Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[Kantrip]

Well I'm probably not going to do that since I have no idea what that even entails

It basically entails whether or not Ryker or Raziek is scum, since one of them has to be lying. I can confirm that Ryker Jumped N1, so that already proves to me that Insult is a non-targeted ability. This confirms Raziek as the liar.

 

[Kantrip]

How the hell is he gonna suddenly quicklynch you? Do not like it.

With you on me I will for sure take 2 votes less to lynch. That equates to 1 vote to lynch in the worst case toMorrow, which means Raziek hammers me by putting down his vote.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Well thats convenient that you have information to prove the guy who's trying to lynch you is a liar.

Tell you what, why don't we lynch Raz first. I actually agree that him waiting to claim info THIS long when it so clearly spells out we've got scum is nigh impossible to swallow. If he flips town, boom, we lynch Kantrip. If HE flips town you guys can lynch me I guess since I'm probably the last scum according to Ryker

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

We could,... or we could lynch you and then them.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Well considering we know either Kantrip is scum or Raziek is scum, I really don't see how lynching me right now is an intelligent avenue to pursue.

 

[Kantrip]

It equates to the same thing, as long as Raziek is lynched before me. I have a feeling Ryker wants your ability for the Night to deal with the situation, Glyph.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

So explain why he was set on my lynch well before that then

 

[Kantrip]

He's been tunneling you, plain and simple. Frankly, I don't see what he sees. but that's what his ongoing promise to lay out the game was supposed to cover. The one we haven't gotten yet....

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

With you on me I will for sure take 2 votes less to lynch. That equates to 1 vote to lynch in the worst case toMorrow, which means Raziek hammers me by putting down his vote.

Ahhhhh.

Interesting.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Anyway, I'm going to do the dishes and then work on this game.

 

[Inferno3044]

Ryker stop being so stubborn on Glyph. We can deal with him later Assuming Raziek is telling the truth, Glyph isn't mafia. Personally I think that mafia is more important to find than indies since they have a NK. If you guys are REALLY skeptical of Raziek's claim and want proof, then lynch him if you really have to. If Raziek flips town, then we lynch Kantrip. If Raziek and Kantrip are town, we lynch Gova. I'm 100% by the information that one of them is scum.

@Raziek - I do agree that you should've outed this earlier so that a situation like this would be avoidable.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Inferno, lynching Glyph today is your only shot at winning should Raz/Kantrip scum not end the game.

 

[Inferno3044]

And why is that?

 

[Kantrip]

We're still getting Gova to attempt to hammer. We WILL verify his claim or have him condemned so I don't know why you're worried about him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

For the record, Raz isn't lying about having his abilities. He may or may not be lying about results. Unsure at this juncture. Reading the game helps me remember this.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And why is that?

Because Glyph will get you lynched over him. You're not persuasive and he is. In addition, you look scummy as ****.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

We're still getting Gova to attempt to hammer. We WILL verify his claim or have him condemned so I don't know why you're worried about him.

I have no desire to do this.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Having reread TBlock/Kantrip and early game Raz, I may wish to change the order in which they die (still after Glyph).

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Still reading.

 

[Rajam]

*sigh*

There comes a time when a man must play ALL his cards.

I fudged my claim a bit in hopes of nailing the final scum for certain before my death.

My ability is an Overswarm ability. By that, I mean frustrating as ****.

It's one ability, not two. I made up the names for what I claimed earlier. The actual ability is called "Observe". I crumbed this with my user title.

I pick two players. The first is tracked, the second is watched.

I have not lied about my targets.

What makes this ability so frustrating, but also why I'm certain Kantrip is scum, is that I receive the names of all the actions that took place between the interactions, but not who performed them or which visit they belonged to.

Essentially, I'm not valuable unless I survive until late in the game.

N1 I tracked Kantrip and watched Gheb, as I said.

Results:

Inferno -> Gheb
Gova -> Gheb
Kantrip -> Seph/Sang
Kantrip -> Ryker
Kantrip -> Legolas.

