Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[~ Gheb ~]

I've seen the same stances from like 3 or 4 other players in this game as well. That alone makes your stances incredibly week.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Of course I can't edit this incredibly silly typo *smh*

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Really now Gheb? You know there is NOTHING I can do to fight that logic. What if I simply reached the same conclusions?

It's not even a parrot per se, I mean, Sword analyzed the entire game. You can see without a doubt that we thought about it for ourselves.

I can see where you're coming from, but you're using goggles. Could it simply be that

1. Ryker is good at scumhunting
2. Legolas is good at scumhunting
3. [Nicholas/Tblock] does something scummy

-> They both find it Nich/Tblock scummy

In some situations I'd agree with your logic, but not in this one.

Hell, I think I was the first to call Nickel town confidently. I never joined the Ryker/Raziek doubt that I think I remember reading a while ago. With regards to you, I don't remember that many stances given.

I repeat

Really now Gheb? You know there is NOTHING I can do to fight that logic.

 

[Inferno3044]

Aw, you know what?

Here! This is for you.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0skqbMDes8P

I just died. LMFAO!!! Ryker's going in.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright, let's remove all the fluff and insults and see what Ryker has to say.

To the tune of Yankee Doodle. Here we go:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

Nich ten-two-four, he is scum.
This is what he's shown me.



Dodge a question yet again,
and ignored the point did he.

Nich ten-two-four keep it up,
Nich ten-two-four, buddy.

Mind the WIFOM and the spin
And with insults be handy.

E.E. and I have watched your play.
Quite frankly you are slacking.



Took three points and summed them up
Your strawman, it is lacking.

Nich ten-two-four keep it up,
Nich ten-two-four, buddy.

Mind the WIFOM and the spin
And with insults be handy.



Careful what you're doing, Nich.
I'm not the liar here, son.

I call your bluff, you cannot win.
You'd best learn when you are done.

Nich ten-two-four keep it up,
Nich ten-two-four, buddy.

Mind the WIFOM and the spin
And with insults be handy.



You know you like to double back.
What was your intention?

Here you say your case was fake,
But this is worth a mention.



Nich ten-two-four keep it up,
Nich ten-two-four, buddy.

Mind the WIFOM and the spin
And with insults be handy.

In short, maybe 20% of this reply is actually relevant, the rest of it is just complete fluff. And notice that parts that are relevant aren't actually substantiated. In short, this is just Ryker going "You liar, you point dodger, you straw manner, die." I've completely lost respect for anyone who can treat this as a legitimate reply.

@Gheb
What do you think of Ryker's "response"?

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

 

[Nicholas1024]

Really now Gheb? You know there is NOTHING I can do to fight that logic. What if I simply reached the same conclusions?

It's not even a parrot per se, I mean, Sword analyzed the entire game. You can see without a doubt that we thought about it for ourselves.

Where's the in detail results of this analysis? I'd like to see how genuine it is. Although I've been at Gheb's throat the entire game, I think he has a point, there's no real proof that you've been scum hunting here. What do you think of Nickel, now that he's posted his reads? I think we can both agree that his reads aren't top-quality scum hunting, but the only one you questioned was his read on you (and Ryker as it related to you). This is definitely odd, since you stressed that you wanted detail and that you'd question every null to make sure he had good reasoning. What's your opinion on him now?

I can see where you're coming from, but you're using goggles. Could it simply be that

1. Ryker is good at scumhunting
2. Legolas is good at scumhunting
3. [Nicholas/Tblock] does something not scummy

-> They both find it Nich/Tblock scummy

In some situations I'd agree with your logic, but not in this one.

Since Ryker's such a good player, I'm allowed to just go "You liar, bad players always sheep" and assume your motive is scummy, right?

More to the point, although the above is possible, there isn't evidence for it yet. You need to give in depth evidence of why you find your scum reads scummy to prove that you're scum hunting rather than shipping.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Since Ryker's such a good player, I'm allowed to just go "You liar, bad players always sheep" and assume your motive is scummy, right?

