Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[xDD-Master]

...

A great post imo

You summed up the problem really well

Happy read

 

[gm jack]

Stuff

MK's metagame has nearly stopped. Many other are still evolving. For my main, Sheik still has not really been refined to actually find a best way to play her yet, and Zelda has very recently found a way to momentum cancel as well as a double jump, but without using it and presenting her quicker and more powerful Bair to the stage. Admittedly, the Zelda thing is trivial to the overall metagame, she is still a a poor character, but it is **** useful to Zelda mains. People have focussed on MK and of course he has reached his peak quicker. That does not mean slower developing characters won't find a way to beat him. For example, Bowser has an infinte on MK and many others. Near impossible to practically do, but it exists. How can you say his metagame is far better when it is still developing? If you say it's because other player are swapping to MK, then that only slows progress, it won't stop it.

The metagame is not being over centralised. Look at the results of Genesis. A snake, 3 mks and then a wide mix of characters. A Tink (B tier) was in joint 12th and a Sheik (bottom of C tier) was 17th. MK did not dominate. The top MK pros did well, as could be expected, but were still beaten. The ones below that did not place well. This implies that there are still plenty of pros for other characters doing well, so hence there metagames will still be catching up.

Top level players are split over the ban, and so you can't point to some to back your point up, as there are just as many who want him to stay.

Although you say the Canadian scene is being beaten by MKs, that is player failure rather than game failure. They want to win with the least effort possible, so they play a character who goes at least even with anyone and a fairly easy learning curve. Human nature, not a game problem.

As for my views, I neither play MK nor beat them regularly. It is also a game with more than one character, so of course it isn't balanced. However, those that I have played have beaten me either though simply making better choices or technical mistakes on my part. I play Sheik, who goes an average 40:60 against MK. I never feel out of my depth against MK players. Sure they beat me, but every time I learn something new either about my own character or MK. Next time, I do a little bit better. I suck, and am getting better at playing him.

MK is not dominating everywhere. This does not signify an overall problem, but just rather a problem in certain regions. Other characters are catching up. While he at the moment is certainly the best, it isn't by a long way. If the metagame eventually peaks and MK gets further and further ahead, then maybe a ban will be for the good of the community. As it stands, I think it would only hinder the development of the game.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That is called a top tier character. The fact that Brawl is different doesn't amount to much at all because top tiers will be top tiers even if the objection of the game is to destroy a building. Top tiers are simply the best of the available options to you, and that will pretty much always apply.

I still believe that a character who is good enough to not have a disadvantage against anyone, not have a disadvantage anywhere, and have the tools to make the game utterly unfun should be banned.

 

[:mad:]

What do you want me to say? That he can be crushed by ganondorf's utilt? That would be a lie.

I said that he is good but punishable. Specialy with mind games. And so is the fact. Will you try to go over MK's attacks like an animal? Nope, he has the priority. AND he also has the range. Otherwise he wouldn't be ubber.

But look at snake's game. He can use granades and ftilts to give massive damage and then kill with nair (that can be lagless, we all know, making an offensive MK go into the utilt trap) or utilt or sweetspot bair and etcs.

Peach can combo MK to 50%+ easily and then it's up to the player's mind game to kill.

Warios can plank (yes they can) and do like 60% dmg (that's not very difficult, it is? ) and then fart.

Marth can use his range and side Bs to accumulate dmg and use fsmash in sweetspot...

So well... the way I said, it'd be simple to kill him. But that's not the way things happen. Normaly MK can do some gay early kill and etc. But some times the opposite happens, he get edgeguarded with his up B and make an error... all kind of things happens in smash.

SO. What I'm saying is that it's all up to the mind games. And MK is good but not broken. Otherwise there would only existe 2 kind of players. The MK and the suicides.

I love MK's face x3~

Can somebody with a little more patience for wrong information reply to this properly?

I sure as **** can't do it myself.

 

[Red Arremer]

I still believe that a character who is good enough to not have a disadvantage against anyone, not have a disadvantage anywhere, and have the tools to make the game utterly unfun should be banned.

"Fun" is a word that you should NEVER use in a discussion. EVER.

Reason:
"Fun" is subjective. What is "unfun" for you can be "fun" for me, and guess what, playing against Meta Knights is extremely fun for me! It's a challenge to play against good Meta Knights, thus I LOVE playing against him.

