Floaty Purposes [MEWTWO GENERAL]

[xFumbles]

taj helped make mewtwo:m and played him and loved him though

 

[jtm94]

I'm super looking forward to M2. I'm just a casual who just started getting competitive, I've been sinking some time into Melee M2 and I can see how he's such a great shell of a design, but he wasn't quite filled.
I see a lot of teleport discussion and I don't really think it's broken in comparison to a lot of things. I agree that the teleport shouldn't be as fast if you tp grounded to ground, that just opens up a pandora's box of moves and then you could indeed shorten it by going diagonally into the ground giving unparalleled movement options at a whim. It is still really fast to platforms, that vid of him going to the top of battlefield is amazing, but it for sure isn't broken. Even with M2 being able to act out of it, he needed some better approach options regardless imo, because in Melee he has an extremely hard time getting in on anyone that spaces him a moderate amount, so he gets some approach and retreat/recover utility out of it now instead of just recovery. Also playing Zelda, his teleport isn't broken. Though he is faster than her, she has the wavedash out of grounded teleport and she can go anywhere making her unpredictable, though she does indeed have less movement options than M2 who now has hover. Compared to the still Melee focused meta game he should fit in nicely.

 

[DrinkingFood]

a buffed Melee Mewtwo with very few new moves is very narrow minded and a little disappointing imo. I'd like him to get more of an Roy:M treatment (besides having the same B as Marth); lots of new animations without changing the overall feeling of the character.

adittedly I kind of agree with this, I wouldn't have minded seeing a few of his moves just straight up replaced with new animations that function similarly but better. Like ftilt. Could have had a grounded shadow claw that worked like melee ftilt but hit higher. The character has a lot more potential for renewed animations that wasn't tapped into.

I'm overall pleased to see his return, tho. At least the new model and some changed graphical effects make him feel newer. I know I'm going to enjoy playing him, I just wish I had gotten to have the same kind of WOW I had when I saw his hover or like half of Roy's moveset/animations being updated for some of mewtwo's actual attacks.

 

[xFumbles]

to everyone thinking mewtwos teleport is a bad approach....WHY? its so fast, can go in every direction for mix ups, and you can turn around while in mid teleport. that means from someone just standing still, he could tele>fair, tele diagonal up>dair, tele>bair, or just tele>nair! explain to me how teleporting could be a bad approach / baiting game?

 

[DrinkingFood]

to everyone thinking mewtwos teleport is a bad approach....WHY?

It goes a set distance, and mewtwo's aerials don't have the best coverage or priority. Better than his melee aerials, granted. But it's not like he's going in there with Falco's or Peach's aerials. Fighting MewTwo is probably going to revolve around trying to bait out Teleported aerials early in the meta because for a brief period it'll see like such a free, easy approach.

I could be completely wrong on that prediction or partially wrong. If that's the case, I hope teleport gets some tweaks, like the ones I suggested early- Slower to act out of (Maybe ten frames instead of five?) but able to be shortened.

 

[ItalianStallion]

to everyone thinking mewtwos teleport is a bad approach....WHY? its so fast, can go in every direction for mix ups, and you can turn around while in mid teleport. that means from someone just standing still, he could tele>fair, tele diagonal up>dair, tele>bair, or just tele>nair! explain to me how teleporting could be a bad approach / baiting game?

It's not necessarily a bad approach, but it's not what some are claiming it to be. Based on Melee Mewtwo experience, and what I've seen of PM Mewtwo, teleport approaches will be good, but situational. They will not be broken or uber powerful. Ike's quickdraw will still probably be better. Teleport has a set distance, is easy-ish to predict, and requires smart play to use. Also, Mewtwo's aerials are pretty situational.

PM Mewtwo's strengths seem to be similar to his Melee counterpart:
1. A God at recovering.
2. Great at edgeguarding.
3. Bag of tricks.
4. Very solid movement.
5. Decent low percentage combo game.

