Frame research: Yoshi's Parry

SheerMadness

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#1
I'm challenging anyone who delves into the world of melee frame data to figure out what the window is for Yoshi's parry. Heres a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGd_MPsAsvc

Now I play ssb64 Yoshi and parries are a huge part of my game. In ssb64 you have to hit shield within 3 frames OR the exact frame you are hit in order to parry. No more or no less. Examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEUW9cMOjhE

I parry at .58, 2:52, and 4:10.

Now in order to legitimately practice parries in melee I need to know what the frame window is. Any info would be greatly appreciated!
 

LLDL

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#4
No it isn't. You have to actually sheild to powersheild. He's trying to find the right moment to make his attack priority.
 
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#5
ycz13 (2 years ago) Show Hide
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This is actually a supershield, not just a powershield. If you hold down L or R for less than 3 frames, Yoshi becomes completely invincible for that duration of time.

Wow, I didn't know there's such thing
 

SheerMadness

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#6
The Yoshi melee boads on here call it a supershield for some reason. In ssb64 we just call it a parry.

It takes multiple frames for Yoshi to tuck into his shield animation and during that time Yoshi is invincible AND able to jump. Therefor if you time the opponents attack correctly you can completely absorb the attack and be able to jump, grab, or upsmash at the same time. You see the jumping and upsmashing example's in the fumi video. You see the jumping and grabbing parries in the 2nd video of me playing ssb64.
 

Pi

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#8
sign my petition to ban yoshi
he has a playstyle we're not use to
it seems to be effective against our tried and true methods
therefore is broken

sign'd
 

AXE 09

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#11
during the first few frames of yoshi's block, he's totally invincible, which means that not even grabs will work on him him during this time =) yoshi's amazing lol
 
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#12
You guys think Yoshi is so cool.

Hello? Bowser has 3 frames of invincibility too! Pay attention to him!

Anyways, sometimes I see Yoshi fly super far from a shielded attack, is that supershield?
 

Magus420

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#16
Yoshi's Shield Stuff

-"Green" type invincibility is the same kind also used on respawn invincibility. You are hittable and they go into hitlag (also using up that hitbox against you), but you are completely unaffected by it and do not go into hitlag at all

-Yoshi does not receive any shieldstun from anything at all and can always roll/dodge/grab instantly after shield hitlag ends o_O


Guard On - (Normal Shield)
*You get this with a partial button press and not clicking the L/R button down all the way, when Z shielding, or by pressing/holding a digital click early (holding it down all the way during lag of another move will give you a normal shield when it pops up)

Total: 6
Shield is out: 1-6
Invincible (Green): 1-6
-Can change into GuardReflect on frame 2 (still 6 frames in total), so you can lightshield for 1 frame before getting the button clicked down all the way
-You lose your invincibility when switching from GuardOn to GuardReflect, and can be hit/grabbed for the rest of the animation
-NOT jump cancelable



Guard Reflect - (Power Shield)
*You get this with a full digital click on the L/R button, either when you press it and begin shielding on the 1st frame or on the 2nd frame of a normal shield

Total: 6
Shield is out: 3-6
Reflects: 1-2 (projectiles only)
Powershields: 3-4 (physical hits only)
Invincible (Green): 1-6 (no invincibility following a switch from normal GuardOn)
Jump Cancelable: 1-6
-Unlike other characters' shield drop/GuardOff animation following a physical hit powershield, Yoshi can not interrupt it with an A/B move or jump. He can still JC a projectile reflect though since he does not change animations and GuardReflect is JCable
-If you switch from GuardOn to GuardReflect, the shield/reflect area becomes a very small dot at Yoshi's center for the rest of the animation (seems like a glitch). Since you also lose your invincibility during the switch, you'll almost always get shieldstabbed by attacks during this time



Guard Off - (Shield Drop)

Total: 16
-Interruptible with a sidestep dodge 1-16

 

SheerMadness

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#18
I don't really know how to interpret any of that Magus, lol. Can you explain it a little better?

All I really want to know is how big of a frame window I have to parry with Yoshi is. The Yoshi boards say it takes 6 frames for Yoshi to tuck into his shield so I'm guessing its a 6 frame window. Can you verify this?

Anyone who doesn't understand what parries are should go here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263122

EDIT: You did answer 1 of my questions though. I've been practicing parrying against projectiles and I was wondering why sometimes I would reflect AND parry the projectile but other times I would just parry it. Haha a parry that can reflect a projectile, thats too good.
 

