Fox Match-Up General Discussion

[M@v]

X says this match up is 50/50.

do tell, do tell. o crap! *gets CG'd to 40% then gattling combo'd another 15%*

 

[Fenrir VII]

I think Fox is in the top 70% in the game as far as recoveries go... He just has the options to keep the opponent guessing...moreso than a lot of the other cast. I wasn't saying in the top three or anything like that, but he has SO many options...and they just make it really easy to recover. Yes, they're all gimpable in their own way... but since your opponent has to guess what you're going to do... I don't really see why people keep saying it's easy to punish...maybe when played by a non-mixing player, sure...


As for Falco, I honestly think this is Fox's advantage (cringes for flamers). Yeah, I know I didn't like it on paper, but playing the matchup just isn't...that hard. Basically, you have to go into the match understanding that Falco has his cg that will put around 60% on you. BUt also realize that putting that amount on Falco too isn't too hard either.

ok basically, Always land aerials behind Falco and approach with grabs... As for his lasers...you have shield... and shine... like... they're not that big of a deal...just don't try to camp this match. either use his stuff against him...or shield it and approach...you can approach in this match. Why? because he has to land the cg to have a shot in this match.... If you land aerials behind his shields, he doesn't have a chance to cg you. this can even be accomplished with a SH nair... Falco is incredibly easy to combo...

The Falco chain spike doesn't appear to me to work... DI away and you're okay.


Now, the main reason I say advantage Fox (I know people are going to think i'm crazy for this matchup...sigh...I called that one a while back)... Fox is MUCH better at killing than Falco is... You can kill him with an usmash (DIed) before 100%....and that's not the only option you have...

Falco's upB is nearly unusable in this game...so he's limited to overB to recover... so when he's off stage, he will recover either onto the stage or onto the ledge with it. BOTH of these are hit with a drop off, second jump toward the stage, dair (assuming it's timed decently)... This also mini-spikes him, setting him up for an edgehog... or even a shine spike.
Fox has SO many more options in recovering in the match.... so Falco's dair can't keep up with what you can do to him...

On the stage, Falco only has several killing options... The main one being Fsmash. Fsmash is very slow, though, so if it doesn't just surprise you, it shouldn't hit. Bair, dsmash...and eventually usmash will kill as well, but it's just... how do I say this? ...simple to see them coming. Falco just has problems mixing it up enough to actually kill you. and all this time, you're putting on percentage with a few SHDLs and combos. Especially if the Falco is trying and failing to cg you... you get him to +50% with no real effort... and throw him off the stage. Even if you don't have time to dair him, an utilt will beat the phantasm onto the stage...and continue the combo...

originally, before I played the match so much, I gave it almost completely to Falco... but in playing it... I realize Falco HAS to land the cg....and while he's trying, you're doing all this damage to him... Even if he lands it reliably, it's about 60%... which you've more than likely already given to him...or you will easily... add to that the fact that you kill him reliably at 100%...and you don't die for another 30% or so easily... And your edgeguarding game is MUCH more useful...and the match just isn't bad at all.

I've known I would take flack for this match for a very long time... I was cringing about it...but really, it's my new favorite match..

I'm really hesitant to put a number on this match... so I guess I won't for now at least. I will say this, though. It's an advantage for Fox. better than a 5-5 for him imo..

flame away... >.>

 

[KheldarVII]

There's something about playing Fox vs Falco that is just more entertaining than any other matchup.

For one thing, Fenrir is right about the CG and the dependability. Nearly EVERY Falco player I've played (not every single one mind you) will be a big spot dodger and grabber at the beginning. First you'll see lasers. Once you shine them once he will usually only fire one and then throw out his reflector. You're on the better end here as you could already be dashing and shielding so his camping game is like "so what"? Unless of course lag beats you.

Just remember to keep in mind when he's going to B-air/D-air when above you. If you're under 50% stay mid-range and keep jumping out of his hands and never stand in close quarters longer than 2 seconds. Once you're above CG percentages expect a lot of D-smashes. Don't D-smash back but just get out of there and maybe hyphen smash him good or fire some more lasers.

It's kind of like a limited, efficient amount of options versus a mass variety, less efficient amount of options. That's Falco vs Fox for you. Personally I love being on Fox's side in this.

Oh yeah, never charge at that F-smash... it has the wackiest hitboxes. If you do run in, he'll probably D-smash out of panic and it'll get you.

