Fox Match-Up General Discussion

[M@v]

Dude....Start holding tournaments at your college then :3

yeah, the little problem with that is i am at penn state main campus...and there are practically no vebues available. Ive been to one a frat house hosted (it was meh). But of course, I found out a local game place is hosting one....the weekend I am visiting my parents >_>.

O and btw I am hosting a tourney.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193691

 

[RPK]

I disagree with the Pirate ship call... It takes out Fox's edgeguarding, which, imo, is where he wins the match. Falco has a spike, so he's more potent in the water.... Idk, i just don't think it would help Fox.

And Japes really isn't that bad...although I certainly wouldn't be CPing it...

Illusions on Jungle Japes are teh secks <3

 

[-Mars-]

I honestly don't think Fox has a stage that he performs horrible on. He really is a versatile character and he usually has a decent answer for every playstyle that your going to be facing.

 

[Zhamy]

I find Fox does best on Neutral stages. I love Battlefield, personally.

The funky stages just screw up Fox's recovery so badly that it's hardly worth the effort.

 

[M@v]

I find Fox does best on Neutral stages. I love Battlefield, personally.

The funky stages just screw up Fox's recovery so badly that it's hardly worth the effort.

pirate ship and corneria are great cps against mk.

pirate ship: he comes to edge guard you, go for the water. MK doesnt have a spike. So basically you can almost completely elimate mks edgeguarding.

Corneria- No need to recover or edgeguard at all. low ceiling, early upsmashes. And you have an infinite on everyone here, if your lucky enough to get it.

 

[Zhamy]

That's true, M@V. On that note, /any/ stage with low ceilings is a plus.

 

[RPK]

Depends though...What stages are usually counter pick stages? Around here its usually Frigate, Delfino, and some other counter pick stages that no one usually picks

 

[Fenrir VII]

Frigate is debateable in some places....it's legal in most though.

Basic CP stages that are almost always there...

Delfino
Castle Siege
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 1
Frigate
Brinstar

After that, some stages apear in about half of the tourneys:

Norfair, Japes, Luigi's Mansion Pokemon Stadium 2

along with other random ones per tournament.

 

[§witch]

Corneria is counter/banned iirc.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Corneria is allowed at some tourneys... I've never entered one where it was, though.
Distant Planet is sometimes...

I was just listing the things I see pretty often. Everybody has their own ideas on stage list...so every tourney is slightly different...but it's a good idea to at least know the stages I listed and be aware of the stage list of every tourney you are going to enter.

 

[M@v]

im allowing corneria at my tourney. As of now, distant planet isnt allowed though.

 

[Zhamy]

distant planet isnt allowed though.

Thank God.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

why not distant planet? i like that stage.

 

[Zhamy]

The stage hazards are just annoying. I don't mind stages with hazards, but Distant Planet annoys the hell out of me.

 

[_X_]

The stage hazards are just annoying. I don't mind stages with hazards, but Distant Planet annoys the hell out of me.

I don't like it either, but it's a counter pick in Melbourne

Cao rule-set = Melbourne ruleset

AND our random is set with counter picks ON.

 

[§witch]

haha, random with counterpicks would be WAY more fun.

 

[M@v]

well, I think the falco talk is settling down. Of course any match isn't unwinnable, but this one is hard. 3:7 Falco, we all agreed?


NEXT up, the only top tier character we haven't discussed. And I still wonder how the heck he got in brawl. I give you: R.O.B.

He is hiding in a nintendo box in my basement, I should just go ask him his opinion of the matchup, but he would probably be biased, so lets discuss it.

I am thinking even for fox or 55:45 fox. Fair absolutely ***** this robot. completely.

 

[§witch]

No!!!!!!!!
Falco V Fox Is 6:4!

 

[M@v]

congrats on 1k+ posts XD. we will move it to 4:6 for now....

 

[Zhamy]

40:60 plox.

ROB:

RAAAAAAAAAAAPE. He's heavy and combo-able. Can't camp Fox. Doesn't have any reliable way to consistently force Fox into bad positions. Fox can outspace and outcombo ROB.

Fox's recovery is difficult for ROB to gimp, although the same goes for Fox. I'd put it at 6:4.

