FinOlimar Q&A Thread! (Check OP before posting)

[Johnny Citrus]

@BlackWaltz: I live in Monmouth County which is central Jersey so I'm not far from Princeton and a lot of other areas where tournaments are held.

oh and thanks for the response Zori i'll consider those options.

 

[Kinisaro]

switching to olimar

I played a lot with Tl but after a while he got too repetetive for me. I usually play at home with bros and friends but hes just not that fun for me anymore and i was thinking of trying Olimar, are there any chars or stages he has particular trouble with?

 

[Master Knight DH]

Olimar's ground game is powerful, particularly his grab range. He also has the Pikmin Chain to hit aerial opponents at a 45 degree angle in case aerial opponents decide to be a bother. And the Pikmin Throw to spam because flowers just provide no benefits for no good reason. (Although Pikmin Throw doesn't cause stun unless Purples are thrown.)

 

[Noa.]

Olimar's troubling matchups are Luigi, Peach and MK. Marth can also be considered a perceptible bad matchup. Most of these are due to Olimar's pitiful priority.

Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise are bad stages for Olimar. Japes makes it very difficult to recover when you're in the water. Cruise is bad for Olimar due to his tether recovery. Sone Olimars actually do well on these stages, but usually we tend to avoid them.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Sone Olimars actually do well on these stages, but usually we tend to avoid them.

Those freaks.
You can also go through the counterpicking thread to learn about what stages to use against specific characters.

 

[Fino]

Jungle Japes is a bad stage for Olimar. Rainbow Cruise is awesome and I think it's the best olimar stage and have no qualms about playing on it since multiple platforms and a walk off ledge means you can't get gimped, and low blast zones means you will kill retardedly early. Additionally RC is good because you can just build a wall of pikmin that your opponent (most of the time) can't do anything about.

*fixed for justice*


~Fino

 

[Noa.]

In all honesty, I like cruise myself. I'm just saying that he probably wouldn't prefer it.

 

[Llumys]

I have a question for you, Fino.

Why do people always run into my fully charged purples?

 

[Fino]

I have a question for you, Fino.

Why do people always run into my fully charged purples?

Just... happens. I know what you mean, it's mind games I guess? G&W mains do it a lot too, mk's will charge an fsmash why it works? Boggles my mind, but I continue to do it. lol.


~Fino

 

[SuSa]

I always run into smashes when my opponents charge them. I never expect them to charge.

*Smash animation*
*I tap shield*
*Shield drops*
*gets hit by partially charged smash*

 

[Shadow pikmin]

Need Help!

What do leaf, bud, and flower pikmin do?

 

[Llumys]

The first stage, leaf, does nothing, but it's awesome.
The second stage, bud, does nothing, but it's lame.
The third stage, flower, does nothing, but it's awesome.

Think of it like Pokémon or people; no one likes the middle ones.

but srsly tey do nthign

 

[Dyyne]

I haz a question. Lately, jab has been really bad lawl. I use it to make them gtfo, but they usually just get hit by the really weak part, then pop a power shield and grab me. Halp.

 

[Fino]

I always run into smashes when my opponents charge them. I never expect them to charge.

*Smash animation*
*I tap shield*
*Shield drops*
*gets hit by partially charged smash*

There you go Llumys lol.


~Fino

 

[Llumys]

v^_^=

Why is Olimar so lulzy?

 

[Fino]

I haz a question. Lately, jab has been really bad lawl. I use it to make them gtfo, but they usually just get hit by the really weak part, then pop a power shield and grab me. Halp.

Interesting... I'm not sure. I haven't seen that before? Perhaps you can punish them by mixing it up. Jab jab utilt or Jab jab dtilt might work.... though I haven't tried it myself (of you can tilt before the second jab that'd work too, but it never seems to work when I try it <.<)

In my head, a plausible option would be jab-jab (they power shield the jab) and then do the tilt. Olimar's utilt and dtilt avoid characters grab boxes (depending on the character).

Other than that, I can only say try a different GTFO move? @.@ I've really never seen this before =-/

...
S***


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

You can just not jab when they're not close, and if you're not sure don't do it. (awkward wording) I don't really use it much for that same reason, Dyyne. Its range isn't that great and I'd rather roll away or pivotgrab to reset my spacing. It's also really bad upon shield block. I'd rather use a dsmash or upsmash that pushes the opponent back if they shield. The pikmin attacks also don't have any hitlag. I only use his jab when I need to punish a character that's pretty close, and as quickly as possible, such as punishing a roll or spotdodge. It's not a great move, overall, imo.

 

[Noa.]

Sometimes I only hit with the antenna, and that leaves me open to an attack.

But the tilts seem useful. I'll see if you can do jab>tilt. I wouldn't have to worry so much now.

 

[DanGR]

Oli's uptilt has less range horizontally than his jab. If you usually hit with the antenna, you're not going to hit with uptilt.

Ftilt is a decent option as well. It really just depends on the situation.