 

[iRJi]

"Fun" is a word that you should NEVER use in a discussion. EVER.

Reason:
"Fun" is subjective. What is "unfun" for you can be "fun" for me, and guess what, playing against Meta Knights is extremely fun for me! It's a challenge to play against good Meta Knights, thus I LOVE playing against him.

Yes true, so allow me to back him up with a few arguments that i have brought to the boards yesterday, just incase no one saw it:

There's way more CP'ing in Melee than you think, especially in the fights with top tiers. If a Marth ran into a really good Sheik, you'd best believe he'd CP Fox on Cornerria.


Granted Brawl is a different game than Melee, they both still follow the same basic principles. The "no bad matchups" argument can easily be said for other games not related to smash at all as well. Just CP to an even matchup if that's the case and pick a stage that isn't as much in Meta Knight's favor. There's your CP. It's not broken.

I did have a talk with one of my friends about this earlier infact. MK does have bad stages, but it is character dependent. Diddy on FD would be a fast and easy example. The thing about C/P is that there is infact a chance to ban a stage, and to also strike one. MK does have a good advantage on most neutrals, and the one's he can lose to because of it being character dependent can simply be striked.

Example: Diddy vs MK
Diddy would want Fd as his first pick, due to the fact he has a large and better chance of beating him. Arguably one of his best stages to play an MK on.

MK strike's FD. Diddy loses all of advantages on neutrals. Battle field is not that good for Diddy. Lylat and Yoshi's fall into the same boat. Next best pick would be Smashville, but that is actually one of MK's best stages.

A good decent post on proof would be here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7669433&postcount=626

Now lets talk about C/Ping Mk on a stage. Can you name 2 stages that MK can not fight on against a character? Because of that he can simply ban and it locks off the limits of what can happen.

In most cases, MK will have a C/P stage that is Character dependent, but also in these cases he only has one stage that can screw him over. That is where the ban comes in, and you can simply ban the stage from being used.

Of course, other characters float in the same boat when it comes to this situation, but other characters can be C/P'd by character, still giving them a slight advantage if they wanted it. MK however, still goes even to positive on every character in game. That Plus the fact that he can eliminate most of his bad stages in most cases, makes it a double threat. Most characters, infact, all other characters, don't have the luxury of both blessings.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Fakinha, the problem with your arguments is that MK can do everything you mentioned, better and faster with none of the weaknesses of the other chars. Snake has to play incredibly defensive the entire game; losing the lead means that MK can camp and plank and then snake has to either cook grenades ridiculously well, time C4 with godlike skill, or approach. And snake is terrible at approaching. 60 damage against a good MK is actually really really hard. At least, 60% and then killing him. Missing with the fart is easy; it takes a long time to charge to kill levels again. Marth is outranged by MK. Peach can't do that and even if she could, MK has the Gilde attack->5xUair->tornado 0-death on most.

 

[Brinzy]

Shut up. This is another argument which is incredibly stupid. That we want him banned because it's good for our mains. For one, no.

For one, yes, people do vote for that reason. I've seen maybe 20 minutes of this thread and the entirety of the other three, and yes, people do vote for this very reason.

Stop being naive.

I play bowser, I'm not gunning to see Ice Climbers, Diddy or DDD (okay, I want his shortstep and his infinite to go...) banned. I play snake, I'm not asking for a ban on Olimar. I play DDD, I... oh wait he's ****ed by MK too.

I play Zelda/Sheik, I'm not gunning to see G&W and MK banned.

Oh wait, look at that, I'm not gunning to see the most controversial character banned. Sorry, I thought we had some similarities here. Good thing I don't put one character on a pedestal even though players can probably "ez button" me harder with G&W than MK, but that's off topic. What I'm really baffled at is:

For two, some have earned the right to be angry. Seen luigi much? Or ROB? ROB is completely invalidated by Metaknight (80/20, approximately). Marth would be top tier if he didn't have a 65/35 vs. MK. Luigi's 70/30 speaks for itself. Metaknight also invalidates a bunch of chars which aren't viable anyways, so I'll save that for another time.

this bull****.

So you start your post off saying, "Shut up. This is another argument which is incredibly stupid. That we want him banned because it's good for our mains" and then you end it with "some mains have earned the right to be angry"? Hello, logical fallacy.

