EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Pi]

Unless I'm wavelanding, I usually go to throw out an Uair because it has like NO lag if you Lcancel it lol
Other than that sh double Nair is cool.

Also I'm working on getting into the habit of grabbing after my fairs <3

fair grab is so tight

also i been pulling off some really quick wave bombs on shield, like bomb waveland bomb waveland, like...they're really quite quick o.O

i see possibilities in this
bomb bomb bomb fsmash for a shield break
bomb bomb dtilt for pokes
it's definitely something ima start working with.

samus is so tricks man.

also i wanna start skateboarding again
****ing rodney mullen man..
it's nearly unimaginable what he's done for the sport

 

[duals]

would you guys say that it better to be offensive or more defensive against a fox? Im having a tough time figuring out when i should approach or just hang back.

and any tips for recovering? seems i just get shined no matter what i do.

 

[Geist]

would you guys say that it better to be offensive or more defensive against a fox? Im having a tough time figuring out when i should approach or just hang back.

and any tips for recovering? seems i just get shined no matter what i do.

Approaching with Samus requires a bit of an effort in itself. I never approach like I do with other characters, you kind of have to wiggle yourself in there carefully. In my experience the only time you need to approach is if they're not giving you options, other than that it comes down to a bunch of variables blah blah.
It's always better if you can judge what you should do by experience, based off your playstyle, etc.

samus is so tricks man.

also i wanna start skateboarding again
****ing rodney mullen man..
it's nearly unimaginable what he's done for the sport

So I was trying out random **** in practice.
Here's an idea that caught my attention:
They're on a platform, you're under them, instead of bomb>arial, you bomb> waveland>Fsmash. /****

I don't skate, but my bro used to a lot. Rodney Mullen is amazing.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

for fox

i think you need to PRESSURE
not be aggressive, and not really be "defensive"
you need to hold your ground and try and space right
as soon as they either retreat you exert pressure in however you know how

then again that might be most, if not all her matchups lol

just try to keep the them pressured/scared

 

[duals]

for fox

i think you need to PRESSURE
not be aggressive, and not really be "defensive"
you need to hold your ground and try and space right
as soon as they either retreat you exert pressure in however you know how

then again that might be most, if not all her matchups lol

just try to keep the them pressured/scared

i guess its a obvious question.

but i was watching alukard and hugs play against foxes and they both have different means of approaching and punishing the fox, so i just thought maybe there's more than one way to handle a fox =\

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i wish i could help more

all i can say is you gotta know how to use her tools well...but that's another obvious answer...

i mean for all i know, you already know what to do in specific situations, but you just don't know how to apply them

like recently i got started applying shield dropping correctly (i think lol) and i saw an improvement

 

[duals]

i mean for all i know, you already know what to do in specific situations, but you just don't know how to apply them

that about sums it up, guess its just on me getting practice in.

and is there something in shield dropping i may not be doing correctly?

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

well all i learned was

get off a platform as quickly as possible

obviously you're not going to shield drop if they're below you lol

 

[Pi]

vs fox
the second they let you be aggro
you aggro
it's very profitable

but if they want to be aggro, you play D, cause you're not going to out aggro a fox.

nair is good in that matchup, it's nice to intercept his jumps when you know he's going to jump

fair is a pretty safe pressure (spaced well) if he's on a platform, or even if you're just behind him, also sets up for dtilts and ****

CC is really handy in this matchup, if they don't know you're going to do it cause then they can just time their nair a little late and get a free nair shine follow up

UB is nice obviously, i try to only use it as a reminder though, like when they get to shield pressure happy I'll UB them, usually they'll chill out and you can get some WD OoS.

don't be afraid to trade nair w/ their UB

also, i've found bombs are nice to stop WD OoS punishes vs you

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

I'm starting to get a little worried about Falcos that CC out of my UP+B and tech recover simultaneously. As if dealing with Falco's shield pressure wasn't enough.

 

[Pi]

I'm starting to get a little worried about Falcos that CC out of my UP+B and tech recover simultaneously. As if dealing with Falco's shield pressure wasn't enough.

worst thing about falco by far is his fackin uptilt imo >.>
both my marth friend & falco friend have recently discovered that both of their uptilts are stupid, and have decided to use them to counter everything i have.

also, to maybe rectify problem; play v1 & don't UB at low %?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco is pretty gay like that.

