Falco Hitboxes and Frame Data

Bones0

Smash Legend
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Messages
11,147
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
#1
Credits to SuperDoodleMan for move frame data.
Images compiled and edited by Seikend.
Multishine frame data provided by Kadano.
Throw, tech, and get-up frame data provided by Magus420.
All gifs are at 1/3 of the actual game speed.
All aerials are performed while falling, therefore the hitboxes stretch upwards.
To view the individual frames for each move's GIF, copy the image's URL and paste it into www.gif-explode.com. If you use Google Chrome, I highly recommend using the GIF Scrubber extension.
Interruptible As Soon As (IASA): During these frames, you can only interrupt the attack with an A-button attack, walk, dash, jump, or crouch (except when the attack being interrupted is a down tilt).
Auto cancelled moves have 4 frames of landing lag.



Table of Contents:
- Jabs
- Dash Attack
- Tilts
- Aerials
- Smash Attacks
- Specials
- Grabs
- Throws
- Dodges
- Tech and Get-Up Frame Data
- Ledge Options
- Miscellaneous
- Combos



Jab 1

Total: 17
Hit: 2-3
IASA: 16
Window for Next Jab: 3-31
Next Jab Starts: 6 (or later)


Jab 2

Total: 20
Hit: 3-4
IASA: 19
Window for Jab 3: 1-20
Jab 3 Starts: 7

Jab 3

Hits: 3-4, 10-11, 17-18, 24-25, 31-32 (6 frames between each kick)
A full cycle: 36 frames


Dash Attack

Total: 39
Hit: 4-17
IASA: 36


Forward Tilt

Total: 26
Hit: 5-9


Forward Tilt (upwards)

Total: 26
Hit: 5-9


Forward Tilt (downwards)

Total: 26
Hit: 5-9


Up Tilt

Total: 23
Hit: 5-11
IASA: 23

Shield Stun: 11
Shield Hit Lag: 5


Down Tilt

Total: 29
Hit: 7-9
IASA: 28


Neutral Air

Total: 49
Hit: 4-31
IASA: 42
Auto cancel: <3 37>
Landlag: 15
L-Canceled: 7


Forward Air

Total: 59
Hit: 6-8, 16-18, 24-26, 33-35, 43-45
IASA: 53
Auto cancel: <5 49>
Landlag: 22
Lcanceled: 11


Back Air

Total: 39
Hit: 4-19
IASA: 38
Auto cancel: <3 23>
Landlag: 20
Lcanceled: 10


Up Air

Total: 39
Hit: 8-9, 11-14
IASA: 36
Auto cancel: <7 26>
Landlag: 18
Lcanceled: 9


Down Air

Total: 49
Hit: 5-24
Auto cancel: <4 30>
Landlag: 18
Lcanceled: 9


Forward Smash

Total: 39
Hit: 12-21
Charge frame: 7


Up Smash

Total: 43
Hit: 7-15
Head invincible (but not beak): 1-10
Charge frame: 2


Down Smash

Total: 49
Hit: 6-10
Legs invincible: 1-6
Charge frame: 2
IASA: 46


Neutral B: Blaster (grounded)

Total (single shot): 57
Shot comes out: 23
Repeated shots, every: 24 frames


Neutral B: Blaster (airborne)

Total (single shot): 42
Shot comes out: 13
Repeated shots, every: 16 frames
Auto cancels upon landing

Fastfall any time
Laser lasts 99 frames


Side B: Phantasm (grounded)

Total: 59
Falco starts moving away: 17
Hit: 18-21
Time to press B and stop Falco: 17-20
Cancelling on frames 17-18 gives you the shortest Phantasm distance. Cancelling on frame 19 gives you the second shortest Phantasm distance. Cancelling on frame 20 gives you the third shortest Phantasm distance. Phantasm has 4 different lengths (the three shortens listed above as well as the full distance Phantasm).
Can grab edge as early as 25.

Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 3


Side B: Phantasm (airborne)

Total: 59
Falco starts moving away: 17
Hit: 18-21
Time to press B and stop Falco: 17-20
The information for shortens is the same as for the grounded Phantasm.
Can grab edge as early as 25

Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 3


Up B: Firebird

Total: 84
Hit: 43-64
When to Aim: 42

Grabs nearby edges during charge up as early as 16.
Grabs edges during moving part as early as 65 (going straight into wall).
Grabs edges from downward angles.
Grabs edges from either side.

