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G3S Mafia #4 | Game over - Town wins!

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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His skill level doesn't excuse scummy behavior, and MB handwaving the entirety of my points against him, and cookie cutting them for him has only made my displeasure for Mb's slot grow, they pretty much tore town a perfect interaction sequence just because I was a little aggressive on the guy.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Notice how scary's now completely 180'd his read on me only after it was pointed out to him it had no basis, and that his gut feel on me only bothered him at the time because i put pressure on him, and not on that own posts merits.
 

#HBC | Scary

Hype Incarnate
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Your posting a lot about small notes but not really going into the deep end.

I want you to try and develop reads on players so I can read you, along with others.

For starts, what do you think of Rake, Zen, and Jory's single post?
I see. Alright I'll try to give it a whirl.

With Rake I just did not understand his reason for pressuring me as he did. It just felt like there was no rhyme or reason to the pressure. Also with the sheer amount of posting that he had been doing, I started to lean closer to active scum leading the town away from him. With his recent posts and explaining his intent, I'm in between null and town. I was the victim of the pressure, it makes sense.

Zen is kinda weird at the moment because I get the feeling that he wants to sway my vote and place it on Joey. Before I was ok with Zen but I'm remaining cautious.

No real read on Joey since he really has been inactive and I don't know his meta at all. Gonna go ahead and give him his time as well.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Plus, why should he want to join me in a push, when before he had no solid reads ? I understand sheeping but not just a short while ago i was hisw only scum read, but now he's perfectly accepting of me offering a hand of truce ? Witout any warriness or consideration to his supposed read ?

Really don't see why you guys think I'm being unfair, not only is his play worth questioning, but if he legit plans on sticking around then better he be exposed to what regular games involve. You act like we should hold this guys hand because he's only been around a short while, but i will absolutely put him through the fire if it means a accurate read on him and a win for town
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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He signed up for a regular game, he should understand most of the things that make up a game, including reading people, and how reactions effect reads. I dont know why you and Mb put so muchb stock in "hes a newbie", when i was a newbie, i never took any or got any slack in normal games, youy go in knowing its a different pace.
If he were a seasoned experienced mafia player, I'd vote him.

But he's not.

Experience and player base is something you have to consider when you look at players. Yes he signed fur a non newbie, but that doesn't mean he's not inexperience. You have to consider this because the goal is to lynch scum, not someone who is not playing on pad to expectations.

You don't treat me and Swiss the same, we was different on skill and style.
 

#HBC | Scary

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Yea, I must say this is completely different from a newbie game. The two I played sent very slow so this is intense lol. Hopefully will get more comfortable with this as it goes.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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If he were a seasoned experienced mafia player, I'd vote him.

But he's not.

Experience and player base is something you have to consider when you look at players. Yes he signed fur a non newbie, but that doesn't mean he's not inexperience. You have to consider this because the goal is to lynch scum, not someone who is not playing on pad to expectations.

You don't treat me and Swiss the same, we was different on skill and style.
Actually i treat you and Swiss almost the exact same way, i just posture more with swiss for effetc
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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I'm not saying you don't have a fair point Ryu, all I'm saying is i'm not going to totallly let this go until i determine that it is the dumber side or newer town side over newer scum. Call me callus but I'm not just gonna totally drop it until my own curiosity is satiated
 

#HBC | Scary

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Plus, why should he want to join me in a push, when before he had no solid reads ? I understand sheeping but not just a short while ago i was hisw only scum read, but now he's perfectly accepting of me offering a hand of truce ? Witout any warriness or consideration to his supposed read ?

Really don't see why you guys think I'm being unfair, not only is his play worth questioning, but if he legit plans on sticking around then better he be exposed to what regular games involve. You act like we should hold this guys hand because he's only been around a short while, but i will absolutely put him through the fire if it means a accurate read on him and a win for town
Honestly it's fair. In over my head a bit yes, but there certainly will be some learning pains.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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I'm also not trying to lynch him because he's new, I was trying to lynch him because I read it as scum intent.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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Plus, why should he want to join me in a push, when before he had no solid reads ? I understand sheeping but not just a short while ago i was hisw only scum read, but now he's perfectly accepting of me offering a hand of truce ? Witout any warriness or consideration to his supposed read ?

