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G3S Mafia #4 | Game over - Town wins!

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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Show me Rake town intent before you call hima scapegoat. Saying that I'm not looking at it objectively is nothing but a cop out.
Joey, I want what your mind set was in the first post you made and why you asked what you asked, ignore anyone else just answer to me.
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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To be 100% honest, I didn't expect myself to go through every post the way that I did, and I thought there would be more content in general. Questions would have given me a start on major events, but considering that so little has really happened in these pages, asking for questions does seem pointless since there are so few major events. Didn't expect so many crappy posts from Rake/Zen ******** about inactives/Scary.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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To be 100% honest, I didn't expect myself to go through every post the way that I did, and I thought there would be more content in general. Questions would have given me a start on major events, but considering that so little has really happened in these pages, asking for questions does seem pointless since there are so few major events. Didn't expect so many crappy posts from Rake/Zen *****ing about inactives/Scary.
Your sort of admitting what you did was pointless.

This doesn't tell me your mindset, per say, more so if you think that, then what were you thinking when you asked, "ask me any questions?" before you viewed the thread?
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
3,897
Joey you silly goose if I was scum i would've kept on Scary much longer. I wouldn't drop him in favour of other pushes because it'd draw unwanted attention to me which is what I absolutely hate as scum.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
3,897
Also, everything Xat said wrt my intent as he perceived it, was spot on. My pressure was meant for more than it appeared, but I'm not going to spell that out. It ruins the point of it, to get reactions and such.

You may call it moronic play, but the fact of the matter is it achieved what it needed to, and in fact my play was rather ingenious because it forced a locus of eyes to myself and scary. If you want real moronically centered play, you should look to your own inability to read the intent behind my actions.

As well, I find it highly ironic and almost comical that you get on Zen for being unfair and mean or whatever else, but then you proceed to mudsling me because you don't like the way I do things.
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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Your sort of admitting what you did was pointless.

This doesn't tell me your mindset, per say, more so if you think that, then what were you thinking when you asked, "ask me any questions?" before you viewed the thread?
myself said:
To be 100% honest, I didn't expect myself to go through every post the way that I did, and I thought there would be more content in general. Questions would have given me a start on major events, but considering that so little has really happened in these pages, asking for questions does seem pointless since there are so few major events. Didn't expect so many crappy posts from Rake/Zen *****ing about inactives/Scary
I was expecting there to be more content, which would mean that I wouldn't have time to go into everything fully, so questions would help me hit the major points. I pretty much stated that already.

#358, now what?
That's perfectly fine and everything until he drops the vote, moves onto Sokr, asks for Scary to join him, and then goes straight back onto Scary while he's voting Sokr. Why on earth would he do that? There is no townie reason to half-ass pressure Sokr while trying to pressure Scary more, and anything he's done past the

Joey you silly goose if I was scum i would've kept on Scary much longer. I wouldn't drop him in favour of other pushes because it'd draw unwanted attention to me which is what I absolutely hate as scum.
You didn't drop him. You're still talking about him, and even then, continuing with the push would have given you the exact same reaction from people (myself and MB for examples). Nice self-meta btw. Totally assuming that I care about it.

Also, everything Xat said wrt my intent as he perceived it, was spot on. My pressure was meant for more than it appeared, but I'm not going to spell that out. It ruins the point of it, to get reactions and such.

You may call it moronic play, but the fact of the matter is it achieved what it needed to, and in fact my play was rather ingenious because it forced a locus of eyes to myself and scary. If you want real moronically centered play, you should look to your own inability to read the intent behind my actions.

As well, I find it highly ironic and almost comical that you get on Zen for being unfair and mean or whatever else, but then you proceed to mudsling me because you don't like the way I do things.
Zen was personally attacking me based on my history of playing (that's how it was perceived at the time(and still is, honestly)). You're playing like a moron. Completely different.

Of course you think it's spot on. Common sense says you're trying to pressure. It was completely ****ty, and the only things you're getting from it are BS'd reads on people like MB because they call you out on your ****ty pressure, along with a read on a newbie for doing standard newbie (not newb-scum, just newbie) things. Everything you've "accomplished" is pretty much null and pointless to anyone that actually thinks through the situation itself and realizes that Scary isn't scummy for reacting the way that he did. Of course when you remove your vote he's going to think differently of you and actually try to review the game. Standard newbie play.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
3,897
Pretty sure I'm not scum lol.
Raised eyebrow.jpg

Rake, I thought you'd explain, but why are you being such a moron this game? It's like you're not doing anything except getting butt devastated when people won't follow your pointless and completely idiotic wagon. What on earth did Scary do to make you want him dead that badly?
It wasn't moronic, it had very legitimate reasoning, I pushed to pressure him, and get a reaction out of him and the rest of the players.

