Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[Kantrip]

...How is Ryker scum if he kills DH over me, while thinking I'm confirmed town?

WIFOM. He could have known your thoughts would go like this and attempted to frame Raz through his choice of killing DH. In fact, it seems more likely than Raziek being dumb enough to do so.

Do you believe him thinking I'm a confirmed town is a charade?

Not at all. In fact, even if he's scum this is genuine, obviously.

Do you think he's keeping me around because I can push a Raziek lynch?

Partly this, maybe, but also for the WIFOM factor that I already mentioned.

 

[Raziek]

Obviously I didn't get around to this today.

My apologies. Sometimes hard to have the motivation strike. Will do my best to do so tomorrow, though I've got a date that will be occupying a portion of my evening.

 

[Judo777]

God I want to vote you so badly. You've got Kantrip on your side and you're trying to judo me down by completely ignoring everything that makes sense.

**** you, I'm going to sleep.

What did I do??????? lol

 

[Raziek]

-dead- @ that hard namesearch

 

[Kantrip]

Still waiting for Raziek to make his case.

 

[Raziek]

I know. I promise it will happen. Ideally today.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The 18th the site is down, so we realistically only have 2 days left.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh yeah forgot about that, giving an extra day since that is something outside of everyhones control deadline wise.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Here again. Tired as ****. Probably going to play League or sleep.

Previous question stands.

 

[Raziek]

OK, LET'S DO THIS.

Commence thread digging.

Preface: There will be meta, there will be WIFOM. It's unavoidable. I intend to refrain from dabbling in the most RECENT WIFOM (i.e. the DH NK), and focus more on the early game where a Raz v Ryker situation is not apparent.

And this is quite largely a result of the situation Ryker has created, and I intend to address.

 

[Raziek]

Okay. Here goes:

I'm mafia. Not only am I mafia, but I'm Fire mafia. Why do I reveal this? Cuz shiz I'm getting incapped cuz god knows Xonar isn't, might as well take somebody down from the other maf while I can. I am MUCH more in favor of town winning than the other mafia, and that's because I feel that if THEY win and I lose, then wtf man... Now, I revealed myself as Fire for another reason on top of that... Kuz is CONFIRM'D TOWN after this post. You ready? Fire mafia targeted Hipster N0, and Ice mafia targeted Kuz N0. So unless you want to believe that Kuz is my scummate, which none of you do because it's not true, he is CONFIRM'D TOWN. Anyway, back to the case against Ryker. Kuz' case against Ryker absolutely holds merit, in that Ryker did what he needed to do in order to gain town points, and disappeared afterward. IT IS NOT A TOWN TELL THAT HE SCUM HUNTED AND PINNED SCUM. He caught me in the scum tell of hating on his scum hunting, he is absolutely correct, and after the game ends you can see where I s*** bricks when he said that. But after he (correctly) scumhunted, he faded into the coasting game, before AND after his V/LA. The fact of the matter is, he's done NOTHING this game except drill on me and Kuz. His suspicion of KevM is totally empty, and probably because it's an easy person to place suspicion on, with him being a popular scum candidate. And his lolread on Circus, the inactive? SHIZ, what the eff is that? His post have been nothing but tunneling me and Kuz, while using that to get by throughout all of the game. If you let him live through toDay, don't. LYNCH HIM. As far as his scummate goes, I wouldn't be surprised if it were any of Circus, Raziek or even maybe even Xonar (but that's probz a reach), and I will make sure I use all of the time I have toDay to work with some of my town reads in order to get this through. BUT WE'RE LYNCHING RYKER.

Yea. Get mindf***ed.

Starting here in the interest of saving time. Suffice it to say, I agree with what Gorf has said here. More on this later.

Yeah, but on the subject,

J, do you think Rajam is capable of faking his constant "catch-up" status?

Innocuous question at the time, but in the context of the situation, I just found this interesting to point out.

I don't want to be cleared. : /

Same deal here.

Swiss, be my guiding light.

Looks like you've got a bad case of Lightning Ryker.

Lemme pull up his scummate. Only up to #155 though so gimme time.

Huh.

I'll believe that but allow me to read.

Gorf/Kev - Fire.

Ryker/??? - Lightning.

Brosuke Town
July Town
Raj meh



Was this very early on?

Raj scum

What were Circus' results again? I must keep forgetting.

DH town

Is Joey Dooms?

