Final Zelda Discussion - What's In, what's out?

[Deleted member]

Ganon in TP was even bigger. He took up almost the entire battlefield where you fought him.

And you're probably right. In the games he has an advantage because of his:

. Gigantic size (4x as tall as Ganondorf)
. Extremely powerful attacks
. Long as hell reach
. A small weak point

If they cannot make him have at least three of these four points, it's not worth it. His size in comparison to Ganondorf will be the biggest problem, as if he's not twice as big it won't look right. A special move may be the way to go with him after all, as a brief segment with Ganondorf as a gargantuan pig Ganon killing everything would be more acceptable. He'd also be an amazing boss, like Giga Bowser.

 

[Shuma]

Well but isn't TP's Ganon like an... uhm a Boar? how would you get a Gigantic Boar into Brawl?

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly. Downscaling that would look terrible.

 

[Wiseguy]

i guess no one likes shiek anymore.
And wise guys got skillzz on that post thing

Thank you.

I don't know who this guy is.

Vaati (sorry, I guess my original spelling was incorrect) is the main villian in the Four Swords Zelda games (ie: Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Minish Cap). Not a personnal favorite of mine.

Here is is on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaati

I really want him in. He's totally deservant of a spot, 'specially his MM version. I know his "time has past", but he didn't get a chance to begin with! Majora's Mask was presented poorly in 'Melee due to the lack of Skull kid and Y.Link, whilst being very similar and having his own MM stage, was pretty much OoT Y.Link. Skull Kid needs to represent the older games if everyone else is going to be based on TP, and we need another main villain. I can also see a lot of move possibilities with his levitating/mind games, as well as a super terrific moon-summoning special move! He's one of my favourite characters, one of the elite Zelda ones, and is unique to the Zelda series.

I always saw Young Link in Melee as having attributes from both OoT and MM. Sure, his Kakori sword and Deku sheild are from OoT but his bow, fire arrows and hookshot are straight from Majora's Mask.

I'm glad Majora's Mask got a bit of representation in Melee (Termania is one of my favorite stages) but yeah, the inclusion of Skull Kid would have been a more fiting tribute to the game. If I had a time machine, I would go back to when Melee was in development and plead with Sakurai to include him over Zelda/Sheik .

I think a Majora's mask-wearing Skull Kid in Brawl would be about the greatest thing ever, which is why his very low chances of making the cut are so depressing. Although you and I appreciate the brilliance of MM, it is by far the most underrated 3-D Zelda game in existance. So, even if Sakurai did decide to include one character from an older Zelda game (as in not from Twilight Princess or Windwaker/Phantom Hourglass) I'm not sure the Skull Kid would even be on his raydar. At the very least, I would say that his absense from Sakurai's poll raises the question as to whether he was even considered for a spot in Brawl. And you msut admit, his appearance in TP was significantly less Brawl worthy...

Understand, I'm by no means against having Skull Kid in Brawl (I've already pledged an arm and a leg to the cause which, come to think of it, would make it kind of difficult to play Brawl...) I'm just being realistic.

In the end, I really don't expect more than five Zelda characters to make the cut, so that most likely mean that TP Link, TP Ganondorf, TP Zelda, Midna and WW Link will represent the series in Brawl. Zelda is great, but expecting many more characters than that would be stretching it, in my view.

 

[Serpit]

But I do. There's been 5 Zelda characters in Meel, so I am pretty sure we will see 6-7 in Brawl.

 

[Wiseguy]

But I do. There's been 5 Zelda characters in Meel, so I am pretty sure we will see 6-7 in Brawl.

That would be great, but I somehow doubt it. Considering there could be as low as, say, 35 characters total I consider having 5 characters representing the Zelda series to be a fair number. Then again, we don't know anything for certain - other than that TP Link will appear.

