Falco's "That's interesting" thread.

[Choice]

I dont know if it was a combo but I definitely hit pikapika with no KB up air to up smash for the kill once...

yea, it combos i believe. at the very least, whenever i do it, it connects. at low % it leads into grab too.

 

[dainbramage]

If you stale your DA enough you can kill with a gatling. Only really viable on something like CS.

 

[Choice]

What does CS stand for? Also that is very interesting. how many times stale does it need to be?

 

[clowsui]

he means castle siege

i imagine the DA would have to be on something as stale as rotation 5 or rotation 6 in order to true combo at high percents

 

[Choice]

ok yea, it makes sense to try it on castle seige. i might mess around with this today.

 

[Vlade]

Weak hit of dash attack -> Jab -> Grab

At low %, mainly when you dthrow at 50% and they don't DI up. It's probably fairly common knowledge but I'm posting it anyway

 

[hippiedude92]

^ lol didn't know that at all (not so common knowledge at all :3 )

that was interesting.

*goes to implement *

 

[Yumewomiteru]

against really good players (esp fataI) i notice that they like to attack after you jab1 then so that they punish you for trying to jab cancel. I think the best way to counter that is to jab to shield (dunno if that even works tbh) and grab their attack out of a powershield. If they attack too fast then just going into jab 3 would probably be the best.

 

[Choice]

instead of using jab 3 you could just jab 2 then repeat.

 

[Denzi]

Yeah, double jab gives you a followup on pretty much everything they could do except a roll away.

 

[clowsui]

snake can jab you out of your double jab cancel, it's stupid...even if you buffer the follow up -_-;

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

against really good players (esp fataI) i notice that they like to attack after you jab1 then so that they punish you for trying to jab cancel. I think the best way to counter that is to jab to shield (dunno if that even works tbh) and grab their attack out of a powershield. If they attack too fast then just going into jab 3 would probably be the best.

I actually recommend exactly what you said yume. I never jab into grab typically. I always jab into shieldgrab. It saves you from the weirdest stuff at times.

 

[Choice]

snake can jab you out of your double jab cancel, it's stupid...even if you buffer the follow up -_-;

you're positive about this? like you might be double jabbing too slow.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

yeah, i hear that cancelling typically is never a true combo. I am not surprised that snake can jab or ftilt you out of 2nd jab cancel.

 

[Vlade]

I usually just avoid jab cancelling against snake

Falco can counter snake's jab cancels with his own jab :D Like seriously if you see snake jabbing you, just start mashing A. I've outpaced the 3rd hit of snake's jab before (might be because he messed up).

Jab cancelling is only a mindgame, but an effective one at that. Also, if you do a single jab after a whiffed attack it is often better than shielding/dodging/rolling imo

 

[Choice]

jabbing to cover whiffed moves is too good.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Jab cancelling isn't a mindgame, it's abusing human reaction time.

 

[clowsui]

@choice i mean to say double jab-XX isn't a guaranteed thing, they can't jab you out of the double jab but they can double jab you out of grab/ftilt/dash attack etc., everything save jab 3

 

[Choice]

but they shouldnt be able to jab you in between double jab canceling. even if they can just shield next time. a lot of times double jab pops people up into the air (at least on larger characters, like d3) so if thats the case jab isnt an option.

 

[clowsui]

oh that's not what i meant, i've never been jabbed out of a double jab haha

 

[Choice]

oh i get what you mean.

 

[Denzi]

Yeah if you just double jab > double jab a lot of chars can't do much but shield, and then you grab and whatnot.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

So turns out that Snake can punish jab 1 if he di away and you hit with the tip of jab 1 so that jab 2 misses, which he can then ftilt punish your jab 2. So in that situation it is best to jab1 and stop, and i dont think he will be able to hit you with the ftilt as your hurtbox wouldnt be extended.

But honestly, jab combo actually wrecks snake, you can literally do really well against snake just by triple jabbing a few times and run away to avoid punishment or followup for a higher risk reward payoff. Jab beats alot of Snake's options.

 

[Choice]

Snake has to be inputting his sdi as soon as jab1 hits though, which is pretty hard considering it comes out on frame 2.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

If snake is holding away when you jab him and you jabbed him with the tip then he gets out. I can imagine a Snake familiar with the matchup learning to do this if he is expecting a jab punish.