 

[RPK]

Psssssssssssstttt

Jump Cancel'd shines should be your best friend in this match =D Especially since you can just charge straight at the Falco, which is dumb, and in the middle of the run, or dash, pull out the JC'd Shine since by jumping, it allows you to pull out the shine at almost anytime you wish. From there, learn how to jump out of it as soon as his lasers hit you. This should leave Falco open with a Laser and you coming at him. He HAS to move or else you will be able to hit him. Falco, unlike the others cannot jump out of his reflector when a projectile has hit it. So for those saying Fox gets shut down by lasers....No...Its almost the exact opposite...You try shooting a laser, you will end up eating all of those lasers right back...

 

[M@v]

going to have to disagree with you fenrir. Fox is clearly beat here. The cg to spike DOES work on fox. Plus, falco grabs you once, you are already up to about 60%(cg to gattling combo). He outprioritizes you. Yes, fox is better at recovery and killing, but falco only really needs to land a couple more hits on fox after the cg to kill him. Only major thing going for you here, like I said, is fox's superior kill capability. I got to go to class, but I will write more later.

 

[§witch]

Switch says X is wrong ^_^

 

[JigglyZelda003]

well the spike doesn't always work, only like 95% of the time it does. >.>

 

[§witch]

^Only if falco messes up.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I'm still unconvinced about the CG spike with DI away after the stage...but if it works, it works. But also, don't be right near the ledge, and Falco's CG doesn't have the horizontal movement to get you to it very well... anyway, this is a moot point in any circumstance.

I don't know about the blanket statement "Fox is clearly beat here"

First of all, let me say that a chain grab to 60% does not mean the match is suddenly bad. Tell me how Falco has a reliable grab lead in... If you are careful not to blindly attack his shield... he has lasers, but those really shouldn't lead to a grab against Fox... and other than that, falco is not fast enough on the ground to just land a grab whenever he wants.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Falco will never land a grab. I'm not using the "don't get grabbed" argument... at least not completely.. But I am saying that Falco will also have very little chance of landing a grab at 0% on any given stock...much less every one.

Now, Yes, Falco can cg... that just means Fox has to be somewhat careful... don't use SH dairs against shield... use nair instead to land behind... or a full hop (maybe shine stall) dair behind the shield.

Falco has NOTHING fast enough out the back of his shield to punish you for it. Now, of course, if he predicts it, it becomes messy... as always... I'm just saying it's a good option.

For a character with good options like Falco, he surprisingly does not have too many defensive options other than grab. Laser can keep you away...unless you know how to shield or shine jump..shine can keep you spaced...unless you know how to shield and punish... utilt outprioritizes certain things well enough, but other than that... I mean... he basically has worse options than Fox in every defensive scenario. If you can bait out certain defensive options, you can punish them. The ONLY thing to really be worried about is the cg.

As I said before...and others have mentioned.. Falco knows that grab is his weapon... so if you get behind him or whatever, he will have to react in a bad way for him. Just don't go crazy and try to land something against a spot dodge or a shield... baiting out his options leads to you getting a LOT of hits in.. so his damage goes up incredibly quickly.

I touched on edgeguarding before...but honestly, Fox has incredible edgeguards against Falco. The off the stage nair and dair both beat (assuming good spacing) illusions either onto the edge or onto the stage... just drop down and rise up with a second jump attack back onto the stage. Dair will semi spike falco, setting up a shine spike...which is pretty ridiculously easy to land. Honestly, a throw off the stage... or especially a dsmash at higher %s means a very tricky situation for Falco...in which he could very well lose his stock.

Now let's touch on the differences between Fox's and Falco's recoveries... Falco's illusion goes farther uncanceled and is quicker on startup. Fox's firefox is MUCH longer and more useful... and Fox can shine stall to throw off edgeguarding... So Falco's dair for edgeguard should be taken out of the picture, mainly.


Everybody knows Fox kills faster than Falco... so I don't really need to go back into that.. Falco's fsmash is VERY situational in this match, so it's almost taken out of the picture, too...

I'm just saying Fox can actually approach in this match...and Falco does not have the options...assuming Fox is careful, to defend against that. Fox's pressure game is incredible against all that Falco has...so he has to rely on CG....and if he can't land it... he has a huge problem.

Synopsis:

Falco can cg Fox to 60%
Fox can avoid that, for the most part reasonably, with smart play.