And even if this were logical in some alternate universe, who cares? That's why some high tiers and pretty much everyone below is gonna want a secondary for at least one character in top tier. The fact that MK is 80:20ing Robot doesn't mean **** besides being that he's a hard counter to Robot, which is what happens. What about all the other hard counters in the game where people go to play another character anyway? Again, you're making a special case for MK which completely destroys any sense you were trying to make. Try again.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes true, so allow me to back him up with a few arguments

May I ask what that has to do anything with his or my definition of "fun"?

 

[iRJi]

May I ask what that has to do anything with his or my definition of "fun"?

Oo no, in complete agreement with you on the fun part ^_^ lol. I am talking about the rest of is statements lol.

Fun really shouldn't be used in a debate like this lol.

 

[:mad:]

May I ask what that has to do anything with his or my definition of "fun"?

I think he was just saying "Yes, you are correct. Now let me take the time to bring up an entirely different topic."

 

[Red Arremer]

Oo no, in complete agreement with you on the fun part ^_^ lol. I am talking about the rest of is statements.

Ah, I see, cause you said "so allow me to back him up with my arguments", cause that's usually meaning that you want to debunk my statement.

If you would have said "Yes, that's true.

Now, to add to his other statments...

[words]"

It would've been completely clear.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

"Fun" is a word that you should NEVER use in a discussion. EVER.

Reason:
"Fun" is subjective. What is "unfun" for you can be "fun" for me, and guess what, playing against Meta Knights is extremely fun for me! It's a challenge to play against good Meta Knights, thus I LOVE playing against him.

Is it fun to watch someone plank for 8 minutes?
It's objective, sure, but you can easily judge that a vast majority would prefer a fun interactive game than a plankfest. Camping is even more fun than planking or air camping. But there's certainly more to it than that. I'll admit that, from a debate sense, that was a mistake and drop that point. But the rest still stands and Metaknight should be banned.

 

[Red Arremer]

Is it fun to watch someone plank for 8 minutes?

I haven't seen that happen so far, neither I have seen Planking to be the main reason for someone to win.

It's objective, sure, but you can easily judge that a vast majority would prefer a fun interactive game than a plankfest.

I haven't seen that happen so far, neither I have seen Planking to be the main reason for someone to win.

Camping is even more fun than planking or air camping.

I actually find playing Wario and aircamping extremely entertaining.

But there's certainly more to it than that. I'll admit that, from a debate sense, that was a mistake and drop that point.

Thank you.

 

[Laem]

<3 European tourney results

Initially i was anti-ban, probably cause i think m2k said that while most top tiers are rather campy, mk rushes in n has a good time. But when mk starts camping....
Also pro-ban essay is superior to the anti-ban imo, it's convinced me. Last thing that might just be pretty important: As a european i made my decision for america. Situation over here is so much better, and frankly, banning MK here is absolutely not necessary(see tourney results). So what im saying, double check the location at posts, i reckon europeans are inevitably biased.

 

[Qckpy01]

Pro ban essay *****!!!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This is part of why I'm so for this argument. The proof that MK is bannable and should be banned is all there. And it's been presented nicely too. But all the other side can come up with is that it shouldn't be banned because... well, he isn't bannable by criteria set by... other games. The rest is just attempting to counter the arguments of the pro side. But this fails in my eyes because they use the same information and try to push their point when the info seems to really be merely pro-ban.

 

[Palpi]

Battlefield is a pretty good diddy stage, regardless if smashville and FD are better, it is the next best neutral.

I think Fox has 1 bad matchup on 1 stage right? Something like that. And there is a crazy amount of 90-10 match ups with Sheik and the rest of the cast. It isn't just other games, it is the next closest game to brawl. If something wasn't a "problem" in melee, then it shouldn't be a problem now, people are just being selfish.

 

[UberMario]

As much as I resent the thought of Meta being banned, it would be a nice change from having 50% of tourney-going players using him.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I haven't seen that happen so far, neither I have seen Planking to be the main reason for someone to win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jYJ-Yjf3w&feature=channel_page

 

[smashmachine]

air camping>>planking

and there is no way half the people in a tourney use meta knight

 

[BSP]

MK can plank really well, but other characters can do it too. i don't think that should be an arguement.

