Final Fantasy IX Mafia | Game over! | Who won? :o

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

RR, when can you block someone from voting? Can you do it during the day?

I don't know why you would make seem even less legitimate by adding in flavor speculation, it feels like wifom.

I can only do it during the night, can't do it in the day.

You also realize I was asked about it and answered a question. Should have I ignored it or not answered it?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@RR. Your claim doesn't clear you in my eyes, but it doesn't incriminate you either. As someone else has said, I would like to see more from you before deadline that isn't related to your role or to inactives. Could you tell me your reads and why on the people that are active in this game?

Did you even read the context of why I talked about my flavor and role?

J is null leaning town
Dad is town
Hilt is null
AM is town
Acro is scum
Seikend is scum
Sang is null

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Regardless of RR's flip, I want to look into Acro/Sang more. (Acro especially moreso on a RRscum flip, Sang a little more on a RRtown flip. *figured out what I didn't like about her*) Possibly LST depending on his Sang case and same goes for AM when I see more from them. I'm comfortable with JTB(duh), Hilt, and Seik atm. I don't know what to think of Panta. Tom/Seph both need to be hit up with something or a replacement. Tanny we have a literal nothing from that slot so a lot of eyes are gonna be on her. Daddy's odd but I like em and want to keep them around to see more from them.

Shouldn't Acro be looked at more on a Ryu town flip?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ah. I meant to post this earlier, then I will stop for a bit because I feel like I'm crowding up the place with too many posts.

Just because RR has the power to stop a vote doesn't mean he has the power to stop people from scum-hunting. IIRC, a person can tell you that such and such a person is scum and it's almost exactly the same as voting for them, if not it's at least an FoS. They can still ask questions and get answers and pressure people into answering them correctly. They can still give their view on things and help the town lead the lynch for a mafia member.

The idea is that they can't add their vote to anything they would support, it helps force other lynches to be easier or harder depending on who is blocked.

It's partly about scumhunting but more so about support for a lynch.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

RR-Acro connection.

Looking at the pushes they have made on each other they are very week. I can't drag up posts but if I could I would bring up how RR let his vote just sit on Acro and didn't really push that scum-read until it came time to defend himself where most of it was just a push onto Acro. A weak push at that. Then we look at Acro who's RRscum vote came out of nowhere and didn't really have much reasoning at all to it even when asked to explain it. Later on we see RR voting for Seik and getting off his strongest scum-read (being Acro) for very weak reasoning and seemed to just hop on to gain speed to the adjoining wagon. Yet he still hasn't mentioned what happened to his Acro read.

Basically what I am seeing is weak distancing attempts between the two and a disconnection that seems to imply that they planned to have a little tiff in the thread but it really never went anywhere. When it seemed like the opportune time to get on, Acro hopped on RR for a bus. (that's how I'm seeing it w.r.t. Acro-RR scumteam) Regardless of flip, Acro's RR vote is ugly. However even if RR does not flip scum, I still have disdain for Acro simply because as the game continues, his posts are sliding down into a very bad light.

I do suggest others take a look at the connection between these two in light of a scum-flip. I'll get to why I am starting to see RRtown-SangScum when I have the ability to bring up quotes but I believe this to be the more likely thing (RR-Acro) because I have a strong feeling RR is going to flip scum.

I'm confused by the bolded can you explain it?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm treating the actual surface response as null. I like the fact that he stated his ability is not tied into his role and didn't try to force it in otherwise. I also don't see any appeals to emotion. He's just explaining to me that flavor has nothing to do with his ability.



I think that RR's play this game has been construed as anti-town based on how he is going from me, to the closest wagon, to inactives in terms of lynch focus which seems directionless and fraught with weak points the past couple of days. RR also hasn't put time into defending himself that well.

Now I know this is wifom, but I feel that a scum RR would have a much clearer aim and focus than how he played in mid-game and late-game. Early-game RR was planning on pushing policy lynches|inactives. Then game his mid-game scum read on me. Then came the late-game switch to Seikend and then Sephiroth.

It is possible that he could have seen an opportunity on me with you initially fossing me, however I'm not too sure that is the case. In general though, RR has little explanation to explaining why he switches and a good explanation on why his targets are scum. Therefore his play seems weak, insincere, and dodgy. Hence, lynch.



