Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[T-block]

they help lightning by giving themselves up, which is also against their win con

heck, if both were pretty solidly pinned, as they were in this game, i would argue that helping town is more in line with their win con than dying, as it's their only method of survival.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Imo town sealed their fate when they lynched J. Don't know why they did it but he's like the only player capeable to get a scumbag playing this well.

Xonar, you're right. That's why I stop playing in hydras for good. Same ish happened @MMX mafia. I just have too little trust in my own reads and as soon as my hydra buddy is like "nawww but listen to ME" I start thinking that I might just be wrong and neglect my initial read. That's why I often try to not explain my reads in other games because I feel I give up on them too easily as soon as an alternative is presented.

Idk why people think Swiss is good at this game, he's not terrible but he's not the great player people think he is either *shrug*

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Did I link Dark Horse to it, if I forgot that was my bad.

You didn't.

You know this game makes me think that you hate me. First the role pm, and now the dead QT.

 

[Rajam]

awwwayeahyeshwawowsadsdsadsadljljkljlkj!!!

*Bro fist*
MvP: Brosuke

Spoiler

but yeah, well played to brosuke overall for sure

cool game - i'm really disappointed it was hosted during finals and i didn't get to participate.

fire team, if you really wanted to help town, you should have convinced town to let you live, and i think it would have been a good decision by town to do so. as long as both scum teams are alive, a claimed CCop is actually fairly safe, and he is actually completely safe if the claimed scum team is genuinely trying to help town. by following the incap of town, you make it so that capping the CCop is a complete waste of an incap, and you basically give town an extra lynch. that limits the lightning team to also incap scummy players, which is also good for town. NK was really nerfed in that respect - eliminating fire right away was a terrible idea. i'm actually surprised brosuke was the one to suggest keeping fire around - would have gotten him a lot of town points from me if i had been playing.

interesting thing about this game is that claimed CCop is actually not likely to be double incapped even if both scum teams are still hidden. for those familiar with game theory, i think it works out to be a prisoner's dilemma type situation. from fire's perspective, if lightning incaps the CCop, fire could off the CCop as well, but i think it is more advantageous to have complete control over the kill and try to eliminate the other faction. if lightning incaps someone else, fire should also incap someone else because incapping the CCop is a waste of an incap. so, in no matter what lightning chooses to do, fire's dominant strategy is to incap someone else. lightning sees the same situation, so the end result is both incaps not being on the CCop.

i thought we were going to see that when both fires were outed, and i was pretty excited, but instead the game turned into 6 vanilla 2 goon lol;;

Not to mention Fire didn't have any motivation for uncapping Circus after both Gorf and KevM were outed

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You didn't.

You know this game makes me think that you hate me. First the role pm, and now the dead QT.

Those were mod mistakes.



I'm sorry.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

****ING DIED LOL

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Imo town sealed their fate when they lynched J. Don't know why they did it but he's like the only player capeable to get a scumbag playing this well.

J replaces into AM mafia lylo. Calls out all the scum (minus Kantrip I think).

 

[#HBC | J]

This was an incredibly fun game to play and I must really thank RR for letting me replace even though I wasn't on the replacement list and I had disappeared for quite some time.

I think I'm just going to only start replacing into games because it seems I have the most fun during those times.

Lol Ryker so terrible, he got lynched in MyLo. x3c

Xonar, I hate/love you and so happy you won even though I was town. You just deserved this win.

I'll do proper shout-outs later and get to Raz' thingy.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Gheb, I'm confused here. What you're saying isn't true. I looked through our hydra logs to make sure, and I found that I never told you to just "listen to me," or that you were wrong. Very early on I told you that I wasn't fully convinced with your case on July, but I chaanged that after awhile.

So what are you basing this off of? You had a correct Xonar read near the end of Day 1, and I don't believe that I did anything to deter that.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Super big GGs to Xonar for owning this game. One of the only guys who can get away with calling me dense without making me angry. Will be glad to hydra with you again in any game you want. =3

****ING DIED LOL

*DEAD*

What tourny did you get this from?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Last question is @ Rajam, btw.