 

[Palpi]

This thread is incredibly depressing. Not because of the beginning players who don't have a clue (I used to belong to this crowd), not because of the way some people react, and certainly not because I think that the people voting no are misguided idiots. No. It's sad because even with a majority vote, it will be almost impossible to get Metaknight banned. There is no way in hell that this community will get the 2/3s vote unless a lot (in the hundreds) of disgruntled players show up all of a sudden.

And I'm definitely disgruntled. I have my group of friends, and I like to think I'm better than them. I am the best in my playgroup. My Snake, my Marth, my Luigi-all three are at really high levels. And it pisses me off that despite my knowledge of the matchup, I literally cannot beat my friend's MK with luigi. And this is the friend who is just terrible at brawl. I can manage him with my marth almost, but then there's this other friend who plays mostly toon link. I can beat him with snake about 75% of the time, but he's not easy. Then he switches to MK and if I want to beat him, I either have to get lucky or use MK myself. It's come to a soft ban here too-nobody except for the noobs use MK (the noobs being the casual guys who drop in for some 4-minute FFAs sans items and with stage legality) because MK is gay.

Now to the part of the argument that isn't based on my less than ideal skill level. The concept that MK isn't broken by the definition of other fighting games is well and good. But since when is brawl defined by other fighting games? Since when do fighting games rely on ring outs to win entirely, rather than as an alternative? Since when do fighting games have multiple jumps? Since when do fighting games not have life bars, but instead procents and it goes up and you don't die if it hits 100? You can't compare SSBB to a normal fighter. The idea that the metagame is advancing is true, it just happens to be advancing with metaknight faster than with anyone else, and while some chars have hit the "roof" of their abilities (I saw a thread about this on the ROB boards; it seemed pretty logical and made a lot of sense) Metaknight is far above everyone else and there doesn't seem to be a sign of a roof anywhere. Maybe somewhere around mars. In addition, the whole metaknight planking aspect puts a whole new turn on the "Brawl is unfun" aspect. I'm currently helping to design a game called Super Smash Flash 2, a flash version of SSB. And in a recent thread, we made it very clear-SSF2 should be more like melee than brawl. Fighting a campy metaknight is unfun. Fighting a planky metaknight is 6 seconds of getting tornado'd or damaged otherwise 7 minutes and 54 seconds of twiddling your thumbs and waiting for the match to end so you can lose.

I don't understand why he isn't seen as dominant and I don't understand why people can say no to banning him unless you play him yourself. Slippery slopes are utterly invalid because the next best char has bad matchups and bad stages; most concepts against banning him have been debunked or proven inconsequential.

Reading this was the biggest waste of time in my entire life.

Marth is good against a metaknight that is HORRIBLE at brawl. He'll keep getting grabbed and have bad spacing, 2 things Marth needs to win the match-up.

Your OH SO HIGH LEVEL luigi cant beat a metaknight either because you're bad which might not be the reason, the other reason is that luigi is a bad character.

Oh, marth had more overall tourney placgings in melee than metaknight according to AA's post.

 

[Falconv1.0]

In other news

****ing Genesis. It happened.

 

[Brinzy]

What happened, Falconv1.0? What happened!?

 

[Matador]

Fakinha, the problem with your arguments is that MK can do everything you mentioned, better and faster with none of the weaknesses of the other chars.

MK is not a God of a character. He has his weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Just because you don't know what they are or how to use them to your advantage doesn't mean they don't exist or matter.

Snake has to play incredibly defensive the entire game; losing the lead means that MK can camp and plank and then snake has to either cook grenades ridiculously well, time C4 with godlike skill, or approach. And snake is terrible at approaching.

Plank would NEVER be able to plank Ally. The only people you hear ***** about planking are MKs that don't want to be banned for it, and characters that can't deal with it.

Falco and Peach have no answers for planking. Too ****ing bad for them. It's a bad matchup, just like if we found that Kirby has a 0-70 CG on Wario. Pikachu and Sonic have answers to planking, as well as a large portion of the cast, including Snake. Planking should NOT be a reason for banning MK, just like how the infinites D3/ICs have shouldn't be a reason for banning them.

60 damage against a good MK is actually really really hard. At least, 60% and then killing him. Missing with the fart is easy; it takes a long time to charge to kill levels again. Marth is outranged by MK. Peach can't do that and even if she could, MK has the Gilde attack->5xUair->tornado 0-death on most.

