Fabulous Empire: The Marth and Lucina Game Play Coalition

[Shaya]

I really liked my tipper neutral airs in Brawl :< Tipper first hit would really only not combo into the second hit (usually tippered as well) if they had insane Smash DI, coupled with an awkward vertical scenario for Marth (fast falling, or rising weirdly during someone elses fast fall).
It's different to how I'd use the move in Melee at least. It's definitely this "defensive" choice that's more apparent than in Brawl; slow fall nair is definitely a thing in Brawl, but you'd still aim for the second hit to come out before landing and people would respect forward air as a landing choice so how people deal with it could be... not as good for us as I'd like.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Your mentality is wrong for the engine.

Nerfed air game in smash 4 across the board. Mar Mar still has an aerial for combos and traps.

Thats...kind of a big deal.

Context my friend

 

[Raziek]

Your relentless optimism is endearing.

I only hope we don't see it crushed.

 

[Shaya]

I feel like nair is a very safe aerial in this game from what I've seen though. The reach/angle of the animation almost looks better in some ways [horizontally] than Brawl (although I think we've lost the body hitboxes, nipple tippers and of course my most favourite thing which was 'the longer the move is out the more kill power it has').

I'm basically just scouring through notions that'll actually demand respect from my opponent. I think I could make down tilt/nair work as a core. But it won't be universally sufficient, that's for sure.

Tipper nair not comboing into itself does suck. My whole "our aerials don't kill anymore" thing is still one of those very relevant overarching things.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think it will be universally sufficient. I can't see why they wouldnt be.

Also aerials not kill doesnt phase me. Again, I already have my win condition in mind. I will wait until I get my hands on the game.

And if custom moves are a thing and Storm Breaker works the way I THINK it does, then lolololz.

GG metagame. GG

 

[Shaya]

I'm thinking horizontal dolphin slash and storm breaker.
Maybe Chicken-Dance Blade.

I'll have to check if Horizontal DS still has invincibility on start up; if it does I'm kinda sold on figuring out how to win with it. If it covers this "sweet spot" I'm envisioning in my mind, I could see stuff like ftilt/aerials into DS comboing like, all the ****ing time, maybe even possible to forward throw follow up with it.

The counter variation that gives us a dash or whatever is likely most optimal

(I don't have the game personally, I just stole a DS with recording equipment for 2 days of no sleep), I really now wish I tested things like safety on shield, I shouldn't have let myself get so ****ing upset over the frame data nerfs that I just went NUPNUPNUP and started just playing time-them-out-luls on wifi until I went home. And basic data on his specials would've been really good for my theory crafting at this stage (because I'm relatively convinced of my opinion on his normals).

 

[Emblem Lord]

When I get the game my main goals will be establishing tools that lend themselves to ground dominance and a cohesive gameplan to enforce that. Figuring out his new traps though I feel the nerf to airdodge pretty much does the work for us now.

I will also extensively test Dancing Blade. My gut says this will be the key factor in deciding if he will be high tier or mid tier. If its consistent even 80% of the time, then Marth is good. He NEEDS a go to punishment option.

 

[Raziek]

F-Throw into DS2 seems pretty real, at least from my experience with it. Same with Fair, though not quite at the percent that the DS will kill.

Vectoring will probably **** with that, though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Also guys vectoring doesnt just hurt us.

It hurts EVERYONE

Remember. Context. Relativity.

 

[Shaya]

Multi hit tipper moves ****s us over in ways that Lucina doesn't. That's the context and relativity of VI ****ing us over

F-Throw into DS2 seems pretty real, at least from my experience with it. Same with Fair, though not quite at the percent that the DS will kill.

Good.
If people have to fear immediate dolphin slash out of single hits, then that's just about as much respect as I'd like to have for a character that isn't... bonkers like Lucario.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I mean Lucina IS an option and if the tipper mechanic hurts Marth alot then it is feasible to simply play Lucina instead.

As for Lucario. Meh. Let him be bonkers. Let him have his time. Marth won how many majors in Melee? Chill baby.

Chill.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Idk fam, I'm excited for these two. I think when the dust settles, we'll be fine. We've still got some fundamental tools that just make Marth(/Lucina) good.

I think if we end up as mid-tier, we'll still have many 5/5s and the spread between us and the top won't be too large. Just some impressions based off of how the balancing seems to work in this game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

also i was just watching the matches with azen again. A good chunk of his kills come from air trap scenarios. Literally put DDD in the air DDD took a risk and Marth smashed him into oblivion.

