EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Pi]

on big chars (ganon/dk/bowser, but mostly ganon)
fair into fair into fair into fair into fair into fair into fair (k maybe not that much)
but yea
if you have plats to rise on it's pretty funny, and looks sick, constant burning

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Man the problem with Ganon is if you're close enough to keep a fair or uair chain going, he can usually get out an uair between your moves. And if you're double jumping to keep it going, that can be a huge problem (aka a stock loss).

 

[TemPesT-]

Samus players should have shield hitstun timing down pretty well, since we UB OoS.

okay you guys how about this for a reason then... if you DO try and jump OoS then bomb, if the bomb misses your not exactly in a good position. however if you shield drop and bomb and the bomb misses, you'll fall through and at least be in a slightly better position.

 

[Geist]

If I bomb OoS I'm in the exact same position I would be had I bombed normally, assuming I did the timing right. DIing back seems like it would fix that problem.
I don't know about you, but when I try to fall through the platforms, Samus slides around in her bomb animation on top of the platform instead. Which is actually pretty useful when it happens.

 

[edgeluca]

on big chars (ganon/dk/bowser, but mostly ganon)
fair into fair into fair into fair into fair into fair into fair (k maybe not that much)
but yea
if you have plats to rise on it's pretty funny, and looks sick, constant burning

Yeah I do it alot lol

I might be going to Vancouver for art school around that time :D

OMG
Awesome
You better ditto me!

 

[Pi]

Man the problem with Ganon is if you're close enough to keep a fair or uair chain going, he can usually get out an uair between your moves. And if you're double jumping to keep it going, that can be a huge problem (aka a stock loss).

Losing a DJ on ganon is balls indeed. I ****ing hate his edgeguard.
I tested in training a bit, because I've had success with it, and felt the window for escape (if there was one) was small, and there were situations in which I was able to get fair's to combo into fairs.

The actual chaining of the fairs is super situational, and I couldn't really give you a cut and dry method of doing it, depends a lot on how they DI the first/second/third Fair, if you have platforms to work with - how close you are to landing on them, if the last hit of your fair hits (how they DI that), if you have your DJ, a bunch of stuff.

But don't underestimate the hitstun of Fair, fair grab, fair uptilt, fair nair are all combo's.

Uair on the other hand is such a tease.

okay you guys how about this for a reason then... if you DO try and jump OoS then bomb, if the bomb misses your not exactly in a good position. however if you shield drop and bomb and the bomb misses, you'll fall through and at least be in a slightly better position.

In theory it would be probably the best way to bomb OoS, if bomb OoS was good.

Bomb's are really slow to come out, 10 frames from initiating the move.

I do use them every now and again, generally when I am shielding and my opponent is DDing too close, retreating bomb OoS is a good way to get distance.


Also IIRC Bomb dair does not combo?
Bomb nair does in some situations (DI dependant)
I would like to apply shield dropping into my game, but accidentally spot dodging can be a real ***** @.@.





P.S. I'm applying SHFFM into my game more and more. They are good.
Oh, picture this;
SHFFM
Marth is SH/FH over it, DI'ing down to FF an aerial, I catch him with a nair, nair hits him into the missile.

 

[Rat]

Hey spaceballs (summon: Ihavespaceballs),

So I was talking to tink yesterday and he said that you messed his marth up. He also said that you did so with bombs. Could you explain in a bit more detail your bomb usage against marth?
(I understand that you play whimsically but hopefully there is some rhyme or reason behind your moves.) (Also I'll try some bomb shenanigans soon, I just didn't have the time to test bombing his marth)

I almost never use use bombs in general even. My current bomb usage is:
1) Change timing/direction when falling down
2) Change timing and hurtbox size when recovering
3) To recover (duh)
4) When they are in their shield on a platform
5) As a sort of combo escape. (Like if I DJ out of fox's upthrow alot and they read it and punish, i'll just do a bomb instead.)
6) As a bad edgeguard (if I'm feeling goofy)
7) I use them alot against ICs. (cause I shoot groves of missiles, and having a way to protect your landing spot is good.)

Also could you other samus people explain bombs to me? I generally thought bombs where bad. Even bombing their shield is weak (they can just jump out of their shield and punish you. Also it puts you above them.)

