Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance | Final Chapter

[Overswarm]

Thank you sir for your reminder. It is appreciated.

 

[Beat!]

If you don't remember, Rajam would make posts replying to things in rvs when we were in post numbers 200. rajam began posting without reading all the thread, but you never questioned him.

Post #238?
There's a pretty big difference between giving your own opinion on an old case, and asking questions that have already been answered.

And you say it was a reply to an rvs post, but Zen has stated several times that he was being serious from the start, and that gord knew it. If that's true, then it wasn't rvs.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Post #238?
There's a pretty big difference between giving your own opinion on an old case, and asking questions that have already been answered.

And you say it was a reply to an rvs post, but Zen has stated several times that he was being serious from the start, and that gord knew it. If that's true, then it wasn't rvs.

Post 206 replies to gordito's 29, which was the list that started the whole x1 thing.

More importantly, you have yet to answer my original question. Why did you react differently to ranmaru replying to early posts then to rajam replying to early posts?

 

[Xivii]

because his actions were scummy. In case you didn't notice, i've kinda been on his case the whole ****ing game. I don't think i'm exactly slinging my vote around like a cudgel and instead using it like a precise tool, focusing it on an individual who has been acting in a bad light.

Which is exactly what i said.

Why the hell do you think i voted for x1? What kind of question is that? What answer are you hoping to achieve?

If you don't stop with this half-***** uber-aggressive brutish play that has no destination, i'm going to have to start ignoring you completely. Have a point to your questions. Don't just throw lines out and hope you catch something. That's how you get manipulated. You need a point.

sounds like sooomeone's getting a little emotional :b

: B

Cap

 

[Nicholas1024]

Raziek's posts caught my eye during the reread, so I decided to do a search on him and see what came up. The first thing I'd like to note is that his post count is extremely low. Only 10 posts total, and a couple of those are RVS.

Yes, Zen, you're free to call me Raz.

And yes, for the moment, this is all I have to say. You guys seem quite intense for RVS, BBR was casual as hell. xD

I mean yeah, I know there's no other way to pick someone other than latching on the first random thing, but this seems a bit much right off the bat. @_@

Well, as the saying goes: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

vote: Gordito

He got a lot of flack for this given for how he basically went "I dunno if this is a good idea", but did it anyway. Now watch his reaction.

So, X1-12 and Zen push for votes for pressure right away, Adumbrodeus HALF-commits, and Nabe and Glyph just parrot their way onto the wagon, and I get called out? Is this some sort of initiation right?

I'm not used to hyper-aggressive D1 play, I just went with the flow (emphasis added).

Calm yourselves down.

Personally, I have complete distaste for randomly zerg-rushing someone, especially when it's entirely based on meta. If anything, I find X1 and Zen jumping hard on Gordito suspicious, but all you guys have this meta-experience with each other, so I don't know what's well-founded and what ISN'T, because I haven't seen Gordito play before.

X1, why are you so content to push Gordito's wagon while letting Zen do all the work?

He backs off hard, saying he just went with the flow, and basically FoSing the people who started the Gord wagon.

@Razeik: Remember in Death Note where you read the cop scans correctly almost every day, but your scummates overrode your suggestions for framing?

@Adum
Regarding this quote, I need you to do me a favor. Go back into the scum QT for this game and check how the scummates overriding the framing thing happened. Did Raziek resist the suggestion, or just go with the flow? Also, could you give me a summary on how he played that game?

How the hell are you supposed to catch scum on Day 1? There's almost literally nothing to go on.

*cough* 480+ posts*cough*

Adding one vote for some pressure does NOT mean I condone the lynch, that means I'm looking to see some conversation.

Tell me, couldn't the exact same reasoning have applied to just about everyone else on the wagon? And yet you still go after them?

Again, I will stress that Nabe and Glyph ALSO parrotted and hopped the wagon with no real reasoning.

This really does strike me as a newbie scum trying to deflect attention. In fact, in my first game as anti-town (I was basically the SK from D2 onwards), I was under fire for being inactive, and my defense was basically "Look guys, I know I'm inactive, but these guys did it too, lynch them instead!" (Ronike's test subject mafia if anyone wants to check.)

After this, he just disappeared for two days, later popping in to offer this:

Just popping in to let you guys know that I'm not AWOL, I just haven't had a ton of time to read quite everything left.

I'll try to catch up and offer some opinions tonight.

This was on the 19th. He doesn't post again until the 23rd.

Ok, majorly sorry I've been gone so long guys, I got hella sick over the weekend. I'll spare you the details, but I've barely been conscious for the better part of two days. I'm going to do my best to get caught up and back in the game ASAP, I'm reading what I've missed now.

For the record, I checked his other posts during the two-day timespan where he claimed to be sick, and he hadn't posted anywhere on smashboards during those two days. However, this doesn't explain why he failed to deliver that promised post.

unvote

Ok, I'm caught up on the reading, albeit I had to do a bit of skimming. Problem I have now is I'm not sure where to jump in. If anyone has questions for me they still want answered, quote them or ask again, please. Meanwhile, I'm just going to give my base impressions of what's going on right now:

Nice way to cover himself. Basically, he dodges any questions tossed at him unless the person has remembered it during the time he lurked (almost a full week), and if there are any inconsistencies in the rest of his post, he can just reply "Oh sorry, I must have skimmed that."

On the Glyph case - I think that Glyph is probably town. I haven't looked into his claim of being in two other games, but if that's true, then being over-whelmed is quite likely. I dislike the self-vote, since that doesn't help anyone, but I can see that as a means of expressing his seriousness as town. There's a slim possibility it was a gambit, but with the replacement out, I highly doubt it.

Gordito(GLG)/X1/Zen shenanigans - I certainly dislike Gordito replacing out, especially since (IIRC), he didn't really provide a reason why. I'm not sure if I 100% believe he's scum though.

One thing that really doesn't sit well with me is Zen's playstyle. Hyper-aggressive town is a strange way to play. Yes, town needs to play aggressively, or scum can coast. But at the same time, lashing out at everyone around you doesn't make you any friends, and it certainly doesn't make me feel comfortable with lesser founded cases based on meta-gaming.

Aggressive town works, but angry town doesn't, IMO. I believe this is probably what was meant by you playing like Cello Marl? (I believe it was Overswarm who mentioned this.)

On that further note, I'm getting mixed signals on the X1/Zen pair. X1 was pretty quick to hop on Zen's coat-tails, but now that Zen is trying to speak FOR him (X1's 418 and 419), it's created some stress.

I mentioned it earlier on, but I really don't like how X1 was so quick to ride on a case that Zen created. With that in mind, I feel like Zen is probably town, and his playstyle just grates on me. I feel like X1 might be scum trying to ride the case behind him.

Addressing my vote on Gordito: Honestly, it was mostly because I felt pretty intimidated. X1 comes out and says "If you don't vote Gordito, you better have a reason", and I don't really feel like dying, since that'd hurt town. I just put the vote on to avoid possible X1 rage, but apparently that's not quite that simple around here.

Anyway, that's all I've got for the moment. Again, sorry I've been gone so long, hopefully I can get my head back in the game completely.

So, the stances he gives are
Glyph-town
Gord-slight scum
Zen-slight scum
X1-slight scum

Isn't it interesting that all three people he marks as scum have come under various degrees of fire from other people? He also leaves the door open so he can focus on any of these three more, or even switch to a different lynch entirely. Almost regardless of what happens, he's in excellent position to jump right in with toDay's lynch and blend in. His entire playstyle just reeks of "Go with the flow" and avoiding confrontation, which screams new scum.

In accordance,

Unvote:

Vote: Raziek

@any questions that have been asked
I'll get to your questions once I'm finished rereading.

 

[Beat!]

Post 206 replies to gordito's 29, which was the list that started the whole x1 thing.

More importantly, you have yet to answer my original question. Why did you react differently to ranmaru replying to early posts then to rajam replying to early posts?

206?? The one where he answers a question? How's that even comparable to this?

And I have already answered your original question, but I'll try to be more clear: I didn't react to Ran replying to early posts. That wasn't the problem. I reacted to him asking questions that had already been answered. He didn't bring up the topics from a new angle or anything, he asked the exact same questions.

Nichs case is interesting.

 

[Overswarm]

: B

Cap

That's me having fun.

 

[Beat!]

FF online. I will be very dissapointed if he doesn't post.

 

[Raziek]

@Raz: That's just silly to think that Glyph's self-vote makes him town. Scum do this asa gambit. It worrys me that you would be so easily influenced to think someone is town based off something like that. If anything it shows that Glyph isn't playing about the town win-con and doesn't care about town winning. Also I do believe that he is overwhelmed, but I also think that he that doesn't make him likely town. I myself get really bored when I'm scum and having to make cases that you know aren't true is just really a bother. So his overwhelmedness really can't be attributed to town. It's more null.

I'm actually aware of that, but I think I mistakenly kept it in the back of my mind instead of acknowledging that it's a null tell. I hadn't really thought that hard about the win condition issue, so thank you for pointing that out. I just felt the claim seemed genuine.The action itself may be null, but I didn't get a bad feeling from his replacing out, like I did with Gordy's.

I believe you said something about my attacks on people don't wont make me any friends. This game isn't about making friends, it's about catching scum. Someone getting their feelings hurt because they are actually town shouldn't be a concern. It's a part of the game. All I care about is winning. You shouldn't bring so much emotion into the game. It's a game. The only emotion that is sometimes unavoidable is rage from others stupidity. >_> Sometimes.

Duly noted, but you outline yourself why you should probably calm down a bit. It IS a game. I'm playing it for fun. It may be your usual strategy, but I don't think getting at anyone's throat is going to help anything, and on a personal note, it makes me dislike and distrust your style of play. It may work for you, but I'm stating my opinion on it.

As for your Gord vote, just no. Acting against your own judgements just to be safe isn't something town should ever do. Self preservation is generally associated with anti-town. As OS said, play your own game. Otherwise you're useless and more likely to die than you would have in the first place.

Again, fair enough. This is only my second game, and like I said, the BBR was relaxed as hell. I'm not accustomed to DGames Day1 play. I'm trying to adjust to it, obviously, so you have my apologies in this regard.

Onward to Nick's case on me.

Raziek's posts caught my eye during the reread, so I decided to do a search on him and see what came up. The first thing I'd like to note is that his post count is extremely low. Only 10 posts total, and a couple of those are RVS.

