FinOlimar Q&A Thread! (Check OP before posting)

[Tin Man]

I beleive olimar isn't the best in teams, i agree with him being a great support character. As for the nado question, Nair into the center if coming from above, Dair works as well. when it is coming at u, u can grab/pivot grab if it is grounded, if it aint, upB and it hits Mk out of it.

 

[Dotcom]

Don't get too dependent on Dair though, because if you initiate the attack too close you'll just get pulled back in. Nair is a much safer option because it has a wider time frame that is able to break Nair coming from the top.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

So nair dair and upB. That's good to know thanks.


@coco your friend makes a pretty strong case for Wario.

 

[Sky Pirate]

A friend of mine brought up a good point and I wanna see your guy's outlook on it..


Me and him were discussing olimar in teams and He said yes olimar is a good support character but why pick olimar as your partner when you can have a great dubz character like wario

What are your thoughts?

Well, Olimar is excellent at getting ninja damage in doubles and controlling the stage itself.
I guess it would boil down to individual doubles experience and team chemistry, whether you prefer aggressive short-range support or long-range support.
CONSIDER THIS, though:

Olimar is a better dancer.

 

[-Coco-]

So nair dair and upB. That's good to know thanks.


@coco your friend makes a pretty strong case for Wario.

Not just Wario but anyone in general I guess what im asking is

Is it possible for me to wind up teaming with some of the higher players despite there being better team choices like Snake, D3, Wario etc...

 

[Denti]

yo fino! i have some questions about olimars recovery that i'd like to ask and see if you know because it's really starting to affect my game victorys. okay so my question is...

olimar's Up special pikmin teather connects to the stage's ledge. when hit or thrown off the stage are there certain moves or throws that will cause your pikmin to become stupid and separate? like an imidient up special kills me because my pikmin arent in a line or organized. Does that happen randomly because of strange pikmin programming thats never predictable or does certain damage, stages, and moves garuntee that happening?

thx!

 

[Llumys]

Don't do anything unless you're sure your line is ready for it.

Whistle.

 

[Fino]

Don't do anything unless you're sure your line is ready for it.

Whistle.

Pretty much this. Though I'm guilty of doing it myself, I wouldn't tether unless you are sure that your line is with you.


~Fino

 

[Dabuz]

how can we punish a shielded upair from metaknight? (excluding perfect shield)

 

[Llumys]

I assume there isn't enough time for usmash OoS.

This is a strange idea, but how about tether OoS?

 

[DanGR]

Dabuz, it's a frame trap. You can't do anything worth doing. You shield or get hit... or both.

EDIT: I'm assuming you're on a platform above him.

 

[Llumys]

That's what I assumed too.

It's a frame trap, but we must have some options that are better than others.

Frame traps aren't completely inescapable, right? From what I understand, you only have a few frames to react.

During those few frames, what would be our best options? :X

 

[Dabuz]

thats what im trying to figure out, there HAS to be something we can do to punish or at least reliably get out

 

[Llumys]

I'm sure there's nothing that would work every time.

 

[DanGR]

Upair:

frame breakdown:
1 startup
2-3 hitbox out
4-13 aerial cooldown

frame summary:
Hits on: 2
IASA frame: 14
Aerial cooldown: 10
Landing lag: 12
Autocancels on: 21
Shield hitlag differential: 0
Shield stun: 2
Optimal shield advantage: -10
Optimal shield drop advantage: -3

If I'm interpreting this correctly, you've got 8 frames between consecutive upairs to do anything. It takes 7 to drop your shield, 7 to jump out of shield (bypassing the 7 it takes to drop your shield iirc, but adding 7 to jump. >.>), and 2 to whistle or airdodge. You can't do any of that in time if you're frame perfect. This also means no aerials of out shield.

If you don't drop your shield directly your only options are to roll, spotdodge, jump canceled upsmash out of shield, jump canceled upb out of shield... and staying in your shield.

• Rolling will get you punished.
• Spotdodging will get you punished.
• Beginning to jump takes 1 frame, then you can cancel that into... + 8 frame upsmash = 9 frames. Not quick enough.
• Upb is even slower.
• Shielding... just may work.

Here are the steps I suggest taking to minimize the damage you'll take and possibly hit him away.

1. Predict what they'll do if you stay in your shield. LOOK AT THEIR PATTERNS. Do they tend to keep upairing your shield? Do they nair after the first upair? Do they tornado after two hits?
2. You can punish a nair out of shield. You can also dair out of shield right through the middle of the tornado if you know that's going to come next. (flashy spike kill on sharking opponents? lol) If they always just keep upairing you can't do anything. No one does that unless they're sharking though, haha.
3. Begin to SDI+DI as soon as you input what you decided on doing in the last step if you chose to jump out of shield. If they didn't tornado and instead upaired again, you'll be glad that you DIed the first hit.
4. If you decide that you don't want to do any of that and just choose to stay in your shield, then good luck. Your shield will be poked and you'll get tornadoed out of it. DI the tornado and try to nair at the top.

 

[Fino]

It takes 7 to drop your shield, and 2 to whistle or airdodge- you can't do either in time if you're frame perfect. This also means no aerials of out shield.

It normally takes 5 frames to drop your shield unless you do an upB out of it, then it drops on frame 1 (it's an auto jump cancel like doing dash and c-sticking up). I didn't read the rest though.
MK can do a lot of things after a uair on shield (assuming you're above them on the platform). The safest, most reliable, thing to do is just shield until you're given an option to get out. After the first uair, mks usual options are to jump uair, fall uair, jump nair. I would wait for one of those to come out before trying to do anything.