 

[T-block]

it's ocean beating m2k at apex2012

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, I'm confused here. What you're saying isn't true. I looked through our hydra logs to make sure, and I found that I never told you to just "listen to me," or that you were wrong. Very early on I told you that I wasn't fully convinced with your case on July, but I chaanged that after awhile.

So what are you basing this off of? You had a correct Xonar read near the end of Day 1, and I don't believe that I did anything to deter that.

You didn't.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

J replaces into AM mafia lylo. Calls out all the scum (minus Kantrip I think).

AM mafia = ???

 

[Asdioh]

I still don't quite understand what "cleared" Brosuke.


edit: awkward moments, gheb. the one where i had the entire scumteam listed as town

 

[Kantrip]

Awkward Moments. The only game where people actually thought I was town.

Oh yeah thanks for modding Red Ryu, this was a cool mechanic (that I missed because of replacing after a scumteam was gone).

 

[Asdioh]

modding is a pretty cool mechanic

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh btw, Ryker and J made that bet when they were fighting each other.

Looks like they'll both have to succumb to their ends of the bet. Good **** guys, that was amazingly amusing to read.

Full shout-outs Monday.

 

[July]

MVP: Brosuke

Brosuke your scum play this game was legen...wait for it...

DARY!!

That was my main take away from this game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh btw, Ryker and J made that bet when they were fighting each other.

Looks like they'll both have to succumb to their ends of the bet. Good **** guys, that was amazingly amusing to read.

Full shout-outs Monday.

Nope, he had no balls.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He played a lot better than you though.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And ?

 

[Swiss]

Idk why people think Swiss is good at this game, he's not terrible but he's not the great player people think he is either *shrug*

Haha, you always used to tell me how good I was and how us two were amongst the best until you had a run of three of four terribad games and I openly called you out on it. Can't just about face on a stance because you got called out breh. Not even gonna point out my two main scumpicks were right (Gorf, Raj) - was wrong on Xonar and never read a post by Kev. Wait, did I just point that out?

Xonar played well, even if he is a little over-impressed with himself.

Ryker, so wrong. Lol.

 

[Swiss]

Had Xonar dropped a few scumtells D3 (was it D3?) his game would've been perfect imo. In my eyes took a risk staying uber town (didn't really read after I died so been going on what people told me).

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

J > Ryker as a mafia player.

 

[Swiss]

Haha if there's one way to get me or Ryker in a thread it's to insult our ability. I got the skype message saying lol @ xonar/gheb go read F&L, seconds later I'm posting.

Dat modesty.

 

[#HBC | J]

1. th3kuzinator/Swiss
@Kuzi: Guess everyone just has a bad game. Your reads were silly, but *shrug* what do. Loved that after my first post you had me as scum in your personal QT.

@Swiss: You played a good game in the sense of reads it seemed. Thanks for replacing in for the slot! It gave us stuff to work with. ^^

2. brosuke

Grrr you. I remember as soon as I found out you were scum I was kicking myself so much. I honestly had you as brownie townie the entire game until around D3 during the me vs. Ryker debate but I didn't wanna say anything yet because of the pure fact you controlled so much of the thread. I am sad with myself I didn't push that grammar slip-up with you moreso because it was right. Oh wellz, fantastically well played Xonar and I cannot wait to play with you again.

3. Raziek

That thingy I wanted you to bring up at post game was because I never got to say it in MM mafia I believe. I really wanted to apologize for using the buddying against ya there especially considering it was your first time using it. ;_; However with this game I also wanna tell ya something. You need to become more of a force during the beginning stages of the game instead of near the later part where it almost resulted in your lynch a couple of times. However, I am chalking it up to your CPU being stupid so yeah but still I'm really curious to see a Raz who makes himself a force in a game because I feel that would be entertaining.