Really don't see why you guys think I'm being unfair, not only is his play worth questioning, but if he legit plans on sticking around then better he be exposed to what regular games involve. You act like we should hold this guys hand because he's only been around a short while, but i will absolutely put him through the fire if it means a accurate read on him and a win for town
It's not that I think your being unfair, it's that your not taking into consideration his skill which does matter to his reactions.

Read any first games fur me like Dextr, broken set-up but I got lynched day 1, I reacted like **** to pressure but got lynched. Players didn't considers my skill level when Kyz did outside the game and told people that they did it wrong.

It matters.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Honestly it's fair. In over my head a bit yes, but there certainly will be some learning pains.
Don't worry to much, if your actually town never worry about how hard people push you or how they do it, just defend yourself with the truth and your own feels and thats the best you can do.

Don't let yourself get wrapped up when under pressure, and always ask yourself why. Why did MB defend you for instance ? What does he gain or lose on you ? What does he gain or lose on me ? What was his intention ?.

You must discern intent behind actions, that is how you find mafia imo
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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It's not that I think your being unfair, it's that your not taking into consideration his skill which does matter to his reactions.

Read any first games fur me like Dextr, broken set-up but I got lynched day 1, I reacted like **** to pressure but got lynched. Players didn't considers my skill level when Kyz did outside the game and told people that they did it wrong.

It matters.
Like I said, all fair points, I've stepped off the gas pedal but I still intend to drive the car to it's completion.

talk to me about mb, his defence of Scary seem legit to you ? It bugged me tbh
 

#HBC | Scary

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Got it.

With that, heading to sleep and going to reread in the morning. I need to go over MB posts to try and make a better read on him and essentially everyone else.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Like I said, all fair points, I've stepped off the gas pedal but I still intend to drive the car to it's completion.

talk to me about mb, his defence of Scary seem legit to you ? It bugged me tbh
The defense is legit but it's arm chair critic.

That is why I am bugged out myself.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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See i thought it was really distant, like a slap on the wrists, like : hey, hey you...don't.

ya know ? involved but not invested
 

Xivii

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What do you mean you "get the feeling I'm trying to sway your vote"? of course I am.

why the heck is this day still going when Joey should have been lynched an hour ago?
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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Pretty sure I'm not scum lol.

I posted that at the time so that when I got back, I'd be able to answer questions that were asked of me after a full read-through of the game. Seems pretty common sense to me.

I tried reading through posts during rehearsal, but I was totally oblivious of there being more than two pages, so I kind of stopped reading after I got to the bottom of page two, and even then, it wasn't getting too into it because I was more focused on rehearsal to make sure that I came in on time. Probably won't try that again lol.

Zen, if you're going to be a prick to me throughout this game due to putting a warning out there in case I were to disappear for a day, then I'll gladly replace out. I'm not willing to deal with your bull**** for stuff that is hardly related to the game on top of the amount of ensembles I have and all of the bull**** I have going on mentally. If you're going to try to say "If you're going to tackle this game after you go get food, then why are you posting this now heh? You're not coming back, admit it. This is a lie." when I'm trying my ****ing best to commit to a game that I signed up for and couldn't get out of in time, then **** you and **** everything that you stand for. **** off. hehehehehehehheheheheheheh so funni haha no screw off. I didn't join the game just for you to insult me when I post a warning in case I were to not be able to post one night (especially for a cause that I wasn't aware of prior to joining).

Starting my read now.

Zen, you didn't "town slip" because the scum role pm listed in the op doesn't say anything about what role your partner were to have if you were to get a mafia role. 100% null tell. Moving on.

Magic Bounce's reaction to Zen trying to gain town cred was pretty cool. Way to call him out on that. I like how logical he's being with the approach on that post. Bravo.

The fact that Red Ryu went into Magic Bounce's response like that doesn't really surprise me at all actually. Seems like standard Ryu to me. Yay :D

Is there something going on between Kantrip and Rake? Kantrip's 65 where he talks to Rake seems very weird if there is no previous context to it outside of game. ._.

Kantrip's reasoning on MB... First statement is total ****. Second statement is eh. You replace the word "off-put" with "bothered" and suddenly it doesn't sound nearly as bad (imo at least). Attacking word choice instead of the main point behind a post seems kind of silly. It's pretty obvious that he was pretty annoyed with what Zen was trying to do, especially after stating it was a null tell. It was obvious that he wasn't going to use that as pressure against him, so eh. Third statement is actually understandable, but when you consider the fact that he was probably just annoyed with the approach Zen took, it doesn't really come across as scummy. I don't get why he said it was probably zen as town after calling it a null tell. Good question to ask though. I'll ask if the slot hasn't answered already. Not really liking Kantrip based on a majority of this reasoning and the whole Kantrip and Rake thing.