I'll admit, beyond the sickness, I don't really have any excuse for my low activity level. All I can really say is that I'm trying to get a feel for how DGames does things.

He got a lot of flack for this given for how he basically went "I dunno if this is a good idea", but did it anyway. Now watch his reaction.

He backs off hard, saying he just went with the flow, and basically FoSing the people who started the Gord wagon.

It was a stupid choice, and like others have said, I should have thought for myself. Lesson learned.

@Adum
Regarding this quote, I need you to do me a favor. Go back into the scum QT for this game and check how the scummates overriding the framing thing happened. Did Raziek resist the suggestion, or just go with the flow? Also, could you give me a summary on how he played that game?

Obviously you'll still want to hear Adum's answer, but I have no issue with discussing my play. The gist of it was, I initially made the choice of my own regard, but I was receiving tutoring from our more experienced godfather. He died Night 2, so nights 3 and 4, I relied primarily on my gut. On the early days, I went with the flow. After getting the feel of things, I handled it myself.

As for a quick summary of my Scum play in DNM:

Day 1, I coasted as a moderately active town member, primarily involved in flavor discussions. (Flavor played a heavy part in that game) Day 2, I was active pro-town, and did a good amount of "scum-hunting". Day 3 and 4 I was essentially non-existant. This was primarily a result of it being Exams + Christmas time. Day 5 I had some suspicion on me, so I came back full force (Christmas was done), made a heavy gambit on a fakeclaim, and succeeding in getting a townie lynched during LyLo, which won us the game. The fakeclaim would never have worked here in DGames, but it is what it is.

*cough* 480+ posts*cough*

My issue is less about post count and more about concrete evidence. I do most of my play based on what I know for sure, combined with my (apparently) skillful reading ability. Fun fact: DNM had over 1000 posts on Day 1, and we ended up lynching an indy because of a fiasco involving a lack of a sample role PM. Resulted in a "claim town's color" scenario, and he handled it badly, and died for it.

Tell me, couldn't the exact same reasoning have applied to just about everyone else on the wagon? And yet you still go after them?

Glyph replaced out, X1 I still find scummy, and Zen I've moreso attributed to playstyle at this point. Nabe seemed to have legitimately been reaction fishing. Yes, that same reasoning could be applied, but regardless of the methodry or intent, the action was still the same.

This really does strike me as a newbie scum trying to deflect attention. In fact, in my first game as anti-town (I was basically the SK from D2 onwards), I was under fire for being inactive, and my defense was basically "Look guys, I know I'm inactive, but these guys did it too, lynch them instead!" (Ronike's test subject mafia if anyone wants to check.)

Think what you want, but I'm not scum. Why would anyone just sit there and NOT defend themselves? I believe this came up earlier in the Gordy scenario. He could have defended himself, much like I did, but he instead brushed it off. Why would he do that?

After this, he just disappeared for two days, later popping in to offer this:

Nice way to cover himself. Basically, he dodges any questions tossed at him unless the person has remembered it during the time he lurked (almost a full week), and if there are any inconsistencies in the rest of his post, he can just reply "Oh sorry, I must have skimmed that."

The conversation is so far ahead of that time that the questions are now nearly irrelevant. If you still have some pressing issue, ASK ME. It's not a john, I don't want to complete derail the topic by replying to possibly obsolete questions from almost a week ago.

So, the stances he gives are
Glyph-town
Gord-slight scum
Zen-slight scum
X1-slight scum

Isn't it interesting that all three people he marks as scum have come under various degrees of fire from other people? He also leaves the door open so he can focus on any of these three more, or even switch to a different lynch entirely. Almost regardless of what happens, he's in excellent position to jump right in with toDay's lynch and blend in. His entire playstyle just reeks of "Go with the flow" and avoiding confrontation, which screams new scum.

Seems like you're the one who's skimming a bit.

You have all of those right except for Zen. I don't think Zen is scum. I think he's town, with a playstyle I dislike.

Furthermore, almost everyone in the game has come under "various degrees of fire", so that statement is meaningless. Ever stop to think it's because they might be scummy? It does me no good to attack some random person I think is town or have a null read on, just because they haven't felt much pressure yet.

Say what you want, but I'm not scum. I know how to play scum reasonably well, I was pretty much unanimously voted scum MVP of DNM. Obviously that achievement is mitigated by a lesser overall skill level, but I'm not that inexperienced at playing scum.

My mistakes out here are because I've never played as TOWN.

 

[ranmaru]

Sorry, won't be able to post the catch up tonite. I have everything in quotes... It's just alot. (it's pg 6-11 40 pp)

Tommorow morning I'll finish it. : D

(I have school so I'll have to do it in the morning)

Thanks for being patient guys.

 

[Cdubs1987]

To respond to Ranmaru's #447

So you would rather let a scum lurk d1/d2 then? I do not think we should. I have never experienced a person lurking to a mafia win, but I wouldn't take a chance. There can be a chance that person could be scum lurking, but we would NEVER know.

So I hate the LAL policy, to which often people respond to with the likes of some "straw man" argument that basically says "So you'd rather let them lurk to the end and have an inactive townie". NO, no no no no. If some one stays inactive, they will be replaced, if some one is remaining just active enough to live, then they need to be looked into. I feel it's a more appropriate lnch for day3/4 depending on the size of the game, and should not be done quickly, they should be offered time to become more active.

If some one is just too busy to post, and we lynch them, then we get no connections, whether they are scum or town. Lynching a lurker who happens to be scum is obv good for town, but that doesn't make it the right play. If some one is inactive to the extent where you don't have any reads on them, then you basically have a flat chance of lynching scum. Essentially you are filling in an answer to a multiple choice test at random. I'd like to ****ing hope that if some members of any group are more than drooling morons, that you can get better than a flat, random chance of catching scum with your reads.

That being said, lurkers in end game are bad, and they should be dealt with. I have seen lynches on "lukers" in under 48 hours when people don't even know the game has started yet, I'd rather see an inactive person replaced than lynched, and if they stick around for a while, then fin, get rid of them before its close to end game.

As for discussion that is relevant to this game (sorry for ranting guys, but I REALLY hate LAL policy), Ranmaru, you say

Also, you say that Zen is town doing scummy things? Would you lynch him for doing scummy things even as town?

when in fact, I never said Zen was "scummy". What I said was

I'm not saying Zen is scum, but I do think your play style right now would qualify as anti-town. You are encouraging a quick lynch, which reduces the amount of information we can get.

"anti-town" and "scummy" are not synonymous. If glyph is town, voting for himself was anti-town, it is bad for the town win con. I said I felt that Zen's zerg rush strategy could be bad for town if Gordy was lynched quickly on D1, as little information would be offered and no connections would be made. The longer the day, the more opportunity for clues and connections to be read, so therefore a super quick Gord vote would have been against the best interest of the town. I never said that Zen did anything that I am reading to imply he is scum.

 

[Vult Redux]

The one where I said I thought he was town? Why aren't you even considering the possibilty that I DID think his scum hunting was genuine?

I think it's much more likely that you saw he was leading the Town and chose a very easy stance to take since at that time no one was questioning Zen.

I can understand finding Gordito scummy. And so I can empathize with agreeing with Zen's points against Gord because they are good points.

But to consider his scum hunting "genuine"?

Eeeeeh. No.

My read on you is independent of mine on Zen's.

/clarification

 

[Vult Redux]

Gordito(GLG)/X1/Zen shenanigans - I certainly dislike Gordito replacing out, especially since (IIRC), he didn't really provide a reason why. I'm not sure if I 100% believe he's scum though.

He did have a reason why, but that doesn't make him less scummy.

One thing that really doesn't sit well with me is Zen's playstyle. Hyper-aggressive town is a strange way to play. Yes, town needs to play aggressively, or scum can coast. But at the same time, lashing out at everyone around you doesn't make you any friends, and it certainly doesn't make me feel comfortable with lesser founded cases based on meta-gaming.

In conclusion...?

Addressing my vote on Gordito: Honestly, it was mostly because I felt pretty intimidated.

Shocking.

X1 comes out and says "If you don't vote Gordito, you better have a reason", and I don't really feel like dying, since that'd hurt town. I just put the vote on to avoid possible X1 rage, but apparently that's not quite that simple around here.

Trying to scapegoat X1 so that you don't have to take responsibility for your vote?

 

[Overswarm]

"anti-town" and "scummy" are not synonymous.

Just throwing this out there:

Yes they are.

Just saying. It's kind of the definition of "scummy". Anti-town behaviors is what scummy behaviors are. Scummy behaviors don't always come from scum. We could know someone's alignment and tehy could still act scummy.

So, just saying.

Don't nitpick.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

9/16|01.27.10 11:59AM EST

votee|voters

Overswarm|Cdubs1987/X1-12/

giraffelasergun|/Vult Redux/

X1-12|RedRyu /

Zεη|adumbrodeus/ Ranmaru/

Luxor|Nabe/

Raziek|giraffelasergun/Nicholas1024/

Ranmaru|Rajam/Zεη/BeatStick/Luxor/

No Vote|frozenflame751/Overswarm/Raziek/

If there are errors

yell at xiivi

guest vote count

 

[Vult Redux]

Just throwing this out there:

Yes they are.

Just saying. It's kind of the definition of "scummy". Anti-town behaviors is what scummy behaviors are. Scummy behaviors don't always come from scum. We could know someone's alignment and tehy could still act scummy.

So, just saying.

Don't nitpick.

Scummy indicates a behavior something that scum is more likely to do (than Town).

Antitown indicates a behavior that works against the Town's favor.

Usually both describe the same behaviors but there are some instances where only one may apply (e.g. lurking isn't in the Town's best interest but it's not necessarily done more often by Scum than by Town (debatable, but the point remains)).

I haven't read any of OS vs. X1, but this stood out to me and I think it's kind of important for all players to know.

 

[Xivii]

Lynch Ran.

 

[Luxor]

L-5

Also Jungle's votecount is wrong in at least one place, Nabe's vote is on Zen > me now IIRC.

The RanWagon could use more wagoners!

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Finally finished. Apologies for all the RL johns and delays. Commence 9 pages of thoughts post:

Glyph: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12030639&postcount=380

No stances and RL johns? Yeah don't need you to stick around.

BeatStick: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12031370&postcount=387

Eh, this answer to my question is meh. Kinda lame but you're new so I guess I buy it.