Something to think about.

 

[Circa]

Marth reaches vertically better than Lucina.

You said you no longer have the game, but did you by chance notice in your playing time if Marth's reach was just better than Lucina's in general?

The vertical difference makes sense just in terms of height difference, but what makes me curious is if her arms are just a little shorter. It should technically be a thing, but I don't know if they'd go through with it.

I would think the difference in vertical reach would be a little greater than what you explained, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Shaya]

No idea on that, I would expect not from what I've seen. Or if it is, it's really small, stuff like jab/fsmash hitting on a battlefield platform is really 'pixel perfect' considering those moves go to about head height in their arcs.

 

[Freelance Spy]

No idea on that, I would expect not from what I've seen. Or if it is, it's really small, stuff like jab/fsmash hitting on a battlefield platform is really 'pixel perfect' considering those moves go to about head height in their arcs.

Might be something to do with the tipper hitbox giving marth a tad more reach somehow.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I want to go on record and say i am legit not worried about either of these characters.

Top tier? No. Able to hold their own vs any character? Evidence suggests, yes.

Thats all i need.

 

[grandmaster192]

I want to go on record and say i am legit not worried about either of these characters.

Top tier? No. Able to hold their own vs any character? Evidence suggests, yes.

Thats all i need.

Emblem Lord, you live in the tri-state area, correct? You're facing some of the toughest competition in the scene. If you don't think Marth is going to be a high-tier character, how can you not be worried? Mid-tier characters just aren't very competitive as far as winning goes.

 

[Circa]

His viewpoint on the duo, at least in terms of matchups, is basically describing a Melee Samus situation. A few 4/6s, a couple 6/4s, and a number of 5/5s. Even if we don't see Samus mains winning nationals (anymore), they still hold their own quite well in their respective regions.

That's definitely a situation I'm alright with.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Match-ups is what matters. Not tiers. Bowser is probably top tier but he gets MAULED by strong zoning games. He WILL lose some matches 35/65 maybe even worse.

I do not foresee Marth getting counterpicked to that degree.

That said its been shown that Lucina is more consistent in the one area I feel is needed for either to be high tier. Lucinas Dancing Blade is said to be more consistent with its hits and with the way I envision playing Marth/Lucina, tipper kills with Marth would not be a necessity but icing on the cake. The Dancing Blade consistency is what i would absolutely need for a solid damage dealer and punisher so I need to experiment.

But with the edge trump mechanics I think Marth and Lucina may have virtually guaranteed kills when they get someone off stage. Much testing needs to be done.

 

[Shaya]

So going by that "Japanese tier list", my overall thoughts on Marth/Lucina's spread with those 'top characters': https://game8.jp/matome/14157


1. Sheik
Likely bad, but not unwinnnable. Risk/reward will be severely in her favour IMO, just like Melee, but without us being able to figure out how to crouch cancel grab all of her **** to make the match up more even at top level. In a lot of my rants on viability, Sheik was in my mind. Solid range and speed, mobility capabilities that trump us - extremely competent at running away and being aggressive, her set ups and follow up strings are consistent and that disparity will become noticeable with her punishments/reads on us getting her a lot more than vice versa. Lost the ability to freely gimp/edgehog her. Stuff like down tilt will be a struggle for her in the grand scheme of things, but I feel we need more. Will probably end up being in our top 5 worst match ups.

2. Yoshi
Secretly a hard match up in Melee, a character we destroy in Brawl if they chose to fight us; but at top level they have sufficient run away + safety in their run away to overcome Marth's superior tools. In this game? awkward. Yoshi is still a melee focused character, however he is susceptible to having his double jump stolen and we may have the tools to achieve that. Amidst all of his "bugs", we could really really struggle. I could see it going anywhere match up wise, but I think the ball is in yoshi's court (Yoshi one of those characters I listed pre-release as a potential problem); being able to jump armor through our combos/strings/pressure could consistently counter our zoning/spacing games, being able to jump OoS for yoshi was a significant capability buff.