I have been developing a degree of pessimism over the importance of these questions and how important they are to you in actually forming reads. Relatively early in this game you developed a fos on Red Ryu|Panta which you've still maintained despite extensive Q&A. I have begun to question how much these questions actually do affect your fos because your scum reads seem to not be tied in with your questions, only possible town reads.

I will admit though that my answer was unwarranted and I understand that you are asking me about how I feel about others in the same vote wagon: Hilt, Dad, and Sangfroid. Correspondingly my reads on them are null-town and null for the last two:

Hilt is null town. I generally like his comments, but I dislike his voting as they seem to complacent to settle on the most popular target of the day: Panta|RR. If I missed any crazy Hilt voting shenanigans, then feel free to hit me up Hilt. But your votes don't really reflect to me the amount of thinking you are doing in some of your posts.

Sangfroid initially seemed a bit different in comparison to our last game, but she seemed to resemble regular town play after initial unease (unease inside me). Dad is null, he hasn't really explained reads and I removed him from scum when he clarified the aforementioned situation yesterday.

Acknowledged that there wasn't a push. Didn't know why he switched. Didn't get a response to my rebuttal of his points. I can't explain why RR isn't defending himself but his lack of effort in doing so is a major impetus behind this lynch.



I never received a response to this, so I assumed you were okay with it:





More RR. Fantastic.



RR could have also realized that I'm not scum or that I'm not getting lynched. But then again I don't know because he hasn't gotten back to any of my responses.



Is "very bad light" a replacement adjective for "scummy." Because if it is, I'd prefer you pointing out what is scummy about them rather than using a vague catch-word that you can reference later on in order to get me lynched. Because I literally haven't had a conversation where you tried to seriously tackle anything I've posted except when we had the initial JTB conversation. My vote is on someone I have as null so of course it is going to be ugly. I'm not going to pretend that RR is my #1 ultimate scum pick after 101 questions, because he is not. He seems to not have the time|effort to play well this game and it is hard to discern his alignment from this type of play, therefore he is getting lynched. Even though I have a feeling that RR could flip town, I would prefer him to be mislynched as early as possible so that scum can't use him as a scapegoat later on.



I believe that RR is going to flip town more so than scum and even in this case I am okay with his lynch as I find his play-style to be anti-town and a mafia push for a mislynch later on.

So your fully admitting it's going to be a ML, not even a PL but a ML, and your fine with it. Eeewww.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I really don't see the "scummyness" of Seikend.

I'd rather go for an RR lynch.

You haven't been reading this game, how about J's thoughts on me vs Sang and Acro?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Everyone: Can you please comment on what you think of Acro's reasoning to vote RR? Do you agree with my 553?

It's exactly what I tried with Chibo in RE4. It looks really bad and hella scummy, he's already knowing it's a ML, and doesn't even think of it as a PL.

Hate acro but I'm going where it matters more.

Unvote
Vote: Seikend

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Voted | Voter(s) | Votes/Lynch
Acrostic | JTB | 1 / 8
Seikend | Aggressive Mediation, Panta, Dad, Red Ryu | 4 / 8
Red Ryu | J, Seikend, SangfroidWarrior, Acrostic, Hilt | 5 / 8
SangfroidWarrior | Leopard Skin Taser | 1 / 8

---​

Not Voting: Tandora, Tom, Sephiroths Masamune
Takes 8/14 to lynch

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Posting to let everyone know I don't know when I'm going to be able to actually post. Haven't caught up since my last post though, but I am hoping to be able to do so before deadline hits, though no promises. My apologies.

 

[#HBC | J]

RR, agree with your 566 with extra emphasis on the ewww. Now I have changed my mind to regardless of what you flip, I want Acro looked up with extreme scrutiny. With what you pointed out in bold, I want people to look at your two's posts to see if they see what I am getting at. I was saying that I would explain it when I have the chance but I still believe you have a high probability of flipping scum.

Seik wagon, I will only be voting him if it is needed I hammer him, otherwise I want people on the RR wagon.

