Game Over - Return of Ganon! Support Thread of the classic Demon King! - (OP stepping down, thread open for take over)

[Curious Villager]

I'm a supporter of Ganon, and Ganon is one of my most wanted characters along with Adeleine and Karate Joe (and maybe Cpt Syrup).
Though, since he's a boss in this game, I have lost all my hopes... I still want him, but I think it's not happening, not in this game.
Well, it's not impossible, we have 3 versions of Link... it's just that it became very unlikely now that he's a boss and he's referred as just "Ganon", even though he uses a different design.
I hope he makes it in the next game, and especially I hope people will start supporting him more now that Ridley and K Rool are in the game.

About the name, I think that Pig Ganon still creates confusion; OoT Ganon has some pig traits, Twilight Princess Ganon is still a sort of pig, and even Calamity Ganon is, sort of.
Blue Pig can help, since the only Ganon who was blue, was the one using the classic design; I think that Classic Ganon works fine too as a name (even though it makes me think of Classic Sonic because that's where the term "Classic" was used the most to define a different version of a character).

Anyway, I watched the boss battle and I didn't like it...

Spoiler

The player may have been a noob, but from what I have seen, the boss is only vulnerable at his tail, and in order to hit the tail, you must fly over him and attack him before he turns back and faces you again. It's very frustrating and it seems that there is no way to damage him when he's facing at you.
It seems that you can't even roll through him because he's too big. The Young Link player needed to use the recovery in order to fly over Ganon, and after you use the recovery, you free fall in an helpless status. That's not a good way to fight a boss, but there is a chance that it's the only way, at least for Young Link.
In order to make the boss less frustrating, they made it so that after some damage, he is stunned and you can attack him freely for a while before he starts fighting again (probably it's also a reference to the original boss from OoT, I can't remember, but in OoT it was in a 3D space and you could run around him).

Yeah his chances for this game probably isn't the best, but hopefully his appearance as a boss may inspire some and get more interest for him to be playable for the next Smash, he was only a split second Final Smash in the previous two games and it was only his quadruped form from Twilight Princess after all, so probably not as much interest for him to be playable was there at the time, especially during Brawl.

Yeah giving him the right nickname may also be a bit of a challenge, perhaps if we can just get people used to referring to Ganon as Ganon and Ganondorf as either Ganondorf or giving him a better shorter nickname would probably help a lot. Otherwise we would be stuck giving Ganon a million different nicknames like Pig Ganon, Classic Ganon, Moblin Ganon, Trident Ganon, Biped Ganon etc etc etc there just won't be an end to it and only makes things more confusing when we all know that at the end of the day, if Sakurai made Ganon playable, he would just be referred to as "Ganon" plain and simple.

And yeah in regards to the boss, there probably is a way to make that fight more manageable, I believe you could weaken Rathalos by making it step on a pitfall item so there probably is a way to stun Ganon more reliably too. In Ocarina of Time I believe you could stun him if you hit him in the face with a light arrow before going after his tail, so you probably can do that in his boss fight too. At least, I haven't seen anyone attacking him at his face so far...

 

[Oddball]

About the name, I think that Pig Ganon still creates confusion; OoT Ganon has some pig traits, Twilight Princess Ganon is still a sort of pig, and even Calamity Ganon is, sort of.
Blue Pig can help, since the only Ganon who was blue, was the one using the classic design; I think that Classic Ganon works fine too as a name (even though it makes me think of Classic Sonic because that's where the term "Classic" was used the most to define a different version of a character).

I always specify Ganon, the big blue pig monster, which is a bit of a mouthful but gets the point across.

 

[Porygon2]

Anyone else kind of bothered that "Ganon" and "Ganondorf" are used interchangeably to refer to his human form? It makes searching for fan art of the pig form a lot harder. You have do specify "pig Ganon" or "Beast Ganon" and you know not everybody refers to him that way... meanwhile, nobody would ever refer to his monster form as Ganondorf.

It's also confusing to specify that we want Pig Ganon specifically for Smash Bros.


This is really good but I do wish they left his eyes pure white. He doesn't look right with irises and pupils, though I know his ALTTP artwork has it, but the sprite sure didn't.

