Fire Emblem: The Discussion Thread (keep FE Fates story under spoilertags)

[Alacion]

asdf

Aleate's team is trolling me right now. I had Kjelle paired with Owain to take an attack from Olivia on the first enemy phase...who would have done no damage, but she had a Brave Sword and Lethality, which she activated with 10% activation. Owain support blocked it like a boss...only to have Olivia activate Lethality AGAIN to KO Kjelle. Then, because she had Galeforce, she was able to kill my Lucina (who had just survived an onslaught of Brave Sword/Astra BS from her counterpart thanks to Pavise and KOed her back with a meaty Aether and some help from Noire) with a THIRD activation of Lethality. -.-

Haha, that's pretty funny I knew Olivia was really weak which is why I gave her Lethality but I'm surprised it activated so many times. o.o

Pavise and Aegis are so amazing!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I didn't know Lethality could be blocked.

I need to get more of the children, but their parents haven't all the abilities I want to pass to them yet. Or max stats/

So far, Morgan and Yarne are the only children who's parents had both all the abilities I wanted to give them, plus the right stats to pass

 

[~Firefly~]

Haha, that's pretty funny I knew Olivia was really weak which is why I gave her Lethality but I'm surprised it activated so many times. o.o

Pavise and Aegis are so amazing!

Yeah, no kidding. I think the hardest unit on your team to deal with might've been Brady, actually. I had to give Owain a Brave Sword just so I could KO him before he got a chance to even counter-attack. Cecilia's Gale too strong.

Edit: You can also get a critical hit on a Lethality activation. It looks silly.

 

[KayB]

I'm using Libra as my only decent Bolt Axe user, b/c why not. I'm also using him as one of two magic walls, along with Maribelle.

I'm liking the special conversations the characters have with DLC past-hero characters more and more. Henry asking Dierdre if she wants to go out with him and go grave robbing is my favorite so far.

When do you get the Bolt Axe? I'm at Chapter 19 30+ hours in and I still haven't found one.

 

[~Firefly~]

Started a Lunatic file today, just cleared Ch. 2. It almost felt like Frederick was fighting alongside a team full of freshly-recruited Donnels.

 

[Mr. Johan]

When do you get the Bolt Axe? I'm at Chapter 19 30+ hours in and I still haven't found one.

It's a Renown Award, valued at 1800 points. Just need to go beat up a bunch of Spotpass teams for a while and let the points rack up. Then a Bolt Axe is available for every playthrough afterward in the Awards list, so you can get Libra going from the start if you wanted.

Good lord, those Spotpass teams. Fighting Sephiran's, Ike's, and the Black Knight's teams made me terrified of the Counter ability. I have to run away from the Warriors and War Monks just so I can align the fighters against them with ranged hits so they don't get bodied by the Counter hit.

 

[~Firefly~]

When I play against those spotpass teams on my file with super-grinded children, Counter is almost always the only thing I actually have to watch for. :x

 

[Mr. Johan]

I'm using first-gen fighters against these teams, so I could grind stats and skills and get results for the children, plus have the RD and PoR teams on my roster. Basically just hoping beyond hope MU+Chrom, Gaius+Sumia, and Donnel+Panne clear the map, with Maribelle and Kellam providing Rally support. It can get aggravating at times. :V

 

[KayB]

Counter is really the only reason anyone should go to the Warrior class imo.

 

[Ussi]

I'm pretty sure the bolt axe is a drop from a boss, late chapter though.. 23?

Keep saying first time lunatic runs should have +def MyUnit

 

[Raziek]

Demon Fighter tomorrow, get hyped!

 

[KayB]

Is the Demon Fighter class good though? Don't know much about it.

 

[Ussi]

Demon fighter is pretty much a better hero class that can use magic. Without the good skills though. Its like the best hybrid class since its axes + magic

 

[Reizilla]

Finally started using Donnel and 10 levels since becoming a hero, his glass sword still hasn't broken.

And my luck sucks. I was just about to kill Walmart with Chrom and Lucina gets hit thrice by reinforcements with accuracies of 38, 42 and 18.