After reading one of Rake's posts, I thought of something further regarding Zen and MB. Why would MB go after Zen if they were fishing for town cred? Shutting down Zen does not show ANYTHING. It's just something that you'd comment on if you were annoyed by the fact that he's trying to fish for town cred from very (VERY) poor logic. :|

Scary's reaction lmao. Too good.

While I don't really agree with his logic, his 132 seems really genuine in general.

135 and 137 point out really strong things about Xatres. Kantrip going in depth with his thought process instead of just agreeing with Zen and throwing a vote on Xatres is pretty cool.

139. Welp. If that is the way that Xatres plays in general, then I'm definitely not going to scum read him for that alone. He has been answering questions, so I could see where he feels that he's part of the discussion. Null tell.

Kantrip vs Xatres is basically Kantrip pushing on meta and Xatres defending with his own meta. Doesn't really seem to have much to do with the game itself or how he's actually playing. :|

Rake, I thought you'd explain, but why are you being such a moron this game? It's like you're not doing anything except getting butt devastated when people won't follow your pointless and completely idiotic wagon. What on earth did Scary do to make you want him dead that badly?

All of Xatres' play seems really genuine from what I've read so far. Holy crap. Not sure how you could scum read him unless he does something crazy later on.

Rake what on earth. "Check his reply to see why he's scum" If you were literally doing nothing except calling me scum for no reason, then I'd think you were playing scummy as well. Nothing is wrong on Scary's part so far. Do you really think town that isn't used to playing with us would just sit there and be like "Yup. This is all null. There is no way this could mean anything"? No. He's going to get flustered, and he's probably going to backlash at you. It's null. Move on. I would like to see why Scary tried to justify his Rake vote as anything more than a "Rake is being a moron and doing absolutely nothing except pushing me" type of thing.

202... What. Whaaaat. Xatres why? Why would you even say that? That doesn't even help with anything at all. There are actually people out there that actually think about what they post before they post it. In both factions. What was the point of this post?

204 MB beat me to it. Darn. He's really right though. Get over yourself Rake please.

207 He probably hasn't played with dgames too much. Different places play in different ways. If he were to be aware that OMGUS was bad here, yet was from a community where it was standard (or played in a time-frame where it was standard), then suddenly every single thing you've said about him is complete and total **** and suddenly you're 100% useless to the game. This push is crap. Find something new to push or get off the wagon and actually be useful.

212 Why would I throw a vote down? You should know that I'm not super aggressive with my votes, and even then, I have no reason to throw a vote down when I haven't even posted yet (especially considering the fact that I didn't realize that there were more than two pages at the time). :v

214 What newb scum tells did he drop? OMGUS? With how hard you're tunneling, it's null. Try again please. His first reaction was hilarious. It just seemed like a silly way of saying why. But then your **** push happened. What on earth are you expecting? Seriously? Vig please off this guy.

216 confirms everything I've said. He's OMGUS'ing because you're playing like a ****ing moron. Null tell. Move on.

Xatres, where did your scum read on Scary come from, and why on earth are you going in so hard with all of these crappy posts that basically say "I scum read Scary" in many different ways? From what I recall (I may have missed it), you haven't stated anything about not liking scary until 202, and that post was total ****. Please tell me if I missed a post.

Zen wants me dead because I haven't posted within the first day of the game starting. I suddenly don't care about his push on me at all. Shocking.

"Classic newb scum tell, trying to come in and joke off baseless pressure to appear townie" can easily be "Classic newbie play, wondering why in the hell a third of the lynch is on him before he even got into the game", and literally everything after that is you being a complete moron and **** to scary and him getting upset because you're literally doing nothing worthwhile except pushing him. Do you REALLY expect him to just ignore you when you're almost a fifth of the thread and you're just saying "he's scum" and "join my wagon" over and over? Do you REALLY expect him to not think you're scummy when this is all that you're doing? Please. Get over this case. Find some decent reasoning behind your push please. Please start to have some common sense. Please. Please please please please.

