Game Over - Return of Ganon! Support Thread of the classic Demon King! (OP stepping down, thread open for take over)

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We have spirits for Ganondorf from Twilight Princess, Dark Beast Ganon (the enhanced form), Ganon from Ocarina of Time, and Calamity Ganon.

Ganon from Ocarina of Time may or may not stand in for most of Ganon's appearances. But no, there is no spirit of Ganon specifically in his 2D Zelda pig demon form (Zelda 1, 2, ALttP, etc.)
 

Ahm Skittish!

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OOT Ganon really doesn't stand in for ALTTP Ganon. They're vastly different entities in their abilities/how they fight.

OOT Ganon also is significantly larger(as I noted before) and fights like a swordsman with two swords in many ways. ALTTP Ganon fights with a Trident and is more magic-based in many abilities. None of the actual forms of Ganon cover that very well, as they're just super physical instead. It's part of why people want ALTTP Ganon to contrast Ganondorf. Even version of the same character in the Zelda series happens to be basically a difference of Fast VS Slow/Strong. So having a fast ALTTP Ganon to contrast the slower Ganondorf would be neat too. It's a good coincidence that balances it out. Albeit, Toon Link and Young Link still share the fast role.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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That doesn't really matter, anyway. They play differently... just like Young Link and Link in Melee are different. Except far more differently.

Which is all that matters for making characters playable. They need differences. Same person/being/whatever is pretty clearly irrelevant to that. I could see that mattering possibly for characters who are literally lookalikes with differences even less than Pit and Dark Pit, sure. These guys are really really different designs.
 

fogbadge

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That doesn't really matter, anyway. They play differently... just like Young Link and Link in Melee are different. Except far more differently.

Which is all that matters for making characters playable. They need differences. Same person/being/whatever is pretty clearly irrelevant to that. I could see that mattering possibly for characters who are literally lookalikes with differences even less than Pit and Dark Pit, sure. These guys are really really different designs.
i know, just thought it was worth noting
 

Ahm Skittish!

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i know, just thought it was worth noting
The term "well to be fair" can often be taken as an argument against someone's point. I honestly didn't get the impression you were just stating a cool fact, so apologies for the misunderstanding.
 
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Finally, a good look at the model.
oh shoot so that's where that Ganon model image came from (thought Dalek_Kolt Dalek_Kolt actually ripped the model XD)
i been wanting someone to rip out ALBW Ganon's model for the longest time now, maybe someone can put it to good use or use it as a base for something better.

also its been a super long time i seen the Ganon support, hope you guys are holding up well! (add me on the support list btw pls ;v;)
 

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Hey, let's make a moveset for Ganon!

  1. Neutral B: Fire Keese. He summons a Fire Keese that flies in a straight line, dropping little fireballs as it goes. Flies about as far as Samus's Charge Shot. The longer you hold the button, the farther it goes.
  2. Side-B: Spinning Trident. He throws his trident, which spins horizontally. If it hits anyone, Ganon is instantly transported there for a follow-up attack; otherwise, it returns like a boomerang. Can be aimed.
  3. Up-B: Teleport. Similar to Mewtwo's Teleport. Has pretty short range to make up for Spinning Trident being so useful. Deals no damage.
  4. Down-B: Stomp. A short hop and a hard stomp that stuns (but does not damage) anyone standing on the same platform, like a Sledge Bro or one of the heavier Koopalings. Deals good damage if he lands directly on an opponent.
  5. Final Smash: Calamity Ganon. Turns into a swirling purple pig-faced vortex of doom. Pretty much a mix of Corrin's and Bayonetta's Final Smashes.
 
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This is always my go-to ideal moveset. (credit to haibu)

The only thing I would change from this is giving Ganon his dual swords when he is tridentless as a backup weapon, similar to crownless K. Rool or Bowser Jr. post-up-B.
View attachment 224716
Yeah basically just replace the slapping thing with the dual blades from Ocarina of Time as a back up weapon whenever the Trident is away. Make him run on all fours (like K.Rool does) in order to reference his Beast Ganon forms. And make his final Smash Calamity Beast Ganon where he shoots out a large beam and you've basically got the best blend of all his forms throughout the history of Zelda. (Besides his human form, but that's what Ganondorf is for)
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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I imagine. To be fair, it's a little hard to think of an ultimate attack for a character that's already in their ultimate form.

Maybe both incarnations could summon Phantom Ganons to mow down their opponents.
That or maybe the Ganon Force Ensemble. It'd summon every single version of Ganon, Ganondorf, and related monsters. So Yuga, Yuga Ganon, all 3 Ganondorfs, every version of Ganon(even Shadow Ganon), both Agnahims, and all the Phantom Ganons.