Realized this bit might not be clear, what I'm doing is mocking how that's what Ryker's doing to me, and that if I were to use that logic I could paint Lego as scum.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Where's the in detail results of this analysis? I'd like to see how genuine it is.

Just read my ****ing posts.

Although I've been at Gheb's throat the entire game, I think he has a point, there's no real proof that you've been scum hunting here.

Just read my ****ing posts.

What do you think of Nickel, now that he's posted his reads?

Just read my ****ing posts.

I think we can both agree that his reads aren't top-quality scum hunting, but the only one you questioned was his read on you (and Ryker as it related to you). This is definitely odd, since you stressed that you wanted detail and that you'd question every null to make sure he had good reasoning.

He had only 1 null, who hasn't posted much if anything at all.

What's your opinion on him now?

Just read my ****ing posts.

Since Ryker's such a good player, I'm allowed to just go "You liar, bad players always sheep" and assume your motive is scummy, right?

Just read my ****ing posts.

More to the point, although the above is possible, there isn't evidence for it yet.

Are you ****ing with me?

You need to give in depth evidence of why you find your scum reads scummy to prove that you're scum hunting rather than shipping.

I'll discuss with my other half. I don't know how we wanna do this without being too redundant though.


You criticize Ryker's self preservationist play, but as soon as you see a bad push, you latch on to it so you don't get lynched and survive.

Gheb has been pushing through exaggeration, that much is obvious by now. I'd normally not say things like this, but if it's necessary to put you in your place, then I will.
Gheb's logic can't be taken down, like I said TWO TIMES in my post. You're latching on to it like a ******. I'd almost say that Gheb baited you into making this dumb push to seal your fate, but that's up to Gheb to say.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Someone's awfully defensive. I wasn't saying Gheb's logic was the only possibility, but it is a valid possibility, and you haven't shown enough scum hunting on your own to prove that you're not just being a sheep. It's also possible you have been scum hunting, just not proven. So tell me, why are you so worried and defensive because of such a simple statement?

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Wait which statement was I getting defensive over?

 

[Nicholas1024]

To be more specific, I know you've said you think Nickel is town, but I want to know why you think he's town, since he hasn't done much.

And you were getting defensive over my statement that although it's possible you've scum hunted, Gheb does have a point that you could be sheeping here.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

To be more specific, I know you've said you think Nickel is town, but I want to know why you think he's town, since he hasn't done much.

He's sincerely scumhunting. It's sincere and it shows that he's been trying. I know how a noobscum looks, and he's not one. Call it a gut, I guess?

And you were getting defensive over my statement that although it's possible you've scum hunted, Gheb does have a point that you could be sheeping here.

Because the logic is just aggravating. It's more aggravation than defensiveness :/

 

[Nicholas1024]

Right...

Anyway, would you care to link Sword's catch up and analysis post? If you're really that aggravated by the accusation that you haven't scum hunted, linking to some of your past scum hunting (that doesn't relate to the whole me/Gheb thing) would be the best way to do it.

 

[Overswarm]

Ryker - Red Ryu,
Nicholas1024- Legolas, Ryker, MOD
Red Ryu- Rajam,
Rajam - NickelbackR0cks, Glyph, Raziek, Inferno3044,
Gheb- Nicholas1024,
Legolas - MOD
Inferno - T-block,
T-block - Gheb,

Gova, Seph,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is February 17th at 3:00 PM EST

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I didn't push anybody into anything. Who cares if you have "nothing to beat my logic". You're not supposed to "beat" my logic. I just expected you to have more genuine stances than just the same old everybody else already seems to agree on anyway. But you don't and therefore I don't like the way you're playing so far.

I don't even know why you're making such a big deal about it ... if anything you're the one who's pushing people into a pointless argument.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb
What do you think of Ryker's "response"?