Falco being offstage is scary for him... Fox has VERY good edgeguarding options...
Fox can usually get back on stage through stalling and smart mixups...

Falco's laser and reflector are less useful than against other characters, due to Fox's speed and reflector
Fox can apply very good pressure and make Falco react....usually leading to open hits.

Fox can reasonably kill Falco MUCH faster than Falco can Fox...and apply damage very quickly...almost as quickly as Falco WITH his cg....



look, i'm not saying this is an 8-2... or even a 7-3. I believe it's somewhere between 5-5 and 6.5-3.5 for Fox. I really, really, really do not believe this to be in Falco's matchup...


On a real side note here... I have been belittled recently for my often...different views on Fox matchups. And honestly, that's completely understandable.. To be perfectly honest, these are my views on the matchups I've really discussed recently....some people haven't been correct on them.

ZSS - not good with the dsmash infinite... people say it's true, so yeah...at least 7-3 for ZSS under that circumstance. sure, it's hard to hit it, but not impossible.

MK - I honestly think is between a 5-5 and a 6-4 for Fox. I stated that well enough before

Snake - personally, I think it's a 6-4 for Snake. Certainly not bad for Fox, but slightly in Snake's advantage...

DDD - straight 5-5 in normal matches.

Marth - 6-4 for Marth. yes, I think it's for marth... just not 7-3.

GW - 6-4 for GW....same as Marth in that.

Link - 7-3 for Fox

Honestly, I know I seem optimistic at times...but I think my matchups are more conservative than a lot of other players. I do believe Fox has a lot of pretty even matchups.

yes, I believe there are 7-3 matchups involving Fox. I think pika is ridiculous...I also think Fox wrecks ganon... w/e. I'm just trying to say that, other than MK, my matchups really aren't that weird usually...





HUGE EDIT!

just to clear it up. I get a bit excited and type a lot... I'm certainly not trying to overwhelm anybody....or start a fight here... Honestly, I don't want that... I really respect a lot of the people who post here...especially M@v and a few others.

Sometimes when I type, i come across as a jerk... I am really not meaning that if I did here. ...just making sure I said that. : ) I'm always open for debate here...not argument, but debate.

 

[-Mars-]

Hey your matchup views may seem a little extreme to most of the people on this board and on the other boards(the whole Marth and MK debates were examples of this), but I respect that you have your own opinions on matters. Not only do you form your own opinions, you back them up.......your a main reason as to why this matchup board as a whole has been very good so far. The Fox boards as a whole may not be very lively, but this matchup thread is one of the few good ones i've seen in all the character boards.

 

[KheldarVII]

Two players... with perfect mastery of each character... and it's in Fox's favor?

I can't see it happening unless the Fox player is smarter than the Falco player. I also want to know why Fox is so high on the JP Tier list. What do they know that we don't... unless it's a consipiracy in the SBR.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Two players... with perfect mastery of each character... and it's in Fox's favor?

That's my opinion, yes.

I also want to know why Fox is so high on the JP Tier list. What do they know that we don't... unless it's a consipiracy in the SBR.

That's pretty easy to sum up... possibly offending some people, but I hope none around here.

A) Japanese people are like obsessed with Fox, so a lot more of them play him...as a general rule... thus, he will place more in tournaments, thus he will be higher on the list.

B) The SBR's ruleset and tier list are both majorly flawed. They were done by a voting system...at least in part... with longwinded, narrowminded individuals clouding the discussion without actually knowing what they are talking about.

At least for Fox, as an example... 90% of the brawl community doesn't know what he can do... they see Fox as limited to dair approaches... and only that. So when you get certain people in the back room arguing with long drawn out (usually wrong) posts about how terrible Fox is, it clouds the discussion, and they will debate it to the ground...scaring away people who may actually know. That's how the ruleset and tier list were formed... I don't like that reasoning at all. I believe our list is very skewed... Whether Japan's is much better is debateable... but you asked a question, so I felt an opportunity to vent.

 

[-Mars-]

That's my opinion, yes.



That's pretty easy to sum up... possibly offending some people, but I hope none around here.

A) Japanese people are like obsessed with Fox, so a lot more of them play him...as a general rule... thus, he will place more in tournaments, thus he will be higher on the list.

B) The SBR's ruleset and tier list are both majorly flawed. They were done by a voting system...at least in part... with longwinded, narrowminded individuals clouding the discussion without actually knowing what they are talking about.