 

[#HBC | J]

Sang, the reason I think you are scum on an RRtown flip can be compressed into a few reasons. You have voted RR, yet you haven't been pushing him at all really, but moreso you have actually been defending him. You haven't shown that much of a drive towards wanting his lynch above all else and seem to be leaving yourself with a few more openings then I like w.r.t. your opening post. You say you find a few people leaning scummy and for reasonings that don't hold much weight (like your Hilt read) and jump on the two most popular wagons at the time (RR/Seik).

Speaking of jumping onto the bandwagon, you agree to a lot of the popular thought which I find strange, like with RR/Seik, Myself/LST/AM being town. However, the reasons supported behind these are weak. Plus the fact that you have changed a lot of these without much happening in between is alarming and quite waffly. This is where I am getting what people mean by different. You seem to be a bit less secure with your reads like you have to be more cautious.

Overall it secures you as my 3rd scum-pick pretty soundly especially above many of the other players which I have stronger town reads on.

 

[#HBC | J]

EBWOP: Okay I obscured a bit what I wanted to say in that first paragraph because I got on another tangent. Sorry. Anyways, I feel you don't really think RR is scum but moreso, you are voting him just to vote him and keep your head out of the limelight.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Inactivity sucks.

@mod: request mass prods

J do you think people will pick it up or will have this game replace out? What are your thoughts on my reads?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

You have voted RR, yet you haven't been pushing him at all really, but moreso you have actually been defending him.

Um... I have been pushing him...? I've been trying to get him to post anything friggin relating to why he thinks people are scum. I dislike the fact that him, along with AM, assume that we all know what they are talking about without telling us their thought process, even going as far to insult us when we don't understand. The only time I defended him was when people were saying how his claim is scummy when it doesn't seem that way to me. They were just clouding their thoughts and reads with stupid reasonings.

You haven't shown that much of a drive towards wanting his lynch above all else and seem to be leaving yourself with a few more openings then I like w.r.t. your opening post. You say you find a few people leaning scummy and for reasonings that don't hold much weight (like your Hilt read) and jump on the two most popular wagons at the time (RR/Seik).

*sigh* The reason some wagons are popular is because people see them to be scummy. I see them too be scummy. Where have I not shown a drive to wanting his lynch? And, leaving openings? Hello. I have 3 scum picks I think. How is that leaving openings? Yes, they are leaning scummy because I don't have much to hold them on. Plus, if it seems like I haven't been focusing on RR that much is because I want everyone else to answer my questions.

Speaking of jumping onto the bandwagon, you agree to a lot of the popular thought which I find strange, like with RR/Seik, Myself/LST/AM being town. However, the reasons supported behind these are weak. Plus the fact that you have changed a lot of these without much happening in between is alarming and quite waffly.

What you call "waffly" is me actually being able to play this game and ask my own questions instead of having to go off of other people's questions. Let me clear something up. When I say "I will keep that in mind when I re-read" it isn't me changing my perspective on things. I still have that person as scummy or not unless I explicitly say so. That is just me keeping an open mind and trying to look at things from a different perspective. Another thing, I'm not so positive that AM is town, nor with LST. IIRC, I have LST as null leaning town and AM I have recently put him back on null.

This is where I am getting what people mean by different. You seem to be a bit less secure with your reads like you have to be more cautious.

Um... I'm never secure with my reads until I have information I can go off of. IIRC, D1 in newbie I was as "waffly" as I am now.

I don't like how you're pushing weird things. It's like you expect me to have all of the answers despite the fact that I've been absent most of this Day.

BTW, sorry for changing my mind on things when I get a response that I like. I will, from now on, tunnel onto people I dislike and will not be swayed from it. Thank you for teaching me how wrong I am in my ways.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Speaking of which, RR, I think you, and possibly Dad IIRC, are the only ones who have not answered my questions. Here's a reminder: questions

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm available in case you guys need me. With 11 players voting and 8 players required to lynch, it means that 72.72% of us need to be in agreement with the lynch otherwise this is going to result in an NL.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Um, Acro. If you haven't noticed NOBODY IS HERE!!!. Seriously. It's like everyone is avoiding it. I'm getting so annoyed.