I swear....if MK gets banned thanks to your deplorable vote and your SHALLOW excuse for an argument, I'm grabbing my hatchet and hunting you and the rest of proban down.

 

[UberMario]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jYJ-Yjf3w&feature=channel_page

That's now in my top 5 of stupidist Brawl matches EVER. That Luna was outright cowardly and what he/she/potato did was unnecessary.

 

[Rykoshet]

People are making this big *** deal that ally is now 2 and 2 or 2 and 3 or what the **** ever with m2k or some **** and think it's some big *** revolution for the game.

It isn't. The very FIRST time m2k played ally he later dropped by and said that in friendlies they pretty much went even. It comes as no surprise that as ally got better and time progressed that their record might *gasp* even out. Mother ****er lost the very next week. This is the same **** as when NL went 2-0 on m2k then it took people forever to realize that when jason finally picked up on him he straight up mopped the floor with diddy kong.

 

[mikeray4]

which is why i'm maining mk if he's not banned lol to SOLVE my problems.

yeah except MK isnt your worst match up marth and olimar are better against you than MK is. Plus regarding the validity of the low tier characters. In fact MK is making the low tier characters more viable than they would without him. Since marth has 60-40 match ups with all low tier characters and maybe more, while MK does destrory too, its not as bad as marth since MK does have a 55-45 on a low tier character(bowser). So yeah Mk takes out marth leaving a bowser main having a chance to do well in tourneys because he only has to face a 45-55 match up instead of a 60-40. Also with ness and lucas mains, GW and Marth will **** them down farther into the lower tiers because Marth and GW wont be taken out by MK. (Marth has 70-30 on lucas and ness(GW has 80-20) while MK only has 60-40's)

 

[Atlus8]

This thing is still going on? Dwaaaam

 

[Fakinha]

Fakinha, the problem with your arguments is that MK can do everything you mentioned, better and faster with none of the weaknesses of the other chars. Snake has to play incredibly defensive the entire game; losing the lead means that MK can camp and plank and then snake has to either cook grenades ridiculously well, time C4 with godlike skill, or approach. And snake is terrible at approaching. 60 damage against a good MK is actually really really hard. At least, 60% and then killing him. Missing with the fart is easy; it takes a long time to charge to kill levels again. Marth is outranged by MK. Peach can't do that and even if she could, MK has the Gilde attack->5xUair->tornado 0-death on most.

Peach can't do that with MK? Oh boy, you need to see djudjo, a brazilian peach player. He eat MKs in the breakfast.

That's the problem with Snakes =\ But he can fight almost equally against MKs. Not get gimped/early killed is the key. And that depends on your mind.

Missing Wario's fart depends on your mind game. And it's not THAT hard give 60% dmg to MKs.

Oh yeah ._.' sorry, Marth is outranged... But he can do %s on MKs with side Bs, upb out of the shield (risky) and a fsmash sweetspoted kills MK with 40%+-. Depends.


But the main point of the post is to say that things don't go like combo videos, it depends on the mind... Or how do you explain m2k get beaten?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Reading this was the biggest waste of time in my entire life.

Your OH SO HIGH LEVEL luigi cant beat a metaknight either because you're bad which might not be the reason, the other reason is that luigi is a bad character.

Oh, marth had more overall tourney placgings in melee than metaknight according to AA's post.

You're discrediting my post because I can't beat Metaknight with Luigi. You missed the part that he loses to me with everyone else, doesn't main MK, and beats my snake more often than not with his secondary MK. And I'm not saying either me or my friend are high level-we're at that mid-level mentioned in the OP that is slowly gravitating to Metaknight. Lrn2read. And TBH, if that's the only reason it fails, then either read it again or stop throwing pointless arguments out for no reason.

MK can plank really well, but other characters can do it too. i don't think that should be an arguement.

Yeah... Well MK can do it better than anyone else. And then he's still the best without these tactics.

air camping>>planking

and there is no way half the people in a tourney use meta knight

That's what it'll end up as. And then it'll be 3/4ths. Then mostly except for a small minimum. Did you read the arguments about mid-level players?

 

[Rykoshet]

yeah except MK isnt your worst match up marth and olimar are better against you than MK is.