Slipped July's early game - Kuz didn't like - null her.


BRB power nap

Between these two posts Swiss had it. Ryker/??? as lightning, then Raj as scum, causing Ryker/Rajam.

Also, really greasy vote on ryker by raj. The attack is at some times nonsensical (the whole TvS j and ryker thing), and some things are plainly reaching (town point points). I can seem him as being scumbudds with ryker.

DH WAS RIGHT.

Sold on Rajamscum. Computer is deadish. J looks far worse than ryker to me through all this.

I'm pointing this particular post out because I was one of the first to express suspicion on Rajscum, and this was during the RykervJ conflict. From a scum perspective, what reason would I have to draw attention to my scummate when we entered the day in the context of JvRyker?

Ooooooooooooooor my case could remain that you have no case.

You're backing out of it after promising it for days. I've even asked for the cliff notes in just a list of reasons and you couldn't even provide that. I maintain that you have no case Past a smear campaign. Otherwise, you would've posted it by now.

Lynch him.

Pointing this out because this is essentially the essence of how EVERYTHING Ryker has done this game has gone, with the exception of Gorf. He's playing passive, coasting, defensive.

Yeah, it's meta, but EVERY game I've ever been in with Ryker, he's been aggressive as Town for the entirety of the time he's alive. (Except MMX I suppose, but that Hydra was hella lazy) Look at Ragnarok or most of the scum games he's played. Scum Ryker sits on his heels and relies on his "invulnerability" to lynching.

J, make a bet with me. If I flip town, I get to pick your custom title for a month. If I flip scum, you get my title and avatar for a month. I will also change my sig to "J's Baby Girl" until I get an artist who will put it with an appropriate signature image. It will stay that way until March.

Pointing this out for J for post-game.

Well what do I get when I flip town?

Also I don't have a custom title because I haven't been a premium member in a long while. ^^"

Man if this is you and me going against each other in a TvT debate. I'm going to cry so much. T.T

But you have to be scum....you just have to.....

Rajam/Raz hold one scum in between them. Kanty/Soupa are not scum. Xonar, if he is scum, deserves to win IMO. Swiss is clear. I'm town. You must be scum.

*I have a list of qualms that'll be posted shortly*

While outdated, I want to draw attention to the sentiments within the end of this.

**** dammit J, but Rajam/Raz can be a scum team and I die if you aren't scum (and vice versa I guess).

Vote Raz

His 180 from me to you is worse than Rajam. I was afraid of his flip with his awkward connection to me.

****, ****, ****, shiiiiiiiiiiit. There goes my shot at lynching you today even if I change my mind. AT LEAST one scum lies in Raz/Rajam. Then J. Haven't done the math. If we lose there, coasting Soup wins his second F&L.

This is the worst part. Ryker's jump from J to me was extremely opportunistic. Consider the motivation behind it for Rykerscum. In the battle of JvRyker the outcome looked uncertain. Ryker knew my computer was broken. He knew I wouldn't be able to substantially defend myself.

In this situation, though, Rajam would have been a far easier out than me if Ryker was Town and seeking survival. Brosuke and I had both already expressed suspicion on him, and there was a good chance J would follow. A Rajam lynch would have been an easy out, but he didn't want to sacrifice his scummy if he could have me instead.

I would have to read the game again before considering Kantrip. Replace my name with J and you have my picks. The problem is just how ****ing cookie cutter the possible teams are. With so much dumb and null, hitting one scum doesn't clear anyone unless J is scum and I get cleared, but if he flips town, suddenly all the heat in the world is on me and the Raj/Raz team never stops being plausible. Throwing Kantrip into the mix means that we run out of lynches before we have a clear win.

Setting me up at this point.

Yeah sorry about that. I was far more busy than I intended.

Read the last 4 pages, Unvote Vote Raj

Pretty much agree with Xonar. Err'ing on my Ryker read, placing Raz as town.

Rajscum over Raz.

Ryker scum over J. Early game Ryker very scummy more townie now, but he could be tailoring his posts for me.

DH town, sure I called whoever replaced July town.

THANK YOU SWISS.

If Soup isn't Town I'll eat my hat. I want to hear input from kantrip on all this, though.

I need to stop doubting myself on this. Kantrip needs to stop making every slot he plays look scummy.

Ryker v. Raz is infinitely better. I maintain that Raz is more likely to flip scum though.

