Final Smash 3, a Brawl/Melee tournament, Apr 19th, San Antonio TX

[The MC Clusky]

You're not a part of the smash community, so you wouldn't have known, but there is a difference between a store or business taking a profit from and tournament and a member of the smash community taking a profit. Our community prides itself on being very tight-knit, friendly, and generous. No tournament host that is a part of this community is expected to take money he did not win by placing in the tournament--he is supposed to do it for the love of the game. Just the fact that Kyle thinks he deserves money for hosting a tournament is incredibly insulting. It's a huge betrayal to all of us and it really shouldn't come as a surprise that he's well-hated now.

I've run probably 2 dozen local tournaments in Dallas the past couple years, as well as a handful in San Antonio before that, and I've never charged a dime for "labor." This is exactly what hundreds of tournament hosts all over the world do. Exceptions like Manacloud, who took money for himself at OC3, is now estranged from the community.

The worst part is that Kyle DOESN'T work for his money. He prepares for the tournament, but during the tournament itself he just gets other people to run the thing for him (FS2 he had DoH, Xelic, and TGM running the entire thing while he did practically nothing).

I would be happy to attend FS3 but I am unwilling to pay Kyle money for it, so Dallas won't be going.

Again with the "practically did nothing" line. Seriously man, it irks me as to how much trash you talk online. It's just a holier than thou argument, and I give people credit where credit is due. You tend to act like there was zero planning involved. It was me making sure people got safely to the tournament, were housed, and I worked like to build interest in the event. Sure Blue, you have run a lot of tournaments. How big were they? I am sure they do not involve the work of a multi state event. And did you not receive help from other people? I'm sure you did. I am also sure that you or anyone else would be offended that someone VOLUNTEERS to help you, but turns around later and badmouths the host and the tournament?

EDIT: I registered people, handled all of the questions, ran the brackets, set up equipment, yell out loud a lot, reset gamecubes, packed up tvs, CLEANED YOUR MESSES, explained the rules, and a million other things.

Sad how easy it is to ignore me though.

If you are speaking for the community, why are you in the minority? A small collective of people making all the statements against me? There was no tricks, nothing hidden from the public eye at Final Smash 2. But all you seem to be doing is claiming that I didn't do anything. All the other smashers from miles around that came said thanks for hosting such an awesome tournament, because there wasn't anything this special in a very long time.

If I was Manacloud, as you so rudely have called me, I would be calling everyone here lazy and other names, saying the money taken out was for gas money because California gas is expensive, and blame the players for everything.

Oh, and ban them afterwards.

I did have other people help me run the event. What I don't appreciate is people wanting to take more credit than deserved, since I was the person that planned the entire event. Who made sure Forward was getting a ride from the airport? Who tracked South Paw across San Antonio to make sure he wasn't stranded somewhere, going out of my way to meet up with him? You and DOH did not do everything. You two helped with the brackets and pools, WHICH YOU SCREWED UP because 3 people were missing. I thanked you already. You have no more reason to talk about it.

As for Kite, TGM, and others, I prefer working with them. Why? They don't log on the internet to harass my tournaments or call me lazy. Other people are thankful, but you are just ungrateful.

 

[Gamelot]

The worst part is that Kyle DOESN'T work for his money. He prepares for the tournament, but during the tournament itself he just gets other people to run the thing for him (FS2 he had DoH, Xelic, and TGM running the entire thing while he did practically nothing).

FS2 had 126 (approx) players for tournaments. How would you expect kyle (one person) to manage every aspect of the tournament without assistance? As a matter of fact, I assisted on several levels during tournament day....getting players to the correct spot for their pod, helping pod leaders with TV's, systems, and round reporting, etc.

Those individuals probably did assist. But, you cannot tell me Kyle did nothing! I was there all day and i know he worked hard.

I would be happy to attend FS3 but I am unwilling to pay Kyle money for it, so Dallas won't be going.

If i recall correctly, Kyle has stated several times he is not accepting anything for hosting this tournament. And I have seen several players post "we do everything for the love of the game... not the money" or a statement similar to it. If this is so, how does your declaration of "Dallas won't be going" apply?

