Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[Orboknown]

Alright. Now why is that scummy? What was the profit a scum would have? What was the intent a scum would have?

It's simply RVS, so taking it too serious isn't always fruitful. That's my explanation. Rajam is one of the best policy lynches on dGames at that, so why not start out with pressuring somewhere where it can be put to use?

Having a free pass by someone who is actually good when he is playing isn't good for scum?Guess i learned the wrong ideas then from reading.
I can agree with the second paragraph though, pressure on an inactive usually gets results.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

finding someone misconstruing in an attempt to paint someone as scum is a far-fetched method of scumhunting? what the hell game are you playing?

ryker, i'd like you to respond to this point as well please

If you would like, I can help you locate a fire to go die in.

It's more of your politician speak that needs to stop now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes. Is that question supposed to be a hidden trap or intentionally painfully obvious?

C'mon. When I try and get to the heart of your actions, I get no answer.

What was the point of your question?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Eh, true enough, but irrelevant. The "nobody else" bit is an exaggeration on my part, but if "Other people are doing it too" is your only argument, that's pretty scummy. D1 in Megaman X mafia I picked out Circus for being on a bad wagon in a similar manner. Anyone want to guess what he flipped? (Hint: It starts with S, and rhymes with "come".)

Not irrelevant. Are you mental?

The "nobody else" bit is an exaggeration on my part, but if "Other people are doing it too" is your only argument, that's pretty scummy.

STOP SPINNING EVERYTHING!

The original point was that YOU picked out Nickle FOR SELECTIVE REASONS! No one was defending Nickel. You keep twisting Gheb's post into some monstrosity.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Right. Because clearly the best scum play is to do something highly visible that everyone will see and comment on, plus many will disagree with. As a bonus you'll even get a decent chance of people starting a wagon on you, which is clearly what every mafia member needs. Lots of open information, plenty of clear stances, this is definitely the best game plan for anti-town factions. </sarcasm>

Yes. Yes it is. It's also the best play not to do that. It's all WIFOM and you will not be supplementing your defense with a paragraph like this.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You're making EXACTLY the same mistake I saw from you in your very first game, Gheb. You apply Occam's Razor to a ridiculous extent, cutting out many feasible possibilities in favor of what the most straight-forward brain-dead players would do.

But that's how you're supposed to read bad players like yourself!!!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not to mention, I've been focusing a lot on OS's play recently to the point of paranoia, and let me inform you that he does that kind of thing all the time, and it WORKS. Consider that we'd had little aside from setup discussion up to that point, the amount of discussion that one of my cases ALWAYS produces, and suddenly my "WIFOM" motive is rather plausible.

No. It's not any more plausible. Saying "it's all part of my master plan" is, more often than not, an excuse to justify it after the fact. No. You're setting yourself up in a win-win scenario.

If they buy it, I get to run a wagon on the newbie. If they don't, I back-pedal out of it and no harm, no foul.

You need to have a goal and visible results in order to try that strategy as town. You don't as scum. That's what you're missing.

Take it from an expert.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What I meant is that scared to the point you're describing is just completely and hilariously unlikely. You never answered my point on that, just what kind of pressure prevents a townie from giving reads when doing that would stop the pressure?!?



Psst, Gheb. You know what people often do in RVS? They focus on small stuff and pretend it's significant to get discussion going, and then base some reads off of said discussion. What part of you can't accept that that just MIGHT be a feasible explanation for what I was doing?!?

And I'm attacking you because your defense of Nickel (That he's scared and because the pressure is you know, PRESSURING him that I should stop doing it and there's other people that aren't scum-hunting so it's not fair to pick on him) is absolute garbage, and your attack on me doesn't make sense either. You claim to be so worried about Nickel being scared and frightened out of giving reads... why haven't you talked to him directly, given him some advice and boosted his confidence instead of just yelling at me? One would think that that would take care of the problem far more effectively. No, this strikes me as the actions of someone who knows Nickel's alignment, and is either trying to protect their scum buddy, or set me up to look bad when he gets mislynched.

And you called me out on pushing really hard on small stuff. That's usually what people mean when they accuse me of tunneling. Also, I don't tunnel blindly any more. Say what you will about my play style, but recently I've been getting results. I've made mistakes (going after T-block in time travelers), but I've refocused and caught scum. If you want to compare play quality, recently I've gotten the upper hand.

TLDR:
(Seriously guys, this isn't that long, and I would appreciate it if you'd read all of my posts. But for the Rykers out there...)

1. Gheb claims Nickel is scared and that pressuring him for reads will somehow prevent him from giving reads. This has no thread of logic to it at all.