3. Rosalina
A good match up for us. Although yet to face the fear of a competent one I think all the signs are there for us to be strong/able to achieve it. Rosalina's height and weight is a sore thumb for her against Marth, Marth fair is extremely good in this match up due to this. How we deal with her spacing wise/match up wise will be akin to how we dealt with Snake in Brawl. I think her immediate vertical options are subpar and her dash attack is very easy to space around in the air (imo). Falling neutral air (just like against Snake) will be a struggle for her to deal with.
Furthermore she's a character you cannot grab, and Marth no longer has a grab game to worry about this shortfall as much. Furthermore Luma is an entity our character is more than capable of dealing with.
I'm confident we can achieve some parity with her.

4. Greninja
A rushdown character I don't know enough of other than "kinda like Sheik". Played against it a little bit, and I'm not as worried about him as Sheik as a result. Greninja does not look like he has a flip side camp game that wrecks us, nor specific aerials/normals which by design break through our zoning. Nothing I've seen that will be consistently able to out do proper usage of down tilt. It really depends on how hard this guy ****s us when he gets a hit, I just don't know yet.

5. ZSS
In Brawl this match up was in our favour IMO (but was arguably even or slight advantage ZSS). A really solid keep away game, with many long-ish range set ups tools that wreck us. I struggle to see a single move we have that will be usable against her other than neutral air. We were kinda similar in capabilities in the last game, with Marth's better OoS game being his primary competitive strength that contrasted the two, but Marth's design has been hit with structural nerfs, while ZSS' design is quite the opposite. A better anti-air dash attack (fml), a frame trapping/safe/amazing projectile, reliable kill set ups that will take stocks at like 80-90%, her normals speed/range outdo us. Her down b breaks our pressure/juggle traps way too easily. We have no approach, and lack set ups to deal damage in the match up, and as we don't have the zoning tools against her, she controls the pace and we don't have a means of dealing with her shielding against us. By design and not by some ******** game balance decisions (cough lucario), she will be our hardest match up, bar perhaps Donkey Kong.

6. Bowser
We'll hit him twice as often as he hits as, in theory craft land. The problem is, we'll die after 4 hits, he won't die after 15-20. The foxification makes him so potent against us, as that design allows for constant trading with melee range characters, and Marth cannot win match ups in which he trades unfavourably in. I think in the long run we'll be able to make this match up possible, he still lacks disjoints, he's still big/fat, and his recovery isn't infallible. He could very easily be someone we can combo consistently. However, the sheer bowser factor of having 10 frame moves that kill at 80% on the ground and in the air is going to make this a significant struggle for keeping calm and collected in tournament sets.

7. Lucario:
Marth can gimp this character and potentially win before Lucario gets past 50%. It'll be a very slow/campy match up for Marth at high level, similar to how he would have to deal with Dedede in Brawl. The disparity in range/kill power/punishment will be heavily in Lucario's favour. However, I don't think Lucario has a competent approach on Marth, Luc's dash attack oos will be sufficient a lot of the time, but if that's all we have to respect/expect for rush down (and rolls) we can "manage". In the long run, we'll lose tournaments sets, on a stock by stock count it's probably 6:4 in Lucario's favour, but throughout a 2 or 3 stock game I think it'll tend towards consistent losses due to stock deficit being almost insurmountable to overcome for us, and the opposing scenario being not a significant struggle for Lucario.


Sonic: Probably a disadvantage. Ran even with us in Brawl because of the sheer speed at which Sonic could cover space to punish us, primarily off of power shields. Overall he looks buffed from Brawl, and I'm not seeing this match up being having extra perks we didn't have in the last game.
Fox: Characters with fox normals beat us right? Maybe. I think we reach in places Fox doesn't like getting touched, as we've seen over multiple games. The recovery is definitely gimpable by us. Him being juggled is a lot more likely than other characters due to fall speed and lack of options (shine may stall again, but it is not something we have to respect with significant game play changes). Out of all the fox-rip offs this game, he's actually a light weight. It'll be really interesting how our match ups with Fox/Falco/Sonic/Lucario/Yoshi/Bowser will go, as I think we'll be playing the match up in similar ways against all of them, but will just plainly lose against some but will do fine/maybe even beat others.
Wario: We should still win this match up by design, however I don't believe we get anything out of grab release anymore, which was our only reliable way of killing this fat **** in Brawl. Like this fat **** is such a fat ****.
Duck Hunt: don't ask me, I just don't know. Could be bad.

 

[grandmaster192]

@ Shaya how do you think we fair against Meta Knight and Paluntina?