Landlag: 6
Landfallspeciallag: 3


Down B: Reflector (Shine)

Total: 39 (or more)
Hits: 1
Invincible: 1
Reflects: 4-21 or release+1
Lag Upon Release: 19
It can be jump canceled on the same frames it reflects.

Damage: 8%
Hit Lag: 5
Shield Stun: 5

Multishine Frame Data:
1 Shine (hit), Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 Shine (2nd frame)
7 Shine (3rd frame)
8 Start Jump
9
10

11
12

13 Airborne, Shine(hit), Hitlag
14 Hitlag
15 Hitlag
16 Hitlag
17 Hitlag
18(2nd frame)
19(3rd frame)
20
21 Land
22 Start Jump

23
24
25
26

27 Airborne, Shine(hit), Hitlag
Repeat from frame 14.

Opponents have a greater window to escape multishines after the second shine because you spend frames waiting to land on the ground before you are able to jump again. This data is based on a relatively fresh shine. If shine's move staling multiplier¹ is below 0.85, shield stun will last 1 frame less. This means frames 10 and 22 would be red, signifying the opponent is out of stun, instead of green. At maximum staleness, hitlag is 4 instead of 5 and shield stun 3 instead of 5.

¹There are 9 stale spots. Whenever you deal damage with an attack, that attack gets written to the first spot and all previous entries shift down by 1. The first spot decreases the damage dealt by subsequent use of that attack by 9%, the second spot by 8% and so on. If all stale spots contain the same attack, the next use of it will only do 55% of unstaled damage.


SOURCE


Grab

Total: 30
Grab: 7-8


Dash Grab

Total: 40
Grab: 12-13


Throws

{Throw}: {Affected by weight?}
{Released Frame}, {1st Actionable Frame} [{1stAF - Released}]
({Hitbox/es on throw animation if any}; {Other notable info})


The release/total times include hitlag affecting the thrower, so if the animation were to release on 30 but has 3 additional freeze frames during it it'd be listed as 33.

D-Throw: YES
45, 56 [11]
(Lasers on 23, 25, 28, 31;
3 added freeze frames on each when the lasers connect, except for Fox only the first 3 lasers add freeze frames for Falco;
Fox can A/S/DI the last laser hit with 4 frames of hitlag;

hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

U-Throw: YES
7, 39 [32]
(Lasers on 18, 20, 24;
Lasers are A/S/DI-able with 4 frames of hitlag;
hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent;

opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by lasers)

F-Throw: YES
14, 37 [23]
(Hitbox on left arm 10-13; 10-13 hitlag)

B-Throw: YES
9, 39 [30]
(Lasers on 15, 18, 21;
Lasers are A/S/DI-able with 4 frames of hitlag;
hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent;

opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by lasers)

SOURCE


Roll (forwards)

Total: 31
Invulnerable: 4-19


Roll (backwards)

Total: 31
Invulnerable: 4-19


Spot Dodge

Total: 22
Invulnerable: 2-15


Air Dodge

Total: 49
Invulnerable: 4-29


Jumps

First Jump (Full Hop)
Airborne on: 6
Air Time: 51
Earliest FF: 27
FF air time: 41

First Jump (Short Hop)
Airborne on: 6
SH Air Time: 25
Earliest FF: 14
SH FF air time: 17

Second Jump
Earliest FF: 24


Tech and Get-Up Frame Data

Mostly self-explanatory. The "Horizontal Movement At" number is my best judgement of the frame you'd be reading and reacting to for the roll in that direction when techchasing. The higher the number is the less time you'll have after reading it to punish before the roll ends.

In general, the ones with high distance and movement values will be more difficult to punish by reaction, though the size and position of the character matters as well like for Bowser his size effectively negates a fair amount of the distance it covers.

Tech-Neutral
Total: 26
Invincible: 1-20


Tech-Wall
Total: 31
IASA: 6

(Input an upwards direction anywhere on 1-4 for walljump tech on 6)
Invincible: 1-14

Tech-Wall Jump
Total: 40
IASA: 1


Tech-Ceiling
Total: 26
Invincible: 1-14


Non-Teched Floor (Back & Stomach)
Total: 26

Non-Teched Ceiling/Wall
Invincible: 1-15

Getup-Neutral (Back)
Total: 30
Invincible: 1-23


Getup-Neutral (Stomach)
Total: 30
Invincible: 1-23


Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20


Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20


Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19
(Front), 24-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19


Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19


Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 12.8 ft
Invincible: 12-29

(Not a typo. If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-24

SOURCE


Ledge Options

Ledge Stand (<100%)
Total: 34
Invinvible: 1-30

Ledge Stand (>100%)
Total: 59
Invincible: 1-55

Ledge Roll (<100%)
Total: 49
Invincible: 1-34

Ledge Roll (>100%)
Total: 79
Invincible: 1-62

Ledge Attack (<100%)
Total: 54
Invulnerable: 1-21
Hit: 25-34

Ledge Attack (>100%)
Total: 69
Invincible: 1-53
Hit: 57-59

Ledge Jump (<100%)
Total: 57
Invincible: 1-14
Soonest FF: 39

Ledge Jump (>100%)
Total: 57
Invincible: 1-19
Soonest FF: 44

Miscellaneous

Dash becomes Run: 12
Turn-jump Threshold: 14
Run turnaround: 24
Landing Lag: 4

Taunt
Total: 114
Heh!: 2
Whoosh 1: 18
Whoosh 2: 76

 
Last edited:

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
Joined
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Messages
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#2
Even though I can see it is still being fixed as I speak, kudos for the effort.

I already have both stratocaster's system bookmarked along with the SDM frame data stuff bookmarked, but it's an easier way for players to find the frame data specifically for a character like this.
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Amazing Land
#4
dude, fair has a blatantly superior hitbox to nair... why dont we use it?
N-Air

Total: 49
Hit: 4-31
IASA: 42
Auto cancel: <3 37>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

F-Air

Total: 59
Hit: 6-8, 16-18, 24-26, 33-35, 43-45
IASA: 53
Auto cancel: <5 49>
Landlag: 22
Lcanceled: 11



Fair has big gaps, is laggier, comes out slower and doesnt hit below too well.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
#5
right, but it covers way more space in front of and slightly above you and the first hit has pretty useful knockback, so... why dont we use it?
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
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#7
right, but it covers way more space in front of and slightly above you and the first hit has pretty useful knockback, so... why dont we use it?
because when you normally approach people with falco, they arent above you. Theyre either in sheild or on the ground from the pressure.

Think about when players normally fair now: when they opponent is already in the air, exactly where its good.



Why dont we approach with it?

It's slower to start and finish, thus you have much more chance to be sheild grabbed out of it during or after it. It doesn't hit as low, thus it needs to be timed really well to hit a lot of short characters. It has gaps so again more timing issues.

If you think it's better then go for it, you'll notice shortly after it really just isn't that useful of a move to use in as many situations as nair or dair.



I don't see how it looks better, the hitbox looks bigger yes, but thats the ONLY thing that looks better for it. The size doesnt matter if it doesnt hit the right areas in the first place.
 

Strong Bad

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#8
right, but it covers way more space in front of and slightly above you and the first hit has pretty useful knockback, so... why dont we use it?
Pretty much all of the apparent hitbox that Fair has that's above Falco is due to hitbox dragging. The effective hitbox would be significantly smaller if you were nearing the peak of a jump.
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
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Messages
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#9
Pretty much all of the apparent hitbox that Fair has that's above Falco is due to hitbox dragging. The effective hitbox would be significantly smaller if you were nearing the peak of a jump.
Exactly

It is still higher up than Nair, but really it's just not as useful as you think it is FoxLisk. I think you're just looking at the pictures and not the numbers (cause the numbers aint there yet!)

Also bones: i might actually start gathering some more specific frame data as in sheildstun length for certain attacks. I just realised that SDM's stuff doesn't cover that and i'd love to use that info personally.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,147
Location
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#10
Yeah, definitely man. You can just PM me whatever frame data you gather, and I'll add it in the thread. I will credit you obviously. I should be able to finish up adding SDM's frame data tomorrow after my morning class.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
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#11
you guys are nuts and seriously overreacted to my post and still havent answered my actual question of, 'why dont we use it?'
 

SSBM_or_GTFO

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
92
#12
because when you normally approach people with falco, they arent above you. Theyre either in sheild or on the ground from the pressure.

Think about when players normally fair now: when they opponent is already in the air, exactly where its good.



Why dont we approach with it?

It's slower to start and finish, thus you have much more chance to be sheild grabbed out of it during or after it. It doesn't hit as low, thus it needs to be timed really well to hit a lot of short characters. It has gaps so again more timing issues.

If you think it's better then go for it, you'll notice shortly after it really just isn't that useful of a move to use in as many situations as nair or dair.