 

[chickenwing2k2]

stuff.......

it's funny on how much you talk about how you ran tournaments. Which is all fine and dandy. I'm pretty sure Mr. Dallas that you know a particular man named IceColdEdge....

Bring my name to that man and then he can tell you...how good anyone he's worked with is...including myself.

Anywho, it's funny how how talk trash online and gain nothing out of your argument.

So...lemme tell you this:

Run a 100+ man tourney BY YOURSELF.....then come talk to me. Because if you haven't...you can't talk **** to Kyle.... Sorry sir....

 

[The MC Clusky]

If i recall correctly, Kyle has stated several times he is not accepting anything for hosting this tournament. And I have seen several players post "we do everything for the love of the game... not the money" or a statement similar to it. If this is so, how does your declaration of "Dallas won't be going" apply?

I think what Cliff is trying to say is that if it's about the love of the game, why are you demanding as much money as possible? There are plenty of players that have lost interest in the game but continue to play because there is money to made. If it was about love, then the prize shouldn't be as important.

More importantly.....
NAME CHANGED. This thread will stay open; I don't want any confusion, so there will be no second thread.

RULES UPDATED. The pricing is the only difference though.

For those asking about Melee, yes it may happen with enough interest after Brawl teams or near the end of it. Be sure to bring a memory card and a copy of the game if you are interested. Wii's are backwards compatible after all.

 

[bluezaft]

it's funny on how much you talk about how you ran tournaments. Which is all fine and dandy. I'm pretty sure Mr. Dallas that you know a particular man named IceColdEdge....

Bring my name to that man and then he can tell you...how good anyone he's worked with is...including myself.

Anywho, it's funny how how talk trash online and gain nothing out of your argument.

So...lemme tell you this:

Run a 100+ man tourney BY YOURSELF.....then come talk to me. Because if you haven't...you can't talk **** to Kyle.... Sorry sir....

I'm not complaining that he he should have run the whole thing himself. I'm complaining that he selfishly took money, which is made all the more insulting when he didn't even touch the brackets, contrary to what he said in his last post. I wouldn't care in the least if he didn't take money, it would be nothing more than a funny story to me. And in the results thread he called himself the best host in Texas and didn't even mention all the people who actually ran the tournament.

I have no clue why YOUR tournament accomplishments have anything to do with this, but I do know a lot about your tournament hosting accomplishments. It was before my time but I've talked to several old-school Dallas (Dkrew) smashers who started hated San Antonio tournaments because of YOU. Personally. You and your incompetence were enough to make all these Dallas players hate San Antonio. I've heard plenty of stories about how you would be ridiculously late to your tournaments and how they would be run really crappily even after they finally started. I would suggest you not start bragging about yourself since more than a few smashers have told me that this "chickenwing" was THE worst tournament host they've ever seen.


Gamelot: Let me clarify. Dallas isn't going because none of us like Kyle. Oh, and I don't know if you know this, but Kyle ALSO promised not to take money from FS2. And yet...

Kyle: Hey, guess what! I've thanked you countless times for all the preparations you've done for tournaments! Heck, I even gave you credit for it in that last post of mine. And you just gave me a lecture on how you work hard preparing for tournaments. What I don't like is you taking credit for actually running the thing, which you didn't do.

 

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

Yeah you're definitely gonna be changing the title if you want this thread to stay open

 

[The MC Clusky]

I'm not complaining that he he should have run the whole thing himself. I'm complaining that he selfishly took money, which is made all the more insulting when he didn't even touch the brackets, contrary to what he said in his last post. I wouldn't care in the least if he didn't take money, it would be nothing more than a funny story to me. And in the results thread he called himself the best host in Texas and didn't even mention all the people who actually ran the tournament.

I have no clue why YOUR tournament accomplishments have anything to do with this, but I do know a lot about your tournament hosting accomplishments. It was before my time but I've talked to several old-school Dallas (Dkrew) smashers who started hated San Antonio tournaments because of YOU. Personally. You and your incompetence were enough to make all these Dallas players hate San Antonio. I've heard plenty of stories about how you would be ridiculously late to your tournaments and how they would be run really crappily even after they finally started. I would suggest you not start bragging about yourself since more than a few smashers have told me that this "chickenwing" was THE worst tournament host they've ever seen.