245 this is going to be another game of waiting for another Marshy hydra to actually become serious. :|

254 summarized everything regarding Rake and Scary way better than I could.

Sokr going in on Xatres for his crap post. Woo!

Does Xatres even scum read Scary or is it just a joke? I can't even tell at this point. This is literally the third post where he just says "He's scum'" in a different fashion. I'm starting to think that it's just a joke.

284 is me in a nutshell except I'm null on Zen and town reading MB. Throw Sokr in the town leans and Ryu in the town leans and you have my read list so far.

Sokr then jumped on Scary. Whyyyyy?!

Rake jumps on Sokr. Scary wagon 2.0 a go-go?

Why would you just say it's a pressure wagon when Sokr literally hasn't even gotten to respond yet? Why are you using that to convince people? I don't even, Rake. Literally scary wagon 2.0

Ryu a little late with the whole rake v scary thing, but he tends to do that. I'm really liking Ryu this game holy crap.

Rake, you're just being ignorant here. There is nothing in the OP that states "You must know x and y before joining a game", and even then, it's no guarantee that he would know everything. You're pushing off of assumptions and it's disgusting. Why are you still on this? I understand that you were asked about it, but please just say that it was stupid of you and move on. It's absolutely horrid. :|.

Rake pretty much just voted Sokr and continued to pressure Scary. Really? You got me excited for nothing </3. Was excited to see something interesting from you on a push that isn't Scary.

I guess I'm done. Wow.

Town reads: Ryu, MB, myself lul
Town leans: Sokr
Scum leans: Kantrip (very slight), Xatres, Rake

Everyone else is null.

Vote: Rake

Throwing my vote here is pretty obvious at this point. Your Scary wagon was ****, and your whole "vote Sokr with me for pressure! :D" was even worse, and the worst of it all? Right after throwing your vote on Sokr and asking for more votes on him, you don't even pressure Sokr. You just talk about Scary being scummy some more (after asking him to join your wagon and asking to alliance with him). Yeah. I can not see ANY town intent in this whatsoever. Literally none.
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
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Joey I don't find your real life stuff scummy. I only did the "you lie you aint comin back" stuff as safe measure to make sure that you did in fact follow up on your promise. What I do find scummy was you asking if anyone had any questions for you before you even read through the game :facepalm:. IDK why you and Ruy are trying to turn what I think is scummy about you is your activity. Activity Johns have nothing to do with it. There was no reason for you to ask that question without reading the game, for the reason I already said for one. For two because you could have been asked questions already within those 6 pages. Why ask without looking first to see if there are already questions there? (Rhetorical). And for three what kind of town player asks others if they have questions for him? There's no town intent in that. Pure scum intent. (That intent being to look townie).

Joey said:
Yeah. I can not see ANY town intent in this whatsoever. Literally none.
If you cannot see any town intent from Rake then you're not being very objective. Rake is such an easy scapegoat for you to semi-push. Come on man, find us some scum. Your post just went through and described every post, it does nothing to bring us closer to finding scum. It's just lot's of empty words.
 

Xivii

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Sokr what did you like about Rake's case? He didn't really make a case. All he did was quote everything that happened (him calling scary scum) and called it a case. There was like nothing to "like" about it ~.^?
 

Kantrip

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@Scary: That's twice today I've seen you viewing the thread for like 20 minutes straight after Rake put pressure on you. Stop posting in your QT and start posting here.
You've been doing a lot of this pressuring Scary and alluding to him conversing with scummates. What's your read on him now, after all that?
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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What I do find scummy was you asking if anyone had any questions for you before you even read through the game :facepalm:.
I agree here.

IDK why you and Ruy are trying to turn what I think is scummy about you is your activity. Activity Johns have nothing to do with it.
Depends, Joey can be flimsy with activity.

There was no reason for you to ask that question without reading the game, for the reason I already said for one. For two because you could have been asked questions already within those 6 pages. Why ask without looking first to see if there are already questions there? (Rhetorical). And for three what kind of town player asks others if they have questions for him? There's no town intent in that. Pure scum intent. (That intent being to look townie).
Still agree somewhat.

The way Joey worded it looks bad on a surface level but trying to read into if what is happening on his side is what I want to know.

Reading into what he posted, I think it's possible he wanted to help and answer stuff if people had questions for him. Potentially, the fact he didn't ost before then makes it look worse, but not something I think is a sure fire tell. At least not now.

