• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Game Over - Return of Ganon! Support Thread of the classic Demon King! - (OP stepping down, thread open for take over)

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
11,770
Location
London
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Ganon and Ganondorf have completely different methods of how they handle their plans? I mean, Ganondorf is generally shown to manipulate and trick others to do what he wants with false promises as rewards (Ingo, Zant) Whereas Ganon moreso goes out of his way to outright possess them and control them like a puppet to do what he wants (Agahnim and the Guardians from BotW)

While they are technically the same character, their methods on how they get the job done is usually different.
 
Last edited:

thirsty-pocket

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
702
Well it's a little harder to use fake diplomacy and get close enough to important figures to manipulate them when you're a hulking murder pig.
 

Porygon2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
225
I always took it that Pig Ganon was just more unrestrained - the Triforce transforming Ganondorf into a closer representation of his true nature, stripping away what humanity he has.

I still like the idea of building on the Demise lore, and exploring some incarnation of Ganondorf as a tragic victim of Demise, rather than wholly derivative of Demise himself. A more sophisticated play on the idea of evil exploiting resentment, etc. Of course it would end in a Link + reformed Ganondorf teamup, some kind of cliche sacrifice, and a whole bunch of unfortunate fanart.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,374
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Not entirely. Ganon has actual goals. Just definitely none with potential morality. Ganondorf however clearly either lacks morality(due to Demise's curse screwing up his potential to choose his own paths, good or evil) or fully has it(Wind Waker absolutely shows he's not some pure evil being. He's no good guy, either, of course).

Ganon is not a pure monster outside of his mindless beast-like form in the Oracle Games, and maybe the BOTW variant as well.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
Not entirely. Ganon has actual goals. Just definitely none with potential morality. Ganondorf however clearly either lacks morality(due to Demise's curse screwing up his potential to choose his own paths, good or evil) or fully has it(Wind Waker absolutely shows he's not some pure evil being. He's no good guy, either, of course).

Ganon is not a pure monster outside of his mindless beast-like form in the Oracle Games, and maybe the BOTW variant as well.
do you think ganondorf was cursed by demise?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,374
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
do you think ganondorf was cursed by demise?
To a degree. It's very weirdly explained within the series. Ganondorf overall is affected by the curse(along with Ganon, which we don't even know if he'd exist if it weren't for Demise. It was just originally his Dark World form, now suddenly he exists because the curse forces the hatred to reincarnate? Is that why he keeps coming back, but is the same Ganon almost every time now? Is he meant to be immortal and temporarily sealed away otherwise for a time?

It was pretty easy when it was stuff before Demise existed, but now that he does, it's very vague on how reincarnation works for Ganon/dorf. The Hero and Princess are easy to understand. We will always get a new Link and Zelda, via destiny, to battle a new evil that threatens Hyrule. The Spirit of the Hero generally attaches onto Link, but that seems to really be more of a case that the Triforce of Courage will always be attached to Link instead, as dictated by Demise. Same for the other Triforce pieces and who they belong to.

You can already tell how convoluted it sounds. Maybe somebody else can explain it a bit better.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
To a degree. It's very weirdly explained within the series. Ganondorf overall is affected by the curse(along with Ganon, which we don't even know if he'd exist if it weren't for Demise. It was just originally his Dark World form, now suddenly he exists because the curse forces the hatred to reincarnate? Is that why he keeps coming back, but is the same Ganon almost every time now? Is he meant to be immortal and temporarily sealed away otherwise for a time?

It was pretty easy when it was stuff before Demise existed, but now that he does, it's very vague on how reincarnation works for Ganon/dorf. The Hero and Princess are easy to understand. We will always get a new Link and Zelda, via destiny, to battle a new evil that threatens Hyrule. The Spirit of the Hero generally attaches onto Link, but that seems to really be more of a case that the Triforce of Courage will always be attached to Link instead, as dictated by Demise. Same for the other Triforce pieces and who they belong to.