2. Instead of reassuring Nickel and giving him some advice, which would be the logical solution to a lack of confidence, Gheb instead decides to attack me and insult me for pushing him. Now keep in mind that Gheb knows my meta. Just how often does an attack + insults actually change my mind on an issue? Usually it just makes me more determined.

3. Considering that my push started in semi-RVS, and wasn't even a hard push (by my standards anyway), as well as all the discussion it generated (which I knew from the outset would happen), believing I'm scum for said push doesn't make much sense, particularly when that is something I do as town pretty frequently.

4. Therefore, I conclude that Gheb's actions weren't because he was honestly worried about Nickel-town reacting badly OR because he really thinks I'm scum. No, I'm sure he knows Nickel's alignment. Whether he's trying to save a scum buddy or look good while destroying my credibility in the event of a mislynch, I'm not sure. But I've tried the possible townie motivations, and none of them fit.

@Inferno
Thanks for the info, by the way. In my early play it was the opposite, although I was pretty outspoken as newbie town, I was fairly timid as scum and tried to avoid the spotlight as much as possible (and that is what I generally see. Not that town can't be pressured, but getting the kind of pressure Gheb's suggesting out of two votes on a townie just doesn't happen.) Care to give your opinion on Gheb?

http://z0r.de/196

All you're doing is spinning. No one is defending Nickel. Everyone is examining your motive for pressuring Nickel and finding it lacking.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I think Gheb's an *******, but probably town. Disagree with the Nich scum read, he seems more frustrated town than cornered scum to me.

Haven't come across anything I'd deem significant enough to push for scum yet, only little things that could come into play later. For now I still stand by my previous stance of picking off a bad player.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm gonna have to neighborize Raz.

Glyph can die.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Ryker, when will I know what you're trying to accomplish here?

 

[Orboknown]

Advance warning- i will95% sure not be n tomorrow, so questions n stuff answered monday/tuesday.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

tbh, i can't remember why you were on my case in TT, and i sure as hell ain't gonna reread that game. the part about our interaction i remember more is me tunneling the **** out of you for a pretty blatant contradiction.

in this case, though, i can see where you're coming from. i like this sentence in particular: "You apply Occam's Razor to a ridiculous extent, cutting out many feasible possibilities in favor of what the most straight-forward brain-dead players would do", and i'm getting somewhat of an opportunistic feel from the way he's pushing you. i also agree that he is overinflating the fear that pressure on nickel is anti-town. you can count on my vote here.

question for you though - what are your thoughts on ryker?

That is hands down one of the WORST lines of a terrible post.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

well... "why are you being so open" is obviously rhetorical... i wasn't expecting an actual answer to that. "so much effort" comes from the fact that you actually bothered to make a post just to defend him.

So,... you wanted to ask a question posed in a way to make Raz look bad, but you didn't want a response as to why it was happening?

By the way, that question is rhetorical.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

not really liking inferno atm

pretty much every push he's made this game has been pretty opportunistic

vote: Inferno

Huh, well that's convenient.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I was more or less asking whether you thought my case was justified or if I needed a reality check, since I trust your judgement ATM.


My read on him at the moment is basically null jerk. He's playing pretty similar to how he usually plays, with plenty of insults and not much explanation, and although I think it's really anti-town, it doesn't make him scum.

@Ryker, Raziek, Inferno, Lego
Since you're all either voting me or have expressed an interest in doing so, explain in your own words with detail why you think I am scum.

@Raziek
How has my play this game not matched my meta, and what about my case on Gheb doesn't sit well with you?

@Inferno
You didn't answer, how was my pressure on Nickel scummy?

@Ryker
Scum reads, please. With more detail than "This guy can die" for one post that annoyed you.

@Lego
How has Nickel's delay in giving reads affected your read on him? Any other notable reads you have to share?

@OS
Next game, could you reserve a less common emphasis color than red for mod use? Might reduce the number of mod votes floating around.

Since Gheb started on you, you've done little to nothing to progress the game and have instead been worried about your *** to the exclusion of all else. This post shows it alll.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nich I can tell you now that you're not exactly rallying the troops to your side by trying to act like Ryker's play hasn't been justified.

You said earlier that you thought Gheb was town, BUT THAT NICH WAS SIMPLY "frustrated town!"