4. Ryker

So much to say to your slot but probably not going to. Like Kuzi this was far from a good game for ya. =[ Oh wellz, as I said above, everyone has a bad game so I guess better luck next time for ya. You really need to stop just doing anti-cases as your primary defense. You played incredibly scummy this game and it caught up to ya in the end. *shruggers*

5. JO_OEY/J

So close to getting all the scummies. ;_; Maybe next time. Also next time, don't get lynched without having a case on you.

6. Gordito

TBH, I liked your play this game as scum up until you claiming it but then we got that super bond going and it was awesome. Can't wait till we play again Gorf!

7. KevinM

Had ya as scum from my first post. ^^" Sorry 'bout that but I just found ya really scummy this entire game because of the way you were playing but oh well. Nothing much to say otherwise. Good game! =D

8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01)

We didn't get to play but if it's any consolation, I would have uncapped your slot over Kuzi's for the death. ^^" I didn't see you guys as scum.

9. July

Your lynch was stupid. >.> I am also upset I didn't get to play with you but oh wellz another game. You just got beaten over the head by Kuzi which was a bit weird on his part especially considering I thought you were playing really town July. =x

10. Rajam

I don't really remember your slot that much beside the more you posted near the end of the games, I disliked your slot so I went back to re-read your slot and I saw ya as a bit scummy. =x Congratz on your side winning!

11. Circus

Sorry for making you claim duder. ">.> Regardless your night picks were a really good decision and helped us pin the Fire Team completely on D2. Sad about your activity but *shrug* I know how life can be but regardless thanks for sticking it through. I was shocked how complacent you were in the beginning to other people and going with the flow but it made sense once you claimed your results.

12. Dark_Horse

You played really towny so yaaaaay on that part. I can't remember much besides just having you as about as equal town as Xonar.

13. Soupamario/Kanty
@Soupa: Nothing really to say. =P
@Kanty: Stop being so silly when it matters. =P Don't really have much to say to ya either besides to be more careful I guess.

Congratz to the Lightning Mafia because the really deserved the win in this game! ^^

 

[Circus]

11. Circus

Sorry for making you claim duder. ">.> Regardless your night picks were a really good decision and helped us pin the Fire Team completely on D2. Sad about your activity but *shrug* I know how life can be but regardless thanks for sticking it through. I was shocked how complacent you were in the beginning to other people and going with the flow but it made sense once you claimed your results.

'Scool. I expected to be suspected due to how inactive I was (which was partially to avoid incap, but mostly due to actual life business, but you know that since you had to take my spot in Lost); I just hoped I'd be able to coast past D2. The only reason I really even stuck in this one was because this was the first game in which I've ever been assigned a Cop variant, and I really wanted to try my hand at it. Relatively successful, I think, with everything considered.

Nice play, aside from giving yourself up at the end. Sorry for starting to suspect you toward the end of my life. I was operating from a Ryker-really-must-be-scum frame of mind, and you fit well with him to me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Had Xonar dropped a few scumtells D3 (was it D3?) his game would've been perfect imo. In my eyes took a risk staying uber town (didn't really read after I died so been going on what people told me).

Agree here. Buuuutttt it worked, so it's cool.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

My primary defense shouldn't be that the case against me is bad? .....J?

 

[#HBC | J]

That's all you did though Ryker near the end of the game. ._."

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's all I was left. A bad game is a bad game, but that doesn't change the fact that the go to defense for a town player is to disassemble the case.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

1. th3kuzinator/Swiss
Kuziiii, so we finally played together. Sorta. Too bad you dropped out, too bad about your reads. Thanks for the game regardless, and I hope everything works out for ya.

Swiss, well, you didn't really play that much. Good call on Raj/Gorf.