 

[Lightning93]

For some reason, I have incredible trouble with ROBs. In both tourneys I went to, the only character I ever lost to was a ROB. I do not really know how to generalize this matchup, because I avoid playing ROBs as much as possible, but their spot-dodge to d-smash pisses me off. Also, be careful of using your Fire Fox as a recovery move because the guy I was playing was especially good at edge guarding and pushing me back with a f-air, until I was too far away to recover. And be careful of ROBs b-airs and n-airs when juggling him, because these are a bother. What is really weird though, is that when fighting ROBs, my biggest problem is that I underestimate them. I have been waiting for this matchup for a while, because not only was the guy I lost to playing as ROB, but also used the name WALLE. Such disgrace...

 

[§witch]

I love SHDL in this match-up. I jump around and laser the whole match, between nairs, bairs, and dairs.

 

[Fenrir VII]

yeah... when you said 7-3...I was like....uhh... only a couple people argued with me about that one... and I said adv. Fox.

Admittedly, I'm ok I guess with 6-4 to 4-6 ... oh wells

 

[§witch]

Get on AIM, I wanna talk of epic things.

 

[KheldarVII]

Uhhh... not much I can add here. D-smash shouldn't be too much trouble unless he's shielding your D-airs too much and in that case you should stop. Every opportunity you can pummel with lasers and he'll take them. Surprise lasers should be shined but will probably be blocked or dodged as ROB will try to surprise them on you.

Combo'd and completely pressured. I'll give the advantage to Fox or at least even.

6:4 Fox.

 

[-Mars-]

Hmmm, one of Robs greatest strengths is his off the stage game, there's a reason why he is so high on the tier list. If he gets you off the stage and your forced to use fire fox, your pretty much dead. Rob can go all over the place and keep stringing his fairs together until you can't make it back.

If you do manage to stay on the stage though, he's going to have a hard time killing you. I wouldn't try juggling him because of his nair and dair, watch out for those. His dtilt and his dsmash are extremely fast, utilt may be ok against them, but don't try to counter with much else.

I'll look into the matchup a little more(I don't play Robs ever) and get back to you guys with more information.

 

[Lightning93]

Lol, I still hate ROBs, not matter the advantage for Fox, and yes I guess I was being a n00b during that tournament and maybe did a little too many d-airs. This was back in June tho, so my Fox wasn't so developed, beat a Snake though! XD

So I am in complete agreement, if the ROB is going to spam the d-smash dont spam the d-air. Which in all matchups you really shouldn't be trying to spam d-air, unless the guy completely sucks at shielding.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Um...you can DI up out of every dsmash consistently...

That's definitely worth mentioning here.

I use both sticks for it....though I'm not completely sure you have to...


Anyways, you take roughly 3% from it, slide to the other side of ROB so you can't really punish it...but you also don't ever have to fear it. : / Just thought I'd mention that right now.

 

[RPK]

When approaching a ROB, if you can, come from below him since his dair isnt really the fastest of moves...-shrugs- I dunno...I dont got too much experience in this match up.

 

[M@v]

reflector is your friend here. Screw you lasers and tops ^_^.

 

[Fenrir VII]

be smart with recovery, and ROB should never be able to kill you. His main killing moves are Nair, usmash, bair, and fsmash, really, which all have a decent amount of startup lag and really aren't that hard to see coming. I mean, yeah, you have to be careful, but ROB has legit trouble killing a smartly recovering Fox...

 

[M@v]

Only thing I ever die from is nair. And that is due to him reading me right when I try to get a dair on him with a shine stall/fastfall mixer upper.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Only thing I ever die from is nair. And that is due to him reading me right when I try to get a dair on him with a shine stall/fastfall mixer upper.

Yeah, it's about the same in my experience. I always feel stupid for dying from nair, though... that thing is elusive, but it starts so slowly... : /

Of course ROB will land killing moves on you, but he has to work for them pretty hard. Just...don't be stupid with your recovery...

 

[Lightning93]

lmao you have to take in consideration you have to use a Fire Fox sometimes though right? Then if he lands an f-air on you your screwed at least in my experience.

 

[Fenrir VII]

lmao you have to take in consideration you have to use a Fire Fox sometimes though right? Then if he lands an f-air on you your screwed at least in my experience.

You have to use firefox, really, only when he takes your second jump away...

but even barring that, you can get at odd angles for firefox to make it very hard for him to land his fairs..

