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Fox...pain...arg.
- Thread starter Chris II
- Start date
Elno1
Smash Apprentice
chain grab his ***. Turnips slow him down, if he catches ur turnips u should have enough time to hit him so basically the turnip is a distaction. Also do ur slaps it helps out a lot. 
According to RyokoYaksa, chaingrabbing fastfallers is impossible to get out of. You can chain a Fox up 'til 80-120% pretty safely. Is it cheap? Well, Fox has the infinites, why should we not have the chaingrab?
Chaingrab all the way!
Chaingrab all the way!
TiRune
Smash Ace
The only way you can win against a skilled fox is matching his speed to a certain extent. Although this might seem impossible with peach, it certainly is possible to chain attack after each other effectively, thus giving the fox less time to do something.
If peach defends against fox, shes pretty much dead (no, skilled foxes wont fall for any cced dsmash tricks >.>), you have to be just as aggressive and spam attacks just like the fox. Although you will have a slower attacking speed, your damage is higher and you have more priority. For the rest, just ***** the fox like every other char, learn to counter fox recovery (if hes off, he shouldnt be able to come back). learn how to chain grab him, learn how to space with dashdance and WD (this is where peach' speed lies in) and learn effective juggles and other comboes...
most thing is just practice though, you wont ever pwn any of the higher tierd chars without any experience (or a lot of xp) against them...
hope I made sense >.>
If peach defends against fox, shes pretty much dead (no, skilled foxes wont fall for any cced dsmash tricks >.>), you have to be just as aggressive and spam attacks just like the fox. Although you will have a slower attacking speed, your damage is higher and you have more priority. For the rest, just ***** the fox like every other char, learn to counter fox recovery (if hes off, he shouldnt be able to come back). learn how to chain grab him, learn how to space with dashdance and WD (this is where peach' speed lies in) and learn effective juggles and other comboes...
most thing is just practice though, you wont ever pwn any of the higher tierd chars without any experience (or a lot of xp) against them...
hope I made sense >.>
Osxcar
Smash Journeyman
It may not be fox, but what to you do about a SHL falco on FD? I was just playing one yesterday and he was owning my *** since he also was a bit of a turtle. Tried toad, but he just wouldn't get out in time and staying in the air wasn't much help.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
Haven't played a good falco in quite some time so I wont be of any help here But Fox and Falco are similar so these may work on him too.
In terms of chain grabbing, how are you starting it? Grab to up throw or down throw? I was practicing it a while ago, but have forgotten how to do it since then.
I have been vs'ing fox a lot lately and there are a couple things i have learned that have helped me. Use here double bi*ch slap to interupt him. Lots of times they will just run right into it, because they are used to people not being able to hit them in time.
When fox is coming back from the edge, use your down smash. It will interupt his airdash and his flaming dash. Ideally you want to levitate off the edge and butt-bump him clean off the screen, but at low percentages thats risky if he gets either airdash off.
When you are falling back to the ground, play mind games with him. Make him try to upsmash you so you have time to get back to the ground. Just stoping in mid air really confuses Fox. Also, air dodge, prefferable into the ground so you recover faster.
Finally, Peach seems to have grab priority or at least longer reach. Use that to your advantage, especially if you can chain grab.
These are some of my tactics and they seem to work pretty well.
But Fox and Falco are similar so these may work on him too.In terms of chain grabbing, how are you starting it? Grab to up throw or down throw? I was practicing it a while ago, but have forgotten how to do it since then.
I have been vs'ing fox a lot lately and there are a couple things i have learned that have helped me. Use here double bi*ch slap to interupt him. Lots of times they will just run right into it, because they are used to people not being able to hit them in time.
When fox is coming back from the edge, use your down smash. It will interupt his airdash and his flaming dash. Ideally you want to levitate off the edge and butt-bump him clean off the screen, but at low percentages thats risky if he gets either airdash off.
When you are falling back to the ground, play mind games with him. Make him try to upsmash you so you have time to get back to the ground. Just stoping in mid air really confuses Fox. Also, air dodge, prefferable into the ground so you recover faster.
Finally, Peach seems to have grab priority or at least longer reach. Use that to your advantage, especially if you can chain grab.
These are some of my tactics and they seem to work pretty well.
Against the Space animals and Captain Falcon, tilts do wonders since they fall so fast. Dtilt is your friend., You can basically pull off ANY move after a dtilt, be it a grab, a nair or an usmash.