 

[Plasma Pikmin]

I got a question too. =/

Most Olis I see play don't really make a use of Utilt. Most of them usually just say to use Utilt against Wario for his Dair. But when I saw Gonta play against a Falco, he seemed to make really good use of Utilt.

How can we really make use of Utilt other than against Wario, and when would be a good time to use it?

 

[DanGR]

It's only good if you know your opponent will come from above, and at what speed. Otherwise it's really quite bad, as it renders you immobile, lasts unsafely long, and doesn't do great damage if they can DI out.

Uptilt is good against Wario's dair- not Wario.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Don't use uptilt against Falco.

 

[Fino]

Don't use uptilt against Falco.

It stops dair approaches....
DANGR... STFU YOU'RE SO DUMB!!! ^^;
~Fino

 

[BlackWaltzX]

It's a multi-hit box against a hard hit box. Do you mean for Fox?

 

[Fino]

It's a multi-hit box against a hard hit box. Do you mean for Fox?

Probably. lol.


~Fino

 

[Llumys]

Utilt never stops Falco's dair for me, but it has stopped Fox's.

 

[Fino]

Utilt never stops Falco's dair for me, but it has stopped Fox's.

I must be getting them mixed up then XD It's not like it's pivot grabbable either cause he's just going to jab after the dair


~Fino

 

[BlackWaltzX]

You -can- pivot grab falco. They don't jab after dair.
That's fox again, Fino.

 

[Noa.]

As a smasher, I've always held thought that rolling is a bad option for practically all characters.

When most players roll when they shouldn't, I believe that's because they have not yet learned their character's options and that when they feel pressured, they roll for lack of an apparent option that is better.

But since I have learned more of Olimar and have become better with him, I still roll constantly enough to have me notice. Watching some videos on youtube, I notice that a lot of other Olimars roll as well.

So my question is, is it okay for Olimar to roll?

 

[DanGR]

It's ok to roll as long as you don't get punished. Generally, at a high level of play you'll get punished more for it though. Olimar's roll is especially bad, so use it very sparingly.

Personally, I'll often go several matches without rolling because it's so bad to do. I only use it to space if I'm in a tight situation or something. I don't think I roll enough now that I think about it. >.>

 

[platiepoos]

My question:
Do you, as Olimar mains, feel that Olimar can win fairly large tournaments without the use of secondarys with enough time put into him? I understand that "any player can beat any player" but I would like to hear what the Olimar community thinks. I know all characters benefit from a secondary, but going all Olimar just sounds so appealing to me.

If you do believe that Olimar needs a secondary to place well, what are your opinions on King Dedede? He seems to cover Oli's bad matchups PRETTY well (MARF!), with the exception of MK. DK also goes neutral with Marth, but falters when it comes to Luigi, as well as MK. MK is, well, you know, and has the advantage on almost everyone, however Kirby experience prior to deciding to main Olimar could help me with especially difficult MKs. Overall, MK stands out as the nost prominent hole in my suggested mains. (Please don't suggest anything like MK and Snake, since I like to use more unorthodox characters.) Wario is also a tempting offer, but needs a CP for Marth himself and really is better suited as a main than a secondary.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I've been working on DDD as a secondary, personally. He covers most of olimar's bad matchups. The only matchup he does worse than olimar in is the Meta Knight matchup. He does really well against marth, does well against peach, ***** luigi, and those are really the only matchups most people have problems with, with olimar. I, personally, also have a wolf problem, which is cured by DDD.

Marth also covers olimars matchups pretty well, while doing better than him in the MK matchup (although some see the oli mk matchup as only 40:60). R.O.B. has problems against peach, though he beats luigi pretty bad. Not as bad as DDD though, for obvious reasons. R.O.B. also has a HUGE meta knight problem, to the point of where you'd be better off using olimar, if R.O.B.'s only your secondary. And he doesn't really cover marth either, as far as I know. But I could be wrong. Also, GW isn't too big of a problem for olimar. There's indifference on what the matchup actually is, but it DEFINITELY wouldn't be worse than 40:60, and probably isn't even that.

As for going only Olimar in tournament, it's definitely possible. You're still going to have a Meta Knight problem, and if you happen to run into a really good peach, or boss, you're ****ed. But there are very few matchups that he has a LOT of problems with. But if you're better than you're the best one there, it's not like a matchup would influence an upset. And there's people like RichBrown and Dabuz that have gotten 1st in reasonably large tournaments. Other than that, there's a lot of 2-5 places (especially AndyG who kept placing second behind M2K lol), but not many 1st places. A secondary is definitely a good idea, but winning it on your own is possible, for sure.

 

[Noa.]

It's ok to roll as long as you don't get punished. Generally, at a high level of play you'll get punished more for it though. Olimar's roll is especially bad, so use it very sparingly.

Personally, I'll often go several matches without rolling because it's so bad to do. I only use it to space if I'm in a tight situation or something. I don't think I roll enough now that I think about it. >.>

I myself do not like rolling. It makes me feel vulnerable and very noobish.

