Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh, and look, you ignored the rest of the post from where you quoted, which is you know, the IMPORTANT PART.

YOU KNOW, THAT PART WHERE I MADE MY REBUTTAL TO A POINT YOU JUST MADE.

Patience. I was getting there.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

****. You.

****you. I'm not doing it.

I'm not giving you a concise version because the whole picture of our argument is all that's needed.

Do you admit to padding it with WIFOM and self-meta?

 

[Raziek]

No, you're taking that out of context now. I made it very clear several times afterwards that your motive for jumping was IN FACT scummy, something you have yet to rebut.

See: Why me over Rajam, why the timing, why not the more likely to be lynched person if simply seeking survival?

Yes, I admit I padded the initial case with WIFOM that didn't have to be there. I didn't HAVE to include speculation on all the night kills, only the important ones.

You're no better than I claiming your responses to those points to be damning against me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yeah, because it's unreasonable to remind the two people who decide this game that we have two days till deadline and the SITE IS DOWN TOMORROW.

Read, we've got an extension for one day. I have no issue with getting them to read. I have an issue with the AtE it's done with.

You started the flooding. I made one succinct post to begin with, which you proceeded to respond to in chunks, which I in turn responded to in chunks. You're not blaming me for this, and you're guilty of EXACTLY THE SAME in the WIFOM arguments.

Yeah? I stopped. You're refusing to help me condense it.

Oh? Sitting on your *** and riding out JvRyker was trying to discern who was scum? Lurking all of Day 2 was discerning who was scum? Completely ignoring Rajam was discerning who was scum?

There's a reason I put a time frame on it. I didn't even get caught up and reentered into the game until late.

I NEVER completely ignored Rajam. I pointed out MULTIPLE TIMES that we had a sea of null while I was arguing with J.

I never sat on my *** with J either. I was moving forward the entire time trying to discern who was scum. You're the one who was sitting with their thumb up their ***.

I challenge you to show me where I'm looking for mislynches.

Where you flipped votes between me and J for NO SUPPLIED REASON and where you lurked through this entire game without even trying to be a part of the decision making process.

And then you disappeared! Which is why everyone was on your case!

Yeah? And? I never said I didn't. I simply pointed to where your point was incorrect.

AND YOU SHIFTED THE ARGUMENT TOWARD AN UNRELATED POINT!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No, you're taking that out of context now. I made it very clear several times afterwards that your motive for jumping was IN FACT scummy, something you have yet to rebut.

See: Why me over Rajam, why the timing, why not the more likely to be lynched person if simply seeking survival?

Yes I have responded to that. In fact, I've explained my thought processes on that multiple times. I thought that Rajam/Raz was more likely than J because he was still looking. Because he was committed to a bad case and that was his damning feature.

Why you over Rajam? I expected better of you and figured Rajam was more likely to just be that bad.

Why the timing? BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN J SHOWED SIGNS OF NOT BEING IN IT FOR A MISLYNCH!

 

[Raziek]

Yes I have responded to that. In fact, I've explained my thought processes on that multiple times. I thought that Rajam/Raz was more likely than J because he was still looking. Because he was committed to a bad case and that was his damning feature.

Why you over Rajam? I expected better of you and figured Rajam was more likely to just be that bad.

Why the timing? BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN J SHOWED SIGNS OF NOT BEING IN IT FOR A MISLYNCH!

Fine, I'll accept your motive for switching off of J.

I don't believe your reasoning for me over Rajam. That has to be the weakest I've ever seen.

People had already suspected Rajam. Why would you not select the one of the two you believed easiest to lynch?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes, I admit I padded the initial case with WIFOM that didn't have to be there. I didn't HAVE to include speculation on all the night kills, only the important ones.

Guess what, it's still there. Oh and by the way, I also found myself a

CONTRADICTION:

****. You.

****you. I'm not doing it.

I'm not giving you a concise version because the whole picture of our argument is all that's needed.

You ADMIT that there is useless parts that don't need to be there. However, you refuse to summarize because you would then have to remove them or be called out for not doing so. You KNOW that your case is too weak to stand on it's own and that's why you refuse to do so.

 

[Raziek]

I NEVER completely ignored Rajam. I pointed out MULTIPLE TIMES that we had a sea of null while I was arguing with J.

That is effectively ignoring him.

I never sat on my *** with J either. I was moving forward the entire time trying to discern who was scum. You're the one who was sitting with their thumb up their ***.

Show me where you were moving forward. And if you're going to accuse me of sitting on my *** during that, are you also going to accuse Soup, Rajam, and Swiss?

Where you flipped votes between me and J for NO SUPPLIED REASON and where you lurked through this entire game without even trying to be a part of the decision making process.

Motive? I've said time and time again that the switch was null and you even ADMITTED that a scummy could just as easily fake Townie indecisiveness.