 

[KayB]

Demon fighter is pretty much a better hero class that can use magic. Without the good skills though. Its like the best hybrid class since its axes + magic

Yeah, I looked up the DF skills and they didn't look too good. So they can use tomes? Or do you just mean they have high mag? Jeez, I need a damn bolt axe...

So does anyone recommend who should be a DF then?

EDIT: When I saw Quick Slash, I swear I thought it said Hit +10, not attack +10. Whelp That seems gahlike depending who gets the ability.

 

[Raziek]

Demon fighter is pretty much a better hero class that can use magic. Without the good skills though. Its like the best hybrid class since its axes + magic

It's no Sol, but Quick Slash goes super well with Galeforce builds!

Edit: @KayB:

They use Axes, Swords, and Tomes.

I plan on re-classing MU to Demon Fighter, as I've prepped for it with Axefaire and a couple other fun skills. Not sure if I have any other units with sufficient Str/Mag to make use of the Hybrid-ness.

I could do Morgan as- wait nope, Males only.

Henryzerker could do it, I suppose!

Edit 2 (Electric Boogaloo): If you need a Bolt Axe, summon L'Arachel's Spot Pass team and buy one from them. http://serenesforest.net/fe13/shop_guest.html

 

[KayB]

I'm thinking of putting Gregor and Vaike (or Fredrick) into that class. Gregor and Frederick really need a boost in stats, and Vaike already has an absurd amount of strength.

EDIT: Oh ****. It just occurred to me that I might finally have some use for Libra. Jajajaja

EDIT2:

Edit 2 (Electric Boogaloo): If you need a Bolt Axe, summon L'Arachel's Spot Pass team and buy one from them. http://serenesforest.net/fe13/shop_guest.html

Thanks for that, I'll do it when I have time.

By the way, will all these characters that appear via Spotpass appear later as characters that we can recruit via DLC? And are they one time things, or can we meet them again?

 

[Raziek]

Libra...... could do it, just because of how his stats balance out, but his growths are all low, so you'd just have a bad Demon Fighter.

Candidates I'd recommend based on BASE growths and what I estimate DF's class growths will be:

Ruffles (Virion)
Libra (Meh)
Henry
MyUnit (M) or Morgan (M)
Owain
BRADY (Like actually he does this really well I'd imagine)
Gangrel.

Everyone else is lopsided growthwise in one direction or another and can't really take strong advantage of the hybrid unless you spend a lot of time in a Pure Magic/Pure Str class to build up the bad stat. (Not recommended)

 

[Astraea31]

gonna play awakening sooon. can't wait!

 

[KayB]

Libra...... could do it, just because of how his stats balance out, but his growths are all low, so you'd just have a bad Demon Fighter.

Candidates I'd recommend based on BASE growths and what I estimate DF's class growths will be:

Ruffles (Virion)
Libra (Meh)
Henry
MyUnit (M) or Morgan (M)
Owain
BRADY (Like actually he does this really well I'd imagine)
Gangrel.

Dammit, so close. Libra really is pretty useless. And Virion? Really? I don't remember him having very good magic skills...

And Henry's easy for you to say since you've got him as Beserker for quite some time lol.

Wait, can we only have one Demon Fighter?

 

[Raziek]

Multiple Demon Fighters. Just repeat the DLC and get another Dread Scroll.

Also, yes, even Henry and Virion. Here are their base Growth spreads:

Henry
45 35 35 45 40 40 40
20
Virion
35 40 30 40 45 40 25 25

Important to note is the 35/35 on Henry for Str/Mag and Virion's 40/30. The main reason for this is Henry has Barbarian and Thief as alternate classes, and Virion has Mage as an alternate.

As Dark Mage Henry has 40/50, if you go Dark Knight it's 50/50. Henryzerker is 60/35.

Henry is an excellent hybrid unit.

 

[KayB]

Multiple Demon Fighters. Just repeat the DLC and get another Dread Scroll.