One of 2 are correct. Marth's best thing going for himself is the ability to gimp ike, and MK still does it better. Counter is a joke of an edgeguard, you can force marth to turn the other way. As for the other matchup, ike can reliably 0-death olimar. If he gets a hand on olimar, olimar dies. MK is easily his worst matchup in the right hands, since ike's worst counterpick is a player that just isn't dumb.

 

[Cactuar]

I summon cactuar and mango!

What's up?

*shifty eyes*

I don't like it here.

 

[Roxaslawliet]

MK being banned would be pretty cool

 

[MaNg0]

why are u guys banning mk god **** dam

IS HE THAT BAD

that little *** didnt even win genesis

U GUYS ARE ALL GAY and when i c mk banned ima laughed

cause it just backs up everything i ever thought about the brawl

community ... SCARED LITTLE FELLAS ..... ill be playing melee ... where

characters ****.. AND WE DEAL WITH IT and we **** them

ps. ima puff player ...

also pink mk ***** ..

 

[UberMario]

Yeah... Well MK can do it better than anyone else. And then he's still the best without these tactics.

How do you figure? I know at least Pit's better . . . .

 

[BSP]

This thread is incredibly depressing. Not because of the beginning players who don't have a clue (I used to belong to this crowd), not because of the way some people react, and certainly not because I think that the people voting no are misguided idiots. No. It's sad because even with a majority vote, it will be almost impossible to get Metaknight banned. There is no way in hell that this community will get the 2/3s vote unless a lot (in the hundreds) of disgruntled players show up all of a sudden.

And I'm definitely disgruntled. I have my group of friends, and I like to think I'm better than them. I am the best in my playgroup. My Snake, my Marth, my Luigi-all three are at really high levels. And it pisses me off that despite my knowledge of the matchup, I literally cannot beat my friend's MK with luigi. And this is the friend who is just terrible at brawl. I can manage him with my marth almost, but then there's this other friend who plays mostly toon link. I can beat him with snake about 75% of the time, but he's not easy. Then he switches to MK and if I want to beat him, I either have to get lucky or use MK myself. It's come to a soft ban here too-nobody except for the noobs use MK (the noobs being the casual guys who drop in for some 4-minute FFAs sans items and with stage legality) because MK is gay.

Now to the part of the argument that isn't based on my less than ideal skill level. The concept that MK isn't broken by the definition of other fighting games is well and good. But since when is brawl defined by other fighting games? Since when do fighting games rely on ring outs to win entirely, rather than as an alternative? Since when do fighting games have multiple jumps? Since when do fighting games not have life bars, but instead procents and it goes up and you don't die if it hits 100? You can't compare SSBB to a normal fighter. The idea that the metagame is advancing is true, it just happens to be advancing with metaknight faster than with anyone else, and while some chars have hit the "roof" of their abilities (I saw a thread about this on the ROB boards; it seemed pretty logical and made a lot of sense) Metaknight is far above everyone else and there doesn't seem to be a sign of a roof anywhere. Maybe somewhere around mars. In addition, the whole metaknight planking aspect puts a whole new turn on the "Brawl is unfun" aspect. I'm currently helping to design a game called Super Smash Flash 2, a flash version of SSB. And in a recent thread, we made it very clear-SSF2 should be more like melee than brawl. Fighting a campy metaknight is unfun. Fighting a planky metaknight is 6 seconds of getting tornado'd or damaged otherwise 7 minutes and 54 seconds of twiddling your thumbs and waiting for the match to end so you can lose.

I don't understand why he isn't seen as dominant and I don't understand why people can say no to banning him unless you play him yourself. Slippery slopes are utterly invalid because the next best char has bad matchups and bad stages; most concepts against banning him have been debunked or proven inconsequential.

First, Luigi just has a straight out bad matchup with mk. And the friend swiching from toon link to mk was being smart. That was just him counterpicking wisely. (didn't put him at an advantage or you at a disadvantage, but it went from 60:40 to around 50:50). And i saw fun in your arguement, but someone already went on about that so yeah.

 

[KevinM]

What's up?

*shifty eyes*

I don't like it here.

*has been moderating this thread for the last few days*

Why would you willingly come here Cactuar of Cactus land

 

[Palpi]

You literally said my 3 characters are at a high level of play.

Metaknight is harder to use than snake at a low level. Press B twice, then walk forward and press A. That is like for a 3 year old instructions.