 

[Wrath`]

For some reason i think that there is going to be 40-45

ssb had 14 and ssbm had 25(26 if you count shiek)so that is an 11 man jump,i couild see them trying to go for 20 with all the new thec and stuff on these new things

 

[Deleted member]

Vaati (sorry, I guess my original spelling was incorrect) is the main villian in the Four Swords Zelda games (ie: Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Minish Cap). Not a personnal favorite of mine.

ptHere is is on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaati

Ah, thanks. He doesn't seem that important at all, really... Even if he is after Ganon.

I always saw Young Link in Melee as having attributes from both OoT and MM. Sure, his Kakori sword and Deku sheild are from OoT but his bow, fire arrows and hookshot are straight from Majora's Mask.

I don't know about that... It seems as if they included those just because Adult Link had 'em from OoT. There was nothing too obvious that hinted he was based off Majora's Mask, if we don't count the awesome stages.

I'm glad Majora's Mask got a bit of representation in Melee (Termania is one of my favorite stages) but yeah, the inclusion of Skull Kid would have been a more fiting tribute to the game. If I had a time machine, I would go back to when Melee was in development and plead with Sakurai to include him over Zelda/Sheik .

'Seems Ganondorf was added in as a clone because they were limited with time. I guess they already had made Sheik/Zelda, Link/Y. Link, which they may have thought were enough. You're right about Sheik and Skull kid, there was more support for Skull kid too. Sakurai chose to go with Sheik because of how lacking Zelda was, and to give her something special, but sacrificed a character place that should've been spent on Skull'. Her TP model will replace the need for Sheik.

I think a Majora's mask-wearing Skull Kid in Brawl would be about the greatest thing ever, which is why his very low chances of making the cut are so depressing. Although you and I appreciate the brilliance of MM, it is by far the most underrated 3-D Zelda game in existance. So, even if Sakurai did decide to include one character from an older Zelda game (as in not from Twilight Princess or Windwaker/Phantom Hourglass) I'm not sure the Skull Kid would even be on his raydar. At the very least, I would say that his absense from Sakurai's poll raises the question as to whether he was even considered for a spot in Brawl. And you msut admit, his appearance in TP was significantly less Brawl worthy...

Understand, I'm by no means against having Skull Kid in Brawl (I've already pledged an arm and a leg to the cause which, come to think of it, would make it kind of difficult to play Brawl...) I'm just being realistic.

In the end, I really don't expect more than five Zelda characters to make the cut, so that most likely mean that TP Link, TP Ganondorf, TP Zelda, Midna and WW Link will represent the series in Brawl. Zelda is great, but expecting many more characters than that would be stretching it, in my view.

You never know. As someone's already said, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess both take place in the "current timeline", meaning that having Skull kid in there could mean they're acknowledging his popularity and impact on that timeline's Link. He's certainly become a signature of the 3D games, from my prospective at least. I'd also give an arm, a leg and every hair on my head to see him in - which is what makes Sakurai's absent-mindedness about Majora's Mask seem so ignorant.

I'm reckoning they'll at least increase the character count by one or two. Ganondorf will take more time, he has to be de-clonified, as he was probably the one Sakurai had in mind when he spoke of "no clones" before. So seeing as there was an increase of four characters from SSB -> Melee, with Ganondorf's and Zelda's (can't forget her rapiers) revamps in mind it's logical there will be one or two new Zelda characters. Sheik being removed, I'm thinking that means TP Link, TP Ganondorf, TP Zelda, some form of Midna, some form of Y. Link, Skull kid/Zant/surprise characters.

If he wasn't on the poll maybe Sakurai is dedicated to putting him in more than anyone else? Maybe he feels he left him out? Who knows, I hope he's in.

 

[Creo]

If there is a Ganon idea, it should be like a Giga Bowser boss fight. But, it should be the Ganon from OoT with the two blades because that would be more suitible than the TP version of a huge hog. (For Wiseguy quote above... It is not kakori, it is kokiri. Had to clarify a common mistake.)

