Falco Shield Pressure Thread

[Charlesz]

As a new falco player, in my opinion one of the most important ( or seemingly important ) components to falco's game is his ability to pressure your opponent in his shield. This thread can be used to discuss various ways to pressure the opponents shield and the timing required to do so. Feel free to ask , discuss and express your opinion on how falco should go about pressure shields.


P.S I will also update my main post and include the different ways to pressure sheilds.

 

[Lovage]

shoot them with a laser when they roll

 

[Melomaniacal]

I was actually going to ask about effective ways of shield pressuring. From what I gather, nair/dair shine repeat is good. But my problem is that when I try this, I usually get shield grabbed. I try to get behind my opponent most of the time, but it doesn't always work of course.

Is this just a matter of me not doing it fast enough?

 

[X1-12]

its probably you're missing fastfalls and L-cancels if they sheild grab you, if you do it perfectly unless they're super-good they probably wont be able to sheild-grab

also i like to sometimes shield pressure a bit then land and do an angled F-tilt to shield poke them, then follow with a laser and they'll probably shield again but it'll be tiny so you can get another f-tilt in after which they'll probably be off the edge ready to edgeguard

also sometimes i do a D-air ->shine ->shinegrab (JC a grab when in shine to get guaranteed grab

 

[ETWIST51294]

Use late dairs to add more shield stun. If you're immediately dairing out of the shine there won't be enough stun. Mix it up with some waveshines, JC shines, nairs, jabs, and dtilts and you're good to go.

 

[Melomaniacal]

its probably you're missing fastfalls and L-cancels if they sheild grab you, if you do it perfectly unless they're super-good they probably wont be able to sheild-grab

also i like to sometimes shield pressure a bit then land and do an angled F-tilt to shield poke them, then follow with a laser and they'll probably shield again but it'll be tiny so you can get another f-tilt in after which they'll probably be off the edge ready to edgeguard

also sometimes i do a D-air ->shine ->shinegrab (JC a grab when in shine to get guaranteed grab

I can assure you that fastfalling/l-canceling is not an issue for me.

Does it matter when I do the dair/nair? Like, should I do it as I'm rising or falling, etc?


EDIT: Thanks, twist. I'll experiment more with my timing. I may be doing them too early.

 

[X1-12]

I can assure you that fastfalling/l-canceling is not an issue for me.

Does it matter when I do the dair/nair? Like, should I do it as I'm rising or falling, etc?


EDIT: Thanks, twist. I'll experiment more with my timing. I may be doing them too early.

make sure you mix it up though

 

[ETWIST51294]

oh yeah, sometimes you actually WANT to dair immediately out of the shine because if you're doing the shield pressure correctly they'll take whatever they can get. This is what I'm saying, purposely dair early out of the shine, space the dair right next to the shield(outside of the opponents grab range), then punish them for trying to shield grab. It's a pretty sick mindgame.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Oh, I know. I'm just trying to solve the first problem where I won't even get another aerial out. At this point I usually waveshine away or behind them, but I want to get better at eating their shield away.

The main person I practice with uses Marth a lot, and it's hard and annoying to get out of his grab range when I'm trying to pressure his shield.

 

[X1-12]

yeah if you''re playing a marth and he's facing you don't try to get out of his range land a shine then waveshine behind him and do it with b-airs or whatever

also sometimes you can just do mindgames stuff like don't shine when you land and they probably wont grab you cause they expect you to shine but instead do an F-smash as they'll react to you not shining so grab just to get f-smash before their grab comes out - its so satisfying but don't over-use it

 

[Moooose]

doesnt sound like thats the issue in this case. late dairs will help

 

[JPOBS]

Lets get this out of the way right now cuz i think most people forget this:

there is no such thing as perfect shield pressure.

Seems like most falcos assuem that as long as they are hitting FF and l-cancels then they are superman or something. FALSE.

no matter how you pressure their shield your opponent can always grab you out of it. PERIOD.
mix ups are key.

 

[X1-12]

lets Get This Out Of The Way Right Now Cuz I Think Most People Forget This:

There Is No Such Thing As Perfect Shield Pressure.

Seems Like Most Falcos Assuem That As Long As They Are Hitting Ff And L-cancels Then They Are Superman Or Something. False.

No Matter How You Pressure Their Shield Your Opponent Can Always Grab You Out Of It. Period.
Mix Ups Are Key.

??frame Perfect Multishine????

EDIT: lul

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i would say that mixups aren't key.... i think ending the shield pressure ASAP is key. if you just sit on someone's shield doing stuff, they will find a way through it pretty fast (if not the first time you do it, the 2nd time). its pretty nice to see someone make a decision fast, and pretty annoying when someone sits in their shield. i've been using shinegrab more often just to beat this.