I don't see how it looks better, the hitbox looks bigger yes, but thats the ONLY thing that looks better for it. The size doesnt matter if it doesnt hit the right areas in the first place.
you guys are nuts and seriously overreacted to my post and still havent answered my actual question of, 'why dont we use it?'
Redact DID answer your question. :/
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
#15
the fair has a great hitbox in front of and slightly above falco. so we should use it when our opponents are in that position instead of always using nair.

your responses were ilke.

"but nair is faster"

"but nair is harder to shieldgrab" which shows a special lack of comprehension

"it's not as good as you think it is" when i hadnt said anything except that we should use fair.

i never said to replace all nairs with fairs or something insane like that. it has a really good hitbox at that point, combos well sometimes, and we should use it. but then i dont give a **** what y'all do, i've been working on implementing it into my game and you can go on about the numbers not being there if you like.
 

SSBM_or_GTFO

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
92
#16
the fair has a great hitbox in front of and slightly above falco. so we should use it when our opponents are in that position instead of always using nair.

your responses were ilke.

"but nair is faster"

"but nair is harder to shieldgrab" which shows a special lack of comprehension

"it's not as good as you think it is" when i hadnt said anything except that we should use fair.

i never said to replace all nairs with fairs or something insane like that. it has a really good hitbox at that point, combos well sometimes, and we should use it. but then i dont give a **** what y'all do, i've been working on implementing it into my game and you can go on about the numbers not being there if you like.
Go to Youtube.

Find a match with PPs Falco.

Watch how he uses Fair.

Learn.
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
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Apr 21, 2007
Messages
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#17
the fair has a great hitbox in front of and slightly above falco. so we should use it when our opponents are in that position instead of always using nair.
Dunno what you’re on about, fair is already used in those situations by a decent amount of falco players, some of the more old school influenced falco's don’t use it but I see it plenty.



"but nair is faster"

"but nair is harder to shieldgrab" which shows a special lack of comprehension

"it's not as good as you think it is" when i hadnt said anything except that we should use fair.

i never said to replace all nairs with fairs or something insane like that. it has a really good hitbox at that point, combos well sometimes, and we should use it. but then i dont give a **** what y'all do, i've been working on implementing it into my game and you can go on about the numbers not being there if you like.
Seeing as you don’t care what we all do, it probably is why you don't realize that a decent amount of falco players already use it in the situations as you describe.

You have to realize everyone has their own style, if you think the move is better then use it, there will always be haters for any style. Use what is best for you, not for someone else.



...i hadnt said anything except that we should use fair.

i never said to replace all nairs with fairs or something insane like that...
dude, fair has a blatantly superior hitbox to nair... why dont we use it?
With your first post in mind... am I supposed to magically know you mean in CERTAIN situations we should use fair instead of nair?

When someone says "A is blatantly better than B, why don’t we use A?" I'm pretty sure everyone will assume that the person wants to completely replace B with A.



But long story short, your posts were poorly explained and thus we could only assume you meant to completely replace nair with fair, which would be silly.

Please explain your posts next time before you say I lack comprehension.
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
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Apr 21, 2007
Messages
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#21
Ha cool I was thinking about approaching with Fair more today.
Ran out of time to do much testing (took me so long to get it all figured out and working)

but Fair creates 6 frames of block stun (this is after the hitstun has finished) then takes 11 frames to recover

11-6 = 5

when done dead set perfectly, there is a gap of 5 frames for the opponent to punish from sheild

some characters can punish it even when done perfectly

you'll probably just get grabbed by everyone though (7 frame gap), or up+b OoS'd


I don't really advise you try to approach with fair, get blocked once and unless you get it perfect you'll get grabbed
 

Strong Bad

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#22
Exactly
Also bones: i might actually start gathering some more specific frame data as in sheildstun length for certain attacks. I just realised that SDM's stuff doesn't cover that and i'd love to use that info personally.
I can calculate shieldstun based on the damage, so don't bother.

LOL @ FoxLisk failing to make a point then going the route of insulting anyone who responds in disagreement.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
#24
i didnt fail to make a point. all i was saying was that people should look into using fair, because dr pp is pretty much the only one who uses it at all that i've ever seen. they then wildly misinterpreted my post and told me fair sucks,t hen when i said i think it has its uses they did a 180 and told me everyone already uses fair.... if anyone had said something like "why do you think that?" or even "i hope you dont mean just replacing nair with fair, but yeah, it has some uses" that would have been fine, i got attacked first though.

anyway, already been warned for this, no need to get infracted. thanks a ton for the images/data, this is cool stuff.
 