End of **** I quoted

Ok, all that's really left that I want to talk about briefly is the incapping pre-DH's death.

Day 1
Fire - HipSam
Lightning - Kuz

Day 2
Fire - Brosuke
Lightning - Gorf
<Swiss replaces in>

Day 3
Circus NK'd.

Day 4
Swiss NK'd.

Day 5
DH NK'd.

Consider the motivation for the NKs under both scenarios.

As Lightning, why would I incap Kuz? Yes, you could argue salt from Majora's Mask, but Kuz is also an extremely frequent opponent of Ryker. End result, this one doesn't really lean either way. Though, if I was afraid of Ryker so much, why wouldn't I incap him on Night 0?

Night 1 is plainly obvious as a Ryker choice. He pinned Gorf as scum on Day 1, so he incapped him that night when nobody was really leaning his way. Put up against the Brosuke incap by Fire it was an extremely easy kill. If someone can give motive for me to incap Gorf over everyone else, I'd like to hear it.

Night 2 was Circus. Completely Null.

Night 3 - Swiss. Given that Swiss came into the game completely suspecting Ryker/Raj, why would I ever choose to kill him? Yes, Rajam being suspected would be a problem, but Swiss had me as Town. I could easily have killed Brosuke at this point. Killing Swiss from my perspective doesn't make sense.

Ryker hydras with Swiss all the time. They know each other extremely well. Swiss is therefore an extremely strong threat to Ryker.

Night 4 - DH. Not touching this one.

Looking at all this, and knowing how I interact with Ryker, why would I spend so much time dancing around him instead of just killing him and getting him out of the way? Why would I willingly put myself in a MyLo situation I didn't think I could win?

<Meta Interlude>

I'm going to talk about my own play for a moment.

I enjoy this game most when I draw scum or a PR. VT is the bane of my entertainment. I didn't play the game for the first day and a half, essentially. What does that tell you?

Look at Majora's Mask, which was the last time I drew scum. I was super involved from D1 all the way through. I didn't coast, I manipulated from the sidelines. My play this game is my Town meta, not my scum meta. We already know I'm not a Town PR because of the open setup. I drew VT, and didn't get interested until Brosuke pulled me into it.

Finally, let's look at today.

I went into today looking at a no lynch as an alternative. Given that I have to cause I mislynch REGARDLESS, why would I choose such a course of action? It doesn't benefit me as scum. I believe this should read as short-sighted Town, but that's obviously a biased perspective.

Look at Ryker's play today. He's done as he's done all game. Sitting on his laurels, waiting for me to take his bait and get pissed and lose my head. He's done nothing but bludgeon me with "you're scum, you're scum".

This isn't Town Ryker. This is Scum Ryker.

Vote: Ryker.

 

[Raziek]

In the TL;DR, what I want to emphasize most is the position and reads of Swiss in all this, taken in context with his NK.

Gorf said Rykerscum. Swiss said Rykerscum. J said Rykerscum.

Ryker is scum.

 

[Raziek]

Also, I'm really sad that everyone thinks I'm bad enough at scum to kill DH.

If I actually DREW scum once in a while I could prove I'm not. T-T

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm tired atm. I'll have to look into this tomorrow. From skimming Raz's posts I do get a town vibe, but I don't know how it measures up against Ryker's town vibes. I'll give this more time tomorrow.

Kantrip, you've told me you're gonna go in in Ryker. Get on it.

Ryker, what previous question still stands?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Wow, it was about two pages ago that I asked what you needed.

But anyway, I've got to deal with the scum now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

In the TL;DR, what I want to emphasize most is the position and reads of Swiss in all this, taken in context with his NK.

Gorf said Rykerscum. Swiss said Rykerscum. J said Rykerscum.

Ryker is scum.

THIS is your tl;dr?

Gorf WAS SCUM. Scum that I was onto and scum whom I had his scummate nailed. He needed me gone to have a shot at victory. He was dead in the water, so he took the shot.

Swiss said I was scum, but Swiss was not caught up on the game and I would have a chance to convince him otherwise. Brosuke, on the otherhand, wanted to NOT lynch you and instead look into me and J. Obvious night kill, eh?

J played this game absolutely horrendously and ended the phase flipping back and forth terribly. I can find quotes for where he has said that you were scum as well

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, I'm really sad that everyone thinks I'm bad enough at scum to kill DH.