 

[Charlesz]

Just a question about shield pressure. Ive often seen mango approach with a sh nair to shine to sh d-air to sh n-air in the opponents shield. Is this particulary effective or is his timing really good and that is what allows him to not get shield grabbed.

 

[LLDL]

its because his opponents are intimidated and forget what to do.

 

[mers]

??frame Perfect Multishine????

EDIT: lul

Maybe you know this, but frame perfect multishines, even moving ones toward the opponents shield, can be grabbed. The opponent must shield DI back, which forces your second shine to miss and allows them to grab you.

 

[X1-12]

Maybe you know this, but frame perfect multishines, even moving ones toward the opponents shield, can be grabbed. The opponent must shield DI back, which forces your second shine to miss and allows them to grab you.

WALL???


sorry being dumb but in fairness i didn't actually know this thanks

 

[JPOBS]

i would say that mixups aren't key.... i think ending the shield pressure ASAP is key. if you just sit on someone's shield doing stuff, they will find a way through it pretty fast (if not the first time you do it, the 2nd time). its pretty nice to see someone make a decision fast, and pretty annoying when someone sits in their shield. i've been using shinegrab more often just to beat this.

Yea i've noticed this too.

but shine grab isnt the be all imo though. falco's grabs are pretty bad and they are low risk-low reward situations.

if someone is sitting in shield trying to sheild grab me, i either:
1. continue to sheild pressure with mixed up late/early nairs and poke with a shine

2. nair DI out to bait the grab and then get off.

the second one is so beast especially near the ledge where people are always thinking "if i can grab this falco and backthrow he's dead" then you do it and they are like "FUUUUUUUUUU-"

Just a question about shield pressure. Ive often seen mango approach with a sh nair to shine to sh d-air to sh n-air in the opponents shield. Is this particulary effective or is his timing really good and that is what allows him to not get shield grabbed.

its really easy to hit the l-cancel on an approaching nair which is why he does it so much. and also, its really tough for the opponent to sheild grab an approaching nair because a shine comes out right after. Then the second dair/nar he does is just well timed and he doesnt miss FF or L-cancels. theres no tricks to it.

 

[Vanitas]

i would say to mix things up a bit for shield pressuring
Zhu often does things involving the platforms on platform stages...where he often jumps shine, waveland on the platform and then dair again...
well my point like the previous posters have mentioned, is maybe to mix it up a bit? dunno i am a n00b

 

[Palpi]

I always get shield grabs off even with the strong parts of dair, i guess im not scared to shield grab? i dont know.

i think a decent idea would probably be to dair then multi shine so you have a chance of catching them with one of the shines as they try to shield grab you...but if they shield both of em your still at risk.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I always get shield grabs off even with the strong parts of dair, i guess im not scared to shield grab? i dont know.

i think a decent idea would probably be to dair then double shine so you have a chance of catching them with one of the shines as they try to shield grab you...but if they shield both of em your still at risk.

He speaks the truth.
I late dair, I early dair, I... middle dair. I still get shield grabbed by this guy before I can get a shine out. And yes, I am l-canceling. We practiced today and I made sure to try different timings of both nair and dair on shield, both had, like... a 25% success rate.

 

[mers]

Well, either you're still a little slow and you're making it easy for him, or else he's superhuman. You say you're getting grabbed before the shine comes out? I'm fairly confident a late dair to shine can't be shieldgrabbed until after the shine. Like, either way you do it you have to leave your opponent one of two possible windows to grab you: after aerial before shine, or after shine before aerial. So if you mix it up, hopefully he won't be able to time the right window every time.

Especially if he's always grabbing you before shine. That's a habit you can exploit.

Also, try other mixups too. Waveshine, multishine, shinegrab, retreating aerial, insert pauses at different points (Mango does this and its a complete mind****), etc.

EDIT:

Holy **** read this it's got everything you could possibly need to know. Somewhere in it is an explanation of what I just told you. That explanation is also in the very first post of Mogwai's Falco guide.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595

 

[Melomaniacal]

Well, I'll keep practicing and hopefully I will soon get over this hump, haha.

Oh, and Falco dittos are dumb. I have discovered this recently.

 

[Metal Reeper]

When you guys sheild pressure, how do you guys jump out of shine? I usually jump with X but i try to SH with the analog stick, i can do it sometimes but not as fast as i need to sheild pressure good. Do you gs jump out of shine with analog stick?

 

[ETWIST51294]

SHing with the analog is close to impossible to do consistently. I recommend learning how to do it with the X button.