When I mained G&W, I never rolled. G&W's roll was uber slow, laggy, and short. Probably one of the worst rolls in the game. Plus, G&W had his UpB to retreat from situations.

But as I play Olimar, I just notice that I can get away with more rolling than I did with G&W. I think Olimar as a character may actually find it more useful than most other characters.

 

[platiepoos]

I did more research and edited my post, most likely as you were typing that. (Very informative by the way)

I found that G&W is not as much of a problem as I thought he was for some reason, and that R.O.B. really wasn't the best partner for Oli. D3 does great against Peach, like you said, which I just read in the D3 boards. DK also shows a lot of promise for his even match up with Marth, low learning curve, etc. However DK does poorly against Luigis. (rare as they may be) I'm not so sure about DK vs. Peach though....

 

[Dabuz]

im telling you right now, against a metaknight who knows the oli vs meta mathup its 65-35 meta, im planning on picking up meta just for meta matchup

 

[IcyLight]

i find it more to be a 70-30 after versing high level mk's at apex, we can't recovery period if they are smart and it's not all that hard to knock us off =/

i've actually been using ice climbers as a secondary, using them in tournaments vs. not so good players/decent ones now and then just so ic an get the feel of them in a tournament match slowly. they seem to **** luigi and peach for me, marth i can deal with he's really easy to cg but hard to grab and mk is just mk...i'm not going to pick up mk just to fight him =/


NOW FOR MY QUESTION:::

would anyone be willing to create a visual hitbox chart like mr. magus does for melee? I mean, with the red/yellow/blue boxes to depict the range exactly so we can physically see it, rather than knowing the pixel length. this has been brought up before but i haven't heard anything about it in a while, i'de do so myself but i don't really have the tools to view frame by frame or to view hit boxes =/

 

[IcyLight]

I got a question too. =/

Most Olis I see play don't really make a use of Utilt. Most of them usually just say to use Utilt against Wario for his Dair. But when I saw Gonta play against a Falco, he seemed to make really good use of Utilt.

How can we really make use of Utilt other than against Wario, and when would be a good time to use it?

kind of late on response, and double post, but i use olimars uptilt when snake is dthrow chasing me. i tap up to get up quickly and then utilt, it's very surprising and quick as they usually wait to make sure they don't mess up, good to throw in now and then but VERY predictable if you use it and he can just move sideways and then **** you

 

[Fino]

I just picked up IC's for a secondary and learn to grab matches I don't want to learn.
:]

Also, stop b****ing about mk. Seriously.... it's really old. IMHO it's near even, but no one will listen to me so that's fine.
IMHO is also one of the best acronyms evar XD

~Fino


EDIT:

would anyone be willing to create a visual hitbox chart like mr. magus does for melee? I mean, with the red/yellow/blue boxes to depict the range exactly so we can physically see it, rather than knowing the pixel length. this has been brought up before but i haven't heard anything about it in a while, i'de do so myself but i don't really have the tools to view frame by frame or to view hit boxes =/

I've always wanted to; however, I lack the tools to do so. That being said, I don't have the time for making up not having the right tools to do it XD.
Unlike melee, Brawl doesn't have a debug mode where it visualizes hit-boxes for you =-/ I'm waiting for someone to come out with that before I do anything XD

im telling you right now, against a metaknight who knows the oli vs meta mathup its 65-35 meta, im planning on picking up meta just for meta matchup

What about an oli that knows the meta match-up? You can't make what-if scenarios and say that the match-up applies because of this. You have to assume both players are at equal skill level.

 

[platiepoos]

MK isn't as big of a problem for me as Marth, I can handle most MK's I've played feasibly well.

In fact, if it wasn't for Marth and Peach I don't think I'd necessarily need a secondary at all.

Also, I've been told it's not a very good idea to adopt a secondary to CP the same character, since an MK secondary is generally not going to be as good as an MK main.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

What about an oli that knows the meta match-up? You can't make what-if scenarios and say that the match-up applies because of this. You have to assume both players are at equal skill level.

That's what he's saying. If the Olimar DOESN'T know the matchup, he's ****ed. But even if he does, it's still going to be a REALLY hard time for him. Show me a video of you beating a meta knight that knows what he's doing, and then argue.

40:60 is, imo, the closest thing to even I would agree to. 35:65 is a lot more reasonable, though. The thing is, is that most MKs just go into matches saying "I'M META KNIGHT! WHY LEARN THE MATCHUP?! I'M JUST GONNA RUSH HIS *** DOWN AND THERE'S NOTHING HE CAN DO BECAUSE HE'S NOT META KNIGHT", and it's because of these mks that Olimars started thinking the matchup was close to 50:50. But when one actually takes time to learn the matchup, it's a LOT harder for Olimar to deal with MK. Also, this second paragraph isn't to you, fino, but everyone else. We've had this conversation way too many times and I've realized there's no point in me trying to argue it to you lol