You can already tell how convoluted it sounds. Maybe somebody else can explain it a bit better.
it never sounded convoluted to me, demise swore his hatred would reincarnate to torment the decedents of the goddess (zelda) and the spirit of the hero (link) and that reincarnation is ganondorf

ganondorf always comes back for the same reason as link and zelda and to be fair theres only been three separate incarnations so far

ganondorf is demie's hatred in a sense hes to demise what zelda is to hylia
 

Porygon2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
225
To a degree. It's very weirdly explained within the series. Ganondorf overall is affected by the curse(along with Ganon, which we don't even know if he'd exist if it weren't for Demise. It was just originally his Dark World form, now suddenly he exists because the curse forces the hatred to reincarnate? Is that why he keeps coming back, but is the same Ganon almost every time now? Is he meant to be immortal and temporarily sealed away otherwise for a time?
The pig form seems to be a mixed representation of both Demise's demonic hatred and whatever evil is inherent to Ganon/dorf. We know demons can work this way in Zelda as we see something similar with Malladus in Spirit Tracks. The demon has its own distinct form, but on possessing Cole he becomes an exaggerated, bestial version of Cole. When he possessed Zelda earlier, she simply became a puppet rather than a monster. I’d argue that this is the case because, in her, the spirit has no evil aspect to bring forth. Same reason Link became a Bunny in the Dark World.

What's unique with Demise is that he had a distinct form which was destroyed, but no longer requires it to actively possess a chosen vessel, as he tied his continued influence to destiny itself via his curse, creating the "cycle without end".

I do personally like the idea that Malladus/Cole essentially became influenced by Demise's curse when Ganondorf was unavailable after being turned to stone in WW, but that's harder to discuss and causes a bunch of potential plotholes (not least of which is exactly what part the triforce plays). I really only argue it because the idea of a demon’s eternal curse is cool, and having the results of this curse essentially occur independently of Demise in Spirit Tracks kinda neuters the whole thing.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,374
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
The pig form seems to be a mixed representation of both Demise's demonic hatred and whatever evil is inherent to Ganon/dorf. We know demons can work this way in Zelda as we see something similar with Malladus in Spirit Tracks. The demon has its own distinct form, but on possessing Cole he becomes an exaggerated, bestial version of Cole. When he possessed Zelda earlier, she simply became a puppet rather than a monster. I’d argue that this is the case because, in her, the spirit has no evil aspect to bring forth. Same reason Link became a Bunny in the Dark World.

What's unique with Demise is that he had a distinct form which was destroyed, but no longer requires it to actively possess a chosen vessel, as he tied his continued influence to destiny itself via his curse, creating the "cycle without end".

I do personally like the idea that Malladus/Cole essentially became influenced by Demise's curse when Ganondorf was unavailable after being turned to stone in WW, but that's harder to discuss and causes a bunch of potential plotholes (not least of which is exactly what part the triforce plays). I really only argue it because the idea of a demon’s eternal curse is cool, and having the results of this curse essentially occur independently of Demise in Spirit Tracks kinda neuters the whole thing.
That said, Malladus looks like Wario. :p

But yeah, I think that's more of a Dark World thing. My theory is that The Sacred Realm got corrupted by Demise's evil that was stuck inside Ganondorf. Demise's evil doesn't actually affect any character beyond Ganondorf to begin with. Zelda and Link too, but it doesn't really imply they have evil inside them either. Ganondorf himself isn't inherently evil, but there's an implication he can't ultimately choose his own path due to this. I think WW is showing how he is trying to do his own thing, good or evil.

it never sounded convoluted to me, demise swore his hatred would reincarnate to torment the decedents of the goddess (zelda) and the spirit of the hero (link) and that reincarnation is ganondorf

ganondorf always comes back for the same reason as link and zelda and to be fair theres only been three separate incarnations so far

ganondorf is demie's hatred in a sense hes to demise what zelda is to hylia
It's more that it's not entirely clear how it affects Ganondorf as is. Is it the only reason he'll continue to be born, same with the others? Is that the beginning and end of it? Is he the only reason the Triforce becomes tied to them? It feels like it was thrown in but explored and explained rather poorly. We already had a good reason for why the Triforce was tied to the others by destiny. Destiny cannot always be changed, even by time travel. It can often transcend time. So once they got the Triforce pieces in OOT, it was a locked destiny. TP Ganondorf pretty much showed that as is. And he didn't successfully get the Triforce in OOT yet it was locked to him.