 

[Rian]

insert pauses at different points

I do this too, sometimes by accident but most of the time on purpose. You'll be amazed at how long you can sometimes stand still in front of a shielding opponent.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yea i've noticed this too.

but shine grab isnt the be all imo though. falco's grabs are pretty bad and they are low risk-low reward situations.

if someone is sitting in shield trying to sheild grab me, i either:
1. continue to sheild pressure with mixed up late/early nairs and poke with a shine

2. nair DI out to bait the grab and then get off.

the second one is so beast especially near the ledge where people are always thinking "if i can grab this falco and backthrow he's dead" then you do it and they are like "FUUUUUUUUUU-"

yea those are alright...

the first one is basically a guessing game.... except the other person can shield grab on reaction if you do a high hit and only has to guess if you're going to delay. 75-25 in their favor.

the second is good and kind what i was talking about. end the pressure early by spacing. my only concern is when you get off their shield and space yourself, you leave room for them to respace themselves (roll/wd back) and you lose the advantage you had. at least when you grab them and throw them you keep an advantage (forcing a tech) or at least gain some dmg and possibly deter them from staying in their shield as much.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

Well, I'll keep practicing and hopefully I will soon get over this hump, haha.

Oh, and Falco dittos are dumb. I have discovered this recently.

they may turn around any time during the match, one combo and it's done haha but their definitely the most entertaining thing to watch even if you think their dumb

 

[Melomaniacal]

they may turn around any time during the match, one combo and it's done haha but their definitely the most entertaining thing to watch even if you think their dumb

Oh yeah, fun to watch, terrible to play.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I was actually going to ask about effective ways of shield pressuring. From what I gather, nair/dair shine repeat is good. But my problem is that when I try this, I usually get shield grabbed. I try to get behind my opponent most of the time, but it doesn't always work of course.

Is this just a matter of me not doing it fast enough?

It has nothing to do with how fast you are. You need to to SH, wait, and do your aerial right before you land, so that it hits his shield at the last, or close to last, possible moment. That way you hit his shield with the strongest hitbox and you're close to the ground. He'll be stuck in shieldstun long enough for you to shine him everytime he tries to shieldgrab.

Watch how Mango shield pressures. Pay close attention to the timing of his aerials.

The only time he does an instant aerial, it's from a shine, and he holds away so that by the time he lands, he'll be out of shield grab range.

 

[Melomaniacal]

It has nothing to do with how fast you are. You need to to SH, wait, and do your aerial right before you land, so that it hits his shield at the last, or close to last, possible moment. That way you hit his shield with the strongest hitbox and you're close to the ground. He'll be stuck in shieldstun long enough for you to shine him everytime he tries to shieldgrab.

Watch how Mango shield pressures. Pay close attention to the timing of his aerials.

The only time he does an instant aerial, it's from a shine, and he holds away so that by the time he lands, he'll be out of shield grab range.

Yes, we have already gone over this. Thanks though.

 

[JPOBS]

keep in mind though that if you choose to always do the mango sheild pressure they can grab you after the shine and before the aerial.

they have like 15 frames no sheild stun before you do the aerial after the shine and they only need 7 to sheild grab you.

hell, if it was a fox, they could even upsmash you and thats just funny.

 

[Charlesz]

keep in mind though that if you choose to always do the mango sheild pressure they can grab you after the shine and before the aerial.

they have like 15 frames no sheild stun before you do the aerial after the shine and they only need 7 to sheild grab you.

hell, if it was a fox, they could even upsmash you and thats just funny.

Then I don't understand why it is so **** hard to sheild grab mango,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w6uV1241wo

Unless fox's shine has more shield stun.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Unless fox's shine has more shield stun.

No. Fox's Shffl is just faster.

 

[Moooose]

yea falco aint fox. you can't just be shield pressuring all willy nilly.

 

[Charlesz]

yea falco aint fox. you can't just be shield pressuring all willy nilly.

U sure? Ive seen zhu mango shiz and those guys go pretty nuts on sheilds.

 

[Moooose]

you've probably also seen those guys shine out of shield on badly spaced shield pressure =x

 

[Deathgazer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHvEWPoj9iY

If you dont want to get shield grabbed, do the last aerial earlier and DI away from opponent. Also expect them to roll away from you so you can chase them up

Try to perfect double shining on shields like on 0:51 cos tthat can be quite useful

 

[PEEF!]

??frame Perfect Multishine????

EDIT: lul

Yeah magus already went over this. ShieldDI back and shieldgrab beats frame perfect multishine.

Perfect shieldpressure doesn't exist.

The best shieldpressure is laser>grab.