BeatStick: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12032383&postcount=393

Out of the four who? Not sure who you're referring to when you say "mentioned".

Rajam: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12035483&postcount=407

Clear stances and decent analysis. Do like. Gonna have to go through this with a finer comb later. Lots of different flips can make this post even more useful with post-flip analysis.

Glyph: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12035520&postcount=408
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12035532&postcount=409

-_- Throwing in the towel after just that? ****in' mad lame dude. Oh and thanks for the advice, none of knew what to do when people flip. Thank you for all of your effort and guidance. I'm sure we'll be able to learn soooooo much from your flip and wagonners when you've quite literally done nothing and have no stances for us to cross reference. But yeah, sure, drop the culpability on us. Pretty legit town play right there.

Glyph: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12037154&postcount=422

"Hey guys, analyze the people who are on my wagon!"

> implying that we'll be able to learn a lot from his wagon in the first place
> self votes
>actively undermines how much we can even learn from his wagon by taking a spot on it on his own
> contradicts the only request he's made all game by his own terrible play
> mfw I have no face because facepalm crushed it

Raziek: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12040401&postcount=441

Blah wanna pressure you moar but you have more legit RL johns than me. D=

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** MY TABS GOT OUT OF CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER >_<

Sorry, timeskipping back to like the 200s now.

Nabe: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12008499&postcount=203

Dude you questioning is complete assbackward. How in the world did you reach the conclusion that Gord's reaction was the way allegedly townGord would respond? If you're going to grill Zen on his interpretation you kind have to substantiate what I think you're building up to be some kind of meta case.

Zen: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12008648&postcount=205

Adum read pretty much syncs up with mine so far. Definitely don't think Adum's play has much merit thus far and he's playing incredibly safe whether its intentional or just because of inactivity or whatever. Point is he isn't offering anything constructive. Just a few opinions here and there and a little meta-ish fluff. Just kinda bleh overall. The whole "reaction fishing" this still gives me really bad vibes. I'm sitting here thinking like "wait wtf what do you hope to accomplish by ANNOUCING that you're fishing for reads?" Not what I'd expect from town Adum at all. Seems just really half-*****.

Raziek: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12008952&postcount=209

This response kinda blows but it seems really genuine so I'm taking it as null. Really strange way to try to juggle a "break the game possibility" without trying to distract the town. It never occurred to you to just straight up ask about the mod, or in general what people thought the likelihood that the flavour of the game could be game-breaking was? Just seems off to me but meh.

GLG: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12009147&postcount=210

Noticed your case on Raziek syncs up with mine (you didn't parrot though, you posted this before I wrote my post, and I posted my post before I ever even read yours lol). Glad someone else took note of this.

Adum: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12010104&postcount=220

This post is just really weird. Kind of defensive and lashy. Too much focus on trying to discredit attackers when there isn't even an active wagon on him really. Instead of trying to just discredit criticism against him, I'd expect Adum to simply to taking more stances and quelling the criticism through just better pro-town play, not by mud slinging people who are pressuring him. Kind of a knee-jerky response to recent events at this point, and the "get at me" attitude is not very pro-town at all. =/

Red Ryu: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12012896&postcount=239

Woah @ almost like direct parroting of Adum and like no substantiation. Mad scummy.

Luxor: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12013243&postcount=241

Dude wat. How is his post "pretty accurate"? And wtf why are you fishing for town lists?

Nich: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12013724&postcount=250

Dude you have like the worst luck, everytime we are in a game together I just get swamped by stupid bull**** and end up mad inactive. You have basically full tunnel rights on me for this whole game.

Rajam: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12015662&postcount=266

Interesting meta accusation. Have you looked into this more and done some comparison? Is there a large disparity between his early game play in this game and DN mafia? Or are you just throwing this out there for ****s and giggles?

OS: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12017472&postcount=274

o_O Did not expect a reaction like this from OS. No idea what to think about it, taking it as null, but that was a pretty stern "dude lay off" as a reaction to just some small meta pressure.

GLG: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12020640&postcount=291

VT claim? GLG confirmed for vig/other NK fodder. Please oblige.

X1: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12021003&postcount=295

Holy **** this read list is ****ing wack.

OS: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12021031&postcount=297

Legit callout on X1 for 295.

Vult: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12023299&postcount=316

Whoa what? Parroting Red Ryu? Really dude? I mean I've seen parroting of people with cases with substantiation but c'mon..... non-substantiated cases getting parroted? Wth?

How is Zen making "wild claims"? And lol wtf @ random BeatStick wagon call. can you explain that? I can't follow your thought process here at all.

Luxor: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12025203&postcount=329

Hmmmm, this post is better than previous contributions but kind of bland. Comments on lots of people but not really any hard stances. Follow up posts will need to be consistent.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12025383&postcount=334

Oh and there's some scum hunting + stances. Cool. And consistent. Also do like. Luxor movin' up in the world.

Red Ryu: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12026311&postcount=346

Lots of defense and no positive matter. Still no stances to work with, a few half ***** rebuttals, and then more delay. Not even a vote to give us an idea of who he actually thinks is scummy as opposed to who he is just trying to quell and thinks is a town attacker. As a matter of fact has he even changed his vote from RVS? Nah lol it's still on me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

****..... another very brief backward timeskip. Only two posts this time. >_<

Glyph: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12005595&postcount=159

OH SWEET! Really?! Scumhunting! Can't wait to rea.....

=/

New player personality analysis? Really? That's your scumhunting? Son I am disappoint.

Zen: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12007946&postcount=196

This is some really interesting analysis. The post has potency depending on future flips.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KK back to the normal timeline:

Adum: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12040661&postcount=444

Kk cool can't wait.

Raziek: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12040786&postcount=445

Town glyph? Still pushing an X1/Zen pair? Admitting to voting Gordito to avoid pressure from another player? Criticizing aggro town?

This is not a good late D1 post, sir. No vote either wtf is this ****.

Ranmaru: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12041086&postcount=447

Dear lord Glyph replacement already leagues better than Glyph. Stances are kind of all over the place but hell, I'll take weird stance combos over no stances.

Zen: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12043255&postcount=453

Dude are we seriously gonna have to do the scum v. dumb thing with Ranmaru AGAIN?! We just went through it in SC mafia. Do yourself a favour and cross check yourself by re-reading Ran in Soul Cal before you start throwing out conclusions like "scum with poor language understanding". Seriously throw me a bone here, that's at least one recent dumb/scum read i had right recently so we should probs use it to our advantage.

OS: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12044178&postcount=459

Wait.... what? Am I misremembering or weren't you always an advocate of active voting in order to help leave a self made paper trail and make your stances clear and strong? This is not a response I expected from you at all. =/

BeatStick: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12045509&postcount=469

Why? Because of what Glyph has done or what Ran has done? Or both? Explain.

Raziek: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12046844&postcount=489

Lots of "lol guys I've never been town before", "i know how to play as scum cuz I won as scum", "lol here's how I played as scum in my last game" epic WIFOMing and still no stances except on like Zen and still no voting. Still has done nothing to change my opinion on him.

Zen: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12050231&postcount=497

Same question I asked BeatStick. Because of Glyph or because of Ran? Or both?

Current D1 lynchpool: Raziek, Red Ryu, Adum

Raziek I feel is probably the most likely to actually produce content given more time so I'm kinda comfortable with him living to D2 but gonna need to see results fast. Red Ryu and Adum can totally go for their D1 play thus far though.

GLG I guess I could settle for because his flip would be mad informative and I still don't have a solid read but I still think he's better vig fodder.

Ranmaru is kinda like diet GLG except with Glyph giving me "way to stupid and bad at mafia to possibly be scum" vibes.

Vote: Red Ryu Gogo Red Ryu or Adum wagon.

 

[Overswarm]

Wait.... what? Am I misremembering or weren't you always an advocate of active voting in order to help leave a self made paper trail and make your stances clear and strong? This is not a response I expected from you at all. =/

I was. No longer am.

After playing a few times as town and seeing people look back on votes and completely misinterpret them, I found it isn't so much a paper trail as it is a paper explosion. I rarely see someone look back at a vote trail and say "Oh, I get it" and get something productive out of it. I am now of the mind that using your vote more sparingly, at least in the early stages, is a better strategy for town.

To clarify:

If I vote every post, none of my votes really matter but still have an effect on the game. I can start a wagon, get off teh wagon, get back on, and whoever is half-reading the game won't associate me with starting the wagon. People just don't pay enough attention unless there is a small number of players.

Alternatively, if I vote only occasionally you'll be able to legitimately see my votes, question my votes, and look back at them upon my flip with clarity. It won't be "did he think player X was scum, or was it just pressure?!" if you a consistent voting pattern.

 

[Overswarm]

Also, what do you think of Zen, Flame? You seem to have implied he is town and that you aren't particularly offended by his reads without explicitly saying so.

 

[Rajam]

Rajam's post requires some thought.

Still want to hear from FF, Raziek, and Adumbrodeus. I don't want anyone slipping under the radar.

I actually don't like the majority of the case rajam posted on glyph but glyph's defense actually makes me want to vote for him but I'm going to wait for rajam to reply to some other stuff I think he needs to respond to first.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Glyph (OS and glg; I already answered your questions btw)

I still think he is the play toDay

The fact that he self-voted (with a lot of AtE involved) and was replaced so quickly is a mix between null/scummy perception to me. I'm wondering why Raziek was so willing to believe he is town just for that, and ignored everything I said about Glyph earlier

Waiting on what Ranmaru has to say about my case as well

I'm also kinda surprised Cdubs and Frozenflame haven't said anything about each other, since you said you were able to read the other like an open book IRL. Have you detected anything particular about the other?

@ff: Raziek is playing different compared to DN (he and I were mafia there), although is just more AtE involved, mostly because I think he is feeling overwhelmed by how fast the game started and also due to the higher levels of pressure here in DGames. I don't think being overwhelmed and his different play style (as I'm perceiving it) necesarily means he is town though

 

[Rajam]

Vult you totally ignored my case on Glyph in which I practically accused you of being his scum partner. How is it that hasn't been a commentary or a response from you at all?

FoS: Vult Redux

By this post I also perceive you don't agree with how Glyph added himself onto Gord's wagon earlier:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12037681&postcount=425

So, this is a direct question: Where would you put Glyph, as town or scum? The more detailed your response, the better

 

[Xivii]

Lynch Ran.