 

[#HBC | J]

Um, Acro. If you haven't noticed NOBODY IS HERE!!!. Seriously. It's like everyone is avoiding it. I'm getting so annoyed.

Agreed but it's not going to work if we don't do anything about it like some harsher look at the ones who tend to hide in the shadows. It seems people think they can get away with just posting a post then running away till they are called upon again.

@Mod: Request Replacement on Tom's Slot. He's had at least 3 prods by this point.

I also second the mass-prod.

 

[JTB]

I'm here and I'll vote RR when the time comes J.

 

[#HBC | J]

J do you think people will pick it up or will have this game replace out? What are your thoughts on my reads?

People will need to pick it up because I hate seeing games die that the mod put such hard effort into creating a set-up and also putting time and effort into this flavour. Plus I've been immensely looking forward to Gheb's game for a while now.

Your reads revolve around the inactives mainly and it is indeed true, they suck. Your AcroScum read matches mine however I disagree with your SeikScum read.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Agreed but it's not going to work if we don't do anything about it like some harsher look at the ones who tend to hide in the shadows. It seems people think they can get away with just posting a post then running away till they are called upon again.

It's annoying that I agree with you ^_^

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm here and I'll vote RR when the time comes J.

We need your vote now my duder. We need to show we aren't switching the lynch to Seik and with your vote puts him at L-2.

 

[#HBC | J]

It's annoying that I agree with you ^_^

Why's it annoying? o_O I probably need to read your response now I guess to understand haha.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

J could you recap on why you think RR is scum again?

RR why are you asking J for his opinions on your reads? If you are town then you should know that J's opinion is wrong and that he isn't someone you want feedback from for an accurate fos. I seriously don't get you.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'm here and I'll vote RR when the time comes J.

You know, if I didn't know you were town, I would find that post scummy. Regardless, I don't like it. Who do you think is scum? What are your reads on people and why?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Why's it annoying? o_O I probably need to read your response now I guess to understand haha.

Haha not really. It's just that we seem to have been matching a bit more lately in terms of certain things in this game than I feel comfortable with.

 

[JTB]

You know, if I didn't know you were town, I would find that post scummy. Regardless, I don't like it. Who do you think is scum? What are your reads on people and why?

I'm using the fact that I'm mod confirmed town to take a different approach to this game. You should see the results soon enough.

 

[#HBC | J]

J could you recap on why you think RR is scum again?

RR why are you asking J for his opinions on your reads? If you are town then you should know that J's opinion is wrong and that he isn't someone you want feedback from for an accurate fos. I seriously don't get you.

You do realize that regardless of my attack of RR, he has me as null-leaning town? Just because someone attacks someone doesn't change much. You're weird.

Acro, since your vote is on RR, why don't you tell me why you think RR is scum again? Then I'll give you my reasoning.

^Sang, I would like you to do something similar, bullet your personal reasons for telling me why RR is scum. Go after Acro.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'm using the fact that I'm mod confirmed town to take a different approach to this game. You should see the results soon enough.

Alrighty. I will be waiting patiently to see the end result.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

^Sang, I would like you to do something similar, bullet your personal reasons for telling me why RR is scum. Go after Acro.

I was doing that now, actually, because I see that I wasn't as... forthcoming with my reasons as I thought I was.

 

[#HBC | J]

Haha not really. It's just that we seem to have been matching a bit more lately in terms of certain things in this game than I feel comfortable with.

You don't feel comfortable having similar trains of thoughts...?

You are an odd one Sang.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

You don't feel comfortable having similar trains of thoughts...?

You are an odd one Sang.

I realize this. No, I don't because I feel like, when I do have similar trains of thoughts as someone else, they start to get a little too close and I can't keep a comfortable distance to get good perspective on them.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Acro. Is there a reason you are adding legitimate math to this game? It doesn't matter that we need 72.72% of people to agree on one lynch. That's what a majority is...

 

[#HBC | J]

Yes I'm getting very close to you this game Sang. So hey buddy, could you like go stand on that podium and put your head through the rope? It'll make for a great picture! I swear! Nothing's gonna happen.