 

[Shaya]

I feel like MK needs a better control stick to be successful with than Marth does, but that could just be me.
Not really certain how it'll go. I don't think we have to respect Tornado and Shuttle Loop like we have in the past. But his ground game in Forward Tilt, dash attack, dash grab are all really good still, and between two swordsman without really any ubermeisch factors to them, I think in theory MK could still come out on top. But then I think about killing and go "dang, no killing neutral air, likely will never combo us with shuttle loop at kill percent, can't glide to subvert us chasing him off stage and won't gimp us with any consistency (IMO, that's why I think he needs a better control scheme, as stuff like down air, fair and bair look really good on MK, but way too hard to use properly).

Palutena is tall and light-ish weight. She juggles us well though and has a huge grab range (HUGE) with guaranteed follow up, even at kill percent. But I think her grab is slower to compensate (so like Zelda in Brawl, she had second longest grab range after D3).
Very doable I think. Her customs could mess that up by a lot though, but I feel like in that scenario we would just play a game of no commitment/run away and let her dig her own holes for us to capitalise on, hah.
Her tilts seem pretty okay against us, and I don't think dancing blade out disjoints her, meaning we have to [down] tilt to outspace her.
Overall I think she's probably too slow to be a significant issue, but customs could change everything. On the plus side we can outspace her Up Smash OoS too, which if you ever get hit by it, you'll know the pain (you really don't want to get hit by that move).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Most of those chars gotta take a risk to penetrate marths zone. I truly only see ZSS and Sheik as chars to fear. The others have exploitable flaws but we shall see.

 

[GunBlaze]

This is certainly useful...

 

[InfinityCollision]

Too bad a significant portion of the information is wrong, nevermind the extrapolations he makes from said data.

 

[Katakiri]

So when I was updating the moveset thread Thursday night, I noticed something neat about Up-Smash. Its hitbox is very disjointed on each side of Lucina and those disjointed hitboxes do 0.5% more damage than Marth's Tippered Up-Smash. It's also a multi-hit move on the lower hitboxes for whatever reason so Lucina loses 3% damage if she actually manages to tipper the move. Like Roy in a skirt.

It basically just means that Lucina is rewarded more for punishing rolls/whiffs with the move (it has just slightly less reach than Down-Smash anyway) while Marth is rewarded more for juggling or chasing with the move. Fun stuff.

 

[Circa]

That's actually pretty awesome.

Is it just me or does tippering moves straight-out chunk away at shields as Lucina? I mainly noticed it when using dtilt, but I feel like there were a couple other times where tippering moves did something similar.

Either that or I'm going crazy. Either could be right. I've played a little too much.

 

[Rizen]

Hi. I'm curious to see how SSB4 characters rate but too lazy to read the entire thread
If someone could tell me what the differences Marth and Lucina have and who you think is better, if either, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Shaya]

So I did a lot of custom special Marth playing today.

I really wanted crescent to be my baby, my thing, my legendary selling point (like shayair [nair] in Brawl :D), and it may still have some merit, but I think it's looking like default/super jump are a lot easier to handle.
The sweetspot for the move does exist low to the ground, but only at it's near maximum horizontal range, it otherwise is vertical positioning that will give you "easier" sweetspots; opponents dangling above our head height but not over our jump height.
Forward throw to crescent is doable at every percent (including kill percent), and you'll likely sweet spot every time against unsuspecting opponents. Once people give it respect it's a lot less potent, holding upwards won't put you in a position for it to hit unless you jump, making landing the sweetspot very difficult, I could see further work being put into the move here having positive rewards though. It cannot be overstated what potential we have to abuse on opponents who have to fear our grab because of this, and also the way at which opponent's have to DI from the forward throw.
You can throw the move out after hitconfirms nearly all the time, and you'll almost always hit, but it'll likely not sweetspot if they're towards the ground.
You can crescent facing off stage at the furthest lip and hold backwards to grab the ledge. The amount of aerial mobility you have to move BACKWARDS is huge on this.

The main shortfall here is that you lose vertical recovery, and it's going to be very noticeable. If you go off stage to attempt to edgeguard and mess up you can easily die. Run off forward air an opponent and get knicked by a sourspot in the trade? Dead. Do the positives outweigh the negatives? Short answer yes. Long answer; no, there is a much more reliable option available.

The Three Breakers:
This decision here is the most painful. Nearly all of Marth's power in specials feels completely focused to his neutral b variants. If the various property differences were available on any other move, I'd be calling for top tier. One thing is certain about all three though is that the range is amazing, and skilled usage is rewarded, including the ability to charge the move appropriately. The biggest shame is that the two alternatives have absolutely nothing special about them when it comes to hitting shields (makes sense but things would've been monstrously different had their been even minor effects).

