Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[FE_Hector]

@ The Young Izzy Iz
Yeah, I suppose it's pretty cool practice, but I'd like to see that Marth in action.

 

[AudioSilver]

@circuspig @ FE_Hector @ AudioSilver

Beware terrible skill level. Recorded this at 5 in the morning using 20XX meaning this is on an xbox controller not GC, that's why I'm having trouble with short hopping. The missed L-cancel's are completely my fault though and so is the mispaced aerials. The first video is me practicing a bunch of spacing against an AI. I set it up so that he'd shield-grab every time I did shield damage. When I get grabbed that's because I mispaced the aerial. The second video is me attempting to practice L-canceling. Whenever I flash white after the aerial I got the L-cancel, whenever I flash red I missed it. I think later on I start doing a lot of nairs at center stage, that's to practice the auto-cancel timing for nair out of shield.

Let me know what you think. I understand I did horrible here so I'll try to upload a better video when I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQITkhl8ig = Spacing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adx6L8uYYLc = L-canceling

The spacing practice is very important to any Marth main. Overall, not bad. It would be interesting to see a match, even if it is against AI.

 

[DeadPigeon]

@circuspig @ FE_Hector @ AudioSilver

Beware terrible skill level. Recorded this at 5 in the morning using 20XX meaning this is on an xbox controller not GC, that's why I'm having trouble with short hopping. The missed L-cancel's are completely my fault though and so is the mispaced aerials. The first video is me practicing a bunch of spacing against an AI. I set it up so that he'd shield-grab every time I did shield damage. When I get grabbed that's because I mispaced the aerial. The second video is me attempting to practice L-canceling. Whenever I flash white after the aerial I got the L-cancel, whenever I flash red I missed it. I think later on I start doing a lot of nairs at center stage, that's to practice the auto-cancel timing for nair out of shield.

Let me know what you think. I understand I did horrible here so I'll try to upload a better video when I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQITkhl8ig = Spacing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adx6L8uYYLc = L-canceling

Try to practice your spacing with different jumps (horizontally) instead of just doing the neutral short hop. It's pretty simple to space like the way you are in the video. It's essentially the same as getting tipper forward smashes when your opponent isn't moving. Not too hard.

 

[Brave Little DeCoste'R]

Refrenece: DeCoste'R or DCR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOLR-D0gLgg

Thought I might as well post something here.

This was my most recent streamed set vs Nikabod (Oregon). It went to game 3 and I feel like there were just a few punishes he had that really wrecked me. My friend told me that my stage control wasn't too great in this set.

Wondering what you guys think of it.

Thanks

also if you're just going to watch one game i'd watch game 2, which starts at 3:16.

 

[FE_Hector]

Refrenece: DeCoste'R or DCR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOLR-D0gLgg

Thought I might as well post something here.

This was my most recent streamed set vs Nikabod (Oregon). It went to game 3 and I feel like there were just a few punishes he had that really wrecked me. My friend told me that my stage control wasn't too great in this set.

Wondering what you guys think of it.

Thanks

also if you're just going to watch one game i'd watch game 2, which starts at 3:16.

From what I saw, you had a few small issues.

Styling - When he's recovering with Firefox, it's far from necessary to attempt to dair him. Wait for him to get close and roll up. The roll extends the time the game has you registered as invincible and with control of the ledge.

Hard reads - If he's above the ledge activating Firefox and you don't have time to react and gimp him, I would wavedash off and grab the ledge. Without that option, wait for him to start moving and react. It's way safer than trying to guess what he's gonna do and granting him center stage because of it.

Bad edgeguards - This goes along with what I said earlier. No need to style or read, just handle it safely and effectively. A lot of the time, simply wavedashing off and rolling up is the easiest way to handle the situation. Who cares if it's predictable if it works?


On a side note, and I grow tired of saying this, your Marth is much better than mine, so my advice may be misinformed.

 

[AudioSilver]

@ The Young Izzy Iz @ FE_Hector

Thanks to both of your input and intense studying on my side, I finally figured out the only major flaw in my gameplay. (I was holding the L button too long after a Wavedash, which made me receive shield lag without actual shielding. The rest is many smaller flaws...)

I still have a ways to go, but I've made great progress and got better than I ever was at Brawl. (And better than I could imagine at Melee and Project M.)