 

[Beat!]

BeatStick: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12031370&postcount=387

Eh, this answer to my question is meh. Kinda lame but you're new so I guess I buy it.

What sort of answer were you expecting (just asking)?

BeatStick: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12032383&postcount=393

Out of the four who? Not sure who you're referring to when you say "mentioned".

Sorry, was a bit unclear. You said you were going to be scrutinizing Ryu, Glyph (Ran), Luxor and Raziek. Out of those four, who would you like to see lynched? Although by now I kinda have the answer to that question. Kinda wonder what makes you pick adum over Ran, Luxor, Raziek though, since they were the ones who you said needed further investigation.



BeatStick: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12045509&postcount=469

Why? Because of what Glyph has done or what Ran has done? Or both? Explain.

Because Glyph answered the case against him by posting, like, one short post before self voting and requesting replacement. Rans catch-up post is pretty null imo and didn't make me reconsider, which means my vote stays on him. I do want to see his post after reading the entire thread though.

Answers are bolded.

I support a Ran lynch unless someone has a better idea.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Answers are bolded.

I support a Ran lynch unless someone has a better idea.

Raziek lynch would be a better idea.

 

[Beat!]

Ok, I'll re-read and consider that too. Wanna see Rans big post before deciding as well.

 

[ranmaru]

Mhmm. I'm half-way through the catch up. I have been here since 11 am. It's 3 pm now. I'll have class at 5:30 pm, so expect the post around then or around 9:30 pm at the latest.

Unless you guys would like the first half of it now, say it ain't so and I'll post it.

 

[Luxor]

it ain't so and I'll post it.

 

[X1-12]

Ran in case you didn't realise, luxor was making a joke, post it when its finished.

 

[Luxor]

Tbh I wanted something right away to start chewing over, but I could wait since I should be writing a spanish essay anyway.

 

[ranmaru]

Haha kk. Will do when finished.

 

[Beat!]

Yes, please finish it before posting.

 

[Beat!]

Ninjaaa

10ninjaaas

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ninja'd by a large post by Adum. How fitting.

Adum, why does x1's gambit make you feel better about him?

Frankly, because the lynch gboy wagon had no content whatsoever and he abandoned it after only a very small amount of pressure.


Zen on the other hand attempted to develop an alternative reason to lynch which had just as little content.

Or, I'm ****ing right?

You know what happened?

Gordito does something that two separate players call him out on
Gordito blows off their questions
Gordito receives several votes
Gordito blows off more questions
Gordito asks for replacements

Blowing off everyone's questions?

What about his 94?

He seemed perfectly willing to answer direct questions, which questions did he blow off?

Just throwing this out there:

Yes they are.

Just saying. It's kind of the definition of "scummy". Anti-town behaviors is what scummy behaviors are. Scummy behaviors don't always come from scum. We could know someone's alignment and tehy could still act scummy.

So, just saying.

Don't nitpick.

This is wrong, it's advantageous for scum to GET AWAY WITH anti-town behaviors, but they're not actually particularly common to either town or scum. In fact, there's a number of effective pro-town strategies that revolve around playing anti-town. For example, lurking is anti-town but is quite common across the board.


Scummy behaviors are behaviors which tell you that somebody's scum, usually this references to how they behave in a faction or that it reveals being primarily concerned with survival as opposed catching scum or knowing alignments (we could add lying, but fracking everybody here lies as town so congrats on giving us less tools to scumhunt with folks).




After I finished rereading, Nabe has played exceptionally safe this game, not really starting any wagons

Is this for real? Or an inside joke? If this is for real, playing with you is going to be seriously painful.


When someone is under pressure or even when they aren't under pressure but especially when they are, you want to see how they naturally respond to things. We needed to see how Natural-Gord would respond to all the pressure on his own to get a better idea of his alignment/motives/intentions. But when you just point out "hey Gord respond to this, I want to see how you react" defeats the whole purpose because he is then no longer doing things naturally. He is simply posting what you want him to post and not what HE wants to post. You can't tell what people's motives are if they are just doing what you say and not what they want to do. Just like what Gord said earlier, what people don't say is just as important as what they do say. How and why people say something is just as important.

Questions are by their nature reaction-fishing, I was looking for answers.

Scenario 1
Susie: I think Jimmy is scum because he has a J in his name.
Jimmy: No! I'm not scum! I just have a J in my name! Why would you call me scum for that?

Scenario 2
Susie: I think Jimmy is scum because he has a J in his name.
Bobby: I wont vote you because I want to see how you react to Susie so please react to Susie.
Jimmy: Well Bobby, it's clear Susie is just trying to get things going. If not I may have to defend myself, but they could be serious O_O

In 1, Jimmy responds naturally to Susie and says what he wants to say. His motives and intentions can be determined by that. In 2, Jimmy simply responds to Bobby's unpressured statements showing no motives, no intentions. He simply reflects on bobby's statement rather than naturally responding to Susies pressure.

The problem with your scenario was that it was during RVS, so not knowing if you guys were serious was a legitimate response.

And you realize I was just asking the questions you guys should've from the beginning, right?

Explain. Do you think it's omgus? Or that I was just jumping at you since rajam came in? If the former, omgus isn't a scum tell. It's natural for a townie to think someone is scummy for voting them because they are the only one they know that is 100% town so to think someone who is voting someone you know is 100% town is suspicious is normal. If the latter, clearly that's not the case, otherwise I wouldn't be accusing Rajam of being Gords scumbuddy.

Either way neither of those are why I voted you. I simply don't like your play.

Good case to be BS imo. Also I made a case of my own.

OMGUS is only not a scum-tell for noobs because it suggests being primarily concerned with survival as opposed to catching scum. Granted if the case was scummy in and of itself or if Rajam brought up an actual good case, then I could see it, but his case amounted to:

"Saying a townread = buddying = SCUM!", why do you think this is a legitimate case?


And what case of your own, please explain, because all I've seen so far is you jumping onto Rajam's case..,

Wouldn't you say that's more than most have done? Of all the players so far, who would you say has contributed more than that?

So, a vacuous case on an easy mislynch = nothing unless you were doing it for reactions, and since you haven't done wagon analysis and tried to get him seriously lynched, your case is a null contribution.

What makes you say my case was fake?

Because you attempted to get him lynched over one nulltell then another.

I don't consider Gord an easy mislynch. That's all you.

Really? We all know Gord sucks, the fact that such a large wagon developed over your BS reason is evidence of this. He's bad at the game and one of the greatest weaknesses in mafia players is not being able to distinguish bad play from scummy play.


This time actually answer my questions.

I thought his breadcrumb was hilarious, and it clearly wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I hardly feel like you can use that against him.

It's Rajam, I played then watched CT mafia, all I need to say I think.

@Adum: In #63 you say you wanna reaction fish more before voting gord, why not just vote gord for increased pressure and ergo better reads? Also in #96 you assumed my push on gordito was a 'case' why?

Because I wanted you to defend you stance if you believed there was any merit to it.


I had no interest in voting gord because what I wanted from him was a response, and I wanted you guys to defend your wagon on him.


I include answering questions as "reactions" as I explained before.

Why do you think he waited until you posted, Adum?

He posted the vote so soon after I did, after he'd already been discussing this for a while now, with no additional reasoning added. It strongly suggests he was waiting for support before putting himself out there. This suggests survival bias, therefore scum.

@Adum
Regarding this quote, I need you to do me a favor. Go back into the scum QT for this game and check how the scummates overriding the framing thing happened. Did Raziek resist the suggestion, or just go with the flow? Also, could you give me a summary on how he played that game?

I'll get back to you on this, won't have a chance to do this and complete my reread.

Adum read pretty much syncs up with mine so far. Definitely don't think Adum's play has much merit thus far and he's playing incredibly safe whether its intentional or just because of inactivity or whatever. Point is he isn't offering anything constructive. Just a few opinions here and there and a little meta-ish fluff. Just kinda bleh overall. The whole "reaction fishing" this still gives me really bad vibes. I'm sitting here thinking like "wait wtf what do you hope to accomplish by ANNOUCING that you're fishing for reads?" Not what I'd expect from town Adum at all. Seems just really half-*****.

Only thing I really wanna point out here (cause I've answered this 500 times already...) is that the reactions I was fishing for was the answers to my questions. I wanted people to give me clear rundowns of their opinion before I moved on this so I could use this to figure out who was scum out of the gord wagon.

If you wanna see what I got from that:

After gord's initial post I suspected it was a gambity bus or maybe mafia that had caught an indy but his response was still in RVS period, I needed a confirmed serious post addressing the issue directly for that. I was satisfied with his response and don't think his slot is scum.

I wanted to see whether Zen had some other reason beyond the vacuous ones he had given. He didn't. Zen-scum read.

X1 jumped ship with really no predication, while it seems like safe play it draws a lot of attention to him, something which I don't think he'd do as scum when lynching gord is probably gonna be a lot easier and raise less eyebrows. Still not impossible.






Thoughts on Nabe though, he's been playing a ridiculously safe game, I don't see him even tossing votes unless there's a pre-existing wagon.

Zen's interaction with OS suggests even more that he's extremely inclined to target anyone who thinks he's scum.




Overall reads:

Zen probably scum
Luxar probably scum
Nabe is probably scum.
X1 leans town.
Nich is probably town.
OS is leaning slightly town (wanna reread him before I give a firm opinion).
Beatstick leans town.
Rajam leans dumbtown.
giraffelasergun is probably town, possibly indy.
Everyone else is null atm.

That said, nabe-scum makes x1 leaning scum.
Luxar-scum and Zen-scum together are unlikely.

 

[ranmaru]

Done. Will be posting two posts with long posts... Get ready.

 

[ranmaru]

Not to mention his reads and targets are just aweful. Why would he want to lynch the person who has brought out the majority of the conversation in the day and is so obviously town. I don't even think it's possible for scum to play the way I'm playing and Adum is rudiculous to think I'm scum. For scum to push a mislynch that hard is like autotarget the next day. He even said that generally wagons leaders are town, but says this is different because gboy was an easy target. How is gboy an easy target? People are acting like gboy is an idiot. He knows how to play.

Gboy is an easy target, because virtually anyone could have lead the wagon. How can be sure of your town-obviousness?

Nabe my god you're so annoying.