I didn't start playing this game until Brosuke prompted me to during Day 2. After that point, I became involved, despite the fact that I was essentially a spectator as a result of youvJ. I can't exactly dive into that without making it rather one-sided.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Fine, I'll accept your motive for switching off of J.

I don't believe your reasoning for me over Rajam. That has to be the weakest I've ever seen.

People had already suspected Rajam. Why would you not select the one of the two you believed easiest to lynch?

Really? IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE STRONG! YOU WERE BOTH SCARCELY ANY BETTER THAN COMPLETE NULL TELLS!

Why the hell would I ever select the one I thought was easiest to lynch? I would want to get rid of the scarier one and save the one that would be easier to lynch? All of this is beside the point because YOUR VOTING PATTERNS DURING MY ARGUMENT WITH J are what pushed you over Rajam in my lynch order.

 

[Raziek]

You ADMIT that there is useless parts that don't need to be there. However, you refuse to summarize because you would then have to remove them or be called out for not doing so. You KNOW that your case is too weak to stand on it's own and that's why you refuse to do so.

This is straight false.

I'm choosing not to summarize and remove everything because there will be important things that get lost in the mix.

I'm not doing it just because YOU tell me to, and supplying your own BS reason doesn't undermine it.

 

[Raziek]

Really? IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE STRONG! YOU WERE BOTH SCARCELY ANY BETTER THAN COMPLETE NULL TELLS!

Why the hell would I ever select the one I thought was easiest to lynch? I would want to get rid of the scarier one and save the one that would be easier to lynch? All of this is beside the point because YOUR VOTING PATTERNS DURING MY ARGUMENT WITH J are what pushed you over Rajam in my lynch order.

Then why did you proceed to let the J lynch happen the following day after Rajam died, huh? That makes a LOT of sense given that you suspected Rajam and I then left me alive, right?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Then why did you proceed to let the J lynch happen the following day after Rajam died, huh? That makes a LOT of sense given that you suspected Rajam and I then left me alive, right?

Because the order doesn't matter as I pointed out earlier. Regardless of alignment; you, J, and myself all knew that outliving the other two meant victory. You needed us both to be mislynched and we both knew that lynching the other two ensured that the final scum died. Xonar wanted to lynch J and I felt that he was more likely to be able to survive a LyLo with me than you.

You're chasing in circles back to things we've already covered.

Summarize your material. I'm not flooding the thread further.

 

[Raziek]

You're right, we're running in circles, so I'm going to cease the back and forth.

However, I'm not summarizing. That, I will not budge for you on.

If Xonar wants it AFTER he's read everything, I will do it. I am not providing a shortcut past everything we've said.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If Xonar wants it AFTER he's read everything, I will do it. I am not providing a shortcut past everything we've said.

Fine by me.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, you admit Raziek's case was bad. I agree, but I did get some town vibes from it. Then there's the fact that Ryker's defense looks solid to me, which makes me further doubt Rykerscum.

If you really think Ryker is still more of a possibility than Raziek, get your case done quickly. I'm still going with Raziek atm.

There's a lot of back-and-forth that is spawned now that I still have to read through, but I'll say Raziek looks really exasperated so far yet he is still saying things that are valid to me.

First off, Ryker vs J was happening.
Ryker decides that he wants to survive. This is null, Ryker does it no matter what alignment he is.
He picks to jump on Raziek next, rather than Rajam who is scum. This would be saving himself without sacrificing his scummate.

What I read of Ryker's early play was gross. I didn't like the repeated "I can't believe I wasn't incapped" and "fully expected to be incapped". It was garbage, it took up space in his posts, and it was useless.

Ryker has been playing the opportunism game: When he was up against J, he waited for J to make a case while he had his case as "J HAS YET TO MAKE A CASE". The same thing happened and J knew that Ryker would just make J scum through any case he made. This is happening with Raziek: Ryker did nothing up until Raziek pushed out a bad case, and now Ryker starts the argument with that as his foundation. This makes the argument very skewed in Ryker's favour because Raziek has no firm ground to stand on. Ryker's opportunism is what set this up, and I really do think it is scummy.

Disregard the fact that Ryker found Gorf/KevinM for us (which he did and saying he did was a scumslip, as Gorf's dying was thanks to being incapped). Finding the opposing scum faction is something Ryker would WANT to do as town OR lightning, so it is null. It lies in the fact that he DIDN'T find Rajam that makes him scum.

 

[Kantrip]

I'd forgotten he was the Comp Cop. My bad.

Forgetting basic parts of the game that he should know. His mind is elsewhere, not in the townie frame of mind.

No he didn't. This is the core of your case.

THIS IS THE CORE OF HIS CASE!

And it doesn't hold up. I've outlined why over and over and over again.