At least for Fox, as an example... 90% of the brawl community doesn't know what he can do... they see Fox as limited to dair approaches... and only that. So when you get certain people in the back room arguing with long drawn out (usually wrong) posts about how terrible Fox is, it clouds the discussion, and they will debate it to the ground...scaring away people who may actually know. That's how the ruleset and tier list were formed... I don't like that reasoning at all. I believe our list is very skewed... Whether Japan's is much better is debateable... but you asked a question, so I felt an opportunity to vent.

I agree with this. The general view on Fox is approaching with dair to uptilt and around kill percentage the Fox player will go for the upsmash kill. What people don't realize is that fox has so many more options he can go with. It's really just going to be up to people winning with him in tournaments. Until that happens your going to be getting the same misinformed views about Fox that you see all over smashboards.

On a side note, any chance I could get a link to the Japanese Tier List?

 

[RPK]

You dont even need dair...I can usually compete with people with just nair into whatever I need...

 

[M@v]

this is coming from experience from MY OWN matches. Yes, I think fox deserves high tier. But no, he does NOT do good against Falco from my experiences.

 

[RPK]

I only have 2 Falcos that I fight every now and then...Anyone care to take any guesses on 1 of the Falcos? I'll give you a hint, ends with 92 T3T

 

[-Mars-]

I only have 2 Falcos that I fight every now and then...Anyone care to take any guesses on 1 of the Falcos? I'll give you a hint, ends with 92 T3T

Sk 92? If so you have very valuable first hand experience in the matchup against one of the best. If it's not him then I have no idea.

 

[RPK]

Its him...Though havent fought him recently since I havent seen the Reno crew for a bit...
EDIT: But yeah...Hung out with the guy and a few others afterwards...Never laughed so hard in my life! There were even a few unspeakable things done...Like a d*** sucking contest with drum sticks between him and some other dude...No homo was declared so it should be alright >.>

 

[Fenrir VII]

Its him...Though havent fought him recently since I havent seen the Reno crew for a bit...
EDIT: But yeah...Hung out with the guy and a few others afterwards...Never laughed so hard in my life! There were even a few unspeakable things done...Like a d*** sucking contest with drum sticks between him and some other dude...No homo was declared so it should be alright >.>

haha wow...

Smash is all about the community. without that it's... just a game.

So what about Falco anyway?

 

[§witch]

If you've played SK you're in a better position than anyone here to talk of the match-up.

 

[RPK]

Unfortunately...I havent played his Falco too much...And if I did, it was in doubles and I got scraped...Thats all I remember...
EDIT: Most of the time hanging with him was him and another friend of mine as we all ate breakfast, and made fun of roots, and watched the two of them act blacker then the background Im editting this post on.

EDIT 2: Anyways...Yeah...Falco...Reflector and jump out...

 

[M@v]

I played my friend's falco to a match today (hes really fricken good btw) with fox. I won, but barely. We were both near 100% on the last stock. I won because I caught him off guard with a uair for the win. I was able to get him in a couple utilt juggles, But of course I got CG'd on every stock. Spacing is everything. Fair is great to use for spacing/approaching. If he shields your apporach, chaingrab says hi.

 

[Xiivi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqdyhUFNrKw

Best example of the match-up at high level play you'll get.

 

[Zhamy]

How have I not seen those videos before?

 

[M@v]

i like how he starts with pivot grabs for the cg, so he can chose what way he wants to go. And Utilt cancels phantasm.....good to know.

 

[Fenrir VII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqdyhUFNrKw

Best example of the match-up at high level play you'll get.

I saw these vids a few days ago...and really, imo, they show that SK92 is a very good player. I also respect Lucien as a good Fox...he's one of the only ones that I can watch without wondering what he's doing most of the time.

That said, I'm really confused about the way he played the matchup...and some choices that he made....

The only real time he ever tried to edgeguard off the stage was at 1:01....with a shine spike. Admittedly, I probably would have gone for the same thing...I feel Falco was fairly lucky to grab the ledge right there... But at no other time does he even try to jump off the stage after Falco, which I feel is Fox's best area in this match... : / rising dairs and nairs both beat Falco's recovery options... so I'm confused by that.

at 1:07, he missed an utilt combo from dair...trying to shield... and again at 1:17...it kinda looked like he tried to jump after that one... : /

He didn't laser in opportunities where he could to refill his usmashes...such as at 1:39 where he could have landed one or two easily... I understand he was looking for the utilt, but still...