Nabe: Gord is town.
Zen: Why?
Nabe: Because he responded like town. How do you think he would respond as town?
Zen: How is it that he responded like town?
Nabe: I asked you fisrt.

No.

Nabe did ask you first there. Your question is legit, but you should have answered his question first. I understand that your question refers to him stating that he responded like town.

Out of all the things you could have gone after adum for... this really just isn't one of them. As a matter of fact, I agreed with his conclusion at the time, and saw no real problem with him posting it.


I facepalmed at this "breadcrumb". Someone please tell me I wasn't the only one.

@Zen
The problem with your argument is that adum is not bad as scum. I saw him firsthand in LOTR mafia, and he blended in brilliantly. No, I think his bad play IS intentional, which means he's probably trying to avoid the NK. If anything, I'm guessing he's indy.

Anyway, what do you think of a Gord/X1/Rajam scumteam?

Nicholas defending Adum because he may or may not be good as scum. Then confirms it.

X1 later claimed he was using a gambit, and lying about the standard tell anyway. So... what's wrong?


The way he was exclusively focusing on your playerslot despite X1's actions looked like tunneling. I think it's justified, given his case against you, but it's still tunneling.


You know, he later claimed it to be a gambit...

Town's goal is to lynch scum. Defending town to get a scum lynch is therefore pro-town. I admit that scum can defend town for townie points, but that's not the case here.

X1 using an excuse, and then lying. Lying isn’t good for town.

He does that.

So you believed him without questioning it?

EBWOP: The selective bolding was supposed to be as follows:
Spelling "I eat dirt" for interested parties.

I like “I eat birt” better.

So, at this point you disliked Zen for going after an easy target? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't seem like a valid reason to push a lynch. Easy or hard target, if he's scummy, he's scummy. (I admit that worse players are more likely to give off scumtells regardless of alignment, but what do you suggest? Just ignoring all the scumtells bad players give?)

Anyway, you seem to be confusing Zen and X1. X1 was after him for the large list (which he claims as a gambit now), Zen was after him for completely different reasons. (Some meta, and then Gord's reaction to the pressure.)

So you would disregard Zen’s actions because Gboy is an easy target? It was rvs. Doesn’t matter how serious Zen felt, Gboy didn’t feel that way. (Gboy probably wouldn’t expect such pressure that early, and he shouldn’t)

When someone is under pressure or even when they aren't under pressure but especially when they are, you want to see how they naturally respond to things. We needed to see how Natural-Gord would respond to all the pressure on his own to get a better idea of his alignment/motives/intentions. But when you just point out "hey Gord respond to this, I want to see how you react" defeats the whole purpose because he is then no longer doing things naturally. He is simply posting what you want him to post and not what HE wants to post. You can't tell what people's motives are if they are just doing what you say and not what they want to do. Just like what Gord said earlier, what people don't say is just as important as what they do say. How and why people say something is just as important.

Scenario 1
Susie: I think Jimmy is scum because he has a J in his name.
Jimmy: No! I'm not scum! I just have a J in my name! Why would you call me scum for that?

Scenario 2
Susie: I think Jimmy is scum because he has a J in his name.
Bobby: I wont vote you because I want to see how you react to Susie so please react to Susie.
Jimmy: Well Bobby, it's clear Susie is just trying to get things going. If not I may have to defend myself, but they could be serious O_O

In 1, Jimmy responds naturally to Susie and says what he wants to say. His motives and intentions can be determined by that. In 2, Jimmy simply responds to Bobby's unpressured statements showing no motives, no intentions. He simply reflects on bobby's statement rather than naturally responding to Susies pressure.

Explain. Do you think it's omgus? Or that I was just jumping at you since rajam came in? If the former, omgus isn't a scum tell. It's natural for a townie to think someone is scummy for voting them because they are the only one they know that is 100% town so to think someone who is voting someone you know is 100% town is suspicious is normal. If the latter, clearly that's not the case, otherwise I wouldn't be accusing Rajam of being Gords scumbuddy.

Scenario one, Jimmy reacts emotionally.

In the second scenario, Jimmy reacts rationally.

Do you want Gboy to AtE?

It's pretty obvious why I said you could die. You came in here and just made one little random post without commenting on much else. You still haven't commented on much and you're using the fact the others aren't online at the same time you are as an excuse when there is plenty to go off of.

I agree, I wouldn’t mind Luxor going toDay. I’ll look into his answer to the beatstick vote when I get to it. Second part, did anyone else notice this?

Why is Luxor town?

Disagrees with stance.

Ryu: You say to Zen that "his behaviour at Gordy" is making you question him. Elaborate; currently sounding unfounded and fluffy. Have you played any other games of Mafia before?

Yes, I asked you that question after answering your question, thus it was warranted.

Do you think Ryu was just saying that to sound like he was having a thought about that?

Also, did Zen answer your your question? If so, good. If not, why do you think he didn’t?

Red Ryu's last comment seems fairly accurate. Zen's quick play on Gboy was harmless enough in hindsight, but the change in attitude from #233 to #234 has me stumped... he lists a number of (valid) reasons I could be scum and then lists me as straight town?

Well, why do you think he did that?

I think Luxor is fine for now. I can't really say for sure he is town, but he's in my town pile for now based on meta. Basically I just want to think he's town. However I don't think he's town enough or useful enough to defend him and I don't disagree with the points that have been made on him. The main thing I dislike is the "noob card" and his voting you which I still don't quite understand. I could easily switch my view on him, but right now he's a pretty weak play to me. And I think he will contribute more than he has been.




This isn't true. I did not pretend. I truly believed gord was obv scum. I still think he is scum, but to a lesser extent after reviewing. I can't help that there was little info to convince others, but I'm not just going to wait the whole day for him scum to slip up on there own. If we don't act ourselves and force them out, it's not likely to happen.

Why do you want to believe Luxor is town? (Seems a bit nooby, but he outright called his vote on beatstick the noobcard, that should still be considered)

Also, why do you believe Gord is scum to a lesser extent from the time of this post?

You've made one post that said you were convinced gord was scum, but in that same post you said you would also have to look at x1 before you'd lynch me.

Why do you think he wanted to look at X1 beofre Gord/you?

I don't have an established meta on Gord. I don't know him (or anyone else here). I had seen him in a few games, and he's an established player on DGames from what I've gathered. Therefore I assumed he had a plan with the way he posted, because like I said, some posts were really weird, and I couldn't imagine a good player giving himself away so easily.

And there's a difference between inactivity and "lurking". You, for example, claimed you were busy IRL. I saw no reason to pressure that (at least not at once). Luxor, on the other hand, was online pretty often, but his posts were short and lacking content, and Adum disagreeing with him was enough to make him unvote. He didn't really have an excuse for being so unhelpful.

Honestly I would think Gord would be good too, because he seemed to be around long. I guess it’s just his personality that was great. It was the first time I saw Gord playing. There was another game I saw him in, but I wasn’t in it.

I agree. I didn’t like that. But he waited until 2 minutes after. If Adum ever came up scum I’d definitely suspect Luxor because of that.

FoS: Raziek

DN's D1 was relaxed for you since you weren't under heavy pressure, and it was town's fault because you were scum. Pressure&activity are the key in D1. In DN's D1 there were like 50 pages of discussion with 40 ppp and town lynched scum that day, so we CAN lynch scum D1 with good activity, but town lost that game anyways due to low activity D2 and D3 + dumb modkills. If you want this game to flow like DN we'll get the same results from there with mafia winning with wide margin, so that's why I'm FoS'ing you; you know this game CAN'T go like DN

Ah. I see, I understand now. I’m glad you posted that. I thought because of what Raz said, that the BBR games were just super casual lol.

And I agree, don’t want any of that to happen. That’s worse than Newb 10. (Town made a few mistakes)

Rajam is making really good points. Specifically on Raz just now.

I find it funny that people were getting on my Gord case "meta" (which is from 4 games of experience plus knowing his pesona from the forum), yet defending him based on made up meta from no where. First of all, Gord is 16 not 14. Yes he is comedic, but he's not a noob nor some clueless little boy. He can mafia. He can properly interpret and communicate his thoughts.

Can you pull up proof of this? (quotes from finished games that he did well in?)

Why do you think he would play so carelessly, and so dumb? Only thing I could think of is because it was RVS. But that’s my guess.

The pic was scummy because he knew I was serious and he even admitted that. Why would he search for a pic like that. There was no comedic value to the picture itself. Gord would only post a pic if it was a humorous. That wasn't. He simply posted "you got me" in the form of a picture. The same thing easily could have been said simply with words. I wonder if people would feel differently if there was no stick figure. The fact that it was in pic form doesn't change the fact that it's suspicious.

Ok, underline is your opponion. Second is “established fact” from meta (although I wouldn’t know, I would like some examples if you could be so kind).

So because you don’t think that picture was funny, you think that Gord wouldn’t think it was funny? (Now, did he ever say that he didn’t think the picture was funny either?)

Also, it seems he said that he was merely telling you to shut up, and to lay off him. (Maybe because he was playing around in RVS, how are you sure he likes to be playful in RVS before he get’s serious?)

Also, so you say he knew you were serious. Why would this matter in RVS still? What if he acted silly with you even though he knew you were serious?

@GLG, Gord claimed Vanilla. Can you confirm this?

@Nabe why are you still alive? QUOTE]

Why did you ask GLG that? What were you hoping to get from that question?

Also, why should Nabe be dead from the time of this post?

You really think I care why they view and leave? All I care about is their response, duh. Scum are scum so they will be weary of everything they do and respond in excuse form. Town just don't think anything of it. At least that's the basic read.
QUOTE]


People have lives. Plus, there would be a chance that person could have missed your question, so your question would become useless.

I waited all night for Raziek to make posts and there's. No. Posts.
Him, FF, Adum, and Red Ryu should all REALLY start saying... anything. FF and Raz gave excuses, but I'm waiting to hear from RR and Adum.

Oh why did you wait? Was it because he was viewing the thread? Did he say that he had to catch up before? If not, then I would understand why you waited then.

That wasn't intentionally being scummy at all. It was intentionally being town who thought someone viewing the thread and not posting was scummy.

How long was he not posting while viewing?

You're a little scummy, OS.

You said "either way" which implies that you believe something I said. Yet you claimed to not buy what I was saying in the same sentence. What do you mean not buying it either way?