 

[duals]

kay so, was at a tourney today and my practice against fox payed off and beat a couple, but now i have a new match up i need to work on... peach -_-

how do i get her *** off stage? >=(

 

[Pi]

kay so, was at a tourney today and my practice against fox payed off and beat a couple, but now i have a new match up i need to work on... peach -_-

how do i get her *** off stage? >=(

bair, missiles, nair, and utilt

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i likka the utilt on spacies. sets up nice for charge shot

 

[Geist]

I've struggled against Peaches until really recently, when I discovered the biggest thing stopping me from doing well was how gay I was willing to be.
Charge beam those float cancels
Charge beam those Dsmashes
And those turnips >:[

 

[Pi]

I've struggled against Peaches until really recently, when I discovered the biggest thing stopping me from doing well was how gay I was willing to be.
Charge beam those float cancels
Charge beam those Dsmashes
And those turnips >:[

^ this
yup.

play gay to beat a *****

 

[duals]

All right, I'll try to use it next time i face him.

Its also a pain having him throw turnips at my bombs as I'm recovering. Not much You could do i suspect.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

the turnips hitting the bombs, no

the turnips hitting you, yes (nair)

 

[Geist]

There's a bunch of ways around turnips, but most of them just require good spacing, DIing up before hand, etc.
N64 bomb jumps work well if the Peach seems unnaturally adept at sniping, and if you want to be fancy you can aerial the turnips and run into them intentionally to tech the stage.

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

Daddys home!!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11084689#post11084689

 

[Pi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiERQrX40wA

 

[Geist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiERQrX40wA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NMGsRmZTFQ#t=10s

 

[DarrellD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiERQrX40wA

Im seriously impressed haha

I hope you somehow find a way to out camp falco on FD with this

 

[Pi]

Im seriously impressed haha

I hope you somehow find a way to out camp falco on FD with this

rofl

that'll be the day

 

[Pluplue]

I've struggled against Peaches until really recently, when I discovered the biggest thing stopping me from doing well was how gay I was willing to be.
Charge beam those float cancels
Charge beam those Dsmashes
And those turnips >:[

charge beam is insanely good against peach, but this matchup is SO much more spacing based than anything else. I personally think samus has the advantage in this, but you gotta play even MORE patient than normal. Gay huh.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i agree with piplup

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

worst thing about falco by far is his fackin uptilt imo >.>
both my marth friend & falco friend have recently discovered that both of their uptilts are stupid, and have decided to use them to counter everything i have.

also, to maybe rectify problem; play v1 & don't UB at low %?

If only it was that simple. There's literally no answer to Shine-Nair-Shine through shield at low percents, it's ridiculous. Up tilts are also ridiculous as well.

The ultimate bane of my existence is that **** Bair. There is absolutely no way to contest it, EVER. The shield pressure from it is extreme and if spaced perfectly Screw Attack can't do anything.

Luckily most Falcos don't know how domineering their priority is so you can defeat them with smart play and good spacing.


BTW, that black (At that tourney at the ZP) Marth player is your friend right? Forgot his tag but yeah, he knows what moves to abuse.

 

[Pi]

If only it was that simple. There's literally no answer to Shine-Nair-Shine through shield at low percents, it's ridiculous. Up tilts are also ridiculous as well.

The ultimate bane of my existence is that **** Bair. There is absolutely no way to contest it, EVER. The shield pressure from it is extreme and if spaced perfectly Screw Attack can't do anything.

Luckily most Falcos don't know how domineering their priority is so you can defeat them with smart play and good spacing.


BTW, that black (At that tourney at the ZP) Marth player is your friend right? Forgot his tag but yeah, he knows what moves to abuse.

darksonic

i'd call him my friend yea, but i don't play him all the time

the marth i play all the time is Zer0, he didn't go to sfl with me

Hmmmmm

on FF'ers

dthrow -> ftilt -(wavedash)> dtilt/smash (on missed tech)

maybe could work

k
it -can- work, unable to test with DI atm, but dthrow, and if you can get an up-angled Ftilt (knocks them down at the lowest %, and probably sends em at the best angle), you can chase w/ a dtilt, assuming they miss the tech, which they should cause they probably tried to tech the dthrow

normal angle works too, but the % window is smaller (starts higher)

 

[Geist]

There's literally no answer to Shine-Nair-Shine through shield at low percents, it's ridiculous.

light shield plus DI silly

 

[DarrellD]

HMW loves to shield pressure like that haha its a straight ***** to work around =(

 

[Violence]

HMW loves to shield pressure like that haha its a straight ***** to work around =(

I kept trying to upBooS out of that last night and just kept getting hit.

Gotta think on that a bit.

 

[Pi]

woot, mm'd m2k's marth
5$ mm

3 stock'd me on FD
got him down to 2 stocks on BF and he tipper'd me and LARSTART'D THE MATCH, I WASN'T DEAD M2K, YOU HEAR ME???
srsly though, wasn't dead, don't quitout in MM's, but w/e.

any way

it was pretty clear he wasn't warmed up, he was missing fair's OoS to punish my Ftilts, saw some other mistakes he made, but overall I did get to apply some stuff and test some theories out

some things I'd like to note
he didn't gimp me
he gets combo'd like any other marth
marth can pretty much cover all your options from the edge
and every neutral is absolutely horrid for samus vs. marth except for DL64, which of course, they ban.

now whether this was due to him not trying, not being fluent in the matchup, or my buddy nearing the peak of the samus vs. marth matchup, but i didn't see anything new from him.