In any case, I'm not too confident about Ganon for the Fighter pass DLC. We need to make some noise for Ganon to get people wanting him as bad as they wanted Ridley and K. Rool, and maybe if enough buzz is generated, he'll be in a theoretical wave 2... or the next game, in 10 years.

Perhaps start using 'Dorf and Ganon colloquially, or reaffirm that 'Demon King Ganon' refers to the pig. Still a mouthful, but has more gravitas than 'pig' or 'beast'.

Anyway, I watched the boss battle and I didn't like it...

Spoiler

The player may have been a noob, but from what I have seen, the boss is only vulnerable at his tail, and in order to hit the tail, you must fly over him and attack him before he turns back and faces you again. It's very frustrating and it seems that there is no way to damage him when he's facing at you.
It seems that you can't even roll through him because he's too big. The Young Link player needed to use the recovery in order to fly over Ganon, and after you use the recovery, you free fall in an helpless status. That's not a good way to fight a boss, but there is a chance that it's the only way, at least for Young Link.
In order to make the boss less frustrating, they made it so that after some damage, he is stunned and you can attack him freely for a while before he starts fighting again (probably it's also a reference to the original boss from OoT, I can't remember, but in OoT it was in a 3D space and you could run around him).

Spoiler

I was perplexed that you can't roll through his legs. It doesn't help that Link's horizontal aerial movement is limited. However something that I think people haven't picked up on is that his stomp attack seems designed for you to run to his other side. Saw someone do it accidentally a couple of times.

 

[StormC]

I think when you say "Pig Ganon" most people get who you mean, the big blue boar with the trident.

 

[Luigifan18]

Yo, I figured I'd share this on a whim.

Maybe it can be squeezed into the OP or something.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yo, I figured I'd share this on a whim.

Maybe it can be squeezed into the OP or something.

That's really cool, I like it.
I feel like Ganon's reveal trailer should probably reference Zelda II The Adventure of Link. Perhaps something like Ridley's Trailer where Ganon first kills off Link (in his Tunic of the Wild outfit), Young Link and Toon Link off screen (In reference to how Link had to be killed in order to revive Ganon) and then emerges behind Zelda as a silhouette behind the cover of flames laughing with his tag line of "Game Over, Return of Ganon!" and showing the caps of the three Link's dangling on to his Trident before crossing over into a gameplay segment.

 

[fogbadge]

Yo, I figured I'd share this on a whim.

Maybe it can be squeezed into the OP or something.

now that takes me back to primary school when people didnt do their homework

That's really cool, I like it.
I feel like Ganon's reveal trailer should probably reference Zelda II The Adventure of Link. Perhaps something like Ridley's Trailer where Ganon first kills off Link (in his Tunic of the Wild outfit), Young Link and Toon Link off screen (In reference to how Link had to be killed in order to revive Ganon) and then emerges behind Zelda as a silhouette behind the cover of flames laughing with his tag line of "Game Over, Return of Ganon!" and showing the caps of the three Link's dangling on to his Trident before crossing over into a gameplay segment.

geez man

 

[Luigifan18]

now that takes me back to primary school when people didnt do their homework

Um... wait, what...

 

[Curious Villager]

geez man

"Take them down" if you need a less violent sounding alternative...

 

[fogbadge]

Um... wait, what...

View attachment 180935

its called a joke something we scots do on ocasion

"Take them down" if you need a less violent sounding alternative...

oh i misread that i thought it said the three links were on the trident

 

[Luigifan18]

its called a joke something we scots do on occasion

...I don't get it.

oh i misread that i thought it said the three links were on the trident

 

[Curious Villager]

oh i misread that i thought it said the three links were on the trident

Oh gosh I know they killed Luigi with a death scythe but I wasn't thinking of something THAT extreme....

 

[fogbadge]

...I don't get it.

the implication is someone at my school looked like ganon

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Ganon looked like he had a fun moveset, so I scaled him to playable size.

Doesn't look too bad IMO, only issue is he looks kind of awkward next to Ganondorf.

 

[fogbadge]

it would be really entertaining if classic blue ganon battled oot ganon at the end of classic mode

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I had a thought.

Toon Ganondorf's support came from the fact that he had dual swords, right?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I had a thought.
View attachment 182706
Toon Ganondorf's support came from the fact that he had dual swords, right?