I don't feel he played the awkward moments...like at 1:43 correctly... he usually just ran back away instead of capitalizing. I understand SK was playing those very well, but there were still opportunities for an attack... if you figure a dair dsmash would kill at that particular spot, or an usmash landed on that bair...idk It just seems like instead of applying pressure, he went back away so that Falco could laser him some more. : /
Again, at 2:20, he runs up and falco spot dodges... that's a free grab that he missed... I don't understand why he just ran away there.

At 2:27, SK missed a CGspike... lucien was DIing away. at 2:48, he landed one and Fox made it back easily... I don't understand why the uair, though...
2:32 is a hard death to watch. Good play by SK92...could have been teched, but I wouldn't have seen it coming the first time either... just good play. Why did Fox ledge hop UAIR, though? That makes no sense... : /

At 3:11, Fox does a nice setup to get a fthrow off the stage... Falco is OBVIOUSLY set up for a nair, but Fox runs away and charges usmash... sure, he wanted to hit the phantasm... but Falco could even shorten that AFTER he saw Fox charging... just a bad choice, imo... nair would stop the phantasm and lead to more edgeguarding...dair isn't a bad choice there either.

Then Fox dies from a stupid shield push off and that's the match.

Don't get me wrong. i really respect Lucien in what he is doing for Fox... and the choices he makes usually, but honestly, it looked like he didn't know the match at all... He was going for uairs all over the place which I don't understand...other aerials are usually better choices...especially when recovering and getting off the ledge... He wasn't using his lasers well, although I agree that falco owns that part of the match. You can still land a few to recharge moves... and he was never really trying to edgeguard other than the utilt on phantasm... which, Falco can just go to the ledge at that point uncontested.
Falco has a very easy to beat recovery for Fox... why would you not use it?

SK was really solid in this match, but other than a few good mindgames... I didn't really see Falco owning Fox as pure characters. The edgeguard for Luciens second death was good...but techable if you know about it...
the CGs were annoying, but never really lead to all that much.

At 1:06 in the video... Falco landed a grab with Fox at 33%....dthrow put him to 43%, and Fox DIed back and teched out of range of the dash attack... hmm
he had one CGspike where either he just missed or Fox DIed away and couldn't be hit with it
he had one CGspike that landed...and Fox second jumped back onto the stage. (uair aside)


I know that in any video, there are a list of things to critique...and I'm really not trying to be too critical here. I'm just responding with my thoughts as to what that video was... and that SK is pretty sick, yes.

i like how he starts with pivot grabs for the cg, so he can chose what way he wants to go. And Utilt cancels phantasm.....good to know.

Actually, everything cancels phantasm if it's early enough. Phantasm, like illusion, has attack frames BEHIND Falco... so if you hit Falco, and not the attack frames, you beat it.. so you can beat it with any move. Ones that stay out there for a while are my personal favorite... dair and nair are both wonderful for it...just have to be slightly early.

I thought the utilt was mainly a bad choice... because Falco can just have the ledge at that point. : /

 

[ZodiakLucien]

yea I did do a lot of things wrong that match. A lot of the problems was just really simple missed tech and not my decision making. He just had me scared because he was doing stuff i havent seen before, and he is just a better player. So I lost confidence and didnt do the **** I should of done when the opening showed. Definitely one of my worse videos. I had some idea to fight falcos as I fought a couple at nexus, but nothing at that calibur.

 

[KheldarVII]

I'm sure you could school him anyday.

 

[Xiivi]

I'm sure you could school him anyday.

If I heard correctly, he dropped Brawl and went back to Melee for one reason or another. Looks like you Fox mains will need someone else to start carrying some of the weight.

 

[M@v]

If I heard correctly, he dropped Brawl and went back to Melee for one reason or another. Looks like you Fox mains will need someone else to start carrying some of the weight.

I gladly would go out to big tourneys. Don't know how I would do, but I know I can hold my own. But there are two little things called GAS and MONEY....especially since I am in college right now.

 

[RPK]

I gladly would go out to big tourneys. Don't know how I would do, but I know I can hold my own. But there are two little things called GAS and MONEY....especially since I am in college right now.