I made a semi stretchy case, with things that I had taken as scummy and pushed him on it, but now because player's like you and MB have decided to interfere and ruin the interaction between Scary and myself, I'm forced to find other methods of reading him. You want town intent ? How about : Based on scay's reactions, being a new player, it'd be really obvious really fast where his alignment's lay, and we could either not have to worry about him for the rest of the game, or have to deal with him. But please, use less brain function to not consider this angle, explaining it to you is exactly what I want to be doing right now.

Rake what on earth. "Check his reply to see why he's scum" If you were literally doing nothing except calling me scum for no reason, then I'd think you were playing scummy as well. Nothing is wrong on Scary's part so far. Do you really think town that isn't used to playing with us would just sit there and be like "Yup. This is all null. There is no way this could mean anything"? No. He's going to get flustered, and he's probably going to backlash at you. It's null. Move on. I would like to see why Scary tried to justify his Rake vote as anything more than a "Rake is being a moron and doing absolutely nothing except pushing me" type of thing.
I didn't say reply, I said reaction, and his backlash I didn't perceive to be very townie, I understand a newer player may backlash, but scary CHOSE to scum read me for my actions on him, instead of doing something as simple as keep pressing me to why, or calling my reasoning bs, but he didn't, he chose to insta scum read me in return.

Why should me being a "moron" make me scummy ? You'll notice he could never explain that when asked, his entire scum read on me was fabricated BECAUSE i called him scum, not because of what I was doing, both me Kantrip and Zen all pressed him to make the distinction of why my logic was bad, or what made me scum for it, and he never could. Why ? Because he had no reason except that I had called him scum. This is classic OMGUS and much above the level of newbie OMGUS.


214 What newb scum tells did he drop? OMGUS? With how hard you're tunneling, it's null. Try again please. His first reaction was hilarious. It just seemed like a silly way of saying why. But then your **** push happened. What on earth are you expecting? Seriously? Vig please off this guy.
No, it's not null, because clearly you don't understand the differentiation between him OMGUSing me, and his INTENT to OMGUS me

"Classic newb scum tell, trying to come in and joke off baseless pressure to appear townie" can easily be "Classic newbie play, wondering why in the hell a third of the lynch is on him before he even got into the game", and literally everything after that is you being a complete moron and **** to scary and him getting upset because you're literally doing nothing worthwhile except pushing him. Do you REALLY expect him to just ignore you when you're almost a fifth of the thread and you're just saying "he's scum" and "join my wagon" over and over? Do you REALLY expect him to not think you're scummy when this is all that you're doing? Please. Get over this case. Find some decent reasoning behind your push please. Please start to have some common sense. Please. Please please please please.
Really love every slot making excuses for Scary instead of letting him respond himself.

No, i don't expect him to ignore me, but I do expect he'd actually have you know, more than "Your being a moron"

Why is that scummy ? I'll even tell you the answer, it's not, in any way, scummy for how I approached him.

284 is me in a nutshell except I'm null on Zen and town reading MB. Throw Sokr in the town leans and Ryu in the town leans and you have my read list so far.
Why do you town read MB at all ?

Rake jumps on Sokr. Scary wagon 2.0 a go-go?
No, this one's actually more legitimate in nature, Sokr's dropping a couple scum tells I remember from Rajam's FF mafia, and I didn't like his transition to scary much either.

Why would you just say it's a pressure wagon when Sokr literally hasn't even gotten to respond yet? Why are you using that to convince people? I don't even, Rake. Literally scary wagon 2.0
Saying it's pressure doesn't ruin the pressure, I also held my cards closer to the chest on what I was pressuring on to gauge interest , but now I've had to spell it out to you.

Plus, i never said it was only pressure, I only stated that to gauge the response to it, again, I was trying to hold some of the real reasoning back, but it can be more public now I suppose

Rake, you're just being ignorant here. There is nothing in the OP that states "You must know x and y before joining a game", and even then, it's no guarantee that he would know everything. You're pushing off of assumptions and it's disgusting. Why are you still on this? I understand that you were asked about it, but please just say that it was stupid of you and move on. It's absolutely horrid. :|.
I expect him to know how to play mafia, that is noit unfair of me, newbies may not totally prepare you for the game but they certainly teach you basics. I assumed only that he had played mafia, nothing else. It wasn't stupid, it achieved almost exactly what I wanted it to, sadly before it could climax, MB had to interfere.