If I actually DREW scum once in a while I could prove I'm not. T-T

This is town Raz? Bull****. This is a wimp spewing AtE out his ***.

Town Raz stands up under pressure. When I came in swinging at him in MMX mafia (I think it was that one), he thought I was scum, and he ****ing dealt with it like a man. When the same thing happened in Gurren Lagann, he ****ing dealt with it. He stood his ground until my opinion changed through his actions.

Here he's saying, "Please don't hurt me," and "It wasn't me!"

Get this bull**** out of here.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

OK, LET'S DO THIS.

Commence thread digging.

Preface: There will be meta, there will be WIFOM. It's unavoidable. I intend to refrain from dabbling in the most RECENT WIFOM (i.e. the DH NK), and focus more on the early game where a Raz v Ryker situation is not apparent.

And this is quite largely a result of the situation Ryker has created, and I intend to address.

......?

So, you plan to take a swim through some WIFOM and you intend to leave out the WIFOM that would incriminate you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Pointing this out because this is essentially the essence of how EVERYTHING Ryker has done this game has gone, with the exception of Gorf. He's playing passive, coasting, defensive.

Yeah, it's meta, but EVERY game I've ever been in with Ryker, he's been aggressive as Town for the entirety of the time he's alive. (Except MMX I suppose, but that Hydra was hella lazy) Look at Ragnarok or most of the scum games he's played. Scum Ryker sits on his heels and relies on his "invulnerability" to lynching.

Oh, HELL no.

This is false meta and you know it. I've been passive as town before as well. It's about timing and how much I have to do and how lazy I am. Look at Lost mafia that just ended. I was INCREDIBLY active in that game AS SCUM here at the same time as this one. Look at Pulp Fiction where I lurked the hell out of the game as town. Look at ANY GAME THAT I HAVE TO CATCH UP FROM A V/LA. I don't. I'm lazy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This is the worst part. Ryker's jump from J to me was extremely opportunistic. Consider the motivation behind it for Rykerscum. In the battle of JvRyker the outcome looked uncertain. Ryker knew my computer was broken. He knew I wouldn't be able to substantially defend myself.

In this situation, though, Rajam would have been a far easier out than me if Ryker was Town and seeking survival. Brosuke and I had both already expressed suspicion on him, and there was a good chance J would follow. A Rajam lynch would have been an easy out, but he didn't want to sacrifice his scummy if he could have me instead.

Proof of motive. I only learned your computer was broken just a couple days before it was fixed when I asked you to play League. I had heard from you it was overheating or whatever, but not that it was out of commission. Besides that, you're trying to pin me for nailing you because your computer was busted which is weak sauce. Everything in the post you quoted stands up. I DID think you were more likely to flip scum and there has been nothing in this game (READ NOTHING) that leads me to believe that you won't.

 

[Kantrip]

Good Raz finally got that case up.

But **** it is the worst foundation for a discussion I have ever seen. I don't care that he warned us. I can't believe his strongest points consisted of "Other dead players thought this", and "Metametametametameta selfmetaselfmetaselfmetaselfmeta".

However, since I said I would be on Ryker (and Raz not holding up a good argument makes me want to do it even more), I will try to make a case of my own.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Consider the motivation for the NKs under both scenarios.

As Lightning, why would I incap Kuz? Yes, you could argue salt from Majora's Mask, but Kuz is also an extremely frequent opponent of Ryker. End result, this one doesn't really lean either way. Though, if I was afraid of Ryker so much, why wouldn't I incap him on Night 0?

Night 1 is plainly obvious as a Ryker choice. He pinned Gorf as scum on Day 1, so he incapped him that night when nobody was really leaning his way. Put up against the Brosuke incap by Fire it was an extremely easy kill. If someone can give motive for me to incap Gorf over everyone else, I'd like to hear it.

Night 2 was Circus. Completely Null.

Night 3 - Swiss. Given that Swiss came into the game completely suspecting Ryker/Raj, why would I ever choose to kill him? Yes, Rajam being suspected would be a problem, but Swiss had me as Town. I could easily have killed Brosuke at this point. Killing Swiss from my perspective doesn't make sense.

Ryker hydras with Swiss all the time. They know each other extremely well. Swiss is therefore an extremely strong threat to Ryker.

Night 4 - DH. Not touching this one.

Looking at all this, and knowing how I interact with Ryker, why would I spend so much time dancing around him instead of just killing him and getting him out of the way? Why would I willingly put myself in a MyLo situation I didn't think I could win?