Also if you are explaining your RR thing already then I will wait to see it because that will clear up some things up in your response. Regardless, your tone in the last line is a bit too biting/defensive for my tastes.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

You do realize that regardless of my attack of RR, he has me as null-leaning town? Just because someone attacks someone doesn't change much. You're weird.

I'm not weird at all. Why is RR asking you to comment on his reads if he knows that you are reading wrong? This makes even less sense from a null-town perspective because he seems to imply that he genuinely wants feedback from someone who wrongly has a scum read (on him). If he thought you were scum or null-scum then at least he could try to find out who your partners might be from your response.

Acro, since your vote is on RR, why don't you tell me why you think RR is scum again? Then I'll give you my reasoning.

I already have. You've already commented on how you think it is scummy. I have stated that RR's play is anti-town with his unexplained vote switched and poor rebuttals. I know you know that I've already gone over this. Despite this my gut read is that RR is still town because no one is really coming to help him out (scum-mates) and he just seems so lost this entire game. However his play is still fundamentally anti-town and I would prefer if we lynch him today rather than have him as a questionable read or a possible push at a later point in this game.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@Acro. Is there a reason you are adding legitimate math to this game? It doesn't matter that we need 72.72% of people to agree on one lynch. That's what a majority is...

Out of the 11 people who have showed that they are participating with their vote, 8 of them need to be in agreement. In other words, there needs to be a big consensus among the players currently active that they agree with one person. If all 14 people were participating, then 57.14% of them need to agree on the lynch. If you factor in the fact that town will be divided in decisions and also the possibility of all scum being active and trying to guide the lynch, then there is a high likelihood that this lynch today will be a miss lynch or a no lynch considering these factors.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm not weird at all. Why is RR asking you to comment on his reads if he knows that you are reading wrong? This makes even less sense from a null-town perspective because he seems to imply that he genuinely wants feedback from someone who wrongly has a scum read (on him). If he thought you were scum or null-scum then at least he could try to find out who your partners might be from your response.

No but seriously, what?

I already have. You've already commented on how you think it is scummy. I have stated that RR's play is anti-town with his unexplained vote switched and poor rebuttals. I know you know that I've already gone over this. Despite this my gut read is that RR is still town because no one is really coming to help him out (scum-mates) and he just seems so lost this entire game. However his play is still fundamentally anti-town and I would prefer if we lynch him today rather than have him as a questionable read or a possible push at a later point in this game.

Then tell me, why did you ask me to re-explain my RRscum when it's been damn clear since I've been the most vocal about it? Your voting RR when he is a town-read of yours, what is wrong with your head? You keep alluding to the fact that he is going to be ML'd in the future. You also keep talking about how he is a town read, yet you do nothing to defend him but instead you are literally throwing him under the bus.

 

[#HBC | J]

Out of the 11 people who have showed that they are participating with their vote, 8 of them need to be in agreement. In other words, there needs to be a big consensus among the players currently active that they agree with one person. If all 14 people were participating, then 57.14% of them need to agree on the lynch. If you factor in the fact that town will be divided in decisions and also the possibility of all scum being active and trying to guide the lynch, then there is a high likelihood that this lynch today will be a miss lynch or a no lynch considering these factors.

What is the point of this conversation.....?

Sang, tell me what you gained in asking Acro to continue explaining this number thing?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Then tell me, why did you ask me to re-explain my RRscum when it's been damn clear since I've been the most vocal about it? Your voting RR when he is a town-read of yours, what is wrong with your head? You keep alluding to the fact that he is going to be ML'd in the future. You also keep talking about how he is a town read, yet you do nothing to defend him but instead you are literally throwing him under the bus.

Why are you getting so defensive about me re-asking for your reason? I just want to know what it is in short-hand form. I'm voting RR because he reads null to me but my gut feels bad about this lynch. There is nothing wrong with my head. I'm actually being quite logical. There is a difference between head and gut. My head says that RR is anti-town but my gut tells me that there are no scum mates connections with RR and this has a high chance of being a miss lynch. If you want to know I think that today is set-up between two townies. But I can't really help it because I haven't found anyone I believe is inherently scummy based on today. I should have a scum read, but I don't. Therefore I'm going with this PL in my mind hoping that it helps me make a decision for tomorrow.