The issue is there's an implication that Demise is the only reason for that, though it's somewhat better of an explanation than "cause time shenanigans", admittedly.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
That said, Malladus looks like Wario. :p
Now I want Nintendo to make a game that, at least in story, is a rip-off of Castlevania Aria of Sorrow. But instead of Soma fighting to deny his destiny as Dracula’s reincarnation, it’s Wario fighting off Demise’s curse.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
That said, Malladus looks like Wario. :p

But yeah, I think that's more of a Dark World thing. My theory is that The Sacred Realm got corrupted by Demise's evil that was stuck inside Ganondorf. Demise's evil doesn't actually affect any character beyond Ganondorf to begin with. Zelda and Link too, but it doesn't really imply they have evil inside them either. Ganondorf himself isn't inherently evil, but there's an implication he can't ultimately choose his own path due to this. I think WW is showing how he is trying to do his own thing, good or evil.


It's more that it's not entirely clear how it affects Ganondorf as is. Is it the only reason he'll continue to be born, same with the others? Is that the beginning and end of it? Is he the only reason the Triforce becomes tied to them? It feels like it was thrown in but explored and explained rather poorly. We already had a good reason for why the Triforce was tied to the others by destiny. Destiny cannot always be changed, even by time travel. It can often transcend time. So once they got the Triforce pieces in OOT, it was a locked destiny. TP Ganondorf pretty much showed that as is. And he didn't successfully get the Triforce in OOT yet it was locked to him.

The issue is there's an implication that Demise is the only reason for that, though it's somewhat better of an explanation than "cause time shenanigans", admittedly.
i think the implication is he is inherently evil due to being made of the demon king's hate, i have to agree not everything is clear but i think thats what they were going for
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,374
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
i think the implication is he is inherently evil due to being made of the demon king's hate, i have to agree not everything is clear but i think thats what they were going for
That makes sense. And sucks if that's the case. I don't like the idea of "cannot have your own morality". That's why I wonder if WW was him trying to break free of it. It is notable this is the first time Ganon's forms do not become a beast itself. It's a literal Puppet. It makes me wonder if Ganondorf gained a huge amount of control over the darkness within him. To be honest, a far-off sequel of WW where they needed the Triforce back would be a great to revive him for help, to fight a greater evil.

Also, I wonder if the Triforce is tied to the curse as well. With Ganondorf completely stopped, but also the WW ending implies the Triforce is no longer in play. To clarify, it's notable that the Triforce's appearances have always been tied to the story, which happens to tie to Demise's curse by proxy when it happens. Is PH trying to imply that with Ganon gone, the curse is broken or currently unable to "do anything"? The final bosses in PH and ST are theorized to still relate to Demise's Curse(moreso the ST one), but there's nothing to suggest that either.

Maybe convoluted wasn't the right word, but the series is far more confusing than it needs to be with Demise looming over it. Plus, it downplays the awesomeness that is Ganondorf as well as his ambitions.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
That makes sense. And sucks if that's the case. I don't like the idea of "cannot have your own morality". That's why I wonder if WW was him trying to break free of it. It is notable this is the first time Ganon's forms do not become a beast itself. It's a literal Puppet. It makes me wonder if Ganondorf gained a huge amount of control over the darkness within him. To be honest, a far-off sequel of WW where they needed the Triforce back would be a great to revive him for help, to fight a greater evil.

Also, I wonder if the Triforce is tied to the curse as well. With Ganondorf completely stopped, but also the WW ending implies the Triforce is no longer in play. To clarify, it's notable that the Triforce's appearances have always been tied to the story, which happens to tie to Demise's curse by proxy when it happens. Is PH trying to imply that with Ganon gone, the curse is broken or currently unable to "do anything"? The final bosses in PH and ST are theorized to still relate to Demise's Curse(moreso the ST one), but there's nothing to suggest that either.

Maybe convoluted wasn't the right word, but the series is far more confusing than it needs to be with Demise looming over it. Plus, it downplays the awesomeness that is Ganondorf as well as his ambitions.
who knows maybe we'll find out maybe we won't, we'll just have to wait and see where the series takes and enjoy the ride
 

Dreamking

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
409
Location
The Infinite Beyond
NNID
DreamWanderer92
3DS FC
0817-5074-8674
Switch FC
6827-7951-1977
We have three versions of Link and two forms of Zelda and although it'd be refreshing to have a new Zelda series character who is not a version of one of the Triforce Trio, I thought about classic Ganon this morning and checked if there was a support thread. I found and gladly support.