He doesn't really say anything here but trying to discredit Raziek's case by picking a point, calling it the core, and then saying "I already brought up why this doesn't hold up".

 

[Kantrip]

AND HERE HE ADMITS TO BEING SCUM TRYING TO PUSH A MISLYNCH!


He has no case. Take him away.

Ryker's case remains that he has no case.

And nothing damning either.

All I can see that you're damning Raziek with is that his case against you is bad. Bleck.

 

[Kantrip]

Xonar, Kantrip, I swear to god if you ****ers skim all this I'm going to rip your throats out in post game.

I'm going to rip out yours for spawning this crap, but yeah I'm reading it

 

[Kantrip]

Okay Brosuke. Here is what we are going to do.

If you disagree with this say why.

We are going to both be set where we're set: You want to see Raziek dead and I want to see Ryker dead.

Using this, we will NL. When ToMorrow comes, we will vote accordingly based on which one of us died in the Night. If I die you immediately lynch your scumpick, and if you die I will immediately lynch mine. I think you know what I'm getting at, yes? A WIFOM buffer on top of whatever conclusion we come to toDay.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Kantrip, I'll get to you as soon as I can what with the blackout tomorrow. I just finished playing LoL and I'm about to collapse.

 

[Kantrip]

You know what we are?

Running out of time.

 

[Raziek]

Kantrip, as much as I've had to rely on it, we don't need to introduce more Wifom by letting this go another night.

You and Brosuke need to make a decision while it's still the two of you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You know what we are?

Running out of time.

Do we have a deadline extension?

Also, my mom hit a deer last weekend. I'm taking her car to my Grandad's auto salvage and swapping it for something else we can drive until it gets fixed. That's 4 hours on the road and I dunno if I'm gonna spend some time in town up there or not.

I'll play when I'm back.

 

[Raziek]

Request deadline extension

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Request Deadline Extension

Aight, I'm out.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

request deadline extension

ill see what i can get done

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kantrip, as much as I've had to rely on it, we don't need to introduce more Wifom by letting this go another night.

You and Brosuke need to make a decision while it's still the two of you.

This .

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, as much as I've had to rely on it, we don't need to introduce more Wifom by letting this go another night.

You and Brosuke need to make a decision while it's still the two of you.

Not only have you had to rely on WIFOM, but you were a strong advocate for No Lynching earlier.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't think I gave one yet but sure.

You get 4 more days.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Raziek looks like he's flailing but he's saying some interesting things while doing so.

Ryker's case is an anti-case and I can definitely see why, it's basically the only thing to go off on.

Still leaning Raziek but not sure. An extension would be swell, if not, I'm voting Raz.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yea Kantrip we're deciding today.

 

[Raziek]

Town flails. Scum flails. Your point?

I want to know what you agree with, disagree with, and why?

"makes some interesting points" isn't enough.

 

[Raziek]

And why are you giving ryker an out on his "anti-case" when the situation we're in completely necessitated that I had to be the one to make a case, no matter the strength?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Because, the point is that your case has no strength. I've already pointed out multiple problems I've had with your play. PoE has left it where you have to make a case on me and I have to show that it's not as strong as you're making it out to be because, unless you could bolster your own, my record holds up to inspection better than your's.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Xonar, step in and tell him to comply.

I want his case on me WITHOUT the WIFOM and meta.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Town flails. Scum flails. Your point?

Are we really playing this game?
Someone who has a good case does not have to resort to flailing. You're not only convincing me of your town being by making that case, you're mainly convincing me of Ryker being scum.

I want to know what you agree with, disagree with, and why?

...Sigh. I just woke up and I'll be going to bed in about an hour, so I'll do this tomorrow. God bless deadline extensions.

And why are you giving ryker an out on his "anti-case" when the situation we're in completely necessitated that I had to be the one to make a case, no matter the strength?

Explain to me how I'm giving Ryker an out. Your case has almost no power, it's almost purely WIFOM and meta. It's true that he has almost nothing to go off on, to the point of having to resort to an anti-case. You at least had the chance, hell, I bet that Kantrip's case would be better, and he's been playing his slot very badly. (sorry Kantrip, I don't mean to offend, it's just an honest opinion)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well Ryker, see that post thingy there.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

One of the only things holding me back is you jumping Rajam while Ryker vs J was going on. It bugs me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm going out for a smashfest on my birthday in about 2 minutes. I think they're trying to surprise me, but they're bad at it. Anyway, I'll either be on laaaaaaaaaaaate tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Kantrip]

It's unfair to say that Raziek has a bad case while saying that Ryker having no case is warranted.

Give them even footing on that front: There isn't much to draw from either of them. It would be nice if Ryker could summarize points against Raziek from BEFORE it was set up to be Ryker VS Raz toDay.

Yeah, we are deciding toDay with that generous extension. I'm rereading Rajam again.