Rake pretty much just voted Sokr and continued to pressure Scary. Really? You got me excited for nothing </3. Was excited to see something interesting from you on a push that isn't Scary.
My pressure on Scary is passive nwo, it's much more of a IGMEOY, and in fact, I've almost completely dropped the scary scum line due to a newb town tell that I'll hold closer to my chest for now so that I may completely gauge Scary before writing him off as a non scummer.

You should be excited , the Sokr angle hold's much more legitimate water.

Vote: Rake

Throwing my vote here is pretty obvious at this point. Your Scary wagon was ****, and your whole "vote Sokr with me for pressure! :D" was even worse, and the worst of it all? Right after throwing your vote on Sokr and asking for more votes on him, you don't even pressure Sokr. You just talk about Scary being scummy some more (after asking him to join your wagon and asking to alliance with him). Yeah. I can not see ANY town intent in this whatsoever. Literally none.

Why is any of it scummy though. Your basically callling my play antitown without any differentiation as to why that play is scummy. Antitwon =/= scummy by any means.

The wagon was not ****, you just need to have intelligence to understand why I did it, thankfully player's like Xat aand myself can spell it out for the rest of you.

My continued pressure on Scary was to let him be aware that I'm still watching him, how he reacts to me and knowing this will be instrumental in my securing a read on him. People were stil asking about him, so I kept talking about what I disliked, he had been aa scum read of mine, why would I not lay out my POV to see what people think on it ? That would be idiotic of me in the first degree.

And yes, me and him have our alliance, why should that stop me from being wary ?

I had actually quite a lot of town intent in playing as I have, it just required thinking about it a little. I know swf town hates doing this, but I hold out hope that one day, people will use their brains when they play this.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I'm not one to interrupt but...what the **** is up with that last question Potato? Like Joey's last post is suppose to be the least bit town?

What the **** is wrong with mother****ers these days. No wonder why garbageass mother****ers like Overswarm win over y'all; verbosity + effort = Town. ****'s sake, such an *** backwards mentality.
Did I even say I thought it was townie? I haven't even read through the post all the way yet, and I was in no way trying to tell Zen that he should get off Joey. My question was not rhetorical, I actually wanted an answer.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
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Messages
3,897
I


You didn't drop him. You're still talking about him, and even then, continuing with the push would have given you the exact same reaction from people (myself and MB for examples). Nice self-meta btw. Totally assuming that I care about it.



Zen was personally attacking me based on my history of playing (that's how it was perceived at the time(and still is, honestly)). You're playing like a moron. Completely different.

Of course you think it's spot on. Common sense says you're trying to pressure. It was completely ****ty, and the only things you're getting from it are BS'd reads on people like MB because they call you out on your ****ty pressure, along with a read on a newbie for doing standard newbie (not newb-scum, just newbie) things. Everything you've "accomplished" is pretty much null and pointless to anyone that actually thinks through the situation itself and realizes that Scary isn't scummy for reacting the way that he did. Of course when you remove your vote he's going to think differently of you and actually try to review the game. Standard newbie play.
I've dropped him, he only keeps coming into my posts because other's keep asking about it.

Again, mudslinging, not very nice bubba.

Yes well, common sense failed you as my ulterior reasoning for my pressure was just as much a factor as was reading and pushing scary.

The reads are not BS. Why did MB need to interfere ? Why not let Scary handle it himself ? They white knight a slot , and their reasoning is just lucky in that he's newer to the game. They were not all just newbie things, some were in fact, scummy from my pov, which is why I laid out my mini case, and why I have to keep talking about it when people keep asking.
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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Goddammit.

I'm a moron.

I just realized you're not applying pressure to Sokr because he hasn't responded. ****ing hell.

Unvote

Your initial pressure was fine. I was thinking you were scummy because of how you just sat your vote on Sokr without pressuring him outside of the vote and just pressured Scary more for no reason. Makes sense when you consider the fact that Sokr hasn't responded and people are asking you about him. I'm still not a fan of 323 because I don't see why you would add that if you were just responding to people, but that alone doesn't really make you scummy.

I'm not sure how you're angry at MB for this. He's not whiteknighting. He's saying your push was crap, that what you're talking about is null on Scary, and he was probably afraid that you're going to misread him because of how you were generally responding to his neutral-newbie tells in the first place. I can not see scum MB from this in any way, shape, or form.

I'll go into more detail when I get back from food/class/rehearsals.
 