I was thinking for his onscreen appearance, he could drape his arm over his face like in the original Legend of Zelda.

I also think he and Ganondorf need their own victory theme, one based on his leitmotif.
 

Demonfunds

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
476
I'm not sure why I haven't came here to show my support yet, but since Sakurai wants to declone Ganondorf as slow as possible, I think Pig Gannon with satisfy me for a Ganon with a original moveset, plus Pig Gannons design is so cool.
So yeah, feel free to add me to the support list.
 

Louisacommie

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
166
Hey I decided to start a dlc campaign for zelda newcomers in general early before the game comes out to beat evreyone to the curb

https://mobile.twitter.com/ZeldaNew

I see pig ganon as very likely if we make noise

Zelda only has e unique charavters
And gas no new unique newcomers since 2001

I see pig ganon and mipha as most likely.
 

TempahRelapse

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
227
Location
Melbourne
Is it just me or does Pig Gannon seem to be the most likely rep for Smash DLC. As people seem to be thinking Impa would work as an Echo and Skull Kid seems deconfirmed. And well a non Majora's Mask Tingle, well look at all the hate Pihrana Plant is getting (I actually can't wait to play the character).
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
Is it just me or does Pig Gannon seem to be the most likely rep for Smash DLC. As people seem to be thinking Impa would work as an Echo and Skull Kid seems deconfirmed. And well a non Majora's Mask Tingle, well look at all the hate Pihrana Plant is getting (I actually can't wait to play the character).
nope sakurai hates zelda
 

Porygon2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
225
Is it just me or does Pig Gannon seem to be the most likely rep for Smash DLC. As people seem to be thinking Impa would work as an Echo and Skull Kid seems deconfirmed. And well a non Majora's Mask Tingle, well look at all the hate Pihrana Plant is getting (I actually can't wait to play the character).
Much less likely than most of the big names being thrown around, imo (Sora, Banjo, Steve, Rhythm Heaven rep, Rayman, Elma, etc.) Still, I think he'd be a crowd pleaser in that he'd surprise people who never thought about including him (which is most people, apparently), without being a complete curveball like Piranha Plant. He's very much a 'huh, makes sense' character, and could be a favorite if given a fun moveset.
 

Dalek_Kolt

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
3,557
Location
Skaro
Man it's a slaughter out there. Least Ganon as we want him hasn't been deconfirmed.

And from what I've seen Spirits characters take multiple incarnations into account, because Meta Ridley and Kaptain K Rool are Spirits.
 
Last edited:

Porygon2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
225
Man it's a slaughter out there. Least Ganon as we want him hasn't been deconfirmed.

And from what I've seen Spirits characters take multiple incarnations into account, because Meta Ridley and Kaptain K Rool are Spirits.
There's also a Calamity Ganon spirit, for what it's worth.
 

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
11,770
Location
London
So apparently Chrom still appears in Robin's Final Smash despite being playable now. If Samus appearing in Zero Suit Samus's Final Smash didn't kill the "Final Smash characters can't be playable" rule. Then this certainly did.

Not that I'm expecting Ganon to be one of the five DLC characters (Would be great though) but yeah.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,374
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
So apparently Chrom still appears in Robin's Final Smash despite being playable now. If Samus appearing in Zero Suit Samus's Final Smash didn't kill the "Final Smash characters can't be playable" rule. Then this certainly did.

Not that I'm expecting Ganon to be one of the five DLC characters (Would be great though) but yeah.
This so much. That was the only argument against why he couldn't outright be playable that made some sense.

Of course, some don't prefer him(they want someone who isn't a form of Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf) and that I can understand. Tingle is legitimately my favorite next choice. I still would love Ganon. Fire Bat slinging, Trident swinging, teleporting badass Moblin with attitude.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
So apparently Chrom still appears in Robin's Final Smash despite being playable now. If Samus appearing in Zero Suit Samus's Final Smash didn't kill the "Final Smash characters can't be playable" rule. Then this certainly did.

Not that I'm expecting Ganon to be one of the five DLC characters (Would be great though) but yeah.
its made us toad fans very happy, yeah it puts to bed the same argument against ganon
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,152
NNID
Arcadenik
This so much. That was the only argument against why he couldn't outright be playable that made some sense.