2. Brosuke
I hate rolling scum.

3. Raziek
Youuuu were scary towards endgame. I felt that if anyone would be able to find me out, it would've been you. Your style is mad scary imo, the only thing you lack is your lack of early game presence, even though I understand why. This time it cornered you, that and your computer. It's no biggie. Me, I'm mostly secretive D1 and just drop everything on D2 / sometimes D3. It's just style, as long as you allure to knowing things, it's all cool.
Oh and the final 'version' of your case was lightyears beyond the other stuff. It's more persuasive.

4. Ryker
Bad game bro. No comments, really. Only that convincing people that a case is bad doesn't necessarily mean that you convince them that you are town/the other person is scum.

5. J
I honestly don't believe that you had me as scum, sorry. The grammar slip was a bad basis for suspicion and I think it's pretty bad if you legit suspected me based on that. Besides that, you played a good game, except for when you just submitted to dying. Guess your time schedule is pretty harsh here.
Besides, I slip up even when I am town like that. It's not telling of my alignment at all.

6. GorditoBoy69
I didn't have you as scum at all, so good play. If I wasn't so persuasive towards Rajam you could've inflicted some serious damage... even though I don't think anything in this game could've really outed me as scum. Good play regardless.

7. KevinM
No real comments. Your original suspicion was off from my intentions even though I was scum. You didn't really play a lot.

8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01)
Died quite soon. No real comments, I had you as obvtown

9. July
't was fun talking to you after you died, girly! :3 We'll **** next game

10. Rajam
Out of this entire list, the best partner I could've wished for. There was no chance of you getting incapped, and you played a great game, setting up amazing WIFOM once you died. I felt kinda bad getting you lynched, but oh well. Thanks bunches!

11. Circus
Your inactivity was too bad Good copping though, definitely liked it. Was a great boon to town (and scum )

12. Dark_Horse
You didn't really play a lot. In my honest opinion, you would've been really weak wouldn't it be for that slip up on the beginning. I legit thought you were scum even after fire died.

13. Kantrip
I already commented on you, Kantrip. Keep going bro!

 

[Rajam]

1. th3kuzinator
Horrible reads lol. Other than that, I disagree with the way you deal with your town reads that are obnoxiously anti-town or aren't doing anything, like me or DH for example. The worst thing you can do is giving them a free pass to continue with the way they're behaving. Either hold hands with them, tell them how bad they're doing and that you expect a big change on that, pressure them, etc. but deffinitely don't leave them around for free, even if you strongly think they're town.

Swiss
You did well when you were actually playing :O at least you were the first person that seriously considered me scum

2. Brosuke
Simply ****. I think all of our main strategies worked out. D1 was free. D2 was gold. D3 the bus worked perfectly but not in the sense of clearing you (you were already "clear" anyways), but in the sense of giving several wrong connections later. Also the way you handled the final Days was superb; I was afraid you wouldn't be able to withstand, but you proved me wrong. Our teamwork in the QT was also cool; we used it wisely and with almost no disagreements. A deffinitely deserved victory <3

3. Raziek
D1+D2 with basically no choke between us helped Lightning team a lot when we agreed on fake-busing you. Consequences of doing nothing early game :/

4. Ryker
Don't think you played bad, but mostly I think you didn't pay much attention to the game D1+D2 (you even had Brosuke clear due to "game mechanics"...), and at the end you only focused 100% on Raz... check other players when tunneling, even if it's just for confirming your discards

5. Dooms
--

J
Replaced into a bad playerslot, and a "victim" of the fake connections we as scum planned

6. GorditoBoy69
No idea why you went down so easily from the very beginning of D2; when I saw D2 begin with Brosuke vs you I had the impression that the decision of the uncap would've been... more discussed

7. KevinM
Too scummy... seriously, I think more than half the players considered you scum since D1

8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01)
--

9. July
--

10. Rajam

11. Circus
You should've deffinitely pushed for your survival D2 when Gorf+KevM were confirmed as Fire Mafia, even if you had to replace out due to activity issues. Lynching KevM was also a death sentence for you, and in the long run people should've realized it wasn't yet the moment to "kill" you

