Floaty Purposes [MEWTWO GENERAL]

[Mister]

Don't hold jump.

I'm not holding jump, which is the problem.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I'm not holding jump, which is the problem.

Teleport is activated by holding down when you press the button for your second jump.
You need to release the jump button before entering the direction you want to wavedash.
So yeah, like you said: gotta perfect that timing!

 

[TheBOSS]

Okay so being an avid m2 player in melee (probably the best in cali) I have been dying to play him in 3.0..here's my first assessment:

Teleport is amazing. Teleporting first and saving your jump is godlike. Teleport slightly angled upward then use his hover to approach with an essentially lagless and safe fair.
Upthrow at low percentages is still great, especially on fast fallers. Como potential is epic. This should be how you also get a large majority of your KILLS. Abuse it.
Fthrow is cool looking but essentially useless, i'll have to mess with it more at lower percentages but for the most part avoid using it.
Dthrow is just as it was in melee..awesome. Dthrow to dtilt(s) to regrab is great or dthrow to fair or whatever is typically works.
Backthrow is mad strong just as it was in melee, use close to edge for gimp setups or at high percentages to kill on stages like fountain where the ceiling is high and upthrow wont kill.
Fair- larger hitbox than in melee, although the opponent is able to di it easier than in melee.
Dair...WAYYY improved, legitimate spike now. I love to teleport above people on platforms and come down with a dair or nair.
Nair- so goddlike...just as it was in melee, but maybe slightly stronger. Use this often. Teleport to instant nair is crazy, especially horizontally.
Bair- got a major upgrade as well, very strong. Can wall of pain with this and use teleport (T) to extend combo.
All his smashes are as they were in melee for the most part. Fsmash's range seems further and stronger as well.
Shadowball- charges slower than it did in melee, small uncharged shadowballs have crazy knockback...lol like it straight up needs to be nerfed eventually but we'll take it! ***SHADOWBALL TACTIC*** shadowball. teleport up or angled up. shadowball. jump shadowball. ITS CRAZY. I'll put up a video of this eventually...
Ftilt is still great just like it was in melee
Dtilt same
Uptilt is way stronger..use it.
CONFUSION- epic, finally reflects projectiles and it has crazy combo potential especially at lower percentages...Also...i think i did like 4 confusions in a row on a falcon last night and from there went into fair combos.
Disable- got a nice upgrade as well. cool thing to do is wavedash off the stage into reverse disable..you grab ledge and send ur opponent backward also while preserving your teleport and jump...use this.

All in all...this character is pretty crazy. He was hard to use/master in melee and he's even harder to use in PM to be honest. That being said...he's awesome, huge upgrade. His gimp potential now is off the charts using his teleport and being able to act out of it. There were more than a few matches last night where i had legitimate 0-deaths. If you get down his weight and teleport metagame then you can seriously wreck people. The fact that his grab is godlike and he has a very very strong upthrow kill is pretty OP.

Feel free to ask me any questions.

 

[Ogopogo]

It's easy to go right back into the ground immediately after hovering.

 

[jtm94]

His tail is so good. I was messing around with my friends and I was just wrecking with dtilt -> utilt-> uair -> uair -> anything. They're so fast and ftilt isn't bad either. I also love teleport -> shadow claw or nair.

I need to perfect the timing on bair and confusion. Sometimes I can't even decide how to gimp with all the options.

 

[Vale]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this (haven't gone back to read everything else yet): It looks like you can cancel hover with a double jump during and right after the startup. The sound effect for hover plays, the circle-gleam comes out, and then a bit after that you can't double jump. I think I was able to use it to gain a bit of horizontal distance, but it might have just been my momentum. Either way, there is a minimal extra gain (if any), though. I doubt it'll be very useful.

Also, should we have a "lab" thread (does "general" mean the social discussion or general mewtwo things)? I'd suggest a question thread too, but that can probably come later.

 

[MetaKnight0]

That hover thing I would wager is by design so you don't accidentally hover for a spilt second and then lose your double jump

I think a mechanics thread would be good to have so we can leave this thread for "omg I luv me mewtwo" and a mech thread for "lol fox vs my utilt"

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I'm loving people's reactions to their time with mew2, and I'm liking the number of people interested so far, makes for a healthy meta. Also surprised at his final weight being at 97, it changed a lot during development. Also because of the increase in weight, he doesn't get knocked down by shine anymore, in case anyone is interested.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Cool news all around, but has anyone watched his tail during an all-out sprint. Thing's wagging like a ******** puppy's.

 

[Vale]

That hover thing I would wager is by design so you don't accidentally hover for a spilt second and then lose your double jump

I think a mechanics thread would be good to have so we can leave this thread for "omg I luv me mewtwo" and a mech thread for "lol fox vs my utilt"

Alright, I'll make a mechanics thread soon.

 

[SmashBroski]

He's about the same weight as Melee Yoshi. His jumpsquat is probably the same as Melee, which is 6 frames.