Of course, some don't prefer him(they want someone who isn't a form of Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf) and that I can understand. Tingle is legitimately my favorite next choice. I still would love Ganon. Fire Bat slinging, Trident swinging, teleporting badass Moblin with attitude.
That’s the Ganon I want the most. The one from the NES and SNES games.

I am very happy that Chrom helped destroy the arguments against Ganon and Toad.
 

Iko MattOrr

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
2,082
Location
Italy
NNID
Iko_MattOrr
I don't understand why Ganon is not supported more.
He's both an important character, an unique one (he shares nothing with Ganondorf aside of being the same entity lore-wise), and a reccurring one in the Zelda series... even if he was mostly present in the classic games, he occasionally comes back in the modern games as well, such as 4Sword Adventure and A Link Between Worlds.
(I don't count Calamity Ganon because it doesn't use his classic design).
He's definitely iconic and one of the few most important Nintendo characters still not in the game along with Dixie Kong and Toad (and Metroid who can't be playable because it's a floating jellyfish with no limbs, but who knows, maybe one of his evolved forms).

With Bowser, King K Rool and Ridley (arguably King Dedede and DK too) already in, Ganon is the only recurring big bad guy who's still missing from the roster.
I hope he's one of the DLCs, it would make a lot of sense.
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,152
NNID
Arcadenik
In retrospect, Ganon from the NES and SNES games probably should have gotten in Melee instead of Ganondorf from the N64 game.

Yeah, I understand that Ocarina of Time was new at the time but Sakurai wasn't going to add Ganondorf in Melee unless he had time enough to add 6 clones in the last minute.

I always saw Ganon, or at least the Ganon from pre-Ocarina games, as the Bowser of the Zelda games. And honestly, it would be fun to play as a Moblin-like heavyweight trident-wielding wizard in Smash.

1541551844891.png
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
Hey guys, new tweets from Sakurai came in.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
There was a problem fetching the tweet

So, who are the lucky contestants? We'll just have to wait and see...
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,374
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
In retrospect, Ganon from the NES and SNES games probably should have gotten in Melee instead of Ganondorf from the N64 game.

Yeah, I understand that Ocarina of Time was new at the time but Sakurai wasn't going to add Ganondorf in Melee unless he had time enough to add 6 clones in the last minute.

I always saw Ganon, or at least the Ganon from pre-Ocarina games, as the Bowser of the Zelda games. And honestly, it would be fun to play as a Moblin-like heavyweight trident-wielding wizard in Smash.

View attachment 176309
The problem was he didn't have time for a unique newcomer. Ganondorf's Space Demo model fit a clone slot perfectly.

So it was Ganondorf or nothing.

I agree Ganon would've made more sense overall since he's the main form of the villain. Things didn't work out that way, though. Just it's not that simple for Melee. Brawl might've worked, but at that point Ganon no longer has viable designs to look at. OOT was the last plausible version for a while, so him being looked over is quite possible. He's barely depicted as bipedal nowadays. :/
 

Dalek_Kolt

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
3,557
Location
Skaro
If the selection for DLC was made by Nintendo, there's a chance that their character choices aren't too dissimilar to their other big crossover Nintendo Land.

And one of the main characters of that game was this guy.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,612
Location
Scotland
If the selection for DLC was made by Nintendo, there's a chance that their character choices aren't too dissimilar to their other big crossover Nintendo Land.

And one of the main characters of that game was this guy.
now if that was the ganon we got id die laughing
 

verysleepywolf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
367
3DS FC
3153-5879-7280
There are a million other Zelda characters I'd rather see than Ganon. It would be better than nothing though.
 

Porygon2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
225
Given the increased support this thread has been getting, I thought I might post this potential moveset. I make no claims of knowing balanced percentages/knockback, etc.; this is mostly just fun ideas of how his moves and playstyle might function:


Ganon

Flavor text: The Demon King Ganon is the true form of Ganondorf, appearing when the gerudo releases the might of his Triforce of Power. Ganon is the largest and heaviest character in Smash, but that doesn’t mean he’ll go down easy! Watch out for his massive damage, and the long range of his mighty trident. Also, while his walking and running speeds might be slow, his ability to teleport around the battlefield makes him more unpredictable than he seems.