 

[Geist]

Bombs are legit. Watch Mike Nasty lol
If you're using bombs properly, your opponent won't be shielding them. And if you wd after the bomb explodes, you won't be positioned over them. Remember, after the bomb explodes on you you can pretty much cancel it with anything ASAP.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i hate using bombs against computers cuz all it does is reset them and they do stupid things out of it like fox upsmash -_-

 

[AntoPark]

SAMI.
What're your opinions of wobbling?

 

[rhan]

I would like to think I've gotten better since Pound 4..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYIicNOQauA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fopccPPP3YE

If you want mute the commentary. We're all fools. Or if you want you can just pretent we was all high playing smash brothers.

Oh btw: Gimme advice.

 

[Geist]

SAMI.
What're your opinions of wobbling?

If you let ICs set you up AND you got grabbed, it's fair game. ICs can 0-death without wobbling from a grab anyways, so I don't understand the big deal. Obviously using wobbling to time out should constitute as stalling, considering they only need to get you to 150 before they can straight up kill you with Dsmash/Usmash/whatever.

Oh btw: Gimme advice.

Pretty nice Samus.
It's kinda hard to give a good critique when you're winning the match though. You only lost the second one because you didn't recover as well as you should have. I'd work on that grapple problem. If you're too low to directly sweetspot on the ledge you can still grapple lower so you sweetspot from the pull-up.
You got combo'd pretty badly in the beginning of the second vid because of bad spacing, but other than that you did a good job of keeping Marth out of range (so to speak).
That's my two cents.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i remember hugo making the argument that he was against wobbling because it is so dramatically game-changing

not the best summary of what he said but yeah


in any case, they can 0-death samus? how?

 

[Geist]

It was like a combination of nana's dairs/fairs while being held by Popo, with a few handoffs thrown in, ending with a Dsmash. It was horrible.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i thought samus could get out of that
at least i think i remember someone notable saying people DI it wrong, and fly saying it's DI dependent
i dunno though

 

[Geist]

I've never heard about that. o.o
I was honestly caught off guard, I probably didn't try to DI. I know you can't DI out of handoffs though, if they're timed right.

 

[ph00tbag]

Most characters can get out of IC's grab nonsense.

Honestly, "dramatically game-changing" is no reason for something to be banned, I think. The game changes all the time. Double shines are pretty game changing, and no one's complaining about them.

 

[ph00tbag]

Most characters can get out of IC's grab nonsense.

Honestly, "dramatically game-changing" is no reason for something to be banned, I think. The game changes all the time. Double shines are pretty game changing, and no one's complaining about them.

 

[Alukard]

Most characters can get out of IC's grab nonsense.

Honestly, "dramatically game-changing" is no reason for something to be banned, I think. The game changes all the time. Double shines are pretty game changing, and no one's complaining about them.

but its not just because the spacie grabbed any character in the game...

 

[edgeluca]

I think it's fine, afterall, ice climbers can 0-death with a grab anyways. They need it to make up for what they lack I suppose.

 

[ES Lite]

Ice Climbers?
All you do is point out a distraction and your out of the grab.
/discussion

 

[ES Lite]

double post ftl

 

[Dynamism?]

Nanas shoe's untied.
There, you win.

Better yet...


Don't get grabbed.

Easier done than said.

 

[edgeluca]

Nanas shoe's untied.
There, you win.

Better yet...


Don't get grabbed.

Easier done than said.

I'm no longer a premium member

 

[Geist]

So why'd you quote Dynamism lol
That kinda sucks, now I don't get to see my name under yours anymore.

Oh wait yeah ICs and grabs and stuff

 

[Pi]

Wobbling is stupid & gay and it won't teach you a **** thing and you won't be the best with it and if you use it you're a scrub nub who isn't good at the game and you shouldn't feel proud about winning.

That being said

It's not broken, and doesn't warrant a ban.

 

[Geist]

lmao that's pretty much how I feel about it.
You won't see good IC's using it
and you shouldn't be losing to bad ICs

 

[Dynamism?]

I'm no longer a premium member

What is a premium membership for anyway?

So why'd you quote Dynamism lol

Yeah really, what's up? lol

It's not broken, and doesn't warrant a ban.

If someone's relying on it, then they're failing.

You won't see good IC's

Fixed?
ICs are lame. Boring things nobody should play them.

Ganon is even lamer. Funner to watch then to play as or against. Lulz character really.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

Funner to watch then to play as or against. Lulz character really.

i was going to make a joke referencing the quote in your sig and what you said here, but i am clearly unfunny...so.....................................