The weakest of the three I feel is the storm thrust; which is similar to Mario's Fludd. It doesn't really apply shield pressure at all, it's damage feels very meaningless and I see no particular instance where the windbox is providing us with anything crucial. The charge on the move makes the whirlwind extremely large, however none of which do damage and in terms of relative follow up potential or positional advantage gained, I just do not see it. Does it serve any niche at all? I'm sure it does with such a windbox, perhaps stuff like Shulk and Mac (super armor side-bs) will enjoy being pushed away.
The force that gets put to you and the lag of the move makes it close to unusable off stage. I really do not see any way for us to "push" people away with the windbox offstage without getting ourselves killed and the force of it isn't really enough to stop people anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~

Regular shieldbreaker is great. I believe any minor charge adds shield damage, and any minor extra charge is basically enough to guarantee a break. Tippering with the move uncharged is a very potent killer and it isn't really that hard to do so.It's range and (I'm near certain) transcended priority make it nothing to scoff at.
The way in which opponents get to take away so much of Marth's potency by shielding, even continuing to hold it (due to the lack of ledge/platform knock offs) in real frame trap situations (down tilt/jab) is a huge disappointment. Dash attack and dash dancing blade aren't really competent at handling the back roll away, and both options are destroyed by continuing to hold shield, jumping actions are much easier to react to/wait for and either spot dodge, back roll or shield drop attack (dash attack or whatever).
Grounded or jump forward shieldbreaker is the key to unraveling that scenario in our favour with critical impact. Where grounded is obviously that 5 frames (our jump start up) faster and being transcended/god like range will either trade or beat any non-roll action from your opponent and Jump Shieldbreaker will likely (I say 100% of the time right now) will choose a response that you can react to favourably. Roll away and spot dodges can have charges elongated to cover them, and the priority/range gives us an edge on shield drop attacks.

~~~~~

So what about the dashing version? What can I say about this other than.... GOD DAMN YOU SAKURAI GIVING ALL OF OUR BEST MOVE TRAITS INTO ONE ****ING SPECIAL; because if we had this move + a shieldbreaker, we would be godlike, people would cry about us all day, every day for the next 6 years. I mentioned crescent slash earlier, but when this move exists there really isn't a reason for it. Sure, not a kill move and not necessarily a combo from forward throw/other moves either, but I feel like this move will consistently do us, very very well.
The hitboxes on this move don't make sense. There seem to be particles that move with him as he travels, and those particles have hitboxes. That or this move just hits everywhere. EVERYWHERE. It still retains transcended priority I'm near certain. People get caught up within this move and get pushed along with him, I don't quite get it other than WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW
The sweetspot on the move exists in the early stage of the thrust and does 6% and otherwise is 3%, the 3% difference seems to remain a constant between the two no matter the charge. Above and below him seems to add 1%
It seems to have a set distance traveled, unless fully charged, in which it takes an extra swords' length or so leap forwards which has an extra sourspot that exists that does 9%. It seems to be about 2/3rds the range is sweetspot (16%), with like 1/4 being sourspot (13%) with the extra reach covering the rest at 9%.
This set distance traveled also applies in the air!!!! Marth does not actually fall vertically at all during the travel.
So what does this move achieve for us? It replaces the need for dash attack. It borderline outdoes dancing blade at everything you'd want it do bar damage racking. It is the best out of the three for recovery by distance/time, as should be obvious. It doesn't kill, but the positional advantage gained by hitting with it seems... bonkers.
It's knockback scaling is... very favourable for positional advantage.

My game plan with this is like... hit them with something; ANYTHING, then throw this move out, it takes me and them on a whirlwind journey to the ledge. And that's why this move is broken. We have a two hitter set up that always puts your opponent off stage or having their back to the ledge against us.

I don't have the second counter option yet, but the "dash counter" feels more usable, it covers more distance/range and is also faster. It's still capable of killing, but definitely not as much as the default counter. I think the sheer fact it has a dash tagged on means we're able to punish moves that outrange us otherwise and is hence a more solid choice.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

I think the lunging shield breaker is basically going to be the staple if customs are allowed.

 

[Raziek]

Did you mess around with the Counters at all @ Shaya ?

