do you reliably footstool somebody?

You read their patterns, and mash the jump button. Still not too reliable, but if the conditions/opportunities are met, I sometimes go for it.

 

[bound_for_earth]

I need help with a few things competetively since i am only just really trying to go fully competetive and enter tournaments and i want have a chance without some help. I am mainly self taught and have been playing smash games most of my life but i need some help now. I need to learn how to get better reads on my opponents and to give more effective punishments to mistakes made by my opponents. i also need to become less readabke can you please be kind enough to help me here? By the way i main,and good combos for them would help too thanks!

 

[Eonn]

I've asked this a few times to no avail, is there any way to consistently punish rolls after you are committed to a jump or dash, on reaction (I.e. The opponent only rolls when I dash or jump torwards them) and is there any way to do it safely? I'm always getting smashed and even losing stocks trying to overcommit to punish a roll. I'll dash and either get smacked away or hit them after their roll with a dash attack, or I'll short hop towards them and either get upsmashed or have an opportunity to punish.

When they roll behind me I just have no idea what to do. Even at local play. I get demolished by anybody who rolls a lot since all my attempts at baiting or punishing rolls get punished. It's infuriating. Thanks for any tips.

 

[mario123007]

I've asked thi a

A...?
Have you finish typing?

 

[Pixel_]

I've asked thi a

?

 

[Eonn]

A...?
Have you finish typing?

?

iOS crap, I was hitting letters on the keyboard and apparently the "post reply" button was hit from behind. I edited my post to fix it up.

 

[mario123007]

I've asked this a few times to no avail, is there any way to consistently punish rolls after you are committed to a jump or dash, on reaction (I.e. The opponent only rolls when I dash or jump torwards them) and is there any way to do it safely? I'm always getting smashed and even losing stocks trying to overcommit to punish a roll. I'll dash and either get smacked away or hit them after their roll with a dash attack, or I'll short hop towards them and either get upsmashed or have an opportunity to punish.

When they roll behind me I just have no idea what to do. Even at local play. I get demolished by anybody who rolls a lot since all my attempts at baiting or punishing rolls get punished. It's infuriating. Thanks for any tips.

Hm... I have nearly the same problem too. When roll behind you you can only either roll again, or just roll away. Roll dodge is really a very good way to get to you position when try to hit your opponent. But use it all the time can also result some flaws, like can dashgrabbed.

It's really depends on your reading skill, if you notice that they are rolling away, grab them. jump away when they roll behind you.

 

[Unique username]

I've asked this a few times to no avail, is there any way to consistently punish rolls after you are committed to a jump or dash, on reaction (I.e. The opponent only rolls when I dash or jump torwards them) and is there any way to do it safely? I'm always getting smashed and even losing stocks trying to overcommit to punish a roll. I'll dash and either get smacked away or hit them after their roll with a dash attack, or I'll short hop towards them and either get upsmashed or have an opportunity to punish.

When they roll behind me I just have no idea what to do. Even at local play. I get demolished by anybody who rolls a lot since all my attempts at baiting or punishing rolls get punished. It's infuriating. Thanks for any tips.

Down smashes work well with a lot of characters to punish rolls, spot dodging also helps when they roll behind you

 

[Sonic94]

It's very difficult to short hop consistently with the shoulder buttons, you should set it to x or y

Why? The springs allow you to tap lightly and doesn't interfere with the other buttons allowing you to jump and airiel simultaneously.

 

[cpm]

any advice on how to get 8 kos or more with Lucina in solo cruel smash?

 

[Sonic94]

They seem impossible to me. No one is predictable at this level. Everything happens so fast. The There just is no way to see any sort of pattern whilest in the midst of a fight. It always seems to be better to just focus on my on moves and strategies rather than wasting time trying to figure out my opponets.

Is there something I am not getting because I have taken a four hour iq test from a psychologist and scored higher then 125.

I am just not good enough at the game yet? I have played ALOT of smash bros. (Mostly on for glory)