Gamelot: Let me clarify. Dallas isn't going because none of us like Kyle. Oh, and I don't know if you know this, but Kyle ALSO promised not to take money from FS2. And yet...

Kyle: Hey, guess what! I've thanked you countless times for all the preparations you've done for tournaments! Heck, I even gave you credit for it in that last post of mine. And you just gave me a lecture on how you work hard preparing for tournaments. What I don't like is you taking credit for actually running the thing, which you didn't do.

Ya know, seriously there was no need for you or DOH to even bring up old stuff like this. Now you're saying I didn't even touch the brackets? Get out of here dude. You can go back and look at all the old posts, and see credit given to everybody. If I missed a few names, I posted later about it. It's hard to keep track of everyone when there is so many people.

You just came into the thread to start trouble, and no where in that last post did you actually say I did anything other than "preparing" which you also take very lightly. You said I stood around while other people did stuff for me. Which is not true. That's the bottom line.

 

[chickenwing2k2]

lol, that's cute blue.

I'd love how you like to mention one BAD tournament that was ran by me because you YOUR PEOPLE JesusFreak decided to put his 2 cents in because most of Dallas had knocked out most of the people there and it ended up with ALOT of Dallas played with each other Therefore ****ing up MY bracket and causing a re-do of an ENTIRE ROUND. Plus at that same tournament i was late coz i was a MANAGER at my job. WHICH MEANS...MY JOB IS MY PRIORITY! I'm Sorry that you all feel that way basing my tournaments off of one tournament. I've ran like maybe 2 tournaments for Smash. Others i've helped in.

but that's ok, ignorance is bliss.

since your *** can't comprehend my point in posting. Lemme dumb it down for you.

1.) Running a 32+ man is a job in itself.
2.) Like i stated before, it's not the Venue's discretion weather or not Kyle or any other TO get's paid.
3.) i'm not here to brag about my tournaments. I particularly don't care for this community personally. I'm here to point out is that you (Dallas and Kal) act like kids.

 

[Galt]

I'm not going to this tournament, so I don't have much to say, but I did attend the other two, so I'll say this, particularly in response to Bluezaft: I don't care what kind of ideal, altruistic Smash community you imagine, but tradition should have nothing to do with how Kyle runs his tournaments. He's absolutely, completely, totally allowed to make some money in compensation for the time, effort, and equipment he provides, *assuming he makes it explicit up front that he will be making some money.* I think it would also be preferable that he set the amount he will make before the tournament, rather than taking a percent. But still, it's a private enterprise like any other, and as the consumer, if you don't like what he's doing, your only reasonable option is to not attend. I see that you're doing that, and that's great--I'm all for you voicing your opinions in the only way that matters--but I don't like that you think some abstract Smash Law states that tournament organizers shouldn't be able to make money. That's stupid. Someone else could run a tournament by his own rules, and provide competition, and maybe he could even host it for free because he's a generous sap who likes that sort of thing, but that should have no moral bearing on whether Kyle should be able to make some money.

In summary, as long as he states before-hand that he will be taking some money, there is *no reason* why he shouldn't be able to do so. It would be best for him to make it a reasonable amount, because that's capitalism, but in the end, he's providing a service, and you always deserve compensation for services rendered.

(Galt gets all worked up when people treat selfishness like a bad thing and generosity/sacrifice/altruism like virtues)

 

[The MC Clusky]

I'm not going to this tournament, so I don't have much to say, but I did attend the other two, so I'll say this, particularly in response to Bluezaft: I don't care what kind of ideal, altruistic Smash community you imagine, but tradition should have nothing to do with how Kyle runs his tournaments. He's absolutely, completely, totally allowed to make some money in compensation for the time, effort, and equipment he provides, *assuming he makes it explicit up front that he will be making some money.* I think it would also be preferable that he set the amount he will make before the tournament, rather than taking a percent. But still, it's a private enterprise like any other, and as the consumer, if you don't like what he's doing, your only reasonable option is to not attend. I see that you're doing that, and that's great--I'm all for you voicing your opinions in the only way that matters--but I don't like that you think some abstract Smash Law states that tournament organizers shouldn't be able to make money. That's stupid. Someone else could run a tournament by his own rules, and provide competition, and maybe he could even host it for free because he's a generous sap who likes that sort of thing, but that should have no moral bearing on whether Kyle should be able to make some money.