His weaknesses seem to be present also:
1. Large, combo-able target.
2. Tail Hurtbox.
3. Neutral is hard work.
4. Can't deal with foes diagonally above and in front of him (Peach, etc.).
5. Hard time with Disjoints (Swords, etc.).

This is a rough list though. I might have forgotten stuff.

 

[Shadow Huan]

taj helped make mewtwo:m and played him and loved him though

wasn't that my point?

@DrinkingFood: glad that I'm not the only one that thinks so

 

[Rikana]

It goes a set distance, and mewtwo's aerials don't have the best coverage or priority. Better than his melee aerials, granted. But it's not like he's going in there with Falco's or Peach's aerials. Fighting MewTwo is probably going to revolve around trying to bait out Teleported aerials early in the meta because for a brief period it'll see like such a free, easy approach.

Agreed.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I don't remember mew2's aerials ever being mediocre, except dair...that move didn't do anything lol.
But yeah, once 3.0 comes out I think it would be more appropriate for all of us to focus solely on developing his meta, instead of idea suggestions and such (so get them out there now lol). I know I'll probably get quite the neck beard figuring out new stuff out with him.

 

[ItalianStallion]

I don't remember mew2's aerials ever being mediocre, except dair...that move didn't do anything lol.
But yeah, once 3.0 comes out I think it would be more appropriate for all of us to focus solely on developing his meta, instead of idea suggestions and such (so get them out there now lol). I know I'll probably get quite the neck beard figuring out new stuff out with him.

His aerials were mediocre in Melee for sure.
Dair you agree with.
Shadowclaw (Fair) was semi-powerful, but it had the tiniest range ever. That combined with Mewtwo's double jump being really slow meant that finishing somebody off with a fair for the kill was unlikely to happen.
Nair was an annoying move for the opponent, and might have arguably been his best aerial in Melee, but it was no game changer. It was mostly a Mewtwo player panic move because none of his moves besides nair have a decent coverage around his body.
Bair was a good edgeguarding move, but it wasn't that powerful, the sweetspot was weird, and the tail hurtbox prevented it from being a good disjoint like Jiggs bair or Marth's anything.
Uair was weak, didn't combo well, and the coverage was lacking.

In PM, they made all his aerials better. His aerials look solid. They are probably still slightly situational, but at least in PM, they look like they can get the job done really well. Bair and Uair look especially good, especially combined with the new Hover mechanic and the new act out of teleport mechanic.

 

[xFumbles]

I don't know if it was just me but...
Whilst watching Xanadu on Tuesday, GIMR's Samus used charge shot on Guy's Mewtwo from behind and...
The shot seemed to not connect with him until it reached the inner part of his tail. A few weeks ago, on JCeaser's stream, I saw a Ness Fsmash the tip of his tail and still hit.
DOES THIS MEAN HIS TAIL IS DISJOINTED NOW?

 

[DrinkingFood]

it might mean that his tail spends more time deeper in the z-axis now than it did before. I believe it was also confirmed that his tail hitboxes are now properly attached to his tail rather than being slightly larger than it.

The z-axis causes a lot of funny effects that appear strange at first because the game primarily gives you only one 2 dimensional view of the stage. I believe Tink's arrows will actually miss zelda's torso and waist during her side-b because of how she leans into the Z axis (this might have been changed idk). I actually wish PMBR would look into this for potentially creative design properties for moves. For example, I always wished that Ike's bair hitbox lingered long enough on his sword that it lingered into that area where his sword comes almost full circle and is in front of him but slightly off-center on the Z-axis. It would have a hard time hitting small characters, but using that **** to hit fatties would be pretty ****in' awesome. Also a lot of potential for things like natural, animation based dodges instead of those that function on invincibility. Seeing a character with a movement based special that put them far enough in the Z axis that they only could get hit by horizontally swinging moves or wide characters with body-sized hitboxes would be pretty cool.

anyway yeah, mewtwo... can't ****in' wait. Still wanting Galaxy Grinder, P:MBR plz, why does only peach get the stupidly high damaging smash attack

 

[Rikana]

Funny enough, there was a time where Mewtwo's fTilt was animated a bit too deep into the Z-axis. This allowed Mewtwo to dodge certain attacks that was going to hit his torso for a few frames. I thought it was really neat and hoped for it to stay but it didn't. It was a good way to counter projectiles at a close range such as Falco's laser.