If that's the case, I suppose putting him as Demon Fighter is better than putting him as either a Sage, Dark Knight, Sorcerer, or what I have him right now, which is the standard War Cleric. I can have him learn how to use tomes while I'm at it.

 

[Raziek]

I decided to look into Libra's growths to see just how bad he is relative to everyone else.

45 HP. Average.
25 Str. REALLY BAD. Even Olivia has 35. The only units with less are pure mages like Miriel. I mean jesus, he's tied with Lissa.
35 Magic. Actually pretty good! tied with several magic users, and all around pretty solid.
45 Skill. Pretty dang high (Lon'Qu has 50), it's a shame skill is the least valuable stat.
35 Speed. Meh. He's only one step above the worst speed tier in the game (30 - Kellam, Gregor, Nowi, Maribelle), but unlike them (and the others in the 35 tier), he doesn't have the class sets to patch that up, topping out at 55 as a Mage/Sage.
45 Luck. Averageish.
25 Defense. Awful. The only more fragile units are Lissa and Maribelle, and that's not good for trying to be a melee class like War Cleric or DF.
30 Res. Solid.

End Verdict: All around pretty garbage. Your best bet would be to reclass him to a Mage/Sage/Sorc and just use him as a caster, but the other mages do it better anyway.

He's not even useful as a father, his max stat modifiers are trash, passing only 1 magic, 1 skill, and 1 res.

 

[KayB]

Libra for worst character in the game? I believe so. He's only good (more like decent) at being a wall against magic users (once he gets Renewal).

 

[Reizilla]

I decided to look into Libra's growths to see just how bad he is relative to everyone else.

45 HP. Average.
25 Str. REALLY BAD. Even Olivia has 35. The only units with less are pure mages like Miriel. I mean jesus, he's tied with Lissa.
35 Magic. Actually pretty good! tied with several magic users, and all around pretty solid.
45 Skill. Pretty dang high (Lon'Qu has 50), it's a shame skill is the least valuable stat.
35 Speed. Meh. He's only one step above the worst speed tier in the game (30 - Kellam, Gregor, Nowi, Maribelle), but unlike them (and the others in the 35 tier), he doesn't have the class sets to patch that up, topping out at 55 as a Mage/Sage.
45 Luck. Averageish.
25 Defense. Awful. The only more fragile units are Lissa and Maribelle, and that's not good for trying to be a melee class like War Cleric or DF.
30 Res. Solid.

End Verdict: All around pretty garbage. Your best bet would be to reclass him to a Mage/Sage/Sorc and just use him as a caster, but the other mages do it better anyway.

He's not even useful as a father, his max stat modifiers are trash, passing only 1 magic, 1 skill, and 1 res.

Where do you find all thus stuff?

 

[Raziek]

Where do you find all thus stuff?

http://serenesforest.net/fe13/index.html

Just about everything you could ever need to know about anything related to Fire Emblem can be found on Serenes.

On Libra: I don't think there IS a worse character, actually. If someone wants to make a case for one, I can evaluate it, because I'm not seeing one based on just looking at growths/bases.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Where do you find all thus stuff?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Libra

 

[~Firefly~]

I'm pretty sure the bolt axe is a drop from a boss, late chapter though.. 23?

Keep saying first time lunatic runs should have +def MyUnit

I did +Def -Skl MU for Lunatic on a whim. IDK if I like the idea of having reduced accuracy, but I'm pretty sure +Def gives +5% or something to Skl anyway, so it shouldn't be too bad...

And for what it's worth, I recall hearing that the growths currently posted on Serenes are inaccurate. I know there's a project underway to collect data from people's playthroughs to figure out what the growths actually are, but I don't know how far along it is.

 

[Raziek]

Even if inaccurate, it certainly shouldn't be by very much.

I'll be operating under the currently listed growths until more accurate versions are posted, at any rate.

 

[Ussi]

def 2ndary bonuses are +luck and +res

practically speaking

Libra isn't the worst character since he's useful in pre-promote heaven lunatic mode. You can use him as a healer who can at least take a hit if need be and comes with a good staff rank. On Hard mode there is never a reason to use Libra though.