~Fino

 

[Denti]

good answer! but i still have like a question about it, why do sometimes the pikmin fail to come to you quickly? whats the cause? is it unkown atm or random pikmin programing thing? cuz i doubt it's random and i'd like to know what stages and damage and moves give a bigger chance for this ya know?

 

[Fino]

good answer! but i still have like a question about it, why do sometimes the pikmin fail to come to you quickly? whats the cause? is it unkown atm or random pikmin programing thing? cuz i doubt it's random and i'd like to know what stages and damage and moves give a bigger chance for this ya know?

Hilt is the pikmin mechanic expert..... lol
I can't quite give you an exact answer like he might be able too ._.


~Fino

 

[Denti]

hey fino! got another one for ya! this one is about the MK match up! okay so here it goes!

how would i deal with an MK slowly pressuring his way closer to me with Dair camp causing me to retreat more? i'm having trouble with that, i've tried grabbing but then they tornado or somthing, and i've tried up B and it's just not that efective. help? or do i need to explain this situation more?


WOOPS I DOUBLE POSTED! CRAP.

 

[Fino]

hey fino! got another one for ya! this one is about the MK match up! okay so here it goes!

how would i deal with an MK slowly pressuring his way closer to me with Dair camp causing me to retreat more? i'm having trouble with that, i've tried grabbing but then they tornado or somthing, and i've tried up B and it's just not that efective. help? or do i need to explain this situation more?


WOOPS I DOUBLE POSTED! CRAP.

shield'd dair + usmash / uair beats mks dair camping. Olimar is so short, sometimes you can get away with crouching to avoid and punish the dair.


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

uair rarely works, considering the mk is smart enough to not be too high to where you have space to jump and use the attack, though if he rises too high from his dair, up air can hit. In this situation, Olimar is actually more vulnerable with up air than he is with up smash. I'll oftentimes try to fit in an up smash in between his dairs, when he's approaching with them, but this doesn't always work extremely well. If the mk isn't too aggressive in his dair approach and actually uses it to bait your punish, and punish you for it, it's extremely difficult to get around.

Edit: Fixed your double post.

 

[Denti]

i like both of those answers guys! i didn't think about Uair, and timing up smash against bad nears bear's MK is dificult because he can see the strike point and knows when Dair and beat an olimar upsmash depending on pikmin. i'll test both of those out.
originally i tried spamming pikmin toss to pressure him into somthing different but Dair beats all pikmin toss

thx for fixing the double post!

 

[321BOOM]

I've got a true/false question for you guys

_____ 1. It is possible to attack in the middle of olimar's grab in order to stop it.

If true, is there a special way how? or is it as easy as pressin zah button?

 

[Dyyne]

This may not be completely correct in my explanation, but it's not really that you are attacking in the middle of his grab. It's more that the attack and the grab occur at the same time. Olimar does not have grab armor (or whatever it's called these days), so if you do a fast attack at the moment you are grabbed, olimar will be hit away.
As for there being a special way to do it...not really. It often doesn't really require timing. Don't go out of your way to be a bad move to stop it, just play normally and chances are that it will be interrupted sometimes (some characters have better options than others for interrupting it, like diddy)

 

[321BOOM]

Ah. So if we are able to time to grab, there's a chance we can stop it?

If it hasn't already, I say this is great thing to look into.
It could prove to be a great advantage over Olimar, as well as making Olimar players more aware of their weaknesses.

 

[PUNK9]

Ah. So if we are able to time to grab, there's a chance we can stop it?

If it hasn't already, I say this is great thing to look into.
It could prove to be a great advantage over Olimar, as well as making Olimar players more aware of their weaknesses.

my advice.
dont bother to stop it, just spot dodge and when the pikmin passes you, punish oli

 

[Tin Man]

I Andrew, welcome to Smash World Forums

 

[Turazrok]

Whats the best way to deal with rob camping lasers/gyro?

 

[Llumys]

Powershield them.

 

[DanGR]

If you don't shield the gyro (throw a pikmin at it) you can pick it up and camp with it in hand. Do that and stay on the ground and try to powershield the lasers.

 

[RichBrown]

Yeah I just pick up the gyro lol

 

[Turazrok]

Can I pivot grab MK out of nado? Or do anything against it besides slamming him with a purple?

 

[DanGR]

If the tornado goes low enough to the ground you can grab it. You can also DI the first hit of the tornado and nair at the top. That and the pikmin chain.

 

[KBM]

ooo, DI into nair? i will try that out. sounds sexy.

 

[Turazrok]

What is olimar's best cp against a very campy MK?

 

[Tin Man]

Can I pivot grab MK out of nado? Or do anything against it besides slamming him with a purple?

U can pivot grab or regular grab, when it is close to he ground

ooo, DI into nair? i will try that out. sounds sexy.

I agree, I didn't even think of that, instead of air dodge, do for Nair

 

[Jane]

two questions,

1. can someone give me a good explanation of pivot grabbing and how it's useful? i kinda know what it is but don't know how to apply it.


2. would wario be a good secondary for oli? i don't really enjoy playing MK or snake, but love wario. could it work out?


thank yee :D

 

[Noa.]

Pivot grabbing is when you're running and you turn around and grab very quickly. It's very useful for grabbing opponents who are landing from an aerial, while still being completely safe. Pivot grabbing is one of the safest options Olimar has since he's retreating and then quickly filling that space with a long grab.

A good secondary relies on your own personal bad matchups with Oli. You may be good at playing some of Oli's disadvantaged matchups, and bad at others. The same with his even matchups. I'll never use a counterpick for Peach, since I know the matchup so well, but Rich uses MK if he has to play a Peach. Just consider your bad matchups, and if your secondary counters them.

 

[Zori]

pivot grabbing is like running away and approaching at the same time :D

 

[Llumys]

In other words, Olimar's best approach is getting the hell out of there.