What caused the about face since it's now justified.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Thinking your play was justified isn't the same as agreeing with everything you say hombre. And you should still neighbor me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And everyone I've asked to explain their reasoning for voting me (except Gheb) has ignored/refused to answer at least once. Perhaps I should've given you a little more time before pressing, but this is getting really annoying, I can't defend myself against "Oh yeah, he's scummy", and there's not much point to making another long answer to Gheb that you guys probably won't read (I think I made the last post in that anyway, actually). I'm pretty confident that there's one (perhaps more) scum on my wagon, but this game is seriously looking like a repeat of Fire Emblem here.

Anyway, I wasn't hinting at anything wrt Nickel. I wanted to get a read on you via your response, since it would likely illuminate your thought process for me, since you've focused a fair bit on Nickel. But of course nobody's willing to give me the time of day this game, which makes it kind of hard to get meaningful questions answered.

@Evil Eye, Vanderzant, J, anyone else competent
Namesearch this and replace in please. The incompetence levels of this town are rapidly approaching 9000.

EE thinks you're scummy too.

Explain what you mean by "repeat of Fire Emblem" so I can insult you.

Who are the scum on your wagon and why are they scum? You're throwing out that threat to try and get people to back off a little.

Nice, AtE everywhere, btw.

P.S. - An over 9000 joke? Really?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If that were to happen, I'd reevaluate the game and see where I went wrong. But let's just say that neither the track records or reasoning of the players questioning me are good enough to make me doubt my stances.

Here you say you're sticking to your guns, however, THROUGHOUT THE GAME YOU'VE BEEN SAYING STUFF LIKE THE FOLLOWING:

"Maybe I was a little premature."

or blatantly contradicting your current post by saying

"It was just to get a reaction. It was all part of my master plan."

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, when will I know what you're trying to accomplish here?

I'm accomplishing catching up.

Know that Nich is getting lynched toDay in all likelihood. Short of that, it's T-Block. One of them is scum, almost certainly.

I have some more concrete reads, but no reason to give them out at the moment. You're still getting the list via the posts I've already, just not the order of preference.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alright Nich, I'm caught up and you have all the points you've been whining for.

I'm going to go eat and play Smash. Here's your one chance to convince me to lynch T-Block instead. I'd suggest reanalyzing his play and trying to steer me that way.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Ugh, Ryker, please be less dumb or scum. You're taking bits and pieces out of a series of replies that you can twist and take out of context, and then pretending that's my entire argument.

Anyway, I'm going to address this once and for all.

The case against me:

1: That my push on Nickel was bad.
2: That my push on Gheb was bad.
3: That I haven't done anything aside from 1 and 2.

Here's the answers to those.

A1: The push was JUST OUT OF RVS, people. It's primary purpose was to generate content, both from Nickel, and hopefully other people commenting. It did what it was designed to do, and you'll notice I haven't been pursuing it since. As far as me being "selective" in picking Nickel, I've given my reasoning (he said a couple odd things that stuck out at me, and then continued posting without content).

A2: We've walled back and forth over this one. In short, Gheb's defense of Nickel/attack on me felt fake.

A3: If you haven't noticed, the case on me is kinda dominating the discussion right now. I have talked about other things, but my case and the people on it are the major point for today. And I find it hilariously hypocritical that I'm being called out on self-preservation from the guy who led a lynch on someone HE DIDN'T EVEN FIND SCUMMY to save his own neck in Megaman X mafia.

More detailed responses shortly, but for those who don't feel like wading through Ryker's crap, consider this the TLDR.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ugh, Ryker, please be less dumb or scum. You're taking bits and pieces out of a series of replies that you can twist and take out of context, and then pretending that's my entire argument.

Vote me, come on. Seal your fate with a third terrible push.

I don't care about your series of replies. I'm not the one who needed to deal with them. I did, however, look at everything you've posted in this game and pulled out the pieces that make your alignment evident.

In order to call strawman like you're attempting to do, you're going to have to dig through and find examples and SHOW how I'm taking it out of context and causing you to look worse for it.

Here's a hint, all I did was highlight the problems with your play, so you won't be finding jack ****.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'm seriously thinking about it, Ryker. The problem is that I know you play this terribly as town, so it's hard to tell whether you're scum, an idiot, or both.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Anyway, I'm going to address this once and for all.

OH NO YOU DON'T! You're not sweeping this under the rug like that irrelevant comment I've already pointed out. You *****ed and moaned for it, you're responding to it.

The case against me:

1: That my push on Nickel was bad.
2: That my push on Gheb was bad.
3: That I haven't done anything aside from 1 and 2.

Here's the answers to those.

A1: The push was JUST OUT OF RVS, people. It's primary purpose was to generate content, both from Nickel, and hopefully other people commenting. It did what it was designed to do, and you'll notice I haven't been pursuing it since. As far as me being "selective" in picking Nickel, I've given my reasoning (he said a couple odd things that stuck out at me, and then continued posting without content).