Cynthia is pretty much useless because if you need fliers there are plenty you can have by chapter 13 (if Cordelia is married, later chapter if not). Being the daughter of Sumia traps her to suck offensively. In a practical run (meaning you aren't abusing skirmishes for supports), means you would have to marry off Sumia and then perhaps waste a a potentially good child you could have gotten. Sumia is not gonna give Cynthia good stats either, just a lot of speed and skill.

Cynthia can be good, but she's competing with other children and has a bad parent.

 

[Raziek]

I suppose that's fair, I was thinking primarily Hard mode, since that's probably the mode that matters the most. Normal is yawn, and Looney is so balls hard that it's a different game, but many people won't even play it, making Hard mode the most practical to discuss.

 

[Ussi]

tbh, Libra can at least be gotten in every run. Considering it would require support grinding to get all children, I'd say Cynthia is still worse considering you have to give up a better child character always in hard mode.

Libra could be the worst unit if you just want to count end game, which allows for grinding, so then its just stat caps, skills, and classes available. Though grinding allows you to ignore Libra's terrible growths.

 

[Raziek]

I'm not sure I follow you here.

You can have a bad Cynthia that is still better than Libra, and the only investment is summoning and facerolling 5-6 low level spotpass teams just to get the support.

 

[Ussi]

well i did say practically 2 posts ago.

If we are gonna allow grinding then.. Cynthia will generally beat out Libra in every stat cap and has access to all of his classes except demon fighter (meaning all those skills too).

Practically though Libra wouldn't hinder the team like getting Cynthia would.

 

[Reizilla]

http://serenesforest.net/fe13/index.html

Just about everything you could ever need to know about anything related to Fire Emblem can be found on Serenes.

On Libra: I don't think there IS a worse character, actually. If someone wants to make a case for one, I can evaluate it, because I'm not seeing one based on just looking at growths/bases.

Sweet. Thanks!

 

[Raziek]

I'm failing to see how the opportunity cost of recruiting a child negatively impacts them.

Am I to understand that you believe a child is only good if their parents are good enough to warrant use in your team, which would presumably negate the need to grind the support?

Or is it because Sumia has limited marriage options which are better used on other children? Because I can give you that one, lol.

Gaius, Chrom, Henry and..... Whoever the fourth is are all pretty solid Dads that you'd want to use on better kids than her.

 

[~Firefly~]

That would be Freddy.

Cynthia wound up being the one child I couldn't be bothered to put any effort into raising. After initially raising her to promotion, I've only deployed her to grind for supports. :x

 

[Ussi]

When i speak about practicality, i keep out grinding which would be akin to dlc, spotpass, and excessive skirmishes. If i allow that, then whats to stop me from just grinding Libra up to usefulness?

 

[Raziek]

Because you can easily and practically define "excessive grinding", based on the relative difficulty of grinding a unit into usefulness. Not super concretely, like gauging a unit's level in RD, for example, but the internal level cap mitigates that anyway.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume a little grinding as most people will do skirmishes to level. Spotpassing 15+ (arbitrary and random) times, sure, I'd say that's too much.

But is it too much to say, "Yeah, do a spot-pass or two to get Donny up a bit and he's good to go."?

It's all about RELATIVE effort.

We can compare units based on what results they produce given similar (and reasonable) treatment. Kind of like how we examine the effectiveness of stat boosters in RD, like who makes best use of the DB's Dracoshield.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Demon Fighter sounds cool, but I'm more interested in the DLC chapter itself. I'm itching to fight the Shadow Dragon/Heroes of Light and Shadow team. And then next week has both Archaeneans and Jugdrali combining forces to battle? Hyped.

I've always loves games where the present meets the past and connects in some way, and the DLC chapters haven't disappointed me yet.



By the way, the Fire Emblem: Awakening soundtrack will release on the 27th, but pre-orders can be taken now. 92 songs in total. I wonder if the DLC-only music is in it as well.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=TSCM-8