In summary, as long as he states before-hand that he will be taking some money, there is *no reason* why he shouldn't be able to do so. It would be best for him to make it a reasonable amount, because that's capitalism, but in the end, he's providing a service, and you always deserve compensation for services rendered.

(Galt gets all worked up when people treat selfishness like a bad thing and generosity/sacrifice/altruism like virtues)

QFT.

Someone give this man a medal.

 

[Masterer Betty]

Final Smash 3 is gonna have 20 or less entries cuz of all this drama

 

[Hylian]

Final Smash 3 is gonna have 20 or less entries cuz of all this drama

But I want teh monies .

 

[Dojo]

Too bad im taking teh monies

 

[The MC Clusky]

Hylian! MM 1 dolllar?

Oh and expect a bunch of UTSA people to show up to this.

 

[Kal]

Any of them to enter Melee?

 

[The MC Clusky]

I dunno. Brawl is popular, but so is Melee. The crowd varies betweens the two tvs in the UC.

 

[dochimself]

Hylian! MM 1 dolllar?

i'll MM you, and poserwolf for $1 dollar

 

[The MC Clusky]

i'll MM you, and poserwolf for $1 dollar

Accepted. Also I can't wait to play Pozer at some 2d fighters.

Jose, bring yo game collection. I'll bring my PS2. If you want more than one PS2 going, bring yours.

 

[K1T3]

Any of them to enter Melee?

Probably only melee =P
Most all the UTSA players hate brawl and still play melee, that's probably cause they suck at it though...
Sorry I can't mm you in melee... I tried playing it the other day with them and I have no idea how to anymore... I don't push L at all (no L-cancel or wavedash) and I can't crouch for cc or canceling dash or dash grab/or jump cancel anything at all or dash dance..... I'm just plain terrible at melee now =(

Kyle you'll have to tell them about when the tourney is and all though since no one gets on smashboards

I'll probably do MMs for brawl... we'll see if I'm still playing it by the time or if this ever happens

 

[cHaNg-sTa]

Obviously, there are differing opinions. Many for it is ok for the host to receive compensation while others believe it's not. I, for one, believe it's not ok to receive money for an event that you're hosting. I personally believe when you're hosting an event for your fellow peers, it should be done just because you want to. Whenever my roommate or I host "food events" and invite people, I don't expect them to come and pay for the food. I am in fact inviting these people to the event simply because I want ppl to come, enjoy their time, and have fun.

Of course, I can understand the other side for wanting some money for compensation since after all, it's hard work and a lot of time is needed. But to keep this thought consistent, I believe the people that helped out should also be compensated just a little bit. After all, it's not possible for one person to do everything. But then again, I personally wouldn't ask people to pay me so.. I wouldn't know.

 

[dochimself]

Obviously, there are differing opinions. Many for it is ok for the host to receive compensation while others believe it's not. I, for one, believe it's not ok to receive money for an event that you're hosting. I personally believe when you're hosting an event for your fellow peers, it should be done just because you want to. Whenever my roommate or I host "food events" and invite people, I don't expect them to come and pay for the food. I am in fact inviting these people to the event simply because I want ppl to come, enjoy their time, and have fun.

Of course, I can understand the other side for wanting some money for compensation since after all, it's hard work and a lot of time is needed. But to keep this thought consistent, I believe the people that helped out should also be compensated just a little bit. After all, it's not possible for one person to do everything. But then again, I personally wouldn't ask people to pay me so.. I wouldn't know.

chang....i completely agree with you 100%, but you have to remember that not everybody is as nice about things as you and i and other plp opposing kyle to "making money" for hosting a ssbb tourney.

kyle: i say do whatever you want, just tell plp ahead of time, and if they don't agree...they simply don't go to the event.

I'll probably do MMs for brawl... we'll see if I'm still playing it by the time or if this ever happens

i'll MM you for 1 dollar. let me know^^

Accepted. Also I can't wait to play Pozer at some 2d fighters.