Abilities Involved:

Haste (Which is why I confirm Inferno as Town)
Protect (Gova)
Doom
Night Kill
Investigate

Kantrip IS scum and HAS a night kill.

Night 2, as I said, tracked Legolas and watched Ryker.

Results:

Legolas -> Inferno
Legolas -> Kantrip

Abilities Involved:
Dark Sword
Insult

Kantrip does not have Lionsguard Servitude. It simply doesn't exist. There's nobody else who could be responsible for the NK attempt Night 1. Whether he tried to kill Ryker or Lego is irrelevant.

My vote WILL NOT move. Inferno is Town, Glyph can wait, Kantrip is scum.

Why are you clearing Inferno based on this >_>

Inferno telling the truth about his target and name-action doesn't make him town.......

 

[Rajam]

Your intent doesn't line up at all. You had NO REASON to withhold this information if you always had it, which you evidently didn't. You fabricated this claim more recently than your original claim, or you would have outed it earlier.

I support this

Your ability saw Insult. Insult has been confirmed to not be a targeted ability, which means you can see non-target abilities. You watched Gheb N1 and yet you DIDN'T see the Execution which DID land on him.

You are lying.

+1

Xonar had no stone. 99% chance his wincon had to do with it.

Why would I have let the Ryu lynch go through D2 instead of yours if I was lyncher?

Because RR was caught lying?

Seriously Raziek, what are you doing...

 

[Rajam]

Ryker, why don't we lynch Raz and you can steal his ability? Then you can wifom scum by either jumping or using Raz's ability

Seriously, LAL, and I consider hiding/changing information from mass claims as lying

Glyph dropped to third lynch priority toDay.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

LAL would entail killing more than half the cast at this point and you will discard that incredibly inaccurate idea.

 

[Inferno3044]

Ryker tell me this. We obviously have a situation regarding Raziek and Kantrip and one of them is probably scum. So why is Glyph priority #1 for you? I highly doubt both of those 2 are town so we get rid of the scum between them and then deal with him assuming the game isn't over.

 

[Inferno3044]

Because RR was caught lying?

Seriously Raziek, what are you doing...

I think what Raziek is saying is that he would've been more persistent on Kantrip and put more pressure on him rather than have town try to lynch RR.

 

[Kantrip]

I think what Raziek is saying is that he would've been more persistent on Kantrip and put more pressure on him rather than have town try to lynch RR.

As warlock he doesn't always want to lynch me. That's why he's pushing me so hard toDay and never at any other times. ToDay is the Day where lynching me wins for him. Back when we lynched Red Ryu, he probably didn't know which player had the stone he had chosen.

 

[Raziek]

As warlock he doesn't always want to lynch me. That's why he's pushing me so hard toDay and never at any other times. ToDay is the Day where lynching me wins for him. Back when we lynched Red Ryu, he probably didn't know which player had the stone he had chosen.

How can you possibly use such a contrived situation as a defense? Indy Warlock? Really????

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

1.) Lynching them does us no good as far as my ability. Which may or may not be around in the future.
2.) Scum Glyph is going to continue eroding town's ability.
3.) Glyph is smart enough to wiggle out of his situation, that's not happening for anyone else.

 

[Kantrip]

How can you possibly use such a contrived situation as a defense? Indy Warlock? Really????

Can you think of a better purpose for these zodiac stones?

Besides, the main point is how hard you're lying here to get me lynched. I found a scenario that covers both this and the stones, but if there's a better explanation I'm open to it. You'll also have to explain why you didn't pick up the Execution, unless you caused it in which case I'll understand why you'd omit it of course.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I, GLYPH, HEREBY RENOUNCE ANY DESIRE AND OR WILL TO KEEP MYSELF ALIVE SO LONG AS YOU'RE NOT IDIOTS AND LYNCH RAZIEK OR KANTRIP TODAY

I WILL NOT USE MY CUNNING OR WILES TO CONVINCE YOU TO NOT LYNCH ME IF THIS IS DONE, AND IF I ATTEMPT TO DO OTHERWISE YOU SHOULD IGNORE IT ANY LYNCH ME ANYWAY.

There you go.