General Playstyle: Ganon is a strange one. While you might think a demon in possession of the Triforce of Power would be a brawling brute, most of his battles in the source material have him teleporting around the battlefield and taking potshots at Link. Taking both of these personalities into account, Ganon in Smash plays best with careful spacing/retreating tactics, but keeps some tools that prevent him from becoming a helpless punching bag up close. Most of his moves benefit from stage control to maximize the hitboxes of his fist, projectiles, and his trident's sweetspot. Up close and mid-range, players will want to learn how to manage his grab spacing, superarmor frames, B and v-B charge storage, and the spacing of his dash attack and teleport.

The origin of Ganon's moves are shown next to the move name.


Misc/Gimmicks

Ganon has generous superarmor on his moves, and an ambient superarmor attribute akin to Bowser's "Tough Guy", "Triforce of Power". This prevents flinching from moves that deal less than 25 units of knockback, is increased when crouching in place, and is amplified further with his v-B.

Ganon is big, and so is his trident. Several of his moves have range comparable to Corrin and Simon/Richter.

Ganon blinks for his roll and spot dodge, making it impossible to see which option he is going for.

All trident moves have an electrified sweetspot at the tip. As well as dealing the most damage and knockback, the slight freeze frames give Ganon an additional opportunity for spacing. Trident attacks otherwise deal the second-best damage at Ganon's hands, and worst along the pole.


Neutral
  • Jab (misc): 2-hit combo with the trident – an underarm sweep to a two-handed overhead smash.
  • Rapid Jab (LttP): After the initial sweep, Ganon will whirl his trident overhead, smashing it downward on release.
  • Dash (Various): Ganon performs a shortened version of the pew-pew-pew staggered teleport that also features in his ^-B. This causes him to blink out of and back into existence 3 times as he moves forward some distance. This can be used to ‘pass through’ fighters if Ganon's hurtbox blinks ‘out’ while on top of them, or to damage them when blinking ‘in’. These hits take the form of dark energy around Ganon, akin to Metwo’s neutral aerial, though the hitbox is smaller, leaving him vulnerable from above.

Tilts
  • > (Various): A powerful trident poke with significant horizontal knockback at the tip.
  • v (Various/OoT): Ganon brings his fist downward in a ground-pound attack. Significant startup lag, with superarmor just before and during the slam. The hitbox on Ganon's fist deals electric damage and decent diagonal knockback, while a hitbox slightly in front of him has a chance to trip.
  • ^ (LBW): Ganon summons a multi-hitting pillar of dark energy on top of and directly above himself. Will scoop fighters upward at close range.

Aerials
  • n (Various): Ganon blinks in place (no special hit/hurtbox properties), causing dark damage. A decent getaway tool.
  • ^ (Various): Arcs his trident overhead. Fair juggling tool.
  • > (OoA/OoS): Ganon blinks (no special hit/hurtbox properties), sending a blinking mirror image of himself outward. Relatively quick space control tool.
  • < (OoT): Ganon sweeps his cape backward. Proper timing gives increased priority against projectiles.
  • v (misc): Ganon thrusts his trident downward, and plummets with it. Can be used to drag fighters down as a suicide KO, but only if the trident skewers at the sweetspot, which generally requires very precise spacing due to its length.

Smash Attacks
  • > (LBW): Ganon brings his trident inward to imbue it with dark energy, then thrusts it out. This is one of the most damaging smashes in the game, but has plenty of lag. While the attack is charged, there is a darkness hitbox on the trident with upward knockback (this generally won't combo into the main hit, however).
  • v (OoA/OoS): Ganon charges dark energy like a hadouken, then slams his palm on the ground. Large hitbox which buries at the fist.
  • ^ (FS): Ganon thrusts his trident upward, releasing a thunderbolt directly above him. Long, narrow hitbox with sweetspots at the tip of both the trident and the bolt. Slightly above Palutena ^-smash range, but it won't scoop upward.