 

[SpiderMad]

Funny enough, there was a time where Mewtwo's fTilt was animated a bit too deep into the Z-axis. This allowed Mewtwo to dodge certain attacks that was going to hit his torso for a few frames. I thought it was really neat and hoped for it to stay but it didn't. It was a good way to counter projectiles at a close range such as Falco's laser.

D3's got that in Brawl too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=079p47Y42Og

 

[DrinkingFood]

Funny enough, there was a time where Mewtwo's fTilt was animated a bit too deep into the Z-axis. This allowed Mewtwo to dodge certain attacks that was going to hit his torso for a few frames. I thought it was really neat and hoped for it to stay but it didn't. It was a good way to counter projectiles at a close range such as Falco's laser.

whaaaaatt why would they take that out that's cool as ****
and I know I would've made it work, I love jank **** like that and spam it until i know exactly what it works for
god damnit rest-of-P:MBR-or-who-ever-is-responsible-for-this
It's bad enough they haven't reverted ROB to 2.1 side-b

 

[GunBlaze]

whaaaaatt why would they take that out that's cool as ****
and I know I would've made it work, I love jank **** like that and spam it until i know exactly what it works for
god damnit rest-of-P:MBR-or-who-ever-is-responsible-for-this
It's bad enough they haven't reverted ROB to 2.1 side-b

OK, what did R.O.B.'s 2.1 Side-B do?

 

[DrinkingFood]

It carried no vertical momentum whatsoever when the move was initiated, allowed you to side-b at whatever height you pleased, including impossibly-close to the ground if done immediately out of a jump. That made you able to waveland perfectly (horizontally angled) out of that instant side-b, it was probably his coolest and trickiest movement option because you could mix up various distanced wavelands, a 0-frame soft landing, or another boost. It wasn't amazing because it had at least 5 (would be 4 now) frames of jumpstart before the start-up of the side-b, but it made up for his otherwise ****ty ground movement. All versions after carried some vertical momentum, meaning you can't get anything better than a ****ty triangle-jump type waveland out of it anymore if you try to insta-robodash out of a jump. 2.1 side-b had the most freedom because there wasn't any height that you couldn't get to with his side-b, you just had to wait for ROB to get to that height; the new version passes up that initial low-height boost no matter how early you use it. The only way to get that height is to wait until you are ~1 or 2 frames from landing after the peak of your jump, or by running off an edge before initiating it in the opposite direction, both of which are much less useful and could already be done with 2.1 side-b if you really wanted to. It seems like JCz didn't like that extra few frames wait, because he's a very rushdown heavy player, so made it so side-b carried vertical momentum such that insta-side-b off of a jump gave him the perfect height to put out a fair/bair/uair so he could basically rush in and aerial instead of the low-to-the-ground height that made perfect wavelands possible but was too low for aerials. I just hate when characters are dumbed down and lose some cool abilities in favor of simplifying abilities they already had. It's not like you couldn't already rush in with side-b immediately off of a jump for aerials, it just required better timing.

I need shorter way to explain that. Some time I'm going to make a video, I just need the doo-dads for recording things.

EDIT: Also I always forget to specify that I mean the aerial version. Should be obvious from reading the whole post, but until I typed that up I could imagine it being confusing. Grounded side-b is fine as is, it's better in more recent demos actually.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Oh that reminds me, I never got the chance to test this out, but can mewtwo still dodge samus missles by using down tilt?

 

[Rikana]

I'm surprised to see that the Mewtwo thread isn't as active as I thought it would be. Better for Mewtwo mains at least; hopefully we won't be swarmed with Mewtwo players.