Why did you misquote OS? (Apperently he said “Saying “I don’t buy it either way”, so if he lied about that, please tell me, I’m in Microsoft word now)

But if he did exactly say “I don’t buy it either way” why did you imply from just “either way”?

... Saying "I don't buy it either way" implies I disagree with both. Not that I agree with one and disagree with another.


@town

Stop doing half-***** simple-minded gambits that make you think you're clever. I have no idea of X1 or Zen's alignment, but I know they're now both on my radar because they've both done something scummy, got called out on it, then responded "oh, I did that on purpose" and tried to explain how they'd get tons of information from it. That's a scum move. Scum make scummy statements and actions, get called out on it, then have an excuse. Town never has to be put in that decision unless they make a mistake and there are people doing is on PURPOSE.... or they are scum.

Quit with the gambits.

First, did you exactly say “I don’t buy it either way”?

Also, I don’t do gambits, especially in forum mafia. I think it would just make the game easier and cheap. (Like X1’s N0 gambit in Yt, although it was a bit risky too so he had to be careful, and he says he had a read on Swiss before it, so I guess it was ok)

I might do gambits in Aimafia, just because it’s less about winning and more about having fun (and expirementing in my case)

Also, I don’t do gambits because of big mistakes… Like Acrostic from Newb 10. He was the tracker, and he lied about his guilty on Vandie because he was soooo sure he was scum.

Then, Glyph voted him in Mylo, and Me and Kuz alpha striked. (Glyph was sure of Acrostic was scum from lying [Vandie came up town], but it made sense since Acrostic did lie)

Are there any gambits you guys think are legit if were careful with it? (If you were accurate with your reads too?)

I don’t know of any. (Not that I would try either)

I purely (obviously) wanted just to pile votes onto gboy for pressure and to see who would/would not comply etc

@Nich again: Gboy was the center of it, but trust me I don't need gambits to read him, I was mainly focused on how everyone interacted with him and I'm pretty confident that gboy knew that, in a game he just modded I fake claimed N0 cop for example (youtube memes
@Zen: Firstly, I know how to read newbies. Secondly, I know how to read gboy. You don't know how to do either of these things.

@Rajam: Do you have a restriction where you have to be an idiot? if not then do something productive ffs. Voting Overswarm or Luxor would be a good start

OS is scum

Ok, so if that was truly the purpose, who did you see that followed that wagon? What did you notice? What did you think of the people who agreed to lynch Gord? Do you think any of them are town or scum? Why?

About the gambit you did in YT, how effective do you think it was? Do you think there could have been any scenarios where it could have gone wrong? In a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being high, 10 being low, pick the number which you would feel would be the chance of your gambit failing. Then, explain why you feel this way.

Why doesn’t he know how to read Gboy? How wrong is he?

Why is OS scum?

Anyway, the main issue here is the following question: Is defending townies scummy? I hope it's clear that the answer is a resounding NO. Since GLG can't see how defending town helps to lynch scum, I'll use a quick illustration.

Suppose that Idiot townie X is on the choppping block, but you have good reason to think he's town. (Say... personal meta, or cop report. Doesn't really matter.) So, by presenting your reasons as to why townie X is scum, you get him off the chopping block, and someone else onto it... who might very well be scum. Therefore, it's a good move.

@X1
Why is Gord town? Also, I'm skeptical it was a gambit and will stay that way, until you explain somewhat more about your reads and how the gambit helped them.

Suppose Idiot townie X is on the chopping block, and a player who also seems scummy says that that person is actually town, and everyone believes him. Idiot Townie is Saved! Do you believe this is scummy? Is this defense of a player? Do you think this is true townie intent? Why or why not?

If you are skeptical of his gambit, why not ask him questions about it instead of waiting for him to explain his reads further.

Firstly thats a poor way to measure newbieness, games played would be better, secondly his first game was my second game (taco) so he hasn't been around longer than me. He also still sucks, ergo newbie.

@OS: I don't even know what appeal to authority is, I was just pointing out how farfetched your idea is that I would trip up in my first post and then go back and point out my own scumminess

I agree, Zen didn’t state that specifically enough.

I think there is more about Appeal to Authority and to Reason and to Probability (etc) on Mafiascum.net

Since I'm being asked for quotes I'll get a full post when I get home.

Why wouldn’t you give quotes if you weren’t asked?

Defending is scummy even if it is defending a townie, I guess you and I just have a difference of opinion here.

I agree.

So, basically:

-A LOT of players need to post more.
-Luxor has stated the above too, but he hasn't posted anything worth reading himself. Don't quite get it.
-I want Nicholas to answer my questions.
-Adum has made many long posts, but a lot of it is just talk about the game in general.
-I'm starting to agree with Zen regarding Ryu, but since he's promised us a post, I'll give him benefit of the doubt for now.
-I want stances from Overswarm.

I've probably forgotten something, but I'm tired. I'll post again if that's the case.

The Luxor wagon doesn't have enough fuel to continue at the moment.
unvote

Ok.
If he has, why did you state it then? It would be useless if he did already.
If you want nich to answer you, pester him to answer those questions. Same with OS, ask for the stances.
Hmmm, I hadn’t seen much posts from Adum.

I'm around post #180 and Gordito looks as a valid lynch option toDay. The whole replacing out thing is a null read and I'm surprised people are getting a town read from that. People are already forgetting answers like "let me live until D3", or the scummy reactions with the "oh no you got me" picture

I would't be surprised at all if X1 flips scum, although he is just playing recklessly with votes and dumbly ignoring certain players like me or Nich. Also how can you say you weren't putting much attention on Gord's posts when you were pressuring him a lot? That's hella scummy... X1, what's your mafia record as town, or what's your win/loss ratio as town aprox (same question as scum)? I'm really interested in how effective this playstyle has been for you

Red Ryu is also getting mad scummy, his "contributions" are non-existent, he's just playing it safe. Gonna check his posts later and see what I get

I agree, that was dumb of Gordito. Has anyone noticed Gord doing this as scum or just regardless of alignment (Those who have played with him at least once more)

Why wouldn’t you be surprised if X1 flipped scum? Would you feel Zen would be aligned with him, or not? (wagon wise)

Yeah I have a null read on Red Ryu so far. Need more posts from him.

I've played one game with Gord before, and most of the game while Gord was alive I was kinda inactive. Gord was scum that game and was very wishy washy. If anything this only reinforces Gord is likely scum, trying to immediatly put a relative powerful player as adumb on town side thus putting him in high risk of being nkilled.

unvote
vote: Gordito/glg

Lynching Gord/glg would give us a lot of reads on Zen, X1, adumbrodeus, among other players. But I'm not voting Gord just for reads, that's just a plus, I honestly think he acted quite scummy in RVS

Red Ryu you pretty much ignored all this discussion on Gordito, If you haven't already I'd like to hear your take on his attitude on RVS and Zen's accusations

Have you ever played with Gord as town?

So you are voting Gord/GLG for reads and for acting scummy in RVS? How sure do you think he would be scum?

glg: What are your other reads besides Nich? Would you be fine with dying for reads? Why or why not?

Defending town isn't a sure scummy thing. You're just wrong about that. But since it's what you believe, do you think x1 and Nabe are scummy for defending Gordito? Both x1 & Nabe have defended him multiple times now and have even insulted people for being on the wagon. Are they scum for this? If not, why not? And what makes their case different than Nichs?



Nich: What are you thinking about Overswarm right now? Do you still think x1 is scum? You said you were skeptical about x1's gambit, but does that mean you think he's lying or you just don't know and are null on the matter?

Do you still think glg is scum? Do any of his posts come out as town to you? What do you think about his vt claim?

Do you want him lynched only for reads?

You say defending town isn’t a sure scummy thing, but you never say why he is wrong about that. So, why is defending town not a sure scummy thing?

A+!

Except the last part. I haven't actually looked into Gord but I do remember seeing a post that I thought was scummy, so.

Overswarm: Where's Gordito's picture response post that you guys keep referring to?

Anyone: How many people would advocate a BeatStick wagon?

Beatstick doesn’t seem to be scummy to me. Wagoning a bit (need to see his case) but why do you want to get a Beatstick lynch going? I’d say it would just be as useless as a Luxor lynch. Although Luxor was a bit dumb early on.

Believe it or not, I think Overswarm is town. I mean, his reads have been lining up pretty well with mine this game, and I haven't seen anything really scummy from him. (Although, if he ends up being scum buddying me to keep me from tunneling on him, I'll hate myself for this.)

As far as X1 goes, I'm leaning scum on him, mainly because I'm leaning towards him lying as far as the gambit goes. I don't see the point of it as far as reads go (although it does explain why he was ignoring me). How he responds as far as his case on OS and stuff will likely sway me one way or the other

Hold on here. You claimed earlier that defending AT ALL was scummy, not just defending in a particular manner. (I'm sure I can dig up quotes if you need 'em.) So, which is it, scum?

So because you agree with OS, you think he is town? FoS: Nicholas.

Why do you think X1 lied? Could there be a possibility he didn’t lie? Do you think he actually pulled some good results from his gambit? (read: reads)

Ryu, where's that"full post" you promised us?

Vote: Red Ryu

Did he ever get back to you with a full post? Why do you think he didn’t?

School's Internet is down so I can't make a full post right now (on my iPhone atm). A lot happened since last night for me and it's kind of hard for me to catch up, but I'll try.*

@Zen's ? a page or two back asking "who do you think is scum? Why aren't you voting them?"
I'm really unsure of my reads at this point. I'm not totally confident of my skills, first of all- but that's not really an excuse, and I should figure out exactly what I think rather than think nothing. My confusion is only compounded by Raz's inactivity, FF's lack of delivery on his promise, etc. Of the players who have been fairly active, I feel X1 is town based on meta. Again, I'm unsure of my read- I was only in one game with him (SC) and I[/] was hardly in that game due to my hydra with Kuz. However, in that game X1's mafia play was very conservative, something you yourself called him out for. His play here (see gambit) is MUCH scummier, and therefore he's LESS scummy, or underwent a massive change in his mafia playstyle.