Specials
  • B - Din's Dark Fire (LttP): Ganon twirls his trident overhead, causing a ring of bat-shaped fire projectiles to swirl around him in a circular formation. The ring expands outward, reaching a max range about half the length of Battlefield, then back in to Ganon, who cannot move during the animation. The bats deal little knockback, acting more as a keepaway/gimping/combo-ing tool. With precise timing, smaller characters can theoretically jump between the bats. End lag, but fast startup allows for things like sweetspot v-tilt into B.
This move also has a "charge". If the whole animation is completed, Ganon will flash, and B can be pressed again to unleash a swarm of fiery bats with high fire damage and mild homing properties. Ganon can move freely while the bats are "charged", though he cannot store the charge indefinitely, as it will wear off after some time.​
  • >-B - Trident Throw (FS): Ganon throws his trident like a boomerang. On flying, it strikes multiple times for high damage and minimal knockback, then zips back with a weak hitbox on its return. While the trident is flying outward, mashing B will cause Ganon to extend a palm and imbue the trident with blue fire, causing big damage when it hits. Ganon will remain in this prone state until the trident returns, however. Otherwise, Ganon can move as normal while the trident is out, though all of his grounded attacks/grab are replaced by a basic swiping palm move, and he cannot perform aerials.
The trident cannot be grabbed by other players, though it will clank with powerful hitboxes/projectiles, at which point it will poof back to Ganon.​
  • v-B - Darkness Technique (LttP): Holding the move will cause Ganon to raise his cape, which sends a shadow creeping up him. Charging functions similarly to Cloud's Limit, though it is faster, only charges manually, and "partial" charge will drain over time. At full charge, Ganon gains universal superarmor up to a certain damage % for a certain amount of time. This effectively buffs his "Triforce of Power" attribute, negating its relative uselessness at higher percentages, and giving Ganon a shot at late stock victory.
  • ^-B Teleport (misc/all): Ganon teleports with the blinking hit/hurtbox properties of his dash attack. Initial movement can start in 8 directions, with further slight influence over direction when Ganon is already moving. Holding the button moves Ganon further, with large max range. Starts up quick, with some end lag on release. Note Ganon can still be gimped from above and below when popping back "in". Ganon cannot act out of teleport and goes into freefall if he doesn't land on-stage.

Throws
  • Grab (LttP/FS/OoT): Ganon's grab takes the form of the magical crystal that he has a tendency to trap princesses in. This appears in front of Ganon in a manner similar to Greninja's grab, tying it for the best non-tether grab range, albeit with slightly more lag than a standard grab.
  • Pummel: Ganon shocks the trapped fighter with magic.
  • >: Ganon performs a force palm of dark energy that sends fighters back a good distance.
  • ^: Ganon levitates the fighter overhead before the crystal swells and explodes. Kill throw.
  • v: Ganon smashes the crystal downward, Sends at standard follow-up angle.
  • <: Ganon skewers the fighter with his trident and flings them overhead.

Final Smash

Couple of ideas:
  • Malice Incarnate (BoTW): Ganon teleports behind the stage similarly to the new Giga Bowser, and becomes consumed with malice before shooting a massive laser across the battlfield.
  • Dark World (LttP): Ganon creates a huge crystal that sucks fighters in, triggering a cutscene in which they are transformed into rabbits or monsters (depending on if they are a "good" or "evil" character). As they run around haplessly, Ganon looms behind and batters them with a big trident sweep.

Visuals

Though he holds it by default, Ganon's trident immediately disappears/reappears in a poof of dark magic for moves that would benefit from simpler animation, such as his v-smash.

When Ganon is KO’d (other than screen KO), a glowing triangle triforce piece pops out of his explosion (LoZ).

Colors: https://i.redd.it/gcnf9nu168811.png

Entrance (OoA/OoS/FS): Ganon breaks free of his seal, rising up from the ground.
  • ^-Taunt (LBW): Ganon raises a fist, displaying a glowing triforce piece.
  • >-Taunt (LoZ): Ganon strikes a vampiric pose with his cape, and laughs.
  • v-Taunt (misc): Ganon pounds his trident on the ground, causing a deep ringing sound.
  • Victory 1 (misc): Two moblins dance around Ganon, which he swipes aside to strike a pose.
  • Victory 2 (AoL): Ganon faces the screen dramatically as he is overcome with shadow, his eyes bright.
  • Victory 3 (misc): Back turned, Ganon twirls around dramatically, displaying a triforce piece that floats in his palm. If any of the Links and/or Zelda/Sheik was an opponent, he has two/three.
 
Top Bottom