Nothing that dramatically changes my read on Ryker. I still think he can't be trusted and wish more people would start to question his motives.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The 4 people who are sitting on Rajam like all Day already may please stop wasting our time now and use their votes to do something.

Such as pressuring freeblock.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

I just expected you to have more genuine stances than just the same old everybody else already seems to agree on anyway. But you don't and therefore I don't like the way you're playing so far.

Elaborate on the relation between genuine and different.

That is to say, you're saying my stances aren't genuine because they are similar to others.

 

[Nicholas1024]

The 4 people who are sitting on Rajam like all Day already may please stop wasting our time now and use their votes to do something.

This, until he catches up and posts something those votes aren't doing much.

Such as pressuring freeblock.

But not this.

@Lego
FYI, Gheb was saying you didn't have genuine stances ASIDE from the ones on me/T-block/etc that half the game shares.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Elaborate on the relation between genuine and different.

I said more genuine than the stuff we've already heard from 3 other people. You're not giving any of that and I don't like that. Gogdammit.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why not pressure T-Block?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Why not pressure T-Block?

Why are you pressuring T-block in the first place? The main reason I've seen is because he's more or less affiliated with me and also pressured Nickel, and it'd be highly hypocritical if I were to pressure him on those grounds. The fact is, it was a small amount of pressure just out of RVS on someone who'd been posting a little but not contributing, and I don't see why people find that scummy.

 

[Nicholas1024]

What was I supposed to do, ignore Gheb's accusations? I'm not Ryker. What part of my response seemed bad to you?

Considering Rajam's an easy target (and disliked by a good number of people), and half the playerlist wants me dead, would you agree that your pushes this game have been opportunistic?

Inferno, why haven't you answered this? I don't like how you've been ignoring my questions here.

 

[Inferno3044]

Sorry overlooked it. I barely even pushed you. I just stated I didn't like you and I would be fine with you as a lynch target. I guess if you want to call my vote on Rajam, you can. Point is that atm I want him dead the most. Gonna reread because there's someone who my gut doesn't really like.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why are you pressuring T-block in the first place?

The main reason I've seen is because he's more or less affiliated with me and also pressured Nickel, and it'd be highly hypocritical if I were to pressure him on those grounds. The fact is, it was a small amount of pressure just out of RVS on someone who'd been posting a little but not contributing, and I don't see why people find that scummy.

Look it up if you don't know. I'm not Ryker either - if there are reasons I post them.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

unvote vote: T-block

Rajam I'll come back for you one day, I promise

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Glyph confirmed town.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alright, let's remove all the fluff and insults and see what Ryker has to say.



In short, maybe 20% of this reply is actually relevant, the rest of it is just complete fluff. And notice that parts that are relevant aren't actually substantiated. In short, this is just Ryker going "You liar, you point dodger, you straw manner, die." I've completely lost respect for anyone who can treat this as a legitimate reply.

@Gheb
What do you think of Ryker's "response"?

Wow. Are you that dense? It's not like I quoted everything at the relevant points to show that you yet again avoided the point of Gheb's statement, strawmanned three unique points, and double back on whether or not your original case was faked.

I really liked that you tried to steamroll over it though. Keep it up. Make my job easier.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Wow. Are you that dense? It's not like I quoted everything at the relevant points to show that you yet again avoided the point of Gheb's statement, strawmanned three unique points, and double back on whether or not your original case was faked.

I really liked that you tried to steamroll over it though. Keep it up. Make my job easier.

lol what? 80% of your post was fluff, and the other 20% was just quoting a thing and saying "You liar/strawmanner/point dodger" without explaining why. I don't need to reply in depth to that, because there's nothing in depth to reply to. The entire thing was just one giant "NO U!"

@Gheb
Really? Didn't you just get on Ryker for using the "He agrees with me so he's town" logic?