Magus420

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#19
It's a 2 frame window. The "Parry" is a result of the shield not coming out until frame 3 in the GuardReflect animation of putting the shield up, being invincible during that time, and the animation being JCable. If you get hit on 3 or later after the shield is out it will put you fully into your shield and would no longer be JCable.
 

SheerMadness

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#20
Thanks, thats what I wanted to know.

Wouldn't it be a 3 frame window though? Basically meaning you can parry a move up to 2 frames before being hit or the exact frame of being hit.

In ssb64 theres a 4 frame window. You can parry up to 3 frames before being hit or the exact frame.
 

Magus420

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#21
It's really more like a 2, 3, 4, or 5 window. It depends where the attack is hitting in the case of frames 3, 4, and 5 since the shield is out and if the shield gets hit you will block it instead of eating it with the invincibility. If it hits your invincible body without touching the shield on those frames it will work there as well. Eating a hitbox with the invincibility on the 6th frame in the animation won't work because on the following frame you're fully into the egg and can no longer JC.
 

SheerMadness

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#22
Jump Cancelable: 1-6
Ahh I'm still kinda confused. If you can JC out of GuardReflect frames 1-6 then wouldn't it be a 7 frame window?

edit: Do you have AIM? Itll prolly just be easier to discuss it with you there.
 

Magus420

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#23
No. That 6th frame is your last chance to jump. That leaves the possibility of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 for eating the hitbox. You can't eat the hit and jump on frame 6 or you're just going to get hit normally since you're just jumping and aren't invincible anymore.

It's at most a 5 frame window. In general it's going to be 2. If the attack is coming from behind it's almost always going to be 2. Attacks from the front that come out ontop of you are going to be 2. Well spaced and moving hitboxes from the front can get up to 5 since his head sticks out a decent amount beyond the shield range.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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#27
just to clarify: in order to parry and jump you must

1) press shield
2) get hit within 2 frames of pressing shield
3) press jump after getting hit but no more than 6 frames after pressing shield

could you use the 6th frame invincibility to take the hit and then not jump?
 

SheerMadness

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#28
just to clarify: in order to parry and jump you must

1) press shield
2) get hit within 2 frames of pressing shield
3) press jump after getting hit but no more than 6 frames after pressing shield
Nononononononono you're way mixed up.

In order to parry you must:

1). Hit shield + jump/grab/upsmash AT THE SAME TIME
2). Within approximately 3 frames of being hit.

Hope that helps.
 

SheerMadness

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#30
LOL........

Magus are you serious? I kinda figured you didn't really understand what I was saying this whole time.

I've been parrying for 3 years with Yoshi in ssb64. Watch the vid in the 1st post. I've been parrying with melee Yoshi all day against level 9's by doing it the exact same way I do it in ssb64.

That IS NOT the way you parry.

edit: aahhhh why can't i fall asleep.. Magus hit me up on AIM SheerMadness10 to better understand what a parry is.
 

SheerMadness

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#32
Says the guy who's probably never parried in his life?

You certainly can input them at the same time, but the game might prioritize one over the other. You're gonna confuse the hell out of people now. >=[
 

SheerMadness

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#34
Indeed mind trick. My fingers can't press them both down at exactly the same instant everytime, but its all in the same motion when I do it. That is the easiest method. He knows what I mean, hes just being difficult.

But pressing shield, waiting to get hit, then jumping is definitely not the way to parry.
 

SheerMadness

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#36
Truuu my bad. It just seems dumb that someone who probably didn't even know what a parry was before today is telling me I'm not doing it right when I've been doing it for 3 years lol. Anyway this is what Magus is decribing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEhmB2cTYs

Notice shield then jump. Then watch my two vids on the 1st page again. Shield doesn't come out, jump and shield is all one motion.
 

SheerMadness

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#38
If you input jump and shield at the same time, or as close as humaly possible to the same time 0-2 frames before being hit it will result in a parry. Go attempt in gameplay, you'll see for yourself.
 

SheerMadness

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#40
Well I press both the shield and jump BEFORE I'm hit. So you're telling me this is how the game prioritizes my inputs everytime I parry:

- Input shield and jump
- Game accepts shield input
- Game then waits 2-5 frames for character to get hit before accepting jump input

Doesn't make sense to me. I guess were playing different games then.
 
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