A2: We've walled back and forth over this one. In short, Gheb's defense of Nickel/attack on me felt fake.

A3: If you haven't noticed, the case on me is kinda dominating the discussion right now. I have talked about other things, but my case and the people on it are the major point for today. And I find it hilariously hypocritical that I'm being called out on self-preservation from the guy who led a lynch on someone HE DIDN'T EVEN FIND SCUMMY to save his own neck in Megaman X mafia.

More detailed responses shortly, but for those who don't feel like wading through Ryker's crap, consider this the TLDR.

THIS IS NOT TL;DR

A1.) I don't believe you. Plain and simple. That wasn't your intention.
A2.) It wasn't. Doesn't look fake. And was you trying to get out of jail.
A3.) Do you believe that self-preservational play is scummy?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm seriously thinking about it, Ryker. The problem is that I know you play this terribly as town, so it's hard to tell whether you're scum, an idiot, or both.

I was serious when I said EE thinks you're scummy.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright, collapsed stuff is minor points, stuff I left expanded are more important things.

Spoiler

Not irrelevant. Are you mental?

Here's the chain of events.

1. Gheb mentions I'm selective in picking out Nickel for not scumhunting.
2. I say that "Nobody else is scum hunting" is hardly a valid defense.
3. Gheb points out that some people were scum hunting, just not everyone.
4. Although that is true, it's more or less irrelevant to the original point, since "Other people aren't scum hunting either" is still a bad defense.


STOP SPINNING EVERYTHING!

The original point was that YOU picked out Nickle FOR SELECTIVE REASONS! No one was defending Nickel. You keep twisting Gheb's post into some monstrosity.[/QUOTE]

http://z0r.de/196

All you're doing is spinning. No one is defending Nickel. Everyone is examining your motive for pressuring Nickel and finding it lacking.

You know, attacking the main guy attacking Nickel FOR pressuring Nickel is fairly similar to a defense of Nickel. Especially since the pressure was me saying "Post something useful", and you can't exactly go "No, he shouldn't have to be useful."

No. It's not any more plausible. Saying "it's all part of my master plan" is, more often than not, an excuse to justify it after the fact. No. You're setting yourself up in a win-win scenario.

If they buy it, I get to run a wagon on the newbie. If they don't, I back-pedal out of it and no harm, no foul.

You need to have a goal and visible results in order to try that strategy as town. You don't as scum. That's what you're missing.

Take it from an expert idiot.

Here's what Ryker's saying throughout these posts. That I should always be assumed to have the most straightforwards and scummy intention, and no other possibilities are to be even considered. I've pointed out all these surrounding circumstances regarding how it being a vote for pressure and to create content makes far more sense than it being a vote with intent to lynch, and his response is literally "Nope, you're not that smart, you're scum."

Since Gheb started on you, you've done little to nothing to progress the game and have instead been worried about your *** to the exclusion of all else. This post shows it alll.

This is a lie. To put it bluntly, me vs Gheb has been THE major factor in progressing the game. Yes, I'm focused on it, that's because it's the main thing to focus on. I also comment on other stuff that's happening, so there's just no grain of truth to this whatsoever.

Spoiler

EE thinks you're scummy too.

Explain what you mean by "repeat of Fire Emblem" so I can insult you.

Who are the scum on your wagon and why are they scum? You're throwing out that threat to try and get people to back off a little.

Nice, AtE everywhere, btw.

P.S. - An over 9000 joke? Really?

I'm not entirely sure yet where the scum are. That's why I'm questioning people regarding their motives for voting me, so I can figure it out.

Here you say you're sticking to your guns, however, THROUGHOUT THE GAME YOU'VE BEEN SAYING STUFF LIKE THE FOLLOWING:

"Maybe I was a little premature."

or blatantly contradicting your current post by saying

"It was just to get a reaction. It was all part of my master plan."

There is only ONE THING that I've been claiming had a hidden intent, and that was my pressure on Nickel, which should be fairly obvious that it had another purpose to anyone with a passing familiarity with mafia. If you want to make these claims, put them in quotes with context.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

To the tune of Yankee Doodle. Here we go:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

Nich ten-two-four, he is scum.
This is what he's shown me.

Here's what Ryker's saying throughout these posts. That I should always be assumed to have the most straightforwards and scummy intention, and no other possibilities are to be even considered. I've pointed out all these surrounding circumstances regarding how it being a vote for pressure and to create content makes far more sense than it being a vote with intent to lynch, and his response is literally "Nope, you're not that smart, you're scum."