 

[Raziek]

Posting to let you guys know I can't really touch this till Tuesday night, procrastinated an assignment worth 16% of my grade.

Back later.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

lol what? 80% of your post was fluff, and the other 20% was just quoting a thing and saying "You liar/strawmanner/point dodger" without explaining why. I don't need to reply in depth to that, because there's nothing in depth to reply to. The entire thing was just one giant "NO U!"

@Gheb
Really? Didn't you just get on Ryker for using the "He agrees with me so he's town" logic?

Correction. 60% of my post was obviously chorus. That's kinda what happens when you write a song for someone. The rest however, addresses the holes in your defense that you just ignore.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Correction. 60% of my post was obviously chorus. That's kinda what happens when you write a song for someone. The rest however, addresses the holes in your defense that you just ignore.

Strawman, point dodging.


Is the above completely useless and barely qualifying for the term of "argument"? Yes. That plus half a dozen paragraphs of fluff = your song. Without a little evidence explaining why the accusations are true, you're just engaging in name calling.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

>Insinuating lyrics as paragraphs.
>Ignores contradiction in his summary.

Why don't you humor me and try to figure out what I could possibly have meant?

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'm going to just put any arguments you toss against me on ignore unless other people want me to answer them, since there's no point in further elaborating on your stupidity at the moment.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

You know what

I've had juuuust about enough of this mess

Hellcry Punch: Nicholas1024

Nighty night

 

[Nicholas1024]

So... was I just dayvigged or is that something else entirely?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Nah, Hellcry Punch is more of a love tap

(lol u ded)

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oh, and a heads up, the day ends when I use it champ so if you're going to want to actually help us (assuming you're not scum that is) then you're going to want to jump on that right now

 

[Nicholas1024]

In case that was a vigilante shot, I'd better give my final thoughts.

Gheb I no longer see as my #1 target, but I still think he's rather scummy. I've gone over the specifics before, but I do think interactions not related to me, T-block, or Nickel feel somewhat townie. On the other hand, his actions w.r.t. me/T-block feel very bad. For instance, after (rightfully) calling out Ryker for using the "He agrees with me so he's town" logic, he then claims Glyph is confirmed town for voting T-block.

Ryker would be my number 1 lynch choice at the moment, and there's a few simple reasons why.

1. It's far scummier to agree with a bad case than it is to make a bad case. Basically, whenever a bad wagon progresses, scum is almost always involved, and they usually join in the middle to avoid heat. Ryker fits this profile so far, as he was the third person to go after me, which is his main contribution to this game (aside from a few shots at T-block later on when he became a fashionable target).

2. When Gheb argued with me, he'd address my entire argument and keep things in context, even if I felt his answers were bad. Ryker on the other hand started by taking half a dozen quotes, stripping the context, picking out the bits he felt were easiest to twist, and then calling it a case. You can see my first big reply to him for more details on that. Also, his little song looks impressive at first glance, but in reality the only content there is roughly three lines of name calling without explaining how the accusations apply. In short, he's using a very dishonest style of argument to show a highly distorted version of my play instead of the whole picture.

3. If Gheb's mistaken town, then he can still be useful later on, although his recent play hasn't been stellar, I trust he's still capable of reevaluating things and making coherent arguments. What's Ryker going to do aside from act high and mighty while tossing around insults?

Anyway, some other things that stick out at me...

Nickel's flying under the radar. His reads post was very minimal details-wise, and I think there's a good chance he's scum. He'd be better vigilante fodder than lynch material, but don't let him slip through unnoticed.

Similarly, keep an eye on Inferno and Lego. I can't recall either of them having taken an unpopular stance, and they doesn't seem to push much on their own. Nothing concrete here, but I don't trust either.

Assuming Glyph's telling the truth, I suppose he's near confirmed. If he's faking the shot, then I applaud him for the play, give him a lot more credit for intelligence, and still think he's townie.

Might have more, but I want to make sure I get this out there in time.