Jose, bring yo game collection. I'll bring my PS2. If you want more than one PS2 going, bring yours.

i don't actually have a ps2...i sold it to ben, but i'm sure i can bring bettys. if you want i'll MM you in 3s too. 1 dollar MM against dudley/hugo...since you can't beat my ken XD

KYLE: hey do you think gamelot would let me bring my dreamcast and hook it up in the back or something? i'm sure some plp would like to play some mvc2 lag free lol

Betty: i'll MM you for 1 dollar too vs my ken

 

[Bulkyvendor]

 

[dochimself]

wtf? is that obama's face on brocks body? W....O.....W...

 

[Kal]

We should set up MVC2 and SF:3S at this tourney. I'm trying to get into both games.

 

[K1T3]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155569

SA tourney, it's gonna start at 7 I think. People should come. Just from the store nubs that came it had about 20 last time. I'll do MM with anyone who shows up =)

Jose I'll do it if I'm there =)
Kyle we still have our mm to do.

 

[Hylian]

I am accepting MM's in brawl for any amount. Just ask me at the tournament.

 

[sos246]

I Will **** Anyone Silly At 3s And And Cvs2 Omg Wtf Y Are Cap's On!?!?!?

 

[Kal]

SoS, you have to teach me some 3s.

 

[The MC Clusky]

Well, I'm glad that this topic is finally back on talking about games, at the very least.

 

[Kal]

Honestly, Kyle, that comment makes me want to complain about FS1 some more.

 

[chickenwing2k2]

stuff....

just had to....couldn't help it

 

[G@BE]

Hylian MM at melee????? WAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

 

[Hylian]

Hylian MM at melee????? WAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

Sure.

10char

 

[Espy Rose]

I'll try my best to show up to this.

Hylian, how good are you at Brawl btw? I wan't to get in as much friendlies as possible.

I haven't played Melee since Brawl came out, but if I bother, I'll jump in the Melee tournament.

 

[Hylian]

I'll try my best to show up to this.

Hylian, how good are you at Brawl btw? I wan't to get in as much friendlies as possible.

I haven't played Melee since Brawl came out, but if I bother, I'll jump in the Melee tournament.

Im ok I guess...

Friendlies are fun.

 

[felix45]

how many people are coming to this? if it is big I might get lubbock ppl to go.


also projected pot? and housing maybe?

 

[PozerWolf]

Who is Kyle, and whats with this random drama about taking money.

With that said, I'm a bit worried about how the prize will be set.

Now for this part:
Brawl Singles:$15 per player ($12 dollars with a discount)

Just wondering why Brawl will be $15 to enter.
Is Brawl not expected as big of a turn out than Melee?

*snip*

You still owe me a money match ;(
I use snake too, and due to your Brawl knowledge, it should be an easy win... right?

 

[The MC Clusky]

Who is Kyle, and whats with this random drama about taking money.

With that said, I'm a bit worried about how the prize will be set.

Now for this part:
Brawl Singles:$15 per player ($12 dollars with a discount)

Just wondering why Brawl will be $15 to enter.
Is Brawl not expected as big of a turn out than Melee?



You still owe me a money match ;(
I use snake too, and due to your Brawl knowledge, it should be an easy win... right?

Kyle is my name >.<

I really don't understand why brawl singles went up like that, I talked to the owner about the venue fee thing as opposed to taking a percentage and this is what he came up with.

That said, does everyone wish for a cheaper singles event? (This of course, results in a smaller pot.)

I will need your input.

 

[forkgirl]

since you're asking, i guess my vote would be for a lower entry fee for brawl just because its so new. I don't know if people are willing to pay that much for the first tournament where pretty much no one knows where they stand. what about $10??

 

[PozerWolf]

Kyle is my name >.<

I really don't understand why brawl singles went up like that, I talked to the owner about the venue fee thing as opposed to taking a percentage and this is what he came up with.

That said, does everyone wish for a cheaper singles event? (This of course, results in a smaller pot.)

I will need your input.

What does the venue fee have to do with the amount payed to enter the game?
I mean, it is going straight to the prize pot, right?

As forkgirl stated, why not go for a $10 fee?