Adumbrodeus hasn't posted much recently, but he's an interesting one. I'd reference some interesting things here but iPhone johns.*

Glyph is interesting as well. He said he was going scumhunting and found some flaw that made BeatStick a target for his vote. I'm really starting to dislike that play- it was almost jokingly done, but that joking is how scum cover up their scumminess. On the other hand, town dothat plenty too, so it's highly ambiguous. I'm actually going to go back and review Glyph before Adum, i.e. Glyph is higher on my iffy list. He's posted juuuuust enough to be "active" but not enough to be a big contributor. I'll post back later today about what I see in him once I go through all his posts.*


BeatStick gives me townie vibes. Nich too, but I don't have a lot of concrete evidence for either and will review them later.*

OS is OS. His aggression doesn't mean anything to me, as he's said before that on the Internet he takes on an aggressive persona. That aggression could translate into scumhood as well, but I haven't begun to scratch the surface if all the things he's said recently- too too too much lol. His first huge post was well thought out and stunk of town to me, though.*

Rajam, now there's a scum candidate IMO. That's just the vibe I'm getting, I'll dig up some dirt on him in my later post.*

GLG is town IMO, again no evidence but vibes.*

FF is experienced enough that his failure to post could be an ingenious scumplay, but since he's so inactive the only scumtell is his inactivity. Raz is scummy IMO for the same reason, but there's insufficient data to compute a meaningful answer.

I think Luxor is town. /humor

That's where I stand right now. I'll research into Glyph, Adum, and Rajam a bit more today if the schoolnet comes back, and hopefully refine my position on those three.*

Oh, you have played with X1 in another game besides Soul Calibur? What game was that, and what role was he?

Wait… You say you were in only one game with X1. X1 was Mafia Godmother in SC. How does that translate to town meta for him? Please explain.

Also, he attacked me from the start of the game, and had me lynched. You call that conservative? I was town. Even though my defense may have been poor due to my language and not knowing how to deal with pressure, he still wasn’t acting conservative.

Here I just find that he hadn’t posted much at all. Need to see more posts from him.

Also, Glyph seemed to just wagon vote, like an idiot.

Really? Well I hope you can use your computer to reference those Adum stances, want to see ‘em.

Ok, I can see you can’t read OS. I can’t either yet. Only thing I have to go off is X1 and OS targeting each other from the start.

Ah, do you have more evidence now for Beatsticktown! And Nichtown!? Also if you think Beatstick is town, why did you vote him early on? Be honest. Was it an RVS vote?


So here is your list from your post there:
X1 - Town
Adum – null
Glyph – Ambiguous, null
Beatstick – Town
Nich – Town
OS – Null
Rajam - Scum
GLG – Town
FF – Experienced Lurker scum


Has any of these stances changed? Why or why not?

You've made a large post with reasoning and stances on most players. I like it. I don't think you're confirmed town for that ofc, but it's a really good start. When can we expect to get the rest of the reviews?

You're dropping your first idea entirely, because of ONE single post? And one that isn't even related to me on top of that. Does that one post really make you consider me town, from previously wanting to wagon me? If not (which I'm pretty sure is the case), why didn't you say something along the lines of "BeatStick wagon can wait" instead of "Forget BeatStick"? Did you even have a reason for wanting to wagon me in the first place? Or was it just pseudo-scum hunting?

And you really need to post more. FF and Red Ryu has stated when they are going to start posting (though Ryu didn't keep his promise), cdubs and Luxor are slowly becoming more active, but you just post a few really short posts before going inactive again. I might've missed it, but I don't think you've even stated a reason.

Do you think Forget Beatstick would automatically clear you as town in his eyes?

Do you believe he can’t be convinced by that one post? Why not?

Luxor Glyph case

Yep, he didn’t post much.


I think he was trying to pressure a player that was on his level. He didn’t really have any stances. Lynching Gord/GLG is dumb. Doesn’t seem scummy to me. But it was a low blow.

How are you sure in which way he meant “safe”? His reason was weak to vote, but he felt sure that he could vote. Better than being unsure.

Why did you think him saying it was safe imply to you that it was safe from others to see that he was voting Beatstick?

Do you think he was trying to hide something? Why or why not?

“Was Beatstick outright lying about his talents?”

Why were you assuming no for that moment?

Why is safety important for scum? Why is safety not important for town?

Why a maybe on Vult Redux?

 

[Beat!]

*Grabs bowl with popcorn*

 

[ranmaru]

Vult Redux analysis.

Reeks of scumhunt to me, while being carefully crafted in a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very noncommittal way. It's not, "Would anyone like to join me in a Beat lynch?" or even "Beat looks scummy, we should lynch." He totally removes any pronouns referring to himself, laying any blame for any votes Beat might get on the mysterious "people." He's literally suggesting "somebody go lead a scumhunt on Beat for me while I relax in safety." Safety is scum's true desire. This is the biggest "OMG LUUUUKSOOR HE EATS DIRT" tell. Vult Redux, if you're reading this, I want a reason for both
A. trying to start this bandwagon
B. trying to start it the way you did.


Upon seeing his casual offer to end Beat's game rejected by the populace, Vult has a sudden change of opinion, deciding to go after one of the town's leading voices (assuming he is town obv). Sudden changes in opinion without any evident reasoning = scumtell.


Inactivity=scumtell.

So, Vult, respond to my question in this post or you're scum.

Hmmm, well he didn’t ask if anyone would join him. Do you think that makes him super scummy? Also, I don’t know why he wants a beatstick lynch. I’m not for it.

What do you think of Raziek?

Also, why do you think Vult had a sudden change of opinion? (since you say he didn’t include any evident reasoning)

Really? Why is inactivity a scumtell?

What if he missed it? Would he still be scum? Why or why not?

I'd like to see Glyph try to explain away what I've said before I jump on him, same as with Vult. They could very well be scumbuddies, but with Raz, FF, Adum, and Rajam all on the suspect list I can't say for sure. If Glyph were to be lynched and flipped town, I don't think we'd get anything from it at all. FoS would naturally lead to other people on my scumlist.

@Vult Redux and Glyph: Explain... things. kthxbai

Why do you think Glyph/Me and Vult could have been scumbuddies?

So would you still condone a Glyph/Me lynch if it was possible I flipped town? Why or why not?

Zen is looking pretty scummy. X1 is posting small and not really helping.

X1 is trying to distance himself at this point, confirmed town? I'm getting a town vibe from you but not really anyone after that. I'll need to keep looking around and continue hunting before I can get more town vibes.
You immediately ask people to jump on when Zen was the only person to post, pretty quick to get people to jump on, maybe to hide your scum buddies perhaps?

You tell people that if they want to look like town they should vote on Gordy. But the message you are sending is, "vote Gordy or your next to be lynched" Why are were you getting people to follow the Zen bandwagon and make it seem like you were contributing stuff like this.

Instead of giving reasoning you tell off another saying they are dumb for not jumping on the band wagon to thinking list = scum for Gordy.

You vote and drop it constantly on multiple people. You don't stick to people or go investigating you seem to just let other people do it rather than you making anything legit.
.

From your stances, do you think X1 is town even though he doesn’t give reasoning, brushes people off with insults (like people say about Gordy in RVS)

Also, about him voting and saying town should vote him, do you think anyone fell for his gambit? Why or why not?

And you should read my posts too, you totally ignored my question:

"I would't be surprised at all if X1 flips scum, although he is just playing recklessly with votes and dumbly ignoring certain players like me or Nich. Also how can you say you weren't putting much attention on Gord's posts when you were pressuring him a lot? That's hella scummy... X1, what's your mafia record as town, or what's your win/loss ratio as town aprox (same question as scum)? I'm really interested in how effective this playstyle has been for you"

He recently got lynched in SC as Mafia Godmother. Check it.

Do you think he is scum purposely ignoring your questions?

@Rajam: Firstly know that in a game that Gordito just finished modding, I claimed N0 cop. Gordito knew it was a gambit, as did Nabe (#67 & #78). Secondly think really hard about what possible reason anyone as scum would have doing as I did.

Your gambit worked because it seemed Kuz reacted badly as scum, and you had a somewhat strong stance of Swiss being town.

How effective do you believe this gambit was? How could it have gone wrong?

All I wanted on gordito was votes, and to see who would or would not vote him when asked/threatened. Zen's case is and always has been bull**** and I don't associate myself with it.

Again, who did you see who fell for your gambit? What was the “results” of the gambit?

Don't ignore me, Nich and OS. You've both posted since I made this post. Answer me.

unvote
Vote: Overswarm
You ARE one of those people being questioned.

Anyway, why do you not post more content? You're not inactive in any way, but all your posts are so short. Don't you have any cases you want to bring up?


Vult, you need to get online and answer me too.

Why do you think they ignored you?

Why do you think OS is posting short messages?

Also, how do you think Vult could see that question from being offline and then magically appear online? (Basically, that question was useless)

Why don't you just play a town game and not say one thing and mean another, get caught, then say "lol, gambit!"

Why do you think X1 is playing this way? It’s not very helpful if he is town and it only confuses us.

It was pretty obvious from the beginning that x1 was only on the wagon for pressure and reads.

Only if you just read what he said like a brainless munchkin.

If you agree about him telling the truth about his gambit, what did you think of the gambit? Was it good, or bad? Would you want to see him try it again? Why or why not?

Hm?


@Vult: Sorry that you find it personally offensive. It's not meant to come out that way. I just don't think that if you can't even read the game you shouldn't drag others down. You've asked a couple of times for people to slow down posting and to make shorter posts and that you weren't going to read longer posts. And despite this you had been making accusations without even reading. So I really don't mean to be rude, but if you're not going to be able to keep up with the most basic things you should at least hold your judgement until you can or just replace out.

If your simply pretending to not be reading as a part of your strategy, then my apologies.

I agree with this. Get used to it Vult.

If that is then he is just dumb idiot null. Din for short.

lolwat @ blatant bandwagonning with an attempted "lol y u guiz so serious in RVS" disarming statement.


You're voting for someone because you're curious as to why he gets offended so easily? Wait what? You don't even take a stance as to whether or not you think him being offended as anything to do with his alignment. This just feels really kneejerk to me.

Why are you asking him if it's dangerous? Afraid to take a stance on meta reads and how qualified they might be at this stage in the game? This is such an empty question that really serves no purpose other than to lead another player's direction of discussion, question his reads, and ultimately not take any stance and just appear to be contributing. Probably the scummiest post in the game up to this point.