So Mewtwo's at 108? (one pound? more than Brawl Wario and Yoshi)

Huh, I've never been able to notice it.

 

[Shell]

Mewtwo is actually at 97 weight at the moment (vs. 85 in Melee)

We did experiment with some higher values for weight but the combination of heavy weight, massive DJ + DJ extender, hover, and normal-fall-Teleport made his longevity even more ridiculous than it is now... I realize this isn't 100% canonical but something had to give and weight was the least interesting thing to keep buffed from a competitive kit standpoint. Still higher than Melee, though.

 

[SmashBroski]

Mewtwo is actually at 97 weight at the moment (vs. 85 in Melee)

We did experiment with some higher values for weight but the combination of heavy weight, massive DJ + DJ extender, hover, and normal-fall-Teleport made his longevity even more ridiculous than it is now... I realize this isn't 100% canonical but something had to give and weight was the least interesting thing to keep buffed from a competitive kit standpoint. Still higher than Melee, though.

So he weighs less than Wario, Wolf, and Lucario and is more similar to Mario, Sonic and Luigi?

That's fair enough given his recovery options.

 

[AncientPancakes]

Someone please help me out here.

Once i grab the ledge, i try to hit back and then hover so that I can do a bunch of bairs. But probably 8 out of 10 times I get double jump instead of hover. I can get hover to work everytime when I am onstage, so I am very confused. I know that it is doable because i've gotten it to work, but only rarely.

 

[Shell]

Grabbing the ledge does not refresh your hover.

You can only hover from the ledge if you kept it saved, and even then you can only use it that one time off the ledge.

We saw a lot of really silly ledge camping when hover refreshed on ledge grab, so we opted to just keep hover refresh to being on the ground. Sorry that this was confusing.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Is there a way to increase the amount of time you can hover?Instead of 60 frames,lets make it 9001!

Then people can just stall the matches and win!

Really though Mewtwo is pretty cool.

 

[DrinkingFood]

We saw a lot of really silly ledge camping when hover refreshed on ledge grab, so we opted to just keep hover refresh to being on the ground. Sorry that this was confusing.

Honestly I find it kind of silly that it doesn't refresh his hover on edge grab. Because of how his trade-off for jump works, it almost feels like an alternative to jump, and feels as if it should work the same way in all cases as a jump, just slower and omni-directional
Reducing campiness feels like a pretty lame reason, it's not like there aren't other characters (I'm looking at you, jiggs) that have incredible potential for edge campiness
The thing is, how many people abuse that? It's rarely ever seen. I find Ike's walljump change in (2.5?) to be the exact same thing. Nobody ever abused that. Limiting a player's options for every game every time a player uses their character seems like a really awkward solution to something that's only every going to be a reality in one-in-a-thousand tournament matches, or less. I can only think of one match I've ever seen in which a jigglypuff abused edge camping to the extreme of a time out, out of how many matches that have ever happened? I know my sampling method isn't exactly perfect, but you can look for yourself. It's not brawl, and for some reason, nobody feels encouraged to edge camp that hardcore in P:M or melee.
In a playtesting environment, I have no doubt you would see that kind of stuff. Were I play testing Jiggs for the first time, I'd revel in seeing exactly how much time I can spend in the air offstage with the floatiest, five-jumpiest, most aerial-mobiliest, side-b falling speed stalliest character in the game. Having access to new stuff encourages using it to extremes. I have no doubt that, if it became a regular thing to refresh hover on edge-grab, people would get used to having it and stop using it just because they can and move on to learning and using the rest of the character, using it only when necessary.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I can only think of one match I've ever seen in which a jigglypuff abused edge camping to the extreme of a time out, out of how many matches that have ever happened?

You must have missed M2K vs Hbox before M2K started winning.

 

[GunBlaze]

Honestly I find it kind of silly that it doesn't refresh his double jump on edge grab.

Double jump is restored upon ledgegrab. Hover isn't.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Double jump is restored upon ledgegrab. Hover isn't.

**** i meant hover fixed it lol
hate when I make typos that aren't just one letter but like a whole ****ing word or phrase

 

[Haloedhero]

Hover may have the ability to fill a similar role to double jump, but it also has the ability to do so much more, and double jump is hardly as versatile in offstage situations. That's why the decision to not refresh it on grabbing the ledge was made. Also, it's far easier to stall on the ledge using hover than it is with double jump, since you can't grab the ledge until the double jump is over or you djc out of it, in which case the move you djc with has to end before you can grab.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

What should I be using for recovery the hover or his second jump?

 

[Rikana]

Second jump -> aerial at peak for extra height.

Try experimenting with teleport > dj with aerial at peak

 

[SpiderMad]

Reducing campiness feels like a pretty lame reason, it's not like there aren't other characters (I'm looking at you, jiggs) that have incredible potential for edge campiness

The thing is, how many people abuse that? It's rarely ever seen. I find Ike's walljump change in (2.5?) to be the exact same thing. Nobody ever abused that.