 

[Serpit]

If there is a Ganon idea, it should be like a Giga Bowser boss fight. But, it should be the Ganon from OoT with the two blades because that would be more suitible than the TP version of a huge hog. (For Wiseguy quote above... It is not kakori, it is kokiri. Had to clarify a common mistake.)

I'd really like to see Ganon as a boss. But look at it this way: Giga Bowser was based on Bowser. He was just a beefed up version. What would they bade Pig Ganon on, the regular Ganondorf? A rather drastical change if you ask me.

Same for Ridley. I hope he makes it in, either as a character or a boss. But If he is a boss, what character should they base him on?

Giga Bowser as boss was much more complex than Master Hand and Crazy Hand ebcause he behaved like an actual character. That's why I don't see bosses like him appearing without a regular character to base them on.

 

[Creo]

Well I can agree with you, but what if the last boss was Ganondorf with the Sages Sword, you got him down some damage(based on if you had to kill him like Master Hand) then he transformed into OoT version of Ganon. That would be cool.
Love your sig, and that's a great game.

 

[Deleted member]

The ultimate last battle would be Link & Mario versus Giga Bowser & Ganon.

 

[Serpit]

Well I can agree with you, but what if the last boss was Ganondorf with the Sages Sword, you got him down some damage(based on if you had to kill him like Master Hand) then he transformed into OoT version of Ganon. That would be cool.
Love your sig, and that's a great game.

Thanks. I like my sig too ^^ Leoneri made it.

The only flaw with your idea is that OOT Ganon has 2 swords. But I think of it a little different.

I personally think that all Zelda characters will be in their TP forms, save for Cel Shaded Link. So Ganon will have the Sage's sword, but his transformation would actually be a big fat boar.
If Ganondorf, however, makes it in SSBB in his OOT or WW form, or if they just ignore the afct that his TP uber form looked like a boar and not like a humanoid pig demon, then I think the classic Ganon should work best. You know, Blue Skin, big trident. A trident could replace the sword, would look a bit strange, but I think it could work.

I'm still rooting for Ridley in Brawl and Mecha Ridley as super boss, though

 

[zerosin]

I guess I'll just jump into this discussion. I liked Smash Daddy's comment (#128), esp. the conclusion:

I'm reckoning they'll at least increase the character count by one or two. Ganondorf will take more time, he has to be de-clonified, as he was probably the one Sakurai had in mind when he spoke of "no clones" before. So seeing as there was an increase of four characters from SSB -> Melee, with Ganondorf's and Zelda's (can't forget her rapiers) revamps in mind it's logical there will be one or two new Zelda characters. Sheik being removed, I'm thinking that means TP Link, TP Ganondorf, TP Zelda, some form of Midna, some form of Y. Link, Skull kid/Zant/surprise characters.

Decloning Ganondorf is (in my mind) priority number one. Second, I think TP Zelda will definitely show instead of OoT Zelda/Shiek. I like both options (Zelda and Shiek are part of my fun characters). And, if TP Zelda wields her rapier, that could add a whole new aspect on her abilities in the game (possibly faster? I dunno). Third, I would love to see Y. Link again. He is a clone of OoT adult link, but that's was Y. Link's foundation in MM. Fourth, I dunno about Skull Kid. I can't make an accurate assumption 'cuz I never beat MM; I did like it though. Fifth, I would love to see Zant. He could be an interesting addition. I think WW Link might be overkill. Maybe WW Link will replace Y. Link? (WW Link is young after all)
Those are my thoughts.

 

[Serpit]

I guess I'll just jump into this discussion. I liked Smash Daddy's comment (#128), esp. the conclusion:

Decloning Ganondorf is (in my mind) priority number one. Second, I think TP Zelda will definitely show instead of OoT Zelda/Shiek. I like both options (Zelda and Shiek are part of my fun characters). And, if TP Zelda wields her rapier, that could add a whole new aspect on her abilities in the game (possibly faster? I dunno). Third, I would love to see Y. Link again. He is a clone of OoT adult link, but that's was Y. Link's foundation in MM. Fourth, I dunno about Skull Kid. I can't make an accurate assumption 'cuz I never beat MM; I did like it though. Fifth, I would love to see Zant. He could be an interesting addition. I think WW Link might be overkill. Maybe WW Link will replace Y. Link? (WW Link is young after all)
Those are my thoughts.