 

[Choice]

Is jab really something you can predict and respond to fast enough? Again its 2 frames. I feel like if they're predicting it you're playing too linear.

 

[Denzi]

Yeah. Easily half the point of our jab is to take advantage of the fact that it's so hard to react to. If it weren't, we wouldn't have anything out of it.

 

[Choice]

That and it's range is pretty great. I feel like they need to sdi pretty hard to get away from jab2. Do you have any vids of someone doing this?

 

[teluoborg]

Interesting thread (yea I'm late) but it would be easier to read if things were organized by relevance (like moveset, stage specific, strategies, etc) instead of contributor.

And now to contribute,
BF + lasers :
-from ground to side platform you can FH triple laser
-from ground to top platform you can FH double laser
-from top platform to ground you can drop off double laser
-when people camp the side platforms FH quadruple laser is the best option because it covers jumping and dropping off the platform (also true on SV and YI).

Craq walking : hold backwards when landing from a SHBair and your turnaround animation will gain a momentum boost. Great to bait approaches or retreat after a whiffed OOS.

 

[Choice]

full hopping and quadruple laser sounds kinda risky vs mk, he'd drop through and run over before you're free to move.

 

[teluoborg]

Well if he's far enough the fourth laser covers the drop through, and it has no landing lag.
And if he isn't then why would you use lasers ?

 

[Choice]

can't really get that far away on bf and mk closes distances mad quick. its not really a matter of landing lag (obviously) but more so the lag which prevents you from switching from lasering into something else mid air.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Is jab really something you can predict and respond to fast enough? Again its 2 frames. I feel like if they're predicting it you're playing too linear.

You do not have to be predictable or rather linear. Sometimes you will simply mess up because someone makes a hard prediction against you. It's risky, but some characters have to do this to get anything done.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

That and it's range is pretty great. I feel like they need to sdi pretty hard to get away from jab2. Do you have any vids of someone doing this?

no vids, but i can def say that Fatal did it against me in friendlies, I imagine that he got alot of Falco experience playing against Bloodcross and Pelca, and he learned to sdi away and ftilt rly well.

So I'm thinking that he held away preemptively, and when i hit him with the tip of my jab1 he was able to avoid jab 2 and ftilt punish since my hurtbox was extended.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

reposting it

So my friend (TFL) who doesn't even use Falco claims he "discovered" something and claims it is legit.

here goes

Him
"and ive discovered
something that is mad sexy
at 90ish to 100% and above
a falco
fullhop
dair
which hits people as small as meta (if you dash and fullhop inside him and do it)
you will land on the top bf platform
and
you can upsmash
afterward
for a kill
it combos into it, the best thing is since its a spike.... even if its damage is redused the knockback is the same..."

and?;o

 

[Choice]

why, that is interesting =p

so dair's knockback really does not stale?

 

[Keitaro]

no vids, but i can def say that Fatal did it against me in friendlies, I imagine that he got alot of Falco experience playing against Bloodcross and Pelca, and he learned to sdi away and ftilt rly well.

So I'm thinking that he held away preemptively, and when i hit him with the tip of my jab1 he was able to avoid jab 2 and ftilt punish since my hurtbox was extended.

lolol @ Super Bloodcross in your sig!

 

[da K.I.D.]

im about to try that full jump dair thing, that sounds amazing.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have an idea that was inspired by Dark Energy. It is in regards to a potiential kill set-up.

I have no way to test this at all, but it was an idea that I think might work. Falco can force ground releases from hit grab by mashing pummels. This breaks the opponent a set distance from falco. If I recall correctly, the frame advantage for the break away is zero for both characters.

What if falco puts up his shield immediatly after the break? Often times you might catch someone trying to button mash, they break out and do not realize it and end up doing some move by mistake. When that happens, they might end up attacking falco's shield, and from attacking our shield, we can OoS Usmash.

What do you think? I can see some obvious faults with this depending upon grab ranges, but if the opponent reaches out first, you could still hit them if they whiff because the would be leaning forward. Others would be obivously shielding themselves or rolling, spotdodging. But, the idea is to provide some random set-up they might not be prepared for.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nope, we actually get a 1 frame advantage if we grab release them.

Grab release is like 30 frames = enough time to react

Grab releasing isn't even that good with Falco, except against characters with ****ty shield options like ZSS or GaW