Sokr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
202
Sokr what did you like about Rake's case? He didn't really make a case. All he did was quote everything that happened (him calling scary scum) and called it a case. There was like nothing to "like" about it ~.^?
I could see what he was getting at and thought I'd help out by throwing in my support. I have no experience with reading newbie players and liked the approach Rake was taking. It was at this post:

I see. Alright I'll try to give it a whirl.

With Rake I just did not understand his reason for pressuring me as he did. It just felt like there was no rhyme or reason to the pressure. Also with the sheer amount of posting that he had been doing, I started to lean closer to active scum leading the town away from him. With his recent posts and explaining his intent, I'm in between null and town. I was the victim of the pressure, it makes sense.

Zen is kinda weird at the moment because I get the feeling that he wants to sway my vote and place it on Joey. Before I was ok with Zen but I'm remaining cautious.

No real read on Joey since he really has been inactive and I don't know his meta at all. Gonna go ahead and give him his time as well.
that my read on Scary changed. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see newb scum fabricating something like this.


Sokr, tell me what's wrong with Joey's last post.
Are you referencing #369? I don't think there was anything wrong with it. I disagree with his view on what Rake was doing but that's not telling. Unless he thought Scary was in actual danger of getting lynched, in which case I would say he might be going for townie points. But Scary wasn't, so I don't think so.
 

Sokr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
202
Wait, I still have a vote on Rake?

Unvote

Anyone know where Kafkaesque is?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Messages
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Location
B.C. Canada
Zen, you didn't "town slip" because the scum role pm listed in the op doesn't say anything about what role your partner were to have if you were to get a mafia role. 100% null tell. Moving on.
Huh? What are you trying to say here? This is an open setup with all the roles listed.

Magic Bounce's reaction to Zen trying to gain town cred was pretty cool. Way to call him out on that. I like how logical he's being with the approach on that post. Bravo.
Can you explain this? What was pretty cool about their reaction? Also I saw it as Zen joking around more than trying to gain town cred.

Is there something going on between Kantrip and Rake? Kantrip's 65 where he talks to Rake seems very weird if there is no previous context to it outside of game. ._.
Rake likes to brag that he can read me near-perfectly in every game we play. We've got a thing going on between us at this point that would make our girlfriend's jealous.

Kantrip's reasoning on MB... First statement is total ****. Second statement is eh. You replace the word "off-put" with "bothered" and suddenly it doesn't sound nearly as bad (imo at least). Attacking word choice instead of the main point behind a post seems kind of silly. It's pretty obvious that he was pretty annoyed with what Zen was trying to do, especially after stating it was a null tell. It was obvious that he wasn't going to use that as pressure against him, so eh. Third statement is actually understandable, but when you consider the fact that he was probably just annoyed with the approach Zen took, it doesn't really come across as scummy. I don't get why he said it was probably zen as town after calling it a null tell. Good question to ask though. I'll ask if the slot hasn't answered already. Not really liking Kantrip based on a majority of this reasoning and the whole Kantrip and Rake thing.
I disagree. You replace off-put with bothered and the meaning of the statement doesn't change. I wasn't attacking word choice, I was attacking the main point behind the post: I didn't think there was one. They were just complaining about Zen for the sake of it. It had no bearing on Zen's alignment and it was just there for the sake of saying "I don't like what Zen is doing" even though it's something Zen does ALL THE TIME as town. To conclude that it is largely null just shows that the post was a waste and could have gone unsaid.

After reading one of Rake's posts, I thought of something further regarding Zen and MB. Why would MB go after Zen if they were fishing for town cred? Shutting down Zen does not show ANYTHING. It's just something that you'd comment on if you were annoyed by the fact that he's trying to fish for town cred from very (VERY) poor logic. :|
This is actually a fair point. The only scum intent I can really think of is to discredit Zen's conclusions from the gambit but I feel like that's a stretch. There's really no point to posting what MB did as either alignment, making actual frustration more likely. I guess it's more of a null tell.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =​
I didn't like Joey's surface-level analysis of Rake's Scary pressure, not looking into intent at all nor realizing that it was pressure. Disagreeing with the scumread I understand, I myself think Scary is town. But what MB did in completely ruining the interaction by doing all of Scary's work for him is not okay. Yes, Rake had bad reasoning. Yes, Rake's case wasn't very good. But that doesn't give people a good excuse to point that stuff out before Scary gets a chance to respond to it. This is what really bugs me about MB.​
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
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Messages
3,897
Rake likes to brag that he can read me near-perfectly in every game we play. We've got a thing going on between us at this point that would make our girlfriend's jealous.




= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =​
I didn't like Joey's surface-level analysis of Rake's Scary pressure, not looking into intent at all nor realizing that it was pressure. Disagreeing with the scumread I understand, I myself think Scary is town. But what MB did in completely ruining the interaction by doing all of Scary's work for him is not okay. Yes, Rake had bad reasoning. Yes, Rake's case wasn't very good. But that doesn't give people a good excuse to point that stuff out before Scary gets a chance to respond to it. This is what really bugs me about MB.

Haven't been wrong yet though.

Hmmm, I think Joey's unvote was good though.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Disliked him at first, didn't really like his Rake push, but here's where my read changed:

[collapse=from notes]
-Joey #369 – I actually like this post though ughhh. He looks like he's getting a bit over-the-top mad and I don't agree with his conclusions but I do see why he thinks the way he does and that's a good sign? I really don't know with Joey, I've never seen so much content from him I don't know what to expect. Hesitant town read.


-Joey #375 – Suddenly an epiphany from Joey where he realizes what Rake was doing. Huh. He stands by his belief that MB was doing the right thing but at least now he sees where Rake was coming from. Do like that he had a change of heart. All his effort into saying he didn't like Rake is now wasted, really doubt he is scum at this point. Joey town.
[/collapse]
 

Xatres

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Sokr what did you like about Rake's case? He didn't really make a case. All he did was quote everything that happened (him calling scary scum) and called it a case. There was like nothing to "like" about it ~.^?
I could see what he was getting at and thought I'd help out by throwing in my support. I have no experience with reading newbie players and liked the approach Rake was taking. It was at this post:
Meanwhile, in the not-so-distant past...

Woah, where was this last game? It's different. He's scum.

Vote: Xatres

...

I actually like Rake's case, but he has that effect on me. And he didn't do that last game. Ugh, so much for not trusting him.

Ryu, talk to me. Out of Xatres, Scary and Rake: who do you want dead and why?

Wait, how many votes is Xatres at?

Unvote
Three questions...

1) If you liked Rake's case, why would you be bothered if I seemed to like it too?
2) If you understood what Rake was getting at (pressuring the newb for reactions), then why couldn't you tell I was doing the same?
3) Why vote and unvote in the same post?
 

Sokr

Smash Journeyman
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Sep 28, 2011
Messages
202
What is your read on him?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I think a slight scum lean. I feel like he hasn't been looking for scum at all, but that isn't really telling by itself. Hence the slight lean.

@Xatres:

1) I wasn't bothered that you liked it.
2) Because Rake's play seemed normal for him. Your... bluntness/joking attitude caught me by surprise.
3) I was joking. My pointing out that you were acting different was not a case against you.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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B.C. Canada
That's what I'm trying to figure out. I think a slight scum lean. I feel like he hasn't been looking for scum at all, but that isn't really telling by itself. Hence the slight lean.

@Xatres:

1) I wasn't bothered that you liked it.
2) Because Rake's play seemed normal for him. Your... bluntness/joking attitude caught me by surprise.
3) I was joking. My pointing out that you were acting different was not a case against you.
Okay this is the second time your read has hinged on that phrase with no substance behind your words.

Find some examples of me "looking for scum" that you liked that helped with your townread on me.
Find some examples of Joey "not looking for scum" that made you slightly scumread him.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Unvote

Yeah my vote is useless here. I'm going to sit down with my notes for a reread this evening and see if I can bring them all together to come up with a clear direction for the Day.
 

#HBC | Scary

Hype Incarnate
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Ok, my wireless card on my laptop is acting weird. Relegated to my phone for the time.

Hopefully can get it sorted out tonight because I don't want to fall behind.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
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Messages
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Europe
@mod: Has Kafkaesque been prodded?
Kafkaesque has not yet overstepped the 48 hour mark for prods.


Xatres [1] - Red Ryu
frozenmarsh751 [1] - Xatres
Sokr [2] - Anomandaris_Rake, Zen
Masquerain [1] - frozenmarsh751

Not voting [6] - Magic Bounce, Kafkaesque, ScaryLB59, Masquerain, Sokr, Potassium;


With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

:059:
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
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Kindgom of Science
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HBC
Joey what gives you your slight town read on Sokr?
Sokr if you were joke voting Xatres, then why did you ask how many votes he was at before unvoting, ie indicating that your vote was serious. An unserious vote doesn't warrant a serious unvote.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Mafia
Mafia lean
Traitor
Town
Town Lean

1. Zen
2. frozenmarsh751 (frozenflame751/marshy hydra)
3. WL/Raz
4. Joey
5. Red Ruy
6. Kafkaesque (Sworddancer./th3kuzinator)
7. Rake
8. Potassium
9. Scary
10. Xatres
11. sokr
 
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