 

[Inferno3044]

I, GLYPH, HEREBY RENOUNCE ANY DESIRE AND OR WILL TO KEEP MYSELF ALIVE SO LONG AS YOU'RE NOT IDIOTS AND LYNCH RAZIEK OR KANTRIP TODAY

I WILL NOT USE MY CUNNING OR WILES TO CONVINCE YOU TO NOT LYNCH ME IF THIS IS DONE, AND IF I ATTEMPT TO DO OTHERWISE YOU SHOULD IGNORE IT ANY LYNCH ME ANYWAY.

There you go.

Talk to me Glyph. If you had the choice to kill either Raziek or Kantrip at this second who would you pick and why? No rereading.

 

[Rajam]

D2 stuff; this is after Inferno and Gova claimed and recognized they targeted Gheb with haste and Gova crumbed protection:

2. (:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX (Brosuke/Swordancer) [Legolas for short]

Ok. Despite all the crap thrown around, I have a Town read on this slot. While accidentally ****ing up Glyph vs. Gova was most decidedly anti-Town, it felt like a legitimate mistake to me. Glyph case was gross, but did yield something I'll get to later.

4. NickelbackR0cks [Orbo]

Leaning Scum. This is what Lego's bad Glyph case helped me get. His jump on the wagon in 921 was gross. When questioned about it, he claimed he felt Glyph "needed a fire under him". Unvoted at an appropriate time, but the way he joined the wagon bothered me.

5. Inferno3044

Contrary to what others seem to think, Inferno's haste (see what I did there?) to claim his result and fishing for who else visited gives me a distinctly Town vibe. Felt like he was genuinely thinking we could find scum. Outside of that vibe, his play has been lacking, and that bothers me, but I don't consider him in the lynch pool for today.

7. T-block Kantrip

Scummy scummy scum. Can't be more certain on this read. T-Block gave me a bad feel, Kantrip continues to give me a bad feel. Stretching to appear Town at every turn. Asked a lot of questions that led nowhere, reaching for points on the calculator thing, REALLY REACHING on claiming to have tried to kill Rajam. No soup for you.

8. Gova

Rescinding my earlier scum read on Gova. Gova vs. Glyph gave me Town vibes on both, has contributed more toDay. No longer in my lynch pool.

9. Red Ryu

Null, slight scum lean. Red Ryu needs to play this game more. As Gheb already pointed out, his case on Kantrip was bad. He hasn't really been involved in much else. Would lynch if elephants flew and my Kantrip scum read evaporated somehow and Orbo became a holy savior for mankind.

10. Rajam

Bothers me less now. Null, VERY Slight Town Lean. Questions have been odd, but distinctly directed in a way that is starting to make sense. Would lynch, but not before Kantrip or Orbo.

11. Seph Sangfroid Warrior

Brownie Townie. Agree with most everything she's said except her Kantrip stance.

12. Glyph

Town. Echoing much of Legolas' sentiment regarding the vibes received. Needs to stop lying about Hellcry punch, though.

Finally, Ryker and Gheb.

This is a difficult decision, because I have Town reads on both of these players. However, despite Ryker's somewhat dumb track record lately, I love him too much to let him die.

There are two main things that contrast to form the basis for why I'm making this choice.

Firstly, Ryker's push on D1 on Nich felt genuine to me. Ryker doesn't usually back off as Town, most recent example I have being UTrick'd 2 and the Acrostic quicklynch. The push is null at worst and gives me Town vibes.

I dislike the fact that he put me on the receiving end of the watcher claim, but I can see why he did so. Would have been nice to catch HIM in a lying position, but his motivations for having me go first were decidedly pro-Town.

What bothers me about Gheb is that he's said a lot of things, but followed up on very few of them. He opened the day saying "Kantrip lynch is fine, but look at Raz, Gova" and someone else, I forget who. However he hasn't really done any pushing of these himself.

My train of thought died off, as I think there was something else, .... right. While I can understand why, his insistence that people disregard night actions bothers me. While the situations are quite complex, to ignore them outright would be foolish, especially given that scum are going to take advantage of anything claimed to begin with.