I personally prefer Lloyd as the duel sword wielder rep. Ganon is good with the trident.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I made a thread for generally supporting Zelda reps in general, since a lot of Zelda threads aren't super active. We need to get together and scream louder than we can seperately.

Come join us if you want to.

 

[Dreamking]

Some thoughts follow about naming convention with a dash of thoughts regarding the character mythos.

First I've been playing Zelda games, except a few, since the NES days. Second, "Ganon" for me is the trident/magic using form, "Ganondorf" is the humanoid and [Adjective] Ganon is an eldritch form he adopts Ina variety of battles. These are the three flavors of the character.

Now for the name. I would be fine with his trident/magic incarnation being known as Ganon. I believe this is enough indication that this is a separate version. If we need a descriptor in addition to "Ganon", I'm not exactly keen on "Classic Ganon".

Wile having breakfast, I was mulling over other names. I know "Calamity Ganon" doesnt look like the classic Ganon we know, but that was one idea, I also thought about "Beast Ganon", but players might be confused when discussing the plausible playable character and Ganondorf's Final Smash. Of the two, I would go with "Beast Ganon". Still I think the character being known as "Ganon" is sufficient.

 

[Wiziliz]

I personally prefer Lloyd as the duel sword wielder rep. Ganon is good with the trident.

Travis Touchdown and Lloyd can join Pit with the dual blades, but I definitely agree, Ganon needs his trident.

 

[MasterWarlord]

This was Ganon's best chance with no episodic Zelda character in his way. Breath of the Wild had no obvious candidate to advertise. SSB4 had Ghirahim, Brawl had Midna. This time, Ganon had no competition.

With Ganon being both a boss and Final Smash, though, and Ganondorf finally becoming more unique with his sword, Ganon is pretty much done for now, though, unfortunately. He's still one of the best choices for a new heavyweight/villain for Smash 6 with K. Rool and Ridley out of the way, and certainly the best choice for new Zelda character.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I mean it's not a total loss if they remake this boss.

Now that I think on it, a doubleheaded trident sounds fun to play with.

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh I wouldn't say that he's done for. Sure in this game his chances may have passed (Then again, being fair, I don't really see any first parties really happening for DLC other than promotional picks like a gen 8 Pokemon or something)

For the next game, I'd say he'd be on the table again. Especially if Nintendo continues to remake games that Ganon appears in such as the Oracle games and whatnot to keep him relevant to the public and maybe even revitalize interest in the character.

That's just me though.

 

[fogbadge]

Eh I wouldn't say that he's done for. Sure in this game his chances may have passed (Then again, being fair, I don't really see any first parties really happening for DLC other than promotional picks like a gen 8 Pokemon or something)

For the next game, I'd say he'd be on the table again. Especially if Nintendo continues to remake games that Ganon appears in such as the Oracle games and whatnot to keep him relevant to the public and maybe even revitalize interest in the character.

That's just me though.

well i dont see him going anywhere even in future games

 

[fleshdude.gov]

I mean it's not a total loss if they remake this boss.
View attachment 204094
Now that I think on it, a doubleheaded trident sounds fun to play with.

I wonder how they're going to do that boss in the remake...

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Finally, a good look at the model.

 

[Dreamking]

Finally, a good look at the model.

I loved this episode of Boundary Break because we got a good look at Ganon. When playing the game, I was disappointed that we didn't get a better look at him. If he got in, his appearance in Ultimate ought to be based on this game.

Think of it this way. We have three incarnations of Link, Zelda and her alter-ego Sheik, and Ganondorf. While we could use more Zelda characters and it would be refreshing if those characters are not Triforce wielders, we could use a form of Ganon based on his appearances in the Downfall Timeline. We could keep the Ganondorf we have and feature "Classic" Ganon as the more canonical incarnation.

 

[Planet Cool]

I've been rooting for Ganon since at least the Smash 4 pre-release. Back then, I couldn't find a single person who agreed that he'd be a worthy new addition (they all say things like "We already have Ganondorf" and "Ganondorf's cooler"). But ever since King K. Rool and Ridley got in, I've noticed that people are much more open to the idea of a playable classic Ganon.

I'm not expecting him in the Fighters Pass, since it's pretty much an open secret that those'll all be third-party characters, but maybe Sakurai will put him in Smash 6 if we make enough (polite, civil) noise.

 

[TheYungLink]

I had no idea one of my most wanted even had a support thread, considering we already have Ganondorf.