 

[Kneato]

I'm surprised to see that the Mewtwo thread isn't as active as I thought it would be. Better for Mewtwo mains at least; hopefully we won't be swarmed with Mewtwo players.

I've been lurking here and the Kirby board quite a bit since they were announced. I much prefer this to the "what hats will look the cutest" going on over there

 

[Diddy Kong]

From what I´ve seen, all matches featuring Mewtwo vs Yoshi had Mewtwo as the winner.

Still think he´s too light though. I love seeing Mewtwo kick ass, just don´t like the low %s I see him dying on...

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I'm surprised to see that the Mewtwo thread isn't as active as I thought it would be. Better for Mewtwo mains at least; hopefully we won't be swarmed with Mewtwo players.

The swarms will come after release.

 

[DrinkingFood]

does mewtwo have a DJ-land? I figure no since the momentum values for the jump were probably ported from Melee but it was worth asking to know for sure since his path-based jump was borrowed from Peach [citation needed].

 

[ItalianStallion]

I've been lurking here and the Kirby board quite a bit since they were announced. I much prefer this to the "what hats will look the cutest" going on over there

It's obvious the cutest hat will be Mewtwo.

In terms of why it's so quiet, I think it's just because since the character isn't out yet, and most smashers didn't really use Mewtwo in Melee, a lot of people wouldn't have much to talk about til they got their hands in him.

EDIT: I mean on him! ON HIM!

 

[xFumbles]

i never played mewtwo, but now that he looks more...finished, i want to main him now

 

[Giygacoal]

Mewneto so stylish

 

[Rikana]

does mewtwo have a DJ-land? I figure no since the momentum values for the jump were probably ported from Melee but it was worth asking to know for sure since his path-based jump was borrowed from Peach [citation needed].

You mean like how Peach can dSmash oos? If so, then no. Mewtwo doesn't have that.

 

[Shadow Huan]

in reguards to weight, the only Pokémon that should be heavier than Mewtwo is Charizard.

floaty is fine. but also light? ugh. once again I hope that the "adjustment" is enough.

 

[xFumbles]

floaty, yet heavy....thats the best combination for s great character! imagine a heavy jiggs :O

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Is he at least heavier than he is in melee or the same?

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Lol yes he is a bit heaver, though I'm not sure if they've finalized his weight yet. A reasonable weight imo would be around ness's weight, especially considering how he still has one of the best recoveries in the game. Which btw ness's weight is 94, and that would be a 9 point increase, which is pretty substantial.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Ok thanks.

If only we went by pokemon weights than he would weigh much more.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Well if we went by pokemon standards he'd be banned to hell and back lol.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

he wouldn't even be in the game lol.Also gannondorf would be able to die by the Links because of the master sword...

 

[DrinkingFood]

You mean like how Peach can dSmash oos? If so, then no. Mewtwo doesn't have that.

yeah that's what i was wondering, thanks

 

[GunBlaze]

You mean like how Peach can dSmash oos? If so, then no. Mewtwo doesn't have that.

Peach can do THAT?!

floaty, yet heavy....thats the best combination for s great character! imagine a heavy jiggs :O

Spoiler

 

[DrinkingFood]

Jump->double jump ASAP->peach lands laglessly-> dsmash
5 or 6 frames slower than just a reguarly dsmash

 

[Shadow Huan]

floaty, yet heavy....thats the best combination for s great character! imagine a heavy jiggs :O

10

also DDD, as Gunblaze already pointed out. lol

 

[Silpheed]

Are you guys excited? Less than two weeks, now. This time feels like it's moving sooooo slow.

*

Rikana, was Mewtwo's workload passed around and shared between the various members, or was it a smaller more focused group who worked specifically on him?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

VERY Excited!

That last week of school is going to suck...and that monday before I get home...

It will be worth it because Mewtwo and Roy is in which were my main and a secondary.