okay so i do believe that the 2 least fair neutral stages are FoD and Final. they can pose as a big problem to non-campy characters and being able to only ban one of them brings up the possibility of the other one coming up on random (1/5 chance). i hate seeing this happen, where a falcon will ban FoD and get FD against a falco, which is just as bad if not worse. if FoD is going to stay neutral.. at least give us a reset to use should FD come up; most tournament hosts have dropped the reset rule and it's really, really biased against certain characters..
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Fountain of Dreams - why is it neutral?
- Thread starter Hax
- Start date
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
"This stage is wack, wanna restart for a different one?"
Lol just kidding, but I definitely agree about FoD.. Hate it so much.
Lol just kidding, but I definitely agree about FoD.. Hate it so much.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
This is the stage strike rule ZoSo uses at RIMM (I like it better than one/no strikes).
He also makes FoD a counterpick so that there are an odd number of neutrals.
What about Yoshi's Story? That's almost an auto-win for Fox/Marth.
Asking for a reset for the FoD/FD situation will inevitably lead to everyone asking for a reset on stages they don't like. In that case, we might as well forget the idea of neutral stages in the first place.
Asking for a reset for the FoD/FD situation will inevitably lead to everyone asking for a reset on stages they don't like. In that case, we might as well forget the idea of neutral stages in the first place.
Eggm
Smash Hero
Good question I hate that stage.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
No too late this has never been discussed seriously before because it's fine.
Mith_
Smash Champion
Yea lets make all non banned levels be neutral.
Kyu Puff, that ZoSo stage striking rule sounds amazing, and i really like it =) i think that should be used instead of the current rules
and 2.72, it should be a counterpick because the platforms add a huge luck factor to gameplay; some could argue the yoshi's story cloud does the same, but seriously you can edgeguard someone if they land on it anyway. FoD's platforms make characters like falcon flat out terrible.. FD isn't much better, but obviously that's not getting banned lol
and 2.72, it should be a counterpick because the platforms add a huge luck factor to gameplay; some could argue the yoshi's story cloud does the same, but seriously you can edgeguard someone if they land on it anyway. FoD's platforms make characters like falcon flat out terrible.. FD isn't much better, but obviously that's not getting banned lol
ThatGuy
Smash Master
Basically, the problem is that the "neutrals" aren't all that neutral after all. There are many examples where characters are put at significant disadvantages on supposedly neutral stages. If you try to fix one, then you have to fix them all, and that really can't be done without eliminating the idea of "neutrals" all together.
I like Zoso's rule, but once again I don't think you can move FoD to counterpick and allow stages like DL 64, FD and Yosh's Story to remain neutral. It would be very inconsistent.
I like Zoso's rule, but once again I don't think you can move FoD to counterpick and allow stages like DL 64, FD and Yosh's Story to remain neutral. It would be very inconsistent.
Metà
Smash Master
I was just discussing this the other day, but I do think it should remain neutral. It's no more unbalanced than PS (gay RANDOM transformations w/ walls and stuff), FD (no platforms wtf), YS (so small, plus cloud and random shy guys), or BF (f*cked up edges). Pretty much all the neutral levels have some element of imbalance, but the reason they're neutrals is because the things that make them unbalanced can be overcome.
I really wish there was something more broken about FoD though, like some random stage hazard that kills you. That way we could just ban it and not even debate it being neutral, lol
I really wish there was something more broken about FoD though, like some random stage hazard that kills you. That way we could just ban it and not even debate it being neutral, lol
The stage strike rule is needed in Brawl, but I don't think it's needed in Melee.
Players should have 1 ban and 1 Stage cancel.
Still, if you think it's necessary in Melee, you could just take the current SBR Melee ruleset:
Players should have 1 ban and 1 Stage cancel.
Still, if you think it's necessary in Melee, you could just take the current SBR Melee ruleset:
And put Rainbow cruise on counter pick (the star means it could be either).
Psychoace
Smash Champion
I like FoD lol.
Grunt
Smash Master
Me too. ???
Get rid of PS if anything, but still.
Get rid of PS if anything, but still.
otg
Smash Master
All of the neutral levels have some problem or another... this is no such thing as true balance.
FD - campers/CGers delight/no platforms
BF - edges are a nightmare and limit recovery options
DL - WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to god**** big, certain characters will just not die on this stage
PS - Transformations are the only big problem in this level, it's probably perfect normally.
FoD - **** those platforms (esp. vs. Falco)
YS - way too god**** small.
I dunno, just deal or ban it.
FD - campers/CGers delight/no platforms
BF - edges are a nightmare and limit recovery options
DL - WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to god**** big, certain characters will just not die on this stage
PS - Transformations are the only big problem in this level, it's probably perfect normally.
FoD - **** those platforms (esp. vs. Falco)
YS - way too god**** small.
I dunno, just deal or ban it.
soap
Smash Hero
OP is johns
how is FD bad for falcon?
how is FD bad for falcon?