Cause cutscene final attacks that show of all versions of the franchise are awesome. And yes, it'd have both NES Ganons(Zelda 1 and Zelda II). Though maybe Shadow Ganon covers Zelda II Ganon well enough.
 

Planet Cool

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The only thing I would change from this is giving Ganon his dual swords when he is tridentless as a backup weapon, similar to crownless K. Rool or Bowser Jr. post-up-B.
Yeah basically just replace the slapping thing with the dual blades from Ocarina of Time as a back up weapon whenever the Trident is away.
But he needs empty hands to catch the trident when it returns. The animation of him quickly putting away the swords before grabbing the trident would probably look pretty janky and unnatural. I think I'd prefer if he attacks with his hands.

That or maybe the Ganon Force Ensemble. It'd summon every single version of Ganon, Ganondorf, and related monsters. So Yuga, Yuga Ganon, all 3 Ganondorfs, every version of Ganon(even Shadow Ganon), both Agnahims, and all the Phantom Ganons.

Cause cutscene final attacks that show of all versions of the franchise are awesome. And yes, it'd have both NES Ganons(Zelda 1 and Zelda II). Though maybe Shadow Ganon covers Zelda II Ganon well enough.
Gotta say, I'm not super into that. No matter what Viridi says, canonically there's only one Ganon/dorf (or two, according to the Hyrule Historia, but that's already been retconned). If y'all don't like Calamity Ganon, here's an alternate idea: he summons Phantom Ganon to slash and/or shoot a blast of purple magic at the people caught in the attack.
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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Gotta say, I'm not super into that. No matter what Viridi says, canonically there's only one Ganon/dorf (or two, according to the Hyrule Historia, but that's already retconned). If y'all don't like Calamity Ganon, here's an alternate idea: he summons Phantom Ganon to slash and/or shoot a blast of purple magic at the people caught in the attack.
We had both versions of OOT Link in Smash. I don't think that's going to remotely matter. Truthfully, while my idea works fine to show off Ganon's vast history as a villain, it's also a crapload of models/sprites, and wouldn't be a good idea due to that.

But that's a cool idea too.
 
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But he needs empty hands to catch the trident when it returns. The animation of him quickly putting away the swords before grabbing the trident would probably look pretty janky and unnatural. I think I'd prefer if he attacks with his hands.
I don't know, doesn't Link also generally have his hands full with his Sword and Shield equipped? He seems to be able to transition between his shield and whatever item he holds just fine from what I recall.
 
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In that case, you could also have the swords grow and shrink into his hands whenever he needs them, like he did in Ocarina of Time and "technically" in Wind Waker too.
That way, he doesn't need to get too overly equipped in his main model.
 
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Oddball

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I'm against the swords idea. I'd rather go pure olds school Ganon. If he's not using a trident, then he uses his fists.

The idea of him summoning a bigger nastier Ganon doesn't work for me either because he's already the Bigger Nastier version.
 

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I'm glad someone agrees. I don't understand the fixation with giving Ganon/dorf swords in general. The best Ganondorf fight is the one from Ocarina of Time and he's pure wizard in that. It's pretty egregious that he still can't throw an energy ball.

But yeah, for pig Ganon, I'm 100% team trident.
 

Dalek_Kolt

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I'm glad someone agrees. I don't understand the fixation with giving Ganon/dorf swords in general. The best Ganondorf fight is the one from Ocarina of Time and he's pure wizard in that. It's pretty egregious that he still can't throw an energy ball.

But yeah, for pig Ganon, I'm 100% team trident.
The main idea behind the dual swords was a way of compositing all the designs. If Ganon has an attack that lets him throw his trident like a boomerang, then he could pull out the Ocarina of Time blades as a backup weapon until his Trident returns.

Think of his Trident as a combination of King K. Rool's Crownerang combined with Bowser Jr.'s "helpless" state after his Up B, where he wields a hammer for his attacks.
1559781790604.png
 

Planet Cool

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I get it, but I don't like the idea of him suddenly spawning swords for the three seconds he's without his trident. It'd be much easier, cleaner, and more "readable" if he just punches or scratches. Just my opinion.
 
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well this is a support thread for classic ganon right? so its before he even used swords right?
I mean if we're going by the literal sense of the word. Then its before he even used a Trident. Which he didn't use until A Link to the Past....

In the original Legend of Zelda. He mainly relied on turning invisible and shooting fireballs and whatnot...
 
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fogbadge

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I mean if we're going by the literal sense of the word. Then its before he even used a Trident. Which he didn't use until A Link to the Past....

In the original Legend of Zelda. He mainly relied on turning invisible and shooting fireballs and whatnot...
ok im probably over thinking it

i mean surely it doesnt matter what incarnation we use any of them could be very unique
 

RetrogamerMax

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I love how active this thread has been in the past couple of days.