Joined
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#32
I don't really advise you try to approach with fair, get blocked once and unless you get it perfect you'll get grabbed
if you don't do the fair perfectly, your opponent will shieldgrab it at their own frame-perfect opportunity and then you'll be grabbed.
 

Beautiful Death

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Dudechorage, AK
#38
Hello yellow!

I looooovvveeee frame data! Mmmmmmm......yeah. Frame data. I don't know why more people don't dig this stuff. Just a measurement of time, really. I think.

Anyway. Question. It's about shield stun. Well actually, I'm really just looking for frame advantage/disadvantage. Yeah yeah. I've looked at Super Doodle Dude's data sheets and stuff a billion times, but I don't see any pluses or minuses, see. And I suppose I could just get a "feel" for it or whatever, but if I just had the numbers I could call it a day and get to the real meat and potatoes since I like never play against people in this game nowadays and Smash doesn't really have a good training mode for testing stuff. Compared to traditional fighting games like SF, Blaz, GG, etc.

So.

1. Is there anyone that could tell me the frame disadvantage of his attacks? Aerials are the important thing here, of course. I suppose just knowing shield stun would be fine. Of course, I am just calling it frame DISadvantage because well, I highly doubt Falco or many characters at all have frame advantage on their moves. That would just be CRAZY, man. Although, I think Peach might. So Peachy.

2. If not, how might I look into it myself? I think I read someone saying they can find shield stun from the damage the attack deals. Is this so?

And so on and so on. I dunno man. I hate doing weird stuff like holding down shield on a second controller with my toe or something and stuff and stuff. And I don't have AR.

HALP
 

GimR

GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
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#39
I need some help with frame Data!

Could any one tell me Falco's frame advantage on hit and shield after he perfectly short hop fast falls a laser?(He lands a soon as the laser comes out)
I have no way of going through melee frame by frame.

For hit just have falco and the opponent shield and see how long it takes for the opponent to put their shield up after falco

For shield, have Falco shield and see how long it takes for opponent to be able to spot dodge

Please help, thanks
 

Strong Bad

行くぜ!
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#40
Do moves stale on shields, or only when they actually hit and do damage?
If the move goes into hitlag, it stales. Hitting shields, hitting a turnip, Boomerang, those 3 parts of Brinstar, etc. all stale moves.
1. Is there anyone that could tell me the frame disadvantage of his attacks? Aerials are the important thing here, of course. I suppose just knowing shield stun would be fine. Of course, I am just calling it frame DISadvantage because well, I highly doubt Falco or many characters at all have frame advantage on their moves. That would just be CRAZY, man. Although, I think Peach might. So Peachy.

2. If not, how might I look into it myself? I think I read someone saying they can find shield stun from the damage the attack deals. Is this so?
[collapse=Shieldstun by damage]Damage . Melee
--------------------------------------------
00 ......... 1
01 ......... 2
02 ......... 2
03 ......... 3
04 ......... 3
05 ......... 4
06 ......... 4
07 ......... 5
08 ......... 5
09 ......... 6
10 ......... 6
11 ......... 6
12 ......... 7
13 ......... 7
14 ......... 8
15 ......... 8
16 ......... 9
17 ......... 9
18 ......... 10
19 ......... 10
20 ......... 10
21 ......... 11
22 ......... 11
23 ......... 12
24 ......... 12
25 ......... 13
26 ......... 13
27 ......... 14
28 ......... 14
29 ......... 14
30 ......... 15
31 ......... 15
32 ......... 16
33 ......... 16
34 ......... 17
35 ......... 17[/collapse]

If the attack is Electric, you'll need to do some math for the hitlag frame advantage (shine I'll just tell you that it gets 2 extra frames of frame advantage from electric hitlag, add that to the 3-5 frames of shieldstun based on how stale it is to figure that out). You should be able to use SDM's frame data for the rest of the work.
Information courtesy of Magus420.


I need some help with frame Data!

Could any one tell me Falco's frame advantage on hit and shield after he perfectly short hop fast falls a laser?(He lands a soon as the laser comes out)

Please help, thanks
Assuming fresh:
On shield:
3 frames of shieldstun, 4 frames of hitlag. +7
Falco lands. -4
On shield: +3.

On hit:
4 frames of hitlag. +4
Falco lands. -4
On hit: 0.
 
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