Oh boy! WIFOM! I love WIFOM!

ANYONE I THIS GAME could've incapped Kuz. ANYONE! The fact that he was incapped is a LOT more null than the Circus incap.

Night 2 isn't nearly as null because I can't think of a SINGLE game where I've shot someone who was no threat to anything. Hell, I didn't even know Circus was in this game.

Night 3 you could shoot Gorf because he was active. You could shoot Gorf because I said he was scum. Most likely you shot him because, after Xonar who wasn't leaning toward you at all, he was the most active player in the game.

Night 3 is Swiss. You killed him, as I outlined earlier, because leaving me and J alive with him, Kantrip, and DH would result in you being lynched before either of us.

Night 4 you ignore because I would have ZERO reason to kill Dork Horse.

You dance around me the entire time BECAUSE I'VE BEEN UP FOR LYNCH THE ENTIRE ****ING TIME AND KILLING ME WOULD LEAVE SOMEONE THAT IS HIGHER ON THE TOWN LIST THAN YOU LIVE!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

<Meta Interlude>

I'm going to talk about my own play for a moment.

I enjoy this game most when I draw scum or a PR. VT is the bane of my entertainment. I didn't play the game for the first day and a half, essentially. What does that tell you?

Look at Majora's Mask, which was the last time I drew scum. I was super involved from D1 all the way through. I didn't coast, I manipulated from the sidelines. My play this game is my Town meta, not my scum meta. We already know I'm not a Town PR because of the open setup. I drew VT, and didn't get interested until Brosuke pulled me into it.

Finally, let's look at today.

I went into today looking at a no lynch as an alternative. Given that I have to cause I mislynch REGARDLESS, why would I choose such a course of action? It doesn't benefit me as scum. I believe this should read as short-sighted Town, but that's obviously a biased perspective.

Look at Ryker's play today. He's done as he's done all game. Sitting on his laurels, waiting for me to take his bait and get pissed and lose my head. He's done nothing but bludgeon me with "you're scum, you're scum".

This isn't Town Ryker. This is Scum Ryker.

Vote: Ryker.

False self-meta.

You do enjoy PRs more, but you ****ing coasted the entire time because you had no computer and, same as me, were playing ****ing LoL throughout the beginning before it was broken.

BECAUSE A MISLYNCH ALLOWS YOU TO SET UP YOUR ****ING BEST SHOT AT A LYLO! IT'S EXACTLY WHAT SCUM WANTS TO DO! WE'VE BEEN ****ING OVER THIS!!!

You haven't given me a sword, you've given me blunt inactivity and I will beat you over the head with it. Now you've given me words that work just fine to BEAT YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH. Don't give me this bull****.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So your entire case REALLY is incorrect meta, reaching meta not accounting for the situation, and "he said, she said" quotes that may or may not be outdated.

 

[Kantrip]

Ryker have your scum pushes consisted of tearing apart people's cases against you all game, or is that just with kuz J and Raz?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Definitely nailed Gorf and Kevin on something different. Rajam and Raz are based hevaily in how they played while I was arguing with J. Go back and look at Raz's voting pattern on the matter. It's ****ing disgusting.

However, yes, making a terrible case on a townie is a scum tell.

 

[Raziek]

THIS is your tl;dr?

Gorf WAS SCUM. Scum that I was onto and scum whom I had his scummate nailed. He needed me gone to have a shot at victory. He was dead in the water, so he took the shot.

What's your point? He went to the grave with KevinM outed as his partner still screaming that you were scum. He's got no reason to lie at this point.

And why are you conveniently ignoring the fact that the only one who was onto him was you, and he got incapped? That's the most damning thing about your interaction with Fire, is Incapping Gorf. Given the number of otherwise threatening players in the game and Gorf's status from your read, it doesn't make sense for anyone else to incap him.

Swiss said I was scum, but Swiss was not caught up on the game and I would have a chance to convince him otherwise. Brosuke, on the otherhand, wanted to NOT lynch you and instead look into me and J. Obvious night kill, eh?

Whoah no. You're not dismissing this that easily. Swiss had you pinned within PAGES of entering the game, including your scummate.

He even OUTRIGHT SAID that you were probably tailoring your posts to him, and you never left his sight as a scum read. He died placing ME as Town, and YOU as scum.