12. Dark_Horse
Too silent for being a "confirmed" town =/

13. Soupamario
I was also trying to setup a fake-connection to you but then you replaced out and Kantrip was super townie later

Kantrip
Great townie imo. You weren't half as bad as people are saying. Having your slot basically cleared last day was one more thing to worry for me while watching the game's outcome. You couldn't do much though with how stubborn Ryker and Raz were being to each other, so it's not your fault



@TOWN as a whole:
No idea why you cleared so quicky Brosuke D2, but mostly, I think a game-changing moment was when Gorf+KevM basically gave up, thus confirming they were scummates, but even so you still decided to lynch KevM and hence "kiliing" Circus; no one even realized the game would move then to a 6-vs-2, only-vanillas situation, which are horrible numbers for town. D2 the best course of action was killing Gorf via uncap, plus No-Lynch. Fire didn't have any motivation for incapping Circus since they were already outted and wanted town to win, and you would've given at least one more valuable opportunity for Comp Cop results. Then you should've proceed to No-Lynch every Day, and just "lynch" via uncaps until Comp Cop had enough results

A quick analysis:
D2: uncap Brosuke, No Lynch => D2 ends with 7 town - 2 Lightning - 1 Fire

D3: begins with the same numbers + 2 people incapped + a comp cop result
D3 ends in worst case scenario with 6 town - 2 Lightning - 1 Fire if you kill via uncap a townie and do a No-Lynch

D4: Begins with 6 town - 2 Lightning - 1 Fire, two people incapped + another comp cop result
D4 ends in worst case scenario with 5 town - 2 Lightning - 1 Fire if you kill via uncap a townie and do a No-Lynch

D5: Begins with 5 town - 2 Lightning - 1 Fire, two people incapped + another comp cop result
By this time the chances of still not detecting Lightining are extremely low, and we're even going with worst case scenario, so...
D5: "worst" case scenario, ends with 4 town - 1 Lightning - 1 Fire if you kill via uncap a townie and lynch Lightning

D6: begins with 4 town - 1 Lightning - 1 Fire + two people incapped + comp cop result
If by this time town still don't detect the other lightning you have incredible bad luck -_-
Lynch lightning, and worst case scenario, you kill a townie via uncap
D6 ends with 3 town - 1 Fire => Town wins

^^ Note that this is the best course of action even if Lightning incaps KevM every single day (town still saves KevM until the end and kill the other via uncap)
EDIT: Also it works too if Lightning and Fire aim at the same townie (which shouldn't be Comp Cop); comp cop will still have a result and you end the Day in a No-Lynch

The problem in DGames as a whole is that in many times number analysis are ignored and the classic mentality of lynching every day + getting reads is more valuable. Sometimes is fine because Mafia isn't a only-numbers game and reads are important, but for example in this game, in this case, numbers almost guaranteed a town victory following the route showed above. I can bet that if I were town in here, and in the same situation I showed this analysis, I would've been super-ignored and you would've still lynched KevM

Just my two cents

 

[Asdioh]

Rajam, can you explain to me what exactly "cleared" Brosuke?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

First off my play and suggestions.

Ryker thought it was due to me being incapped for some reason.

 

[Asdioh]

So you basically played well and people took it as a "clear?"
It happens, I s'pose

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It was basically 100% sealed after I proposed a plan to keep Fire alive during D2, which would basically concede our night kill to them.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Glad people enjoyed this game.

My next small isn't gonna be like this though.

 

[Rajam]

Rajam, can you explain to me what exactly "cleared" Brosuke?

I have no much idea lol, that's why I ask the same to some people. I think it was an effect of him getting the upper hand against Gorf, and ultimately Gorf's claim as scum sealed the deal. This assumes people absolutely forgot two scum could be incapped at the same time though, but it seems that it was what actually happened :x

EDIT: Of course Brosuke's "townie" play helped in this as well