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Or be smart like the Brawl community and use the stage striking system instead! Take turns removing one stage from the random list until only 1 remains,a nd that is your stage :DAll of the neutral levels have some problem or another... this is no such thing as true balance.
FD - campers/CGers delight/no platforms
BF - edges are a nightmare and limit recovery options
DL - WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to god**** big, certain characters will just not die on this stage
PS - Transformations are the only big problem in this level, it's probably perfect normally.
FoD - **** those platforms (esp. vs. Falco)
YS - way too god**** small.
I dunno, just deal or ban it.
Grunt
Smash Master
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Something like that. Take away one, or add in DK64 or some other stage that is close to neutral. Since you are stage striking, having stages that seem horribly one-sided for some matches and not for others isn't that bad; you can strike them and not waste your ban. Just have to make sure hte list is balanced.
Big_R
Smash Champion
ya get pokefloats junior outta there
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Or don't use a complicated system for no ****ing reason and just play the ****ing game with the random stage.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
g-regulate
Smash Hero
step it up hax
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
fod owns
stage elim system seems sexy to me though
stage elim system seems sexy to me though
Cups
Smash Ace
fd is bad against falcon if you've ever seen vidjo vs darkrain or watched n64 or zigzag chaingrab falcons from 0-death, or lastly, seen m2k 4 stock jiano twice in a row on fd with nothing but grabs as sheik. Falcon is garbs, it's just amazing players like darkrain and jiano and ss make us think differently.
There is no such thing as a neutral stage.
Personally, I think Yoshi's Story is worse than FoD because it's basically an auto win for Marth.
But then I main Falco... so I'd say that
Repeated for epic justice: There is no such thing as a neutral stage.
Personally, I think Yoshi's Story is worse than FoD because it's basically an auto win for Marth.
But then I main Falco... so I'd say that
Repeated for epic justice: There is no such thing as a neutral stage.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
Someone told me that if you want to have a good falcon on FoD you just need to be real slippery on the platforms
Winston
Smash Master
Stage Strike system is good in that it eliminates a random factor, but it does put better characters at even more of an advantage. An example that I remember from the last stage strike discussion I witnessed:
Fox vs Peach. Peach does decently well on FD and FoD, whereas Fox has more of an advantage on YS, DL64, Battlefield, and PS. (Yeah I know individual player preference affects things but this is just an example)
Depending on how the players ban, it's either 1/3, 1/4, or 1/5 chance that Peach gets to play on one of her stages. With stage strike, it's 0% chance that she gets to play on one of her stages.
Not saying this makes random stage better than stage strike, it's just something I wanted to point out if we're having this discussion.
Fox vs Peach. Peach does decently well on FD and FoD, whereas Fox has more of an advantage on YS, DL64, Battlefield, and PS. (Yeah I know individual player preference affects things but this is just an example)
Depending on how the players ban, it's either 1/3, 1/4, or 1/5 chance that Peach gets to play on one of her stages. With stage strike, it's 0% chance that she gets to play on one of her stages.
Not saying this makes random stage better than stage strike, it's just something I wanted to point out if we're having this discussion.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
On top of all the other **** this game has? On top of being the most unique competitive fighting game with non-competitive out of the box play that needs its settings heavily altered for competition and use of non obvious play mechanics we have to have the most complicated stage selection system (look at all the **** and the list that goes into picking a stage ROFL so many rules and specific tournament bs) we have to add even more? People who go to a tournament for the first time are completely overwhelmed and don't even take in all the rules we have. Look at any other game, melee's list of rules (stage related) for a tournament is ****ing ludicrous compared to anything else.
The japanese got it right in melee.
- Joined
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- 26,560
Altaz Link
Smash Apprentice
Lol that's what my friend says when he prat falls at the beginning of the match.
If any stage is gonna go from neutrals it really should be Poke Stadium.
FoD has moving platforms. Big deal. Cactuar's falcon is pretty sick on that stage. Every character has bad stages.
As Luigi, my recovery gets severely hurt on Battlefield but I would never consider it as a "non neutral" counterpick.
FoD has moving platforms. Big deal. Cactuar's falcon is pretty sick on that stage. Every character has bad stages.
As Luigi, my recovery gets severely hurt on Battlefield but I would never consider it as a "non neutral" counterpick.
otg
Smash Master
I wasn't saying that FoD should be banned, I was saying if you really hate FoD so much, ban it in tourney. I don't give a **** wat the Brawl community is doing lol.
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
lol Hax, FoD is okay for me sometimes.
but I always banned FD.. I just don't like it -.-
but I always banned FD.. I just don't like it -.-
Metà
Smash Master
What about the shy guys? I'm pretty sure they're random (or close enough), and can interrupt combos/cg's and intercept Ness and Luigi's recoveries.
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
I hate FD too. Autoban against anyone but HugS. =(
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
lolz
Not sure about the PS point although it is the most random/broken.
Agree with everything else though.
FoD is one of my favorite stages as Falcon, you just have to know how to use it... Falcon is **** there...