That's all I have for the moment.

Vote: Kantrip
Execute: Gheb

Overall personal lynch priority:

Kantrip
Orbo
RR
Rajam

In that order.

Kantrip IS SCUM, trust ME.

:E

Like, unless you've got a cop inno under your hat, I'm almost 100% certain he's scum. And even if you do I'd still want to lynch him.

Oh, and would lynch Red Ruy.

Want Kantrip most of all.

Inferno only if push comes to No Lynch.

ugh, this is getting confusing... At that point we barely had any stone claims, so even if Raziek is warlock/lyncher, this quotes are indicating he actually saw something in Kantrip N1...

Questions are: Is Kantrip Mafia? Super unlikely. Several disconnections with RR. Redirected N1, and it seems the redirection was some ability from Mafia. Mafia with Doom aside from the NKill would be too much to my taste. Kantrip is indy if he's scum.

Raziek indy? Could be: he could also be lying about the NKill he saw; maybe he saw "Doom", and based on that alone he pushed on Kantrip... This is a possibility I'm specially considering, and that allows me to fit pieces

I think Raziek is Warlock/Lyncher at worst... problem is, if he's telling the truth about his results and everything while Indy, it would imply Kantrip is scum due to the NKill Raz saw. That would mean Inferno and Glyph are town (ugh), and that Mafia were only two guys (I absolutely refuse to believe more than 5 scum are in this game, counting Lego as scum)

Raziek's game-play also makes total sense if he's Warlock/Lyncher =/. If this is the case, he probably picks his target by stones. It would explain the utility of stones, serve as pseudo-protection for Lego's role (no stone, easily detectable in a stone-mass-claim), and from a setup point-of-view, it fits into a game that's supposed to be able to be played several times

Raziek town would imply Kantrip indy. That's for sure.

...

So, at this point my theory is that either Raziek is Warlock/Indy, that he's lying in his NKill result on Kantrip (note also that that has come to light only recently), and that Inferno is Mafia (I just can't see Inferno as anything else), or that Kantrip is indy and that if by lynching him we still don't win, Inferno is mafia.

My suggested course of action would be lynching Inferno. He's mafia in any scenario. Ryker steals his ability. We'd need to plan on our Night actions. Ryker can block Kantrip and Glyph. I mimic Raz to see if I get results, and I target Ryker to watch and track him. Gova protects me. Raz watch/tracks either me or Gova. All this is just a first draft and suggestions are welcome.

We need to get rid of the NKill if we want to check who's lying between Raziek and Kantrip. Ryker and me roleblocking people could be an option, but it would help greatly to take out the mafia faction: Inferno.

Ryker, for clarification, besides game-play, your main point against Glyph is him claiming using abilities N2 when you roleblocked him?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

See Inferno, I am your only hope as Rajam will have you burn.

No, it's his play.

 

[Kantrip]

Rajam your plan has some flaws. Gova doesn't have a Night Action anymore and if you're wrong about Inferno then Ryker gets basically nothing from the lynch. Risking mimicking Raziek also isn't good on the chance that he has some scummy stuff going on. You want to be mimicking town.

My suggestion is that we get you to mimic Ryker who will have Hellcry Punch from Glyph. One of you roleblocks me and one of you roleblocks Raziek. Inferno uses Stop on Raziek to take away his vote so he can't insta-lynch me toMorrow (this is good even if Inferno is scum, and even in that scenario he has Stop because he had Haste). Unfortunately this doesn't deal with the possibility of Inferno having a Night Kill, but even then with both me and Raziek roleblocked it will be pretty clear who to blame if one occurs.

So to outline it clearly: Glyph is lynched.

Ryker: Uses Hellcry Punch on Kantrip
Rajam: Uses Mimic on Ryker, targeting Raziek
Inferno: Uses Stop on Raziek
Kantrip: Does nothing
Raziek: Does nothing
Gova: Does nothing
Sang: Uses Jump to possibly avoid dying (or does nothing if we'd prefer her to die, but frankly there are way bigger fish to fry than her to the point where I'd clear her by PoE.)