It's most likely too late for this to count for anything, but I'd like to be put down as a supporter. Unique Ganondorf will never happen, so ever since I accepted that fact, I started banking on Ganon as hard as I could. A Link to the Past on GBA was my first Zelda game, and I'll never forget how incredibly difficult, yet cool, the final boss against Ganon was.

 

[Curious Villager]

Finally, a good look at the model.

Its nice to see him being fully modelled like that. Makes me wish even more that someone would finally upload his model to the models resource so we can take an even better look at how he's designed. Maybe one day...

I've been rooting for Ganon since at least the Smash 4 pre-release. Back then, I couldn't find a single person who agreed that he'd be a worthy new addition (they all say things like "We already have Ganondorf" and "Ganondorf's cooler"). But ever since King K. Rool and Ridley got in, I've noticed that people are much more open to the idea of a playable classic Ganon.

I'm not expecting him in the Fighters Pass, since it's pretty much an open secret that those'll all be third-party characters, but maybe Sakurai will put him in Smash 6 if we make enough (polite, civil) noise.

I suppose one other argument people used to throw at Ganon was the infamous "He's too big" line that used to plague Ridley and K.Rool to a lesser extend.
I guess its a good thing that these characters threw out most of the arguments that where also thrown at Ganon.

I suppose his inclusion as a proper Boss in his biped form in Smash Ultimate over his Twilight Princess Beast form that didn't do much besides charging towards other fighters for a split second, also gave people a clearer look at the character and what he's capable off. Especially since Nintendo themselves had been mostly relying on the quadruped beast form in most of his modern appearances as well as only giving his classic form a mere cameo in a Link Between Worlds.

Ganon does also sort of make an appearance in Link's Awakening and there are also these rumours floating around of an A Link to the Past remake for next year so who knows. Maybe that will help spark some more interest in classic Ganon for Smash in the future.


Also, nice to see some more supporters in, I'll add you all to the supporters list. Thanks!

 

[Planet Cool]

Thank you!

I've gotta say, though, I support the NES/SNES version of Ganon specifically. The one with the cape and trident. Something more modern, like the one from Ocarina of Time, wouldn't quite scratch my itch (not that I wouldn't take it).

Honestly, my greatest Zelda-related wish is a modern 3D game that goes back to the aesthetics of ALttP/ALBW. That eighties anime vibe. It is by far my favorite look for the series.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I need to update my vectors.

 

[Planet Cool]

I had an idea. What if Ganon's dodge has him turning invisible, like in the final battle of ALttP, and his roll has him turning into a bat, like when he flies out of Agahnim's cloak/corpse?

 

[Arcadenik]

I need to update my vectors.
View attachment 222716

I want Ganon so bad.

It would be nice if Smash 6 had two Zelda newcomers (to make up for the lack of Zelda newcomers in SSB4 and Ultimate) with ALTTP Ganon and MM Skull Kid.

 

[Planet Cool]

Skull Kid would make a big splash but I'm personally not all that fond of him. If I had to pick another Zelda newcomer after classic Ganon, it would be Tingle, partly because he's one of the few Zelda characters that's in multiple games and partly because he's the star of his own (Japan-only) series.

 

[fogbadge]

I want Ganon so bad.

It would be nice if Smash 6 had two Zelda newcomers (to make up for the lack of Zelda newcomers in SSB4 and Ultimate) with ALTTP Ganon and MM Skull Kid.

id take anyone

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Got these character scales from the training room. Will update with Young Link as soon as possible.

 

[Planet Cool]

Dang, he's bigger than K. Rool and Bowser. I guess he'll have to be pretty hunched to make up for that, like Ridley...

 

[Curious Villager]

Dang, he's bigger than K. Rool and Bowser. I guess he'll have to be pretty hunched to make up for that, like Ridley...

I mean, he's standing pretty straight up in Dalek_Kolt 's height chart. He'd more than likely be hunched over a bit in terms of gameplay anyway. Probably much like his official art for A Link Between Worlds.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I mean, he's standing pretty straight up in Dalek_Kolt 's height chart. He'd more than likely be hunched over a bit in terms of gameplay anyway. Probably much like his official art for A Link Between Worlds.

For reference, the one shot I got the pose from is him floating midair, so of course he'll have good posture.