 

[edgeluca]

What is a premium membership for anyway?

I got it to change my name originally but I grew to love the lime green name color
And I quoted you cause I <3 you no homo

 

[resTy]

Wobbles the Phoenix wobbles and I'm pretty sure he's really good ;')

Spoiler

And name searches.

 

[Geist]

But Id lose to him anyways, so I really have no problem with that.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Hey spaceballs (summon: Ihavespaceballs),

So I was talking to tink yesterday and he said that you messed his marth up. He also said that you did so with bombs. Could you explain in a bit more detail your bomb usage against marth?
(I understand that you play whimsically but hopefully there is some rhyme or reason behind your moves.) (Also I'll try some bomb shenanigans soon, I just didn't have the time to test bombing his marth)

I almost never use use bombs in general even. My current bomb usage is:
1) Change timing/direction when falling down
2) Change timing and hurtbox size when recovering
3) To recover (duh)
4) When they are in their shield on a platform
5) As a sort of combo escape. (Like if I DJ out of fox's upthrow alot and they read it and punish, i'll just do a bomb instead.)
6) As a bad edgeguard (if I'm feeling goofy)
7) I use them alot against ICs. (cause I shoot groves of missiles, and having a way to protect your landing spot is good.)

Also could you other samus people explain bombs to me? I generally thought bombs where bad. Even bombing their shield is weak (they can just jump out of their shield and punish you. Also it puts you above them.)

I don't really feel like I wrecked him. I won both games, but they were still close, and it helped that we played on two of my favorite stages (we stage struck to Battlefield and then he cp'd Yoshi's).

As for bomb usage... I think he might be blowing that out of proportion. As I recall (and I played a bunch of Marths that day, so I could easily be mixing up matches in my head), I got one or two cool bomb -> aerial links, and maybe a bomb on his shield on a platform -> dair shield poke. Nothing too revolutionary, just followups and pressure that only worked because he was being too defensive instead of reactive.

 

[Rat]

thanks for the reply spaceballs!

Yeah I was wondering if you were just mixing it up with the bombs.

Also that's too bad that there wasn't some revolutionary new thing. =( I was hoping.

 

[ph00tbag]

if you use it you're a scrub nub who isn't good at the game and you shouldn't feel proud about winning.

To be perfectly honest, statements like this are why the Smash community still isn't taken seriously by other fighting game communities. Not in the least because "scrub" is applied to the person least likely to be called a scrub in any other community. The wobbler is playing to win, clearly. So why is he/she a scrub?

But that's not even the problematic part. The worst it that it is a logical fallacy in willful ignorance of fact. Good IC's use wobbling. I've seen Wobbles the Phoenix use it. I've seen Fly Amanita use it. I've seen ChuDat try to use it when he had no other option, but he failed hard. The fact is, it's a tool, and a truly good IC's will use every tool they have to win.

Personally, I think wobbling is literally broken in that it completely circumvents a game mechanic to create an inescapable 0-death punish. But I don't think it's overcentralizing or ban-worthy in the slightest, because I've never seen, and will never see, someone winning solely because of it.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i think he might have been joking

i dunno if you already knew that and just wanted to make a point



i think

(i read it as a joke given his following statement that it's not broken at all and doesn't warrant a ban)

 

[Pi]

Another great use for bomb is a last minute 'oops I messed up let me fix it' is when you have jumped toward your opponent, and they about to shield your aerial, you can bomb on their shield instead of using your second jump to correct yourself. Then you can aerial behind them, or just back away, or waveland or something.

Foxes do this a LOT with shine, but they always jump out of it.

 

[Pluplue]

Well I see how foxes can do that, but samus is too slow in the air. ever time I try that (which is really rare : P) I get hit by an air attack outta shield

 

[Pi]

Well I see how foxes can do that, but samus is too slow in the air. ever time I try that (which is really rare : P) I get hit by an air attack outta shield

I'm not advocating you approach a grounded opponent with an aerial whilst they are entirely free to act, but if you misjudge the time they are going to be vulnerable and realize too late that your aerial is going to get shielding, you can bomb instead and not get shield grabbed.

 

[Pluplue]

yeah I suppose it could be used as an "escape route" but bombs have almost no shield stun. so if they read it, you'll most likely get hit