Weird jump on the Gordito wagon. "Hey guys check it out I know what wagons are going on and I'm gonna act like I'm important and stuff and start grilling Gordito to, like I'm some kind of arbitrator between him and his attackers." This just gives me a deliberately fency "Hey player X, player Y said some **** about you, how does that make you feel" vibe, again, similar to Red Ryu's post that I just commented on. It doesn't add anything to the discussion but just makes you look like an active proponent of the wagon, but also keep the door open to switch to defense if necessary.

Do you think that was just a newb mistake? Since it seems he won a game as scum only because town was inactive and wasn’t really pressued in the BBR.

I think that was a weak reason for him to vote.

Why do you think he said that?

I think that was really stupid wagoning. Very weak stance.

For right now I am keeping my vote on OS, and unless something compelling comes up I plan on keeping it there. However, I will list other players I am suspicious of.

Beatstick. Though I appreciate your vote on OS in Post#361,



That being said, I think there is information to be gained by voting GLG. If GLG is town, I would like to vote Raz, if GLG is scum, nich, Beatstick, and myself (and possibly others) would all need to come under scrutiny for defending him.
.

So are you lynching GLG for reads, or because he is scummy? Why or why not?

Why don’t you vote GLG first then? Why keep it on OS?

@Nabe
I'll see if I can't find some reasoning later.

Why couldn’t you find reasoning at that time?

First, about Glyph. Here's a list of relevant quotes:

/quotes

The quote you're referring is obviously the one in which he votes Gordito. To be honest, I forgot about that one. However, I still find that the case against Glyph has merit, even if somewhat weakened. Glyph still hasn't contributed a lot (but has posted just enough), changed his vote to join the bandwagon with no apparent reasoning (maybe it was just pressure, maybe it wasn't), and overall I don't like him. I DO think that Glyph shouldn't be a priority at this point- Vult Redux is more scummy (and hence has my vote), Raz is more scummy, even Red Ryu is more scummy.

What made you consider Glyph less scummy now? What made you re-consider him for being a viable lynch toDay?

I'll go over GLG/Gord now. Keep in mind that I only have a soft town read on them right now.


We're beyond X1's gambit here. Lists of questions are not a scumtell obv, but IMO they're something more of a towntell. Asking questions to proactively promote discussion is a very townie thing to do as I see it. This is minor though, and not at all indicative one way or the other.

Consistent with RVS humor and joviality.

Uuuuh... GLG's posts are a lot harder to analyze. Suffice it to say that I don't find them inherently scummy, and that if anyone shows forth some killer evidence that they/he are/is scum, I'd buy it. Such evidence may already have come forth but whenever posts began mentioning GLG/Gord my brain went into skim mode.

Why is asking a list of questions in RVS a town tell? (It’s a null tell actually)

So he is townie for being humorous? How about Zen? Is he Humorous in RVS?

So you would wait until someone else hands you a case instead of making it yourself? Oh, you said you skimmed. Did you re-read to get a better read on GLG? What did you learn if you did?

OS can be readily compared to X1. They're both pretty experienced mafia players, and they're both difficult to read. A detailed analysis of Overswarm would take all day, but I *think* he's town. His first big post, the REALLY big post, seems pretty townie. There's been a back-and-forth between him and Zen since then, but I don't think that reveals a whole lot.

And I'm more townie now because I figured out how to play this game lol.

So you say OS is experienced and hard to read, but you say he is town from his first post? What do you think of his posts after his first post? You say they don’t reveal a whole lot? That would mean he would be null then.

Hmmm. Has your stance strengthened up since then? Why or why not?

Also, I think that if more than one person defends a person, scum can also defend along with that person and people wouldn’t be sure as to who is the scummy person.

So, how many people defended him? Why did you think they did? Which one seemed the scummiest defense to you?

@Cdubs
I just like to think that good players have a plan with everything they do. I mean why would scumGord panik because of a few players putting focus on him early game? He must've experienced that several times. I admit that a lot of his posts look scummy at first glance, but afaik, he's GOOD! Why would he just give up like that? I don't buy it. So basically, his "scummy" behavior that early was what made me believe he was town.

Ok, first of all, why did you think he was a good player? I never played with Gord before, but I wouldn’t think that he is good since no one has really told me about his play. I also wouldn’t know he was bad either.

But again, why did you think he was good?

@ Beatstick. As for the D1 lynch, I have several individuals I think may be scum and would be willing to lynch. I personally would most like to lynch OS. I am not sure I see that much connecting going on with OS, so I would guess that he has some independent allignment.

If OS ever flipped scum, lynch X1. They have been attacking each other from the start. (I think X1 started it tho, so it should be on him)






Big glyph case=================

unvote

19:

He knows Red Ryu, and it seems they play occasionally or something.

Here’s his quote:

Before I go to bed, the talk of me and Glyph is because we were in the Disco mafia, Legion of Doom mafia, and this one, so we joked about it.

It's not game related just a convo right when the game started about how we keep ending up in games together.

Vult vote: Sounds like an RVS vote to me… *checks*

Yep, RVS. Post 20.

21:

From this speculation, Gord and Glyph would be as scummy as each other, correct?

But later one you say:

“Gord making a serious question which demands some work on Glyph. It is an early indication that both Gord and Glyph probably aren't scummates”

Explain that.


Ryu/Glyph interaction:

So what do you think? Do you think they are scum plotting to seem as though townies in RVS?

If so, what do you think of Ryu then?

Vult’s plea to voting Glyph:
So, if saying vote glyph please is bussing, do you think X1 was bussing Gord/GLG?


So, if you think Glyph was capable of bussing, why don’t you think Gord was capable of passing off as town questioning his possible Glyph!buddy? Do you think Scum mates don’t talk to each other in the thread?

Glyphs HAHAHA and flavor talk:

So do you think scum have an urge to go “hahaha” in RVS? Near the end before he replaced out, had Glyph said HAHAHA to something serious?

I think it wasn’t a bad topic in RVS, in Fireemblem. Fire Emblem has a lot of characters, so it would be interesting to talk about possible flavor options and discussion, which could lead town out of RVS and into serious discussion (even though Glyph didn’t post much due to inactivity)

Important Zen note:

I don’t know why he would ignore gord’s apparent scumminess, but why would you [Zen] think he is ignoring his scumminess and not disagreeing with it? Gord didn’t seem obv scummy with a picture.

“The What. Where? is addressed to Zen.” Yet you never say that it could also be Glyph asking Zen for proof of him ignoring Gord.

“confirmation of Gord and Glyph not being scummates.”

Are you trying to semi-clear Gord? If Glyph/I flipped town you/Gord scum team could be assumed from that connection you made.

Zen note:

How would Zen know that?

Glyph’s Wagon, hop on:

It was dumb. Not scummy, just very dumb. But I could see very clearly why he would be called out as scum for this. Would you lynch him solely for this?

Vult connection2:
Remember, it was Vult who actually claimed he was Glyphs stalker. Do you think there is a possibility Vult was attacking Glyph to seem like he is bussing early in your eyes?

Zen quote:

That’s Zen, not Raziek. (I’m looking from your quote, I’ll check)

Nope, that was Zen’s post. (I like you posting the links to these, I wonder if there is an easier way to do that… ) That’s Zen reffering to Vult.

Why do you think Vult answered that then and not before? How long did it take?

Gordito can't be cleared if Glyph were to flip scum; they need to keep him in the scum side.

Also seems here Zen is semi-clearing Gord. Zen says Either Gord or Glyph would be scum, not both. Then why would he push such a case on GBoy if only one of them were scum. What do you think of this?

Nabe and Glyph parrot/wagon:

Glyph did like a dumb parrot. I agree. Bad play, not scummy.

Glyph not giving a reason reasoning:

He didn’t. He didn’t give a reason, but that is still bad play. Do you think Glyph would do this with intent? Have you seen him play better than this before? Give me some proof.

Yes, OS is right. Dumb. Not scummy. Also, intereaction between Ryu and Glyph seem to be from outside the thread. Also would make sense since they both are mods. Yet again, Ryu has explained the interaction.

Here is the quote again:

Before I go to bed, the talk of me and Glyph is because we were in the Disco mafia, Legion of Doom mafia, and this one, so we joked about it.

It's not game related just a convo right when the game started about how we keep ending up in games together.

So, if Glyph/Ryu Interaction because of past games means something, what does Zen questioning my confidence as opposed to him seeing my play in Soul Calibur? (He mostly ignored me there, and was tunneling my attacker, BSL, but I did question him, it was odd)

Ok, null, not scummy. Why is this here? This is to catch scum, not null.

Bit o’ scumhuntin lake:

Maybe he likes to scum hunt? Or at least he likes to say he is scumhunting. Honestly I don’t know why he wanted to say that.

X1 question:
This isn’t part of the case, just a question asking X1 about why he thinks Glyph/Lux are together. Basically, it’s not fact.

Glyph Beastick case:
Not my case broski. Beatstick isn’t scummy to me. Just dumb like Luxor.


“I'm saying you can't conclude that because of one post and consequently "drawing" that conclusion is fake behavior.”

Was Vult wrong? Also, why didn’t you include the quote? (but you did link it, thankfully)

“Vult do you always believe you can't deduce stuff from one post”

Does this mean you could decipher scum from one post?

Then what do you think of Beatstick’s response to Vult?

Zen original post Vult thought made Zen scummy:

Epic post by Rajam. I'm gonna have to take notes.

Why do you have to take notes?

Vote: Glyph

I could see

Glyph-Vult
Glyph-Ryu
Not Glyph-x1

x1 just thinks Glyph is town from meta. And x1 is town so he can't be Glyph's scumbuddy (x1 town really should be taken as fact especially if I'm not around in the future).

I could also see Glyph-OS

^

I'm going to be sad if you actually turn out to be town this game.

You posted some connection scenarios, but not much of a case. Rajam did, and Luxor did too. Both of them had a case and not you.

You are wagoning.

Vote: Glyph

Very good post by rajam.

Also, what Zen said.

Beatstick wagoning along with Zen.

unvote vote: Glyph

I'm gonna get some mileage outta my vote.

Luxor reffering to Beatstick’s wagon, which he needs fuel with his vote.

================================================

I AM DONE.OMG ALL THAT WORK. It’s 5:30 pm now. Bye guys, I’ll look at posts later.

There's a bit of stuff from X1 that I'll reply this week. The most important was the glyph case for now... I'm tired. I'll come back later to view posts... Maybe I'll post. I'm exhausted.

Well, off to class.

 

[Beat!]

Lol ninja

Hiyaa