Dude....Start holding tournaments at your college then :3

 

[-Mars-]

Oh just for anyone who cares, I think the best stage to cp a Falco would be Norfair. His awful recovery really hinders him on this stage, edgegaurding him gets even easier as he's forced to use his upb more than his phantasm. He also can't chaingrab you, so you won't have that automatic disadvantage on every stock. Your speed also becomes more of an factor on this stage, you can outmanuever him all over the place. The low ceiling also means upsmash will be killing very early while he'll have problems killing you. His lasers also are taken out of the equation...........Fox has an overwhelming advantage on this stage, so conterpick Norfair always against a Falco. Anyone agree with me on this?

 

[pure_awesome]

We can still chaingrab Fox on Norfair.

It just requires more boosting.


I don't know about stages for Fox, but you guys are going to want to avoid Pirate Ship and Frigate Orpheon. More importantly, avoid Jungle Japes like it's the god****ed plague. Seriously, we will slap you so hard on that stage, it's not even funny.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Oh just for anyone who cares, I think the best stage to cp a Falco would be Norfair. His awful recovery really hinders him on this stage, edgegaurding him gets even easier as he's forced to use his upb more than his phantasm. He also can't chaingrab you, so you won't have that automatic disadvantage on every stock. Your speed also becomes more of an factor on this stage, you can outmanuever him all over the place. The low ceiling also means upsmash will be killing very early while he'll have problems killing you. His lasers also are taken out of the equation...........Fox has an overwhelming advantage on this stage, so conterpick Norfair always against a Falco. Anyone agree with me on this?

That's actually a really interesting CP...hmm... although I would think the multiple ledge would help his recovery...assuming he can space the phantasm onto it.

Not really sure how I feel about it, but yeah, it's interesting...

I personally like Lylat... his recovery is hurt more than yours there... and Fox seems to have REALLY good spacing on Lylat.
FD is pretty amazing for the match, imo...
I would stay away from Smashville... that place kinda scares me in this match.
Halberd isn't a bad pick, really.
Luigi's mansion is fine if it's allowed... Fox can insta-refill his smashes on that stage...and assuming you play it correctly, you could still get kills through usmash through the hole and dsmash... overall, I hate the stage though, so I wouldn't play it.
Pokemon Stadium 1 is pretty beast, too...because it sometimes gimps the overB. : ) just be careful

 

[§witch]

Pirate ship is your best bet. JJ is your worst bet.

 

[pure_awesome]

Pirate ship is your best bet. JJ is your worst bet.

Pirate Ship's tilted floor messes with Fox's aerials, which from what I know is your main approach method. The water around the stage completely removes any problems Falco would have had with recovery, while Fox still has to be careful since Falco can spike underwater.

I was also under the impression that Pirate Ship had a higher-than-average ceiling.

 

[§witch]

The tilted stage messes with phantasm and lasers more than it would mess up fox, I know, I main falco. And no chain spikes, savvy?

 

[pure_awesome]

I know, I main falco.

Ugh. Please don't use that argument. It's like saying because you've lived in a house all your life, you know how to build one. Just because you main a character doesn't mean you know every little nuance about him and how he relates to each individual stage and character. Sorry, don't want to sound like a jerk, but that's a pet peeve of mine. Besides, I main Falco too, so it makes even less sense.

I'm fairly sure that the tilts of the floor will negatively impact Fox far more than they will Falco. A good Falco wouldn't be using the Phantasm much against a good Fox anyway, since Dair beats it out so easily and puts Fox in a great position. But we should probably wait and see what the Fox guys have to say about that. Oh, and Falco can't chainspike Fox. He goes too low if Fox DIs away, the Dair misses.

Anyway, even if the tilts of the stage benefit Fox more, why not choose Lylat Cruise or Yoshi's Island? They're both stages with tilts that still allow Fox to keep his advantage off the side of the stage. Fox's saving grace in this matchup is the edgeguarding game. Pirate Ship removes that advantage.

My two cents.

 

[§witch]

Fox can be chainspiked. Idk where you got that info. And the fact that I main faloc means I have some degree of knowledge as how he plays. And the fact that you ignored the laser point, makes me not want to to take anything you say seriously.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I disagree with the Pirate ship call... It takes out Fox's edgeguarding, which, imo, is where he wins the match. Falco has a spike, so he's more potent in the water.... Idk, i just don't think it would help Fox.

And Japes really isn't that bad...although I certainly wouldn't be CPing it...