J played this game absolutely horrendously and ended the phase flipping back and forth terribly. I can find quotes for where he has said that you were scum as well

Regardless of J's play I've yet to see any real backup for why RykervJ wasn't SvT.

Make a case for it being TvT.

 

[Raziek]

This is town Raz? Bull****. This is a wimp spewing AtE out his ***.

Town Raz stands up under pressure. When I came in swinging at him in MMX mafia (I think it was that one), he thought I was scum, and he ****ing dealt with it like a man. When the same thing happened in Gurren Lagann, he ****ing dealt with it. He stood his ground until my opinion changed through his actions.

Here he's saying, "Please don't hurt me," and "It wasn't me!"

Get this bull**** out of here.

Sure, cherrypick a post that wasn't really meant to be part of my argument, and misconstrue it as me going against my Town meta.

 

[Raziek]

......?

So, you plan to take a swim through some WIFOM and you intend to leave out the WIFOM that would incriminate you.

There's no reason to address something SO close to the current conflict that we can't draw anything meaningful from it.

The DH NK occurs when RykervRaz is entirely apparent.

This is not the case for the other NKs, so they are LESS affected by the WIFOM of the current situation.

 

[Raziek]

Proof of motive. I only learned your computer was broken just a couple days before it was fixed when I asked you to play League. I had heard from you it was overheating or whatever, but not that it was out of commission. Besides that, you're trying to pin me for nailing you because your computer was busted which is weak sauce. Everything in the post you quoted stands up. I DID think you were more likely to flip scum and there has been nothing in this game (READ NOTHING) that leads me to believe that you won't.

Regardless of the motive, the JUMP is what was scummy, not why you did it!

Everyone went into that day with RykervJ in mind, then when things started to look bad you jump on me! Not Rajam, whom would have made sense if you were TOWN trying to focus on your own survival, but as an escape route as SCUM without sacrificing your partner.

You continue to ignore the fact that I actively voiced Rajam suspicion during the RykervJ conflict, when there was essentially no pressure on him. What motive do I have to do so as his partner?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kantrip, you admit Raziek's case was bad. I agree, but I did get some town vibes from it. Then there's the fact that Ryker's defense looks solid to me, which makes me further doubt Rykerscum.

If you really think Ryker is still more of a possibility than Raziek, get your case done quickly. I'm still going with Raziek atm.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Holy **** ninja'd by four posts.

 

[Raziek]

Oh boy! WIFOM! I love WIFOM!

ANYONE I THIS GAME could've incapped Kuz. ANYONE! The fact that he was incapped is a LOT more null than the Circus incap.

Disagree. There's no reason not to shoot the un-CC'd Comparison Cop. None. Zero. Zip.

Night 2 isn't nearly as null because I can't think of a SINGLE game where I've shot someone who was no threat to anything. Hell, I didn't even know Circus was in this game.

That's bull**** and you know it. You posted IMMEDIATELY after he claimed.

Night 3 you could shoot Gorf because he was active. You could shoot Gorf because I said he was scum. Most likely you shot him because, after Xonar who wasn't leaning toward you at all, he was the most active player in the game.

I have no motive to shoot Gorf over a more threatening player. You shoot Gorf because you had him pinned as scum, but couldn't lynch him.

Night 3 is Swiss. You killed him, as I outlined earlier, because leaving me and J alive with him, Kantrip, and DH would result in you being lynched before either of us.

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest this when all of his suspicions lied around solely you and Rajam. HE. HAD. YOU. PINNED.

Night 4 you ignore because I would have ZERO reason to kill Dork Horse.

Framing me isn't a reason? Goddamn, imagine that.

You dance around me the entire time BECAUSE I'VE BEEN UP FOR LYNCH THE ENTIRE ****ING TIME AND KILLING ME WOULD LEAVE SOMEONE THAT IS HIGHER ON THE TOWN LIST THAN YOU LIVE!

This is the only one I'll give you.

But if we accept that reasoning, I would have been gunning for your lynch for the entire game, no? Was it not you who brought up that I frequently flip-flopped on RykervJ?

Townies flip-flop because they lack information. Scum knows who's Town and who isn't. If I was scum I'd be sure you were Town and I'd have drilled you until you got lynched, then gone "Herpderp guess he was Town, let's lynch J now."

 

[Raziek]

False self-meta.

You do enjoy PRs more, but you ****ing coasted the entire time because you had no computer and, same as me, were playing ****ing LoL throughout the beginning before it was broken.