Uthrow them like crazy. Even at 100+%, you can uthrow into uair and kill 'em off the top. Uthrow into nair works as well.
Against SHL, just bear with it. Powershield what you can, float above the SHL, dashattack, and most of all, chainthrow. Also, shield his DA and fsmash and jump out of the shield into a nair.
Dsmash to edgeguard works, but it depends on at which height htye're recovering.
You have 3 options: usmash. Try to sweetspot it and they die at ridiculously low %s.
Dsmash: If they're coming from below.
Fsmash: Get a tennis raquet or a golf club and they're as good as dead. After the initial animation of their up + b and forward + b, they'll fall too far and quickly if hit by Peach's fsmash to recover. Sometimes, edgehogging is necessary, but they're virtually dead once hit.
Uthrow them like crazy. Even at 100+%, you can uthrow into uair and kill 'em off the top. Uthrow into nair works as well.
Against SHL, just bear with it. Powershield what you can, float above the SHL, dashattack, and most of all, chainthrow. Also, shield his DA and fsmash and jump out of the shield into a nair.
Dsmash to edgeguard works, but it depends on at which height htye're recovering.
You have 3 options: usmash. Try to sweetspot it and they die at ridiculously low %s.
Dsmash: If they're coming from below.
Fsmash: Get a tennis raquet or a golf club and they're as good as dead. After the initial animation of their up + b and forward + b, they'll fall too far and quickly if hit by Peach's fsmash to recover. Sometimes, edgehogging is necessary, but they're virtually dead once hit.
Peach can effectively uthrow chain all 3 fastfallers. Mostly on FD since there won't be any platforms for them to land on.
Peach's dthrow can "chain" some characters on certain %s. Be careful, they can easily DI and nair her. Use it to surprise chain people. They expect the fthrow or bthrow but you pull a surprise dthrow, quickly turn around and grab them again.
You can also pull a surprise dthrow and then run after them when they tech and cc into a dsmash.
You can also pull a surprise dthrow and then run after them when they tech and cc into a dsmash.
The Cape
Smash Master
he successfully did it to me numerous times as falco. I had no choice but to take it. I couldn't DI away after all.
hmmmm...i never realized that peach could chainthrow fast fallers so well...and i call myself a peach player...>_<...i'll have to start doing that to my friend's fox...the problem i have with foxes is that i always get shine spiked when float cancelling back on...it kinda sucks...>_>...
Can somoene give me some tips on when to initiate my grab after throwing a fox upwards in order to successfuly grab him at percentages higher than 40%? I seem to do it either too early and miss or too late, i can't seem to do it with consistency to the point where taking the risk is worth it after 40%ish.
I'm at my g/f's and I didn't have time to read, she'll be back soon.
My input:
It depends HIGHLY on the fox player. Some foxe's have ground game -- if they do you should be able to own them very easily. Just FC a lot whoop him.
Foxes are dangerous when they go in the air. Drill kicks to whatever those stupid space things do to upsmash is too good.
The answer full jump a lot. Meet him in the air and catch him before he gets going and traps you in your shield.
Full jump into down air maybe or whatever you see fit. YOU HAVE TO BE OFFENSIVE. If you lie in wait he'll win.
Defensive for shiek, offensive for fox.
My input:
It depends HIGHLY on the fox player. Some foxe's have ground game -- if they do you should be able to own them very easily. Just FC a lot whoop him.
Foxes are dangerous when they go in the air. Drill kicks to whatever those stupid space things do to upsmash is too good.
The answer full jump a lot. Meet him in the air and catch him before he gets going and traps you in your shield.
Full jump into down air maybe or whatever you see fit. YOU HAVE TO BE OFFENSIVE. If you lie in wait he'll win.
Defensive for shiek, offensive for fox.
Mario's Cape
Smash Apprentice
You really want to piss off a fox player............Use your down c stick Double Edge. That'll give you the edge to any fox player if there not careful.
Remember: If the Fox is stupid enough not to DI the dsmash, dsmash again! And again and again and again. This goes for all chars who aren't floaty enough to be thrown off course on their own at low %s.
Uthrow into usmash/uair/nair and even dsmash work wonders even with DI (though the dsmash won't work very well then).
Peach, like all other characters, except the egg-spammer, can jump out of her shield. If Fox dashattacks or dairchains you, you can jump out of your shield. If he's dairing you and you nair, you'll have to sacrifice some damage, but you'll do about 14% damage on him! Way to go!
Why not just shieldgrab him when he dashattacks into your shield you ask? 1) Nair will sometimes send him off the stage. 2) Does more damage than the throws, except the 1st bthrow of the stock.