Limiting a player's options for every game every time a player uses their character seems like a really awkward solution to something that's only every going to be a reality in one-in-a-thousand tournament matches, or less.I can only think of one match I've ever seen in which a jigglypuff abused edge camping to the extreme of a time out, out of how many matches that have ever happened?

I know my sampling method isn't exactly perfect, but you can look for yourself. It's not brawl, and for some reason, nobody feels encouraged to edge camp that hardcore in P:M or melee.

I have no doubt that, if it became a regular thing to refresh hover on edge-grab, people would get used to having it and stop using it just because they can and move on to learning and using the rest of the character, using it only when necessary.

They're trying to not create any more ledge campers (RIP Pit's arrow changes), a step higher would be weakening the pre-existing ones of Sheik's Shino stall from Melee and such.

I can slightly see where they got angry at infinite WJs (which weren't infinite for words sake after so many they staled height), I don't think Ike's specifically was that abusable in stalling but I think giving him 3 would be better than 2 like it is now.

M2K has done it a lot now, and ChiboSempia vs some Falco was another. I even do it, I'm also abusive with my squirtle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HSwlepJGGa0#t=137
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbG8Mpt_2iw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShM11mV7wMI#t=77

people wouldn't stop using it just because they can, you can't rely on trust to not abuse things if it does actually surmount to be useful to win.

 

[Virum]

So he weighs less than Wario, Wolf, and Lucario and is more similar to Mario, Sonic and Luigi?

That's fair enough given his recovery options.

Actually PM Wolf is significantly lighter than Mewtwo. Wolf's weight in PM is 85. It's been like that since Demo 2.0.

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

Disable- got a nice upgrade as well. cool thing to do is wavedash off the stage into reverse disable..you grab ledge and send ur opponent backward also while preserving your teleport and jump...use this.

All in all...this character is pretty crazy. He was hard to use/master in melee and he's even harder to use in PM to be honest. That being said...he's awesome, huge upgrade. His gimp potential now is off the charts using his teleport and being able to act out of it. There were more than a few matches last night where i had legitimate 0-deaths. If you get down his weight and teleport metagame then you can seriously wreck people. The fact that his grab is godlike and he has a very very strong upthrow kill is pretty OP.

Feel free to ask me any questions.

Can you explain the Disable part again? I am trying to understand it, but I wrote a 3 hour exam, 7-10pm and my brain is gone. Maybe I'll figure it out tomorrow, but if you could help that'd be nice. It sounds very good.

 

[TheBOSS]

wavedash off the ledge tap forward to reverse your action immediately downB and it will put u directly in front of the ledge. The downB (disable) has a weird hitbox from what i've messed around with and hits behind mew2 as well as forward. You can just hover to grab ledge from that action or attack from there/teleport. Wavedashing off the stage and choosing to attack with bair or nair is amazing as well, probably even more useful come to think about it. Also, mew2's disable also "disables" the enemy even if he isn't facing the enemy now.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Is it just me or is the fact that it keeps switching between his in-game cries and movie voice really annoying?

 

[ss118]

Mewtwo is disorienting to have on the field. This is a good thing, I like the way he plays and moves around but unfortunately his moves from melee are still slightly below average, but hopefully the lack of a completely awful tail and his interesting movement options make him not ****... which at this point, I would say is true.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Is it just me or is the fact that it keeps switching between his in-game cries and movie voice really annoying?

It's his Melee voice, not his movie voice. One of them is his japanese voice, which is actually the same as his english voice, except for times where his actual phrases are left out in the english version, like one of his victory phrases being "o na kana" or something like that, I can't into japanese. That said, the only clip from the pokemon games is MewTwo's cry.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Japanese Mewtwo is wayyyyy badass. "Erahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!"

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Watashi wa makeru wake niwa ikanai!

 

[RaynEX]

Protip: if you hold up (on the dpad) during Mewtwo's meditation taunt, he continues to float until you release the button.

 

[teluoborg]

We must be in April right now because this update has SO MANY EASTER EGGS.

Nice find.

​

 

[Nausicaa]

Ending combos with Down-B to kill off the side blast-zones is fun.

 

[StriderAaron360]

Do you guys use dash attack for anything? I know it's ending lag isn't the best, and you can always wavedash into d-tilt or whatever, but I want to make use of every tool Mewtwo has.

 

[Vale]

Looking at replays of games where I've tried using it, dash attack seems to be a great way to set up your opponent's combos.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Do you guys use dash attack for anything? I know it's ending lag isn't the best, and you can always wavedash into d-tilt or whatever, but I want to make use of every tool Mewtwo has.

Ehh...You can use it to catch your opponent off guard every now and again. It quickly links into a Utilt, which in turn can start a nice juggle. But 9 times out of 10 you have a better option than using a dash attack with Mewtwo.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah, the thing is a bad alternative to a lot of his other moves.

 

[StriderAaron360]

Yeah, I thought so; I've just been trying to ask as many questions as possible.