Good news though.

Joey=/=Zen.

Not with that kind of reaction.

If you cannot see any town intent from Rake then you're not being very objective. Rake is such an easy scapegoat for you to semi-push. Come on man, find us some scum. Your post just went through and described every post, it does nothing to bring us closer to finding scum. It's just lot's of empty words.
It's not, at all. Well the whole lot of nothing part. The Rake part is interesting on how Joey handled it.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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Mafia
Mafia lean
Traitor
Town
Town Lean

1. Zen
2. frozenmarsh751 (frozenflame751/marshy hydra)
3. WL/Raz
4. -Masquerain-* <- thinking on this would town lean otherwise
5. Red Ruy
6. Kafkaesque (Sworddancer./th3kuzinator)
7. Rake
8. Potassium
9. Scary
10. Xatres
11. Sokr

Goodnight.
 

Kantrip

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kantrip: you are the sokr master, right ? is he town ?
The only thing that gives me pause from answering a solid yes is his reaction to me asking if he is my town bro this game. He quotes that and responds all relieved that we won't have to go against each other. I figured he townread me from something so I asked about it and all he could give me was just a simple "you're trying to find scum, it's all of your posts I like." I felt like the relief was at me calling him town, and not at me being town.

That said though, everything else is solid from him and his diction points towards Sokr town. I doubt he's learned to tailor his speech to me, I usually find it pretty obvious when he's nervous. I'm pretty sure he is town still
 

frozenmarsh751

frozenflame751|marshy
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I'm not one to interrupt but...what the **** is up with that last question Potato? Like Joey's last post is suppose to be the least bit town?

What the **** is wrong with mother****ers these days. No wonder why garbageass mother****ers like Overswarm win over y'all; verbosity + effort = Town. ****'s sake, such an ass backwards mentality.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Anomandaris_Rake [2] - Sokr, Masquerain
Xatres [2] - Xatres, Red Ryu
frozenmarsh751 [1] - Potassium
Sokr [1] - Anomandaris_Rake
Masquerain [2] - Zen, frozenmarsh751

Not voting [3] - Magic Bounce, Kafkaesque, ScaryLB59;

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

:059:
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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Show me Rake town intent before you call hima scapegoat. Saying that I'm not looking at it objectively is nothing but a cop out.
 

Xatres

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Well, since my wagon is clearly going nowhere.

Unvote

Since the situation has now passed, I will explain my reasoning for throwing extra pressure on Scary and why I currently have a town-lean on Rake. (OMG, Xatres providing reads. <3 <3 <3 )

Rake's intent in applying pressure to the newbie was pretty clear to me from the get-go. He wanted to bait reactions from Scary and other players. Scary outed himself as a newbie, which made him the perfect target for early game pressure. If he was scum, he was more likely to slip and reveal something. If he was town, then putting pressure on him would be a great way to bait reactions from other players as the pressure mounted. I saw exactly what Rake was doing and decided to join in. I did in an intentionally over the top manner, because I wanted to see how Scary would react to having TWO players against him and how others would react to my actions.

I think Rake has a point about Scary dropping about a dozen newbie scumtells during their interactions and about his play now feeling coached by scummates. At the same time, MB's point about newbies playing like newbies is a valid argument as well. Rake is right that we should be looking at the intent of objections and not just the logic behind the objections themselves. Motive is a big point on the "finding murderers" checklist.

The benefit to town from this entire interaction is that it has baited interactions and connections between multiple different players, including everyone who had commented, not commented, voted, complained, or remained mostly silent. Rake's decision to pressure the newbie was a good one that had clear foresight behind it. Because of this, I give Rake a town-lean. While he certainly could have made these same moves as scum (let's keep the wifom out of it), I think the net benefit to town makes him look more town than scum at this point.
 

Xatres

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On an unrelated note, I know nothing about Frozenmarsh meta, but does this hydra routinely provide 0 content, throw votes with no reasoning, and then flip and swear at people?

Vote: Frozenmarsh

I'd like some actually contribution, if you please.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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On an unrelated note, I know nothing about Frozenmarsh meta, but does this hydra routinely provide 0 content, throw votes with no reasoning, and then flip and swear at people?

Vote: Frozenmarsh

I'd like some actually contribution, if you please.
Do you know of Marshy's or Frozenflame's?
 
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