Yeah, we've all been pretty much assuming that if WW Link makes it, Young Link gets the boot ^^ Glad you favor Zant, though

 

[zerosin]

I was too lazy to read all 9 pages and my comp's lagging 'cuz I'm dling a torrent. I have a simple question: what would be WW Link's distinct advantages that could give him the coveted ( ) position of being in SSBB and boot one of my fav characters Y. Link? Could anything beat the long but extremely satisfying imbibing of a bottle of milk?

 

[Creo]

Thanks. I like my sig too ^^ Leoneri made it.

The only flaw with your idea is that OOT Ganon has 2 swords. But I think of it a little different.

I personally think that all Zelda characters will be in their TP forms, save for Cel Shaded Link. So Ganon will have the Sage's sword, but his transformation would actually be a big fat boar.
If Ganondorf, however, makes it in SSBB in his OOT or WW form, or if they just ignore the afct that his TP uber form looked like a boar and not like a humanoid pig demon, then I think the classic Ganon should work best. You know, Blue Skin, big trident. A trident could replace the sword, would look a bit strange, but I think it could work.

I'm still rooting for Ridley in Brawl and Mecha Ridley as super boss, though

It is not a flaw because in melee, you can hold a beam sword and a regular sword so it can work like that. Plus it can have a stage from OoT with the broken pillars slanted on the ground and stuff.

(to above)^^^I don't think anything can beat a bottle of Lon-Lon Milk except the Chateau Romani.

 

[Stryks]

Ok heres why ganondorf turn out a clone in melee:

Uve all seen the fight scne where this ganondorf:

takes on link rite? thats the same sword from melee, sakurai was makin ganondorf to fit the one of that trailer, yes it was a trailer, they were gonna make a game like that, but miyamoto and company were fearing that it would be too similair to OoT, so they left the project, and starte workin in a new one, now we all know its WW, still miyamoto (im guessin) contacted sakurai, and told him that project was off, thus he would have to change ganondorf moves, seeing how he doesnt have a sword, the thing is he was running out of time, and didnt have time to make him unique (like he was b4 knowing the project was off) thus he mad ehim a clone...

Now im bettin it wont be so hard makin TP ganondorf unique, by givin some of the moves he had b4 turning out a clone, they would save some time, obcourse he has to add some moves from the TP game, but im sure it wont take as much as other characters...

 

[Creo]

I thought that Pic for that video was early development for TP... It was a good fight scene.

 

[Fawriel]

I was too lazy to read all 9 pages and my comp's lagging 'cuz I'm dling a torrent. I have a simple question: what would be WW Link's distinct advantages that could give him the coveted ( ) position of being in SSBB and boot one of my fav characters Y. Link? Could anything beat the long but extremely satisfying imbibing of a bottle of milk?

Your question makes no sense to me.
Young Link = young Link. At least I hope so. In my dreams, they'll keep the same style, give him better moves and just change his appearance to Wind Waker. Done. Still Young Link, still a running and jumping bomber jet. Or even moreso.

 

[Mysteryfox1]

I think ganon should be the super smash attack of ganondorf

 

[Creo]

Yeah the OoT or TP would be good. The OoT could go to a cinamatic screen, do that thing he does when he transforms in OoT then slash a triforce through the middle of the screen and hit anyone in that range.(meaning everyone)
For the TP version, it can show the other three characters in a camera behind back perspective and have Ganon running at them then smashes them off the screen.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Ganon should be like Snorlax, except with him swinging his swords/leaping across the screen depending on whether he's the TP boar or the OoT pig Ganon. Maybe it could be a choice, like the TP boar is faster and harder to avoid but the OoT pig Ganon does much more damage and is controlled by the player.