Uthrow into usmash/uair/nair and even dsmash work wonders even with DI (though the dsmash won't work very well then).
Peach, like all other characters, except the egg-spammer, can jump out of her shield. If Fox dashattacks or dairchains you, you can jump out of your shield. If he's dairing you and you nair, you'll have to sacrifice some damage, but you'll do about 14% damage on him! Way to go!
Why not just shieldgrab him when he dashattacks into your shield you ask? 1) Nair will sometimes send him off the stage. 2) Does more damage than the throws, except the 1st bthrow of the stock.
Mikey Lenetia
Smash Champion
There's also the fact that, if Fox is at chainthrow damage and you do happen to shieldgrab, go to town on him! ^_^
D
Deleted member
Guest
yeah man no joke. Ryoks was all like telling how Dave didn't wanna play him Falco vs Peach on FD and I didn't get it so I tried Falco and he chaingrabbed to to dtilts and parasol and upairs and man it was hel l. How the eff did I win that match anyway? I took at least double the damage he did with falco's recovery versus peach's....
80-100% is good. Download Ryoko vs. Any Fox for reference as to how to destroy foxes :D
Evil Peach
Smash Apprentice
a jumpy Fox who is extremely proficient in drillshine-usmash is a Peach bane. it's one of my worst matches.
No kidding! I switched to Sheik because of that, learning a hell of a lot about the game in the process. I haven't played Peach much as of late, but she is still my main and I am going to play with her much more in the near future.
I am at a loss as to what I should do to beat a really good fox. Like everyone else has said, you have to be offensive (which is generally not how I play my Peach). But, when ever I attack, the fox player either dashes backwards and then back at me, taking advantage of my attacks recovery time or wave dashes backwards then attacks/grabs me.
When I try to go air, he just jumps higher then me or up-airs me and I get owned.
Basically, I can't effectively attack on the ground or in the air and if I play defensively I am guaranteed to lose...
ARG!
I am at a loss as to what I should do to beat a really good fox. Like everyone else has said, you have to be offensive (which is generally not how I play my Peach). But, when ever I attack, the fox player either dashes backwards and then back at me, taking advantage of my attacks recovery time or wave dashes backwards then attacks/grabs me.
When I try to go air, he just jumps higher then me or up-airs me and I get owned.
Basically, I can't effectively attack on the ground or in the air and if I play defensively I am guaranteed to lose...
ARG!
exarch
doot doot doot
So what do you do vs a defensive fox? I realize that sounds like an oxymoron, but Peach can't chase down a fox that laserspams and runs. How do you approach? Its like fighting a totally different character.
Doval
Smash Lord
Take advantage of your edgeguarding and higher priority moves. If you can get him off and below the edge, he's as good as yours (easier said than done sometimes, lol.) I'd also like to point out that the skirt is easily teched at the edge but few people realize they can do this, so although rare, don't be surprised if someone doesn't die from it. Like everyone else said, chaingrabbing's also a choice if you're falling behind in stocks and/or Fox is doing infinites. Can't help you on the defensive Fox though. Float somewhat above ground laser level with Turnip in hand and play some mind games?. Can't think of much other than turnip throwing, sorry. I'm a Fox player by the way, not a Peach player. Peach tends to stop my assaults with her higher priority often (especially her air moves.) Hope that helped any.
unknown522
Some guy
peach D smashed my friend and made him go from 0% - 63% uncharged in 1 hit
KiraYamato
Smash Journeyman
That was because he was crouching. Its a bad idea to be crouching when peach does her down smash.unknown522 said:
yes Usmash is a pain but as for drillshine this usually doesnt bother me. I find it very easy when they start the drill and land, I instantly dodge in place which obviously dogdes the shine, then instantly use my Dsmash (or whatever else you wanna do).Evil Peach said:
all in all i hit fox above 20% and chain throw like crazy. After the first time, fox gets jumpy making it harder to do so i just revert back to my old mind game tactics
Touk
Smash Journeyman
What do you do against really skilled foxes? I mean I can chain throw them. I don't spam the D-Smash for the most part, I ledge guard pretty well, using D-air to N-airs on firefox's and shorthop or floatcancel'd aeries when they try to illusion back, I dash dance and WD. But I cannot seem to beat certain foxes. I read WIFE's message and tried some of that info out, but what do you do when someone is shffl'ing their aeriels?
exarch
doot doot doot
Shuffling aerials? that's an easy one.