 

[Rajam]

OKAY not sure how long I'll have access to the internet so here goes everything.

Allow me to clarify what my good ol Lv. 1 Hellcry Punch does.

Dring the night phase, I pick a player. Said player loses their first active ability used that night (IE, roleblocked). But, and here's the good part, factional night kills are not affected or observed. Oh, and the next good part? My ability is classified as factional night kill despite not killing the targeted player (meaning good luck stopping it nerds)

SO, what does this mean for us?

Well if you haven't figured it out yet, I targeted Gova with this ability last night. And yet, there he is having visited Gheb! Considering that there's only one type of ability that could have gone through, it seems pretty clear that he wasn't visiting Gheb out of the kindness of his heart.

AND on top of that, I went ahead and clarified that his abilities come from the ones listed in the OP. Lets look at them all and consider what could have interfered with my power, shall we?

1. Calculator - Silence. He could have silenced me as well as Gheb. Odds of me and Gheb both having a divisible number AND Gova thinking roleblocking a bunch of townies as town are so close to zero its negligible. The other options from calculator would not have an impact.

2. Dragoon - Does not visit, solely self preservational junk

3. Ninja - Could not have targeted me and Gheb. Plus why he would want to be immune from Gheb I don't know.

4. Priest - My ability counts as a NK, so GG Priests

5. Time Mage - I wasn't notified of being stopped, that would have been the only thing that would have messed with me

6. Thief - Doesn't have an impact

7. Geomancer - Would have had to target both myself and Gheb again

8. Summoner - Aww yee NK-status ability. Good time to mention that while it is classified as a NK, it still doesn't effect bulletproof and junk

9. Dancer - No effect

10.Oracle - Could have used silence on both myself and Gheb. Would be very interested in the logic behind that. Also, not sure why we wouldn't get a notification from this version of silence. And that's assuming NAR puts that above my version of the roleblock.

11. Samurai - Only way this could have gone through is if its (surprise) the Vig shot. Which we don't want going through, considering Gheb was one of the stronger town reads of most everybody.

12. Mime - See: Oracle

13. Chemist - Does not visit players

14. Archer - Not applicable again

15. Monk - Does not visit

16. Wizard - Gogogo NK stat

17. Worker 8 - Bodyguard. If someone used bodyguard on Gova, you need to speak up like NOW. This is the only thing I could see having actually interfered with my action, but then I expect a damn good reason for picking Gova over Ryker or Gheb.

18. Mediator - No way in hell is that above a roleblock in NAR. Also, the mediator cannot be protected from NKs, which means my roleblock is a guaranteed hit.


So there's that. Gova should not have had a means of getting to Gheb with my roleblock in play.

vote: Gova


Oh and guess what I have for you guys.










Assuming Govascum (which I think is a pretty safe bet right now), then who's going to be the one wanting to ensure my point of keeping Gova safe doesn't get mucked with?

I'd have to give that to good ol Kantrip, who incidentally is probably Gova's scummate.


Get at me.

Note though that if we're to believe Glyph'd ability, it only takes away one active ability, not all of them. I think the oracle roleblock is a better option.

 

[Kantrip]

Who has an oracle roleblock?

 

[Kantrip]

Oh I see what you're getting at.

You missed the party, thief abilities are only usable the Night AFTER the lynch and cannot be saved up.

 

[Gova]

Glyph is out of Hellcry punches too btw, so even if Ryker steals it he can't use it and Rajam can't mimic it.

 

[Rajam]

Ryker, he stole it N2 from RR iirc

Note also that Glyph claimed his ability doesn't stop NKills so if there is a NKill we can't conclude anything

 

[Kantrip]

Glyph is out of Hellcry punches too btw, so even if Ryker steals it he can't use it and Rajam can't mimic it.

They were limited? That's news to me. o.O

Ryker, he stole it N2 from RR iirc

Note also that Glyph claimed his ability doesn't stop NKills so if there is a NKill we can't conclude anything

Yeah I caught that and as I said he can't use it anymore. You're right on the NK point, I had forgotten that.