I'm hoping for another kind of Pig King but i would really like the original Ganon ! I support.

Does he have a spirit or not ? I forgot.
I was thinking on what other pig king you were talking about, and than it hit me. :idea: :laugh:


Hey, let's make a moveset for Ganon!

  1. Neutral B: Fire Keese. He summons a Fire Keese that flies in a straight line, dropping little fireballs as it goes. Flies about as far as Samus's Charge Shot. The longer you hold the button, the farther it goes.
  2. Side-B: Spinning Trident. He throws his trident, which spins horizontally. If it hits anyone, Ganon is instantly transported there for a follow-up attack; otherwise, it returns like a boomerang. Can be aimed.
  3. Up-B: Teleport. Similar to Mewtwo's Teleport. Has pretty short range to make up for Spinning Trident being so useful. Deals no damage.
  4. Down-B: Stomp. A short hop and a hard stomp that stuns (but does not damage) anyone standing on the same platform, like a Sledge Bro or one of the heavier Koopalings. Deals good damage if he lands directly on an opponent.
  5. Final Smash: Calamity Ganon. Turns into a swirling purple pig-faced vortex of doom. Pretty much a mix of Corrin's and Bayonetta's Final Smashes.
I'm against the swords idea. I'd rather go pure olds school Ganon. If he's not using a trident, then he uses his fists.

The idea of him summoning a bigger nastier Ganon doesn't work for me either because he's already the Bigger Nastier version.
Very brief leaked footage of playable Ganon gameplay:

He is confirmed for the Season Pass bois!
 

psb123

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I love how active this thread has been in the past couple of days.
Speaking of that, has anyone noticed lately?

Ever since A Link Between Worlds we’ve gotten Zelda in Smash with the design from that game, an upcoming remake of another classic Zelda title, that being Links Awakening, and Cadence of Hyrule seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from A Link to the Past.

Me thinks this gives Ganons chances at least a decent increase.
 

fogbadge

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ok im probably over thinking it

i mean surely it doesnt matter what incarnation we use any of them could be very unique
actually adding on to that further theres nothing to say that any incarnation cant uses powers from another incarnation, look at zelda
 

Dalek_Kolt

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Another reason why I suggested the dual blades as a backup for the trident was to reduce potential animation changes needed, as trident swings and jabs would need to be replaced with punches, swipes and swings for only a few seconds on average (Unless we made the trident go full Kratos' axe and had him throw and summon whenever he wanted) The animations with the dual swords would likely need little changes as a result.
Also there's nothing stopping him from wielding swords and performing magic. Only issue left is I envision him doing a Donkey Kong/K. Rool style-sprint, and how well a bestial run would work with dual blades or a trident. Might sketch something later.
 
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Planet Cool

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Speaking of that, has anyone noticed lately?

Ever since A Link Between Worlds we’ve gotten Zelda in Smash with the design from that game, an upcoming remake of another classic Zelda title, that being Links Awakening, and Cadence of Hyrule seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from A Link to the Past.

Me thinks this gives Ganons chances at least a decent increase.
Oh yeah. It's only a matter of time before Zelda gets its Mario Galaxy/3D World, just a big revival of all the classic eighties/nineties iconography. I mean, A Link Between Worlds itself could be that, but if it's not on a home console it doesn't count, I say.
 

Dalek_Kolt

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I had some terrible thoughts for alternate Ganons to be announced.
  • Ganon (The Wind Waker)
  • Phantom Ganon (Ocarina of Time)
  • Phantom Ganon (The Wind Waker)
Probably not going to happen, as some others like Minish Cap Vaati, Gohma, Dodongo and river Zoras are also missing, I just needed to write my thoughts.
 
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I had some terrible thoughts for alternate Ganons to be announced.
  • Ganon (The Wind Waker)
  • Phantom Ganon (Ocarina of Time)
  • Phantom Ganon (The Wind Waker)
Probably not going to happen, as some others like Minish Cap Vaati, Gohma, Dodongo and river Zoras are also missing, I just needed to write my thoughts.
Do you mean as alternate Ganons that could potentially make it in over classic Ganon?
I don't really see any of those happening besides Toon Ganondorf maybe. Since he apparently has a small support base too, at least in Japan.
 

fogbadge

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I had some terrible thoughts for alternate Ganons to be announced.
  • Ganon (The Wind Waker)
  • Phantom Ganon (Ocarina of Time)
  • Phantom Ganon (The Wind Waker)
Probably not going to happen, as some others like Minish Cap Vaati, Gohma, Dodongo and river Zoras are also missing, I just needed to write my thoughts.
it would be odd if either puppet or phantom got in first, theres a lot of characters itd be odd if they got in before
 
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