I played a Marth who used Iai Counter, and that thing looks really useful. It sends them BEHIND Marth, so if you counter someone who's trying to edge-guard they end up in an AWFUL position.

 

[Emblem Lord]

To get the full benefit of Storm Thrust you have to have Dolphin Jump equipped as well.

Shaya you covered what I was going to say about Assault Dash. It just does ****ing...EVERYTHING!!! Let's Marth get in. Has amazing priority due to transcendence, gives him control, lets him take momentum from many characters like Mac, Sonic, Sheik, hell pretty much the entire cast of characters that are considered top tier. Its mind boggling how amazing this attack is. Combined with Dolphin Jump Marth simply is ungimpable as long as you Vector/DI well.

Dolphin Jump is also awesome. It lets Marth go for stupid crazy edgeguard attempts and solidifies him as one of the games best edgeguarders. You lose a great defensive option in Dolphin Slash since you cant Dragon Punch people on block anymore but you make up for it with the offensive potential Dolphin Jump gives you.

Storm Thrust is only good in certain scenarios I'm finding. If opponents couldnt simply block the wind then it would be alot better. Still its good for edge guarding and pushing people out. It takes a lot of precision however and you could probably achieve similar results by just chasing your opponent down and you would have more control as well.

Effortless Blade is good but at higher percents I found my opponents vectoring out fairly easily. I think regular Dancing Blade may be the standard. Heavy Blade is trash. I don't like easy counter either.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

To get the full benefit of Storm Thrust you have to have Dolphin Jump equipped as well.

Shaya you covered what I was going to say about Assault Dash. It just does ****ing...EVERYTHING!!! Let's Marth get in. Has amazing priority due to transcendence, gives him control, lets him take momentum from many characters like Mac, Sonic, Sheik, hell pretty much the entire cast of characters that are considered top tier. Its mind boggling how amazing this attack is. Combined with Dolphin Jump Marth simply is ungimpable as long as you Vector/DI well.

Dolphin Jump is also awesome. It lets Marth go for stupid crazy edgeguard attempts and solidifies him as one of the games best edgeguarders. You lose a great defensive option in Dolphin Slash since you cant Dragon Punch people on block anymore but you make up for it with the offensive potential Dolphin Jump gives you.

Storm Thrust is only good in certain scenarios I'm finding. If opponents couldnt simply block the wind then it would be alot better. Still its good for edge guarding and pushing people out. It takes a lot of precision however and you could probably achieve similar results by just chasing your opponent down and you would have more control as well.

Effortless Blade is good but at higher percents I found my opponents vectoring out fairly easily. I think regular Dancing Blade may be the standard. Heavy Blade is trash. I don't like easy counter either.

Assault dash is crazy good especially when mixed with B-reversing and closing in distance. I pretty much agree with everything about this move.

The only issue I have with Dolphin Jump is it's super weak when being edgeguarded against. Against anyone with a decent edge tool, you will get hit out of it. It's amazing offensively but defensively recovering you better hope your opponent messed up. This might be matchup dependent against characters who need to commit to edgeguard below the ledge.

I can't really see a good use for strorm thrust because assault dash would do the same but better. I can really only see use in the Little Mac Matchup where his armor doesn't stop him from being pushed back.

I'm having problems with all 3 versions of dancing blade due to Vectoring/DI and you're really only lucky to get 2 hits of this move.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you use up version on Dancing Blade and delay the hits you can nail it most of the time. Let the hitstun of the move work for you. Even in tourney I was getting all the hits. You just gotta wait for them to fall into it as you do it.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

If you use up version on Dancing Blade and delay the hits you can nail it most of the time. Let the hitstun of the move work for you. Even in tourney I was getting all the hits. You just gotta wait for them to fall into it as you do it.

Thanks man. I'll try messing with the timing when I get home.

 

[TheJerm]

Its all about Lucinas upsmash and fsmash. Really good kill moves. Ive been developing her game alot and havent had trouble with any match up. Just go in

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah when i was in tourney pepple said my spacing was great but im too respectful. Imma jusr dash at people and swing. Lets see what happens.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Yeah when i was in tourney pepple said my spacing was great but im too respectful. Imma jusr dash at people and swing. Lets see what happens.

When I did that I got shield grabbed.

Anywho, I'd like to post a combo I did but I have no idea how to upload it from my 3ds.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hahaha, well when I swing I will still make sure i space well.