You haven't given me a sword, you've given me blunt inactivity and I will beat you over the head with it. Now you've given me words that work just fine to BEAT YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH. Don't give me this bull****.

I had my computer until the 26th, lost it for only part of Day 3. That's a small window of time in which I did not have it. My consistency with my VT meta stands.

 

[Raziek]

However, yes, making a terrible case on a townie is a scum tell.

While generally true, I'm given no choice in this situation.

Excluding all the meta, you have nothing redeeming you in terms of Townie actions.

You caught Gorf during Day 1 THEN INCAPPED HIM.

KevinM got screwed by the CC, not you.

All you did during vs. J was sit on your *** and bully him into making a case, which at the time was hard because you haven't ****ing done anything. And yeah, J could have played better, and that's why he got lynched over you.

I'm forced to attack you at this point because I have no other alternative and I'm going to do my best not to lose this for Town.

 

[Raziek]

As much as I hate to have to say it again, I'm lacking legs to stand on.

****ing LISTEN TO SWISS. The man hydras with Ryker CONSTANTLY.

He KNOWS HOW RYKER WORKS.

Ryker is scum.

/done posting

Go ahead, Zonie.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

................................

SWISS WASN'T EVEN INVOLVED IN THE GAME! HE NEVER GOT HIS FEET UNDER HIM AND WAS PIGGY BACKING READS UNTIL HE COULD CATCH UP!

He was playing off of part of the first Day phase and you can even see his opinion starting to turn based on more current play.

 

[Raziek]

................................

SWISS WASN'T EVEN INVOLVED IN THE GAME! HE NEVER GOT HIS FEET UNDER HIM AND WAS PIGGY BACKING READS UNTIL HE COULD CATCH UP!

He was playing off of part of the first Day phase and you can even see his opinion starting to turn based on more current play.

No, no he wasn't.

QUOTE ANYTHING THAT SUGGESTS THIS.

He outright recognized that you were probably tailoring your posts to him.

 

[Raziek]

Looks like you've got a bad case of Lightning Ryker.

Lemme pull up his scummate. Only up to #155 though so gimme time.

Huh.

I'll believe that but allow me to read.

Gorf/Kev - Fire.

Ryker/??? - Lightning.

Only thing that worries me is that Gord also has a scumread on Ryker. I mean, Gord is terrible.

Cereal and LoL. Then more reading. Wanna watch Ryker rage.

Easiest double lynch ever.

League game, then gonna trip whip up a re-read / finish my first read

Brosuke Town
July Town
Raj meh

Was this very early on?

Raj scum

What were Circus' results again? I must keep forgetting.

DH town

Is Joey Dooms?

Slipped July's early game - Kuz didn't like - null her.


BRB power nap

Rajscum over Raz.

Ryker scum over J. Early game Ryker very scummy more townie now, but he could be tailoring his posts for me.

DH town, sure I called whoever replaced July town.

These are all the posts relevant to Swiss's reads.

He CONSISTENTLY had you scum from the beginning of the game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What's your point? He went to the grave with KevinM outed as his partner still screaming that you were scum. He's got no reason to lie at this point.

And why are you conveniently ignoring the fact that the only one who was onto him was you, and he got incapped? That's the most damning thing about your interaction with Fire, is Incapping Gorf. Given the number of otherwise threatening players in the game and Gorf's status from your read, it doesn't make sense for anyone else to incap him.

Oh my ****ing god. This is PURE WIFOM! This is exactly what Adum threw the game on in MMX calling me scum for a move that scum Circus made.

Whoah no. You're not dismissing this that easily. Swiss had you pinned within PAGES of entering the game, including your scummate.

He even OUTRIGHT SAID that you were probably tailoring your posts to him, and you never left his sight as a scum read. He died placing ME as Town, and YOU as scum.

Yes I am. Read Swiss's posts and tell me that was an informed and updated opinion.

The post your referencing said I COULD be tailoring my posts to him, but regardless, it still shows the read starting to turn.

Regardless of J's play I've yet to see any real backup for why RykervJ wasn't SvT.

Make a case for it being TvT.

Two townies thought each other were scum. It really is that simple.

The thing is, everyone MISLABELS it as SvT when two players go at it each other. YOU are the one who has to make a SvT case. What in our behavior eliminates the possibility of both of us being town? YOU are the one with the burden of proof.