Overall he just played safer than my friend, didn't leave opportunities for me to attack him, covered his approaches and retreats with well spaced/timed aerials.

landed a few spotdodge downsmash (i hate that this is a viable option)
was able to grab him just like any other marth
downthrow followups worked as normal

i would like to fight him again when he's warmed up and trying

but overall
the matchup is winnable, but we need a hardcore counterpick.

also, bomb on shield is 2good
bomb airdodge grapple mindgame is 2good



being in the air is bad, so bad, so terribly terribly bad
i'm pretty sure i lost a whole stock to juggling

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

light shield plus DI silly

That's nice in a situation where you can get pushed far away and you can Wavedash/Waveland on a platform for repositioning, but it most situations it only resets the scenario. All Falco has to do is SHL to pin you down again in a few seconds.

 

[Geist]

now whether this was due to him not trying, not being fluent in the matchup, or my buddy nearing the peak of the samus vs. marth matchup, but i didn't see anything new from him.

Should have MMd him later on :[

That's nice in a situation where you can get pushed far away and you can Wavedash/Waveland on a platform for repositioning, but it most situations it only resets the scenario. All Falco has to do is SHL to pin you down again in a few seconds.

It's a temporary solution, sure, but if each and every game always comes down to Falco shield locking you, you'd do best to make any opening and take advantage of it.
You're far enough away from him after he Nairs that if he ends up shutting you down with lasers afterwards, it's for the same reasons that he's already been pressuring you beforehand.

I've never actually seen frame data for Nair pillaring, is it actually safer for him than Dair? In terms of UpBing him out of it i mean.

 

[zDuck]

i feel like FD is the best stage for samus vs. marth, at least in my experience

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

dreamland is by far the best

it gives you both the room and platforms to avoid marth with, without the crippling platform control that allows marth to dominate on the other plat stages.

FD is terrible because once he corners you on a ledge, your chances of regaining stage control are slim to none against a smart patient marth.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Any tips on how to SHFFMC? I can barely FHFFMC...


EDIT: Try this out... even though it's near impossible. Bait your opponent to the edge, face toward the edge of the stage and grab. For me it acted like Link's grab and I grabbed him though he was behind me. I didn't throw, or pummel or anything. He just broke out of the grab and almost fell to his death.

EDIT EDIT: I know the Scarjump isn't infinite, but waht about walljump>bomb,bomb>walljump>bomb,bomb> etc.?

 

[Geist]

Any tips on how to SHFFMC? I can barely FHFFMC...


EDIT: Try this out... even though it's near impossible. Bait your opponent to the edge, face toward the edge of the stage and grab. For me it acted like Link's grab and I grabbed him though he was behind me. I didn't throw, or pummel or anything. He just broke out of the grab and almost fell to his death.

EDIT EDIT: I know the Scarjump isn't infinite, but waht about walljump>bomb,bomb>walljump>bomb,bomb> etc.?

SHFFMC requires a similar motion to moonwalking, it just requires more dexterity and consistancy. Remember that you don't have to press down all the way to fast fall.
Then it's all down to practice.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure Samus has a grab hitbox behind her like all the other characters, but when they break out immediately like that, it's because something interrupted the grab. Sounds to me like he was pushing you off the edge when you grabbed, so he would have broke out.

As for the scarjump bombing, it sounds funny, but I don't know if that's very... safe. The whole floaty thing is a bit of a turnoff, but I could imagine the mind****s that could occur if you did the bomb walljump glitch in addtition lol

i feel like FD is the best stage for samus vs. marth, at least in my experience

FD forces a one dimensional approach, and the lack of platforms really sucks for zoning with missiles, etc.
I think FD is the best choice for jiggs though.

 

[Pi]

FD is so bad lol

pretty much exactly what the others have said, and especially what PIMP said

TBH, if all the marth did was shffl fairs at me till I was at the edge, then grab me, it would work like 90% of the time

the only thing I could do would be to UB, then grab the ledge

and like I said

marth can cover all of your options from the edge, getting back onto the stage requires some hefty baiting if the marth is patient. The hugs recovery thing is nice though, but countered by the marth standing closer.

Whatever you do you need to do it quick, whether you shoot projectiles from the edge, aerial interrupt, waveland (honestly i think this is a terrible option lol), roll (again...awful), stand up (always has pretty good success with this, but if it gets predicted you're gettin hit), fair (some how, after all these years, still effective)