 

[Creo]

Or maybe this.

I think Ganon should be like Snorlax, except with him swinging his swords/leaping across the screen depending on whether he's the TP boar or the OoT pig Ganon. Maybe it could be a choice, like the TP boar is faster and harder to avoid but the OoT pig Ganon does much more damage and is controlled by the player.

 

[Deleted member]

You liked my idea, eh?

 

[Serpit]

What I can picture as Super Smash:

1.Boar Ganon: Ganondorf turns black, transforms into his TP boar form, and "locks on" the nearest player. Then he charges at this player, hitting everything in his path and the player. Now he disappears and drops down from above a second later, hitting the player again and everything above him. Then he turns back.

2.Spirit Ganon: Another idea. Ganondorf's body dissolves, and his spirit form rises out of it. I am talking about the one that looks like his face, made out of yellow-ish flames. This flame spirit proceeds to fly around the stage in a pattern and hit everything it touches, then it returns to it's origin and becomes Ganondorf again.

 

[Stryks]

Im actually going with ganondorf in god form (the flame-ish thing u said), I really want OoT ganon, but doubt it'll happen, the god form seems possible, maybe he would unleash a power blast of fire or something...

 

[Creo]

You liked my idea, eh?

It was alwright but mine was better.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean the one that Zant bargained with? That Ganon? Could be possible, it would be easier than creating a massive model to use once in a blue moon. Then again, it's not like they don't do that with the Pokemon in the 'balls. It'd be a little more imaginative to have a flashy technique that Ganondorf actually uses rather than that form, if we're on the same page about the spirit you're talking about.

It was alwright but mine was better.

So that's how it is.

 

[Serpit]

You mean the one that Zant bargained with? That Ganon? Could be possible, it would be easier than creating a massive model to use once in a blue moon. Then again, it's not like they don't do that with the Pokemon in the 'balls. It'd be a little more imaginative to have a flashy technique that Ganondorf actually uses rather than that form, if we're on the same page about the spirit you're talking about.

Yeah, I am talking about that one. "False God" form is probably better ^^

However, that woudl also be a nice Super Smash for Zant. Either unleashing Ganon's flaming face at the enemies, or creating one of his twilight balls and cover the field in a swarm of twilight bats. That would be awesome.

 

[Creo]

Or Ganondorf can use that light ball in OoT that you have to reflect with the Master Sword or he can use that huge dark blast from OoT.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I am talking about that one. "False God" form is probably better ^^

However, that woudl also be a nice Super Smash for Zant. Either unleashing Ganon's flaming face at the enemies, or creating one of his twilight balls and cover the field in a swarm of twilight bats. That would be awesome.

Yaa, that would sort of make sense too. Seeing as Ganondorf is "inside" Zant until he reaches the Light Realm, and gives his power to Zant. What a great way to show people that Zant isn't such a push-over (even if he is).

I know this is off-topic, but what do you guys reckon about multiple special moves happening at once? Didn't they mention this before? I think I remember somewhere someone say it's not possible.

 

[Creo]

Yeah it's not because it goes to a cinamatec screen.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean no super fireball battles?

 

[Fawriel]

I don't know about you, Mario's super smash didn't look very cinematic to me...

 

[Creo]

Like too Marios using it. From what I know, no. This is because If you noticed in the trailer, when Mario grabs it, it goes to a cinamatec screen then does the attack so theres no way to get two. And I would think only one coin would appear at a time anyways.
It's not but it does it a little.

 

[Deleted member]

It just sort of closes up, it could do the same with the next Mario. So it is possible...

 

[Creo]

Well that is also why I said that I highly doubt they will have two Smash coins on the playing field at one time.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess you're right. But we have no idea how it's going, I guess, so I shouldn't have asked. Thanks for the information anyway.

 

[Creo]

...That's not what I'm here for...To help people out when they are in need.