Took three points and summed them up
Your strawman, it is lacking.

Nich ten-two-four keep it up,
Nich ten-two-four, buddy.

Mind the WIFOM and the spin
And with insults be handy.

It's not about what he's saying, it's about what he ISN'T saying. That is to say, there's no scum hunting. Just take a look at his posts from #48 onwards, and keep in mind that both T-block and I are specifically asking for a little scum hunting. And besides, it's not like my "bullying" could lessen his contributions any in the first place.

Nich ten-two-four keep it up,
Nich ten-two-four, buddy.

Mind the WIFOM and the spin
And with insults be handy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgHmT38gp8

For those of you who need an instrumental.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Aw, you know what?

Here! This is for you.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0skqbMDes8P

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, read on Lego?

Do not like. He's not taking any real stances so far ... idk how much that means considering the little input of Rajam, Glyph or Red Ryu we're getting atm but I think he's kind of adding to the shortage of activity. Whatever the reasons for that may be [I'm assuming it's the conflicting "play styles" of Xonar and Sworddancer that make it hard for them to adjust to each other] I really wish they'd start getting shit done or else I'm going to throw him into my "Vig fodder"-drawer.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ryker, us two also have remarkably similar reads. That's definitely out of the ordinary and makes me wary of you. From my point of view it also seems that you're going with the "same reads = same side" mentality, which I never found reliable or played with much of a pro-town intention. You not questioning anything about me so far is a rare sight ... don't think I'm not aware of that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The Question for toDay: Who out of Nich, Raz and T-Block is / are the scumbag?

Would like to hear an answer on that. Especially the people who have been sharing my opinions so far [which seems to be the majority of the people].

Vote T-Block

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, us two also have remarkably similar reads. That's definitely out of the ordinary and makes me wary of you. From my point of view it also seems that you're going with the "same reads = same side" mentality, which I never found reliable or played with much of a pro-town intention. You not questioning anything about me so far is a rare sight ... don't think I'm not aware of that.

I don't care about you. That's the long and short of it. You're not getting in my way. You're not on my scum list. You're no concern of mine. You are a town read. I need very little outside of what you're giving voluntarily.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Do not like. He's not taking any real stances so far ...

BULL****.

Spoiler

So basically, to answer Raz's question, our top two town picks right now would be Gheb, Raz, and Ryker, for the reasons you can see in our posts.

Our main scumpick would be Nich (as explained above). Nich started off alright to me, and I could even see town intent in how he was asking people about specific stuff, but then he got into the argument with Gheb and he just started making some hardcore reaches plus wierd defense that I just didn't like. He can lean scum.

My other half didn't like TB and explained to me some legit reasons why (thought he was putting himself into a position where he didn't really have to do anything), but upon observation of recent events (TB's pressure on Raz and how that worked out) I'm questioning that. We're gonna have to talk again about this.

Both of us agree that Rajam is, as of now, policy lynch material. Also I think it's safe to say that Nick needs to speak up as well. Can't really get an accurate read on him until he does.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14058720&postcount=261
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14060438&postcount=275

idk how much that means considering the little input of Rajam, Glyph or Red Ryu we're getting atm but I think he's kind of adding to the shortage of activity. Whatever the reasons for that may be [I'm assuming it's the conflicting "play styles" of Xonar and Sworddancer that make it hard for them to adjust to each other] I really wish they'd start getting shit done or else I'm going to throw him into my "Vig fodder"-drawer.

It's the absence of one of my half. I don't want to throw stances out just to backpedal because my partner doesn't agree. I've thrown out what I can while he's gone.


I'm on one line with Ryker's scum-reads here on Nich and T-Block (and I think a large part of the game), but I know part of me is seeing it less evidently. Let's see if that changes once that part sees what Ryker did.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 315
User Name Posts
Ryker 66
Raziek 42
Nicholas1024 35
T-block 28
Gheb_01 25
NickelbackR0cks 22



Just saying. We gave a stance on all the active players, except T-Block, because slight disagreement and a lack of communication.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

On T-Block, this part is cool with offing him.

There we go. Stance. No whining Gheb, I've supplied you. Your false accusation is done, no excuse anymore.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

These aren't strong stances in the slightest.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Let's spell it out for you;

Nich is SCUM
T-Block is SCUM
Rajam needs to DIE before ENDGAME

Raziek is TOWN
Ryker is TOWN
Gheb is TOWN
Orbo is TOWN

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

And yes, those are from this half. You're demanding stances, I'll give it to you. Should Sword convince me otherwise, we'll post reasoning for it.