Wavedash back Dsmash. Or against the Nair, CC dsmash.
I like it much better when fox shuffles.
Wavedash back Dsmash. Or against the Nair, CC dsmash.
I like it much better when fox shuffles.
Touk
Smash Journeyman
I tried that and It doesn't seem to work, they read it too well, they L cancel too well everytime and before I can even WD out of shield, I'm already grabbed.
mcc
Smash Ace
i don't think chaingrabs are comparable to fox's infinates skillwiseYuna said:
THE TRIXTER
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2006
- Messages
- 71
what i do is keep on chain grabing and the fininsh with a down+ a immediatly to sickly own a fox or maynoise them. (maynoise = sickly defeat) :ouch: :uzi: 
hainsaw: :rocket: :tnt: :laser: :burst: :bigrocket :teleportg :sniper: :enforcer: :smiliegor
hainsaw: :rocket: :tnt: :laser: :burst: :bigrocket :teleportg :sniper: :enforcer: :smiliegor
Wavedashing is key against Fox. He will often jump at you or use wavedashing. If you can outspace him and wavedash into a downsmash, you can really hurt his approach. This is hard to do against the REAL great fox players, but against good Fox players it's effective.
icy_icicle
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2005
- Messages
- 378
What about this whole drill shine waveshine upsmash thing? I can't get out of it...and avoiding it is hard. If I go into the air...he stays below and uairs me. If I go on the ground, I get waveshined for 20 damage, and then upsmashed. I can't get out of it, because DI doesn't seem to do anything against waveshine, except for CC. I don't have time to FC because he runs at me with the combo or uair. Not to mention the SHFFL'd bairs and nairs. I'll have a few very recent vids about this soon...maybe it'll be eaiser to help then.
exarch
doot doot doot
Against the waveshine, there are two effective ways to DI: doublestick/smash DI away, and CC DI (you were one for 2-not bad). In order to get out, you have to mix up these two DI's... yeah mindgame your DI. If you do it right, he wont be able to react to your DI, and he mess up his waveshine.
Yes uair does beat everything if he spaces well, but if he doesn't (which he probably doesn't) you can trade with the first hit of the uair with nair or bair. If he's coming at you and you're in the air, you might as well throw one out. Maybe he'll screw up.
FCing, you could try nairing before he gets to you. It's as fast as most character's jabs, so if you see him coming at you then nair/bair. Retreating fair (Ganon tactic hah) can catch him out of his uair if you do it right. Mix up your Float hieghts too and he'll have trouble hitting you every time.
Shuffled bairs and nairs are good. Unless you're being comboed by them. If he approaches with Shuffled bairs or nairs (probably not bair) you can wavedash back and dsmash them. If you're being comboed by them, you can DI away or try to nair out. Neither should work though.
The vids will definitely help though, i can give you more specific help then.
Yes uair does beat everything if he spaces well, but if he doesn't (which he probably doesn't) you can trade with the first hit of the uair with nair or bair. If he's coming at you and you're in the air, you might as well throw one out. Maybe he'll screw up.
FCing, you could try nairing before he gets to you. It's as fast as most character's jabs, so if you see him coming at you then nair/bair. Retreating fair (Ganon tactic hah) can catch him out of his uair if you do it right. Mix up your Float hieghts too and he'll have trouble hitting you every time.
Shuffled bairs and nairs are good. Unless you're being comboed by them. If he approaches with Shuffled bairs or nairs (probably not bair) you can wavedash back and dsmash them. If you're being comboed by them, you can DI away or try to nair out. Neither should work though.
The vids will definitely help though, i can give you more specific help then.
dylondylondylon
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 8, 2006
- Messages
- 42
whats a good way to live threw foxes waveshine up smash i hate it it like kills me every time?oh and witch way should i DI it or something to keep me alive?
icy_icicle
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2005
- Messages
- 378
^...
If you read the post right before yours, exarch explains everything...
If you read the post right before yours, exarch explains everything...
Maybe if I wasn't so lame that I failed to read two posts above me, I wouldn't be repeating what someone else has said. Alas I can't delete this message
icy_icicle
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2005
- Messages
- 378
CC also shortens your distance considerably...so combine that with crazy DI, which forces him to WD different lengths every time...it can mess up fox just a little bit...but that's enough time to put your shield up and then counter his stupid waveshine.
NF Alex
Smash Journeyman
Just spam her D-smash. It eats through most of Fox's attacks, and is also a great edgeguarding move.