I'm not saying he won't get you on it.. but if he continually is getting your second jump... or hitting your illusion, you're doing something wrong... and honestly, until he does one of those, I don't think you ever need to firefox in this match.

 

[-Mars-]

Everything said here is pretty much things I've seen when playing ROB.

Nair, bair, fsmash, and usmash all can kill but once they are used before 100% they have pretty much lost their killing potential. There are other killing options, like chaining fairs off the stage, fully charged gyros or b-throw at high percent to charged laser, but those are situational. At least fairs are useful from just SH's or chained from dash attacks, it's pretty easy to throw them in.

Recovery is ridiculous. I don't think that needs to be said. You can go underneath basically any stage with ease mixing bairs and his third jump. For movement on the ground, I've found that just walking is useful to keep spacing with f-tilt. His f-tilt range is pretty crazy, and the end lag is decent enough that you can throw it out without too much fear for repercussions. D-tilt is good for spacing too, as it's pretty easy to spam, has a hitbox in front and slightly behind ROB, and it makes the opponent trip nearly half the time.

Projectiles with him are fun. The lasers are useful semi-charged and fully charged (though I still can't decide which I should use more), and the gyro can be thrown out often. I've found glide tossing a gyro onto a shielded opponent sometimes opens them up for a forward smash. Grabbing the gyro when it's on the ground is pretty easy with dash attack as a follow up too.

ROB is fun, and I can only see him getting better.

Edit: On the Falco matchup, while Falco does have his share of strengths against ROB, there also some weaknesses he faces against ROB. Really, once you get Falco off the stage, you can probably keep him off with fairs. Utilt works much better as does uair, just because Falco fast falls. Generally, it's a little easier to rack up damage or acheive gimp kills.

I took this from the ROB discussion thread and I thought it summed him up pretty well.

 

[_X_]

Having played a few Robs I found shield pressuring is your friend here.

He's got that Melee game and watch shield syndrome where his hurt box is nearly sticking out of his shield with is awesome from dairness. He's heavy so most of your combos should be pretty affective. His recovery is insane so gimping is hard.

Honestly I haven't played a lot so I can't really help you too much.

I never check this thread but I REALLY could have helped you guys vs. Falco. Like a lot I think. Oh well.

 

[-Mars-]

Add the Falco stuff in anyways, if it's ok with the TC. We could always use more opinions.

 

[Lightning93]

You have to use firefox, really, only when he takes your second jump away...

but even barring that, you can get at odd angles for firefox to make it very hard for him to land his fairs..

I'm not saying he won't get you on it.. but if he continually is getting your second jump... or hitting your illusion, you're doing something wrong... and honestly, until he does one of those, I don't think you ever need to firefox in this match.

Yeah I agree, I can get around with a double jump, but usually he hits me when I am CHARGING the Fire Fox, so I can't really change the angle lol. But anyways I'll try to stick to illusions. Otherwise I don't encounter many other problems except him gimping me.

 

[Duo55]

I think the main two things that screw r.o.b. in this match up are his size, and the travel speed of his projectiles. Unless rob is on the complete other side of the stage, his projectiles will hit him if shined, what most robs like to do is wait for you to use the shine, then shoot you with the laser when they think your gonna drop it. Just hold the reflector until they shoot, or decide to approach. Most robs, even the good ones , will **** themselves with their own projectiles because they refuse to not use the laser. Take advantage, and his size is nothing but a complete negitive for this fight. The short hop dair to U tilt works wonders here, as well as throws. The only thing to be concerned about is Rob's range, and his off stage game. Be smart and control the center of the stage, if you can do that, you've won. Most R.O.B.s like to side line most of the time anyway, so it shouldnt be too hard. The main thing to winning this fight is to make R.O.B. afraid to use his projectiles, onces thats done, he'll approach by fair spam, or rolling. Both can be beaten by Fox. If he fair spams, shield grab him when he trys to actually hit you, never jump torwards a fairing R.O.B. you wont win. If he rolls on top of you expect a Dodge to D-smash. To beat this, short hop dair is just incredible, but dont try to smash out of dair every time, I found that dair to Jab combo is just incredible against rob, don't go overboard with the jab combo though, if you do it for to long, expect a F-tilt to the face to bring it to a screeching halt. All in all, a smart R.O.B. can match you pretty decently, but his size, and his generally campy style make him lose at the very end. McCloud 6/4 bad Idea for a new character