Hopefully sometime soon, I'll be able to share some videos of play.

Thank you both again very much!

 

[FE_Hector]

@ The Young Izzy Iz @ FE_Hector

Thanks to both of your input and intense studying on my side, I finally figured out the only major flaw in my gameplay. (I was holding the L button too long after a Wavedash, which made me receive shield lag without actual shielding. The rest is many smaller flaws...)

I still have a ways to go, but I've made great progress and got better than I ever was at Brawl. (And better than I could imagine at Melee and Project M.)

Hopefully sometime soon, I'll be able to share some videos of play.

Thank you both again very much!

No problem, Silver.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

@ FE_Hector @ AudioSilver @ DeadPigeon

@ The Young Izzy Iz
Yeah, I suppose it's pretty cool practice, but I'd like to see that Marth in action.

Wish granted.
Set 1 The Izzy Iz vs Blaze

Fox Game 1

So the first thing I realized about 30 seconds into the match was that Dash Dancing was basically destroying this guy. He didn't know how to react to the constant pressure and it was pretty much grab -> combo -> re-grab -> death all game. Another thing you're going to notice through this game and the rest of the matches is that I flubbed my JC grabs constantly. This is mostly due to the xbox controller, hopefully I'll be able to get a GC controller adapter soon.

Fox Game 2

So this game he started abusing Fox's side-B which was an issue until I adapted around the 1:00 mark. From there I was able to bait it out with the dash dance. Instead of dash dancing forward back forward I baited with the forward into foxtrot which seemed to work just about every time and I got a couple of good grabs off because of this.

Set 2 The Izzy Iz vs Blaze

Link Game 1

So the highlights of this game are really the great ledge-stalls I did around the middle-mark that let me get back on stage for free. Most of the game is either me 0-60ing him into some kind of kill move or me getting dunked on relentlessly, I had great survival DI though so the last part didn't matter too much.

Link Game 2

By the time we got to this game I was pretty far into his head. I was reading a lot of his back-rolls/techs and just running all the way into re-grab. I did a lot of raw F-smashes this game mostly because I just wasn't getting punished/punished hard and the pay-off for the successful reads was enormous. I had a little trouble around the beginning/middle when the boomerang came into play because I wasn't ready but I eventually adapted. Most of the time I was able to either short-hop non-FF fair over it (because he never angled it) or run-up shield into forward roll grab / dash dance grab.

(Working on getting these games up right now)

Set 3 The Izzy Iz vs Ebola-chan

Marth Game 1

So right off the bat I realized I was getting read/punished on my risky dash dances a lot more so after about 30 seconds or so I started mixing things up with SHFFL fairs and other options. Game wasn't going to badly for my opponent until around the last minute or two. I got a ramen noodle at the edge and he started making poor decisions / trying to style which very quickly cost him the game.

Ganondorf Game 1

Match wasn't difficult, just the fact that Ganondorf's hits are so meaty. He got a D-Smash in the first ten seconds which put me at 30% and I think that caused me to start playing a little more defensively (usually I'm hyper aggressive). You can see me try to put up a wall of fairs/d-tilts and a few grabs which for the most part got punished with raw Ganon fairs: not my proudest moments. At one point we both do a stare down and I read an approach (his down-b) and punish with a wavedash back f-smash which felt pretty good. Mostly though this game was really sloppy on my part and I mostly won because my opponent made poor decisions at the ledge / got readable at the end of the match. Gonna' chock this one up in the 'loss' folder regardless of what the stocks say.

 

[AudioSilver]

@ FE_Hector @ AudioSilver @ DeadPigeon

Wish granted.
Set 1 The Izzy Iz vs Blaze

Fox Game 1

So the first thing I realized about 30 seconds into the match was that Dash Dancing was basically destroying this guy. He didn't know how to react to the constant pressure and it was pretty much grab -> combo -> re-grab -> death all game. Another thing you're going to notice through this game and the rest of the matches is that I flubbed my JC grabs constantly. This is mostly due to the xbox controller, hopefully I'll be able to get a GC controller adapter soon.

Fox Game 2

So this game he started abusing Fox's side-B which was an issue until I adapted around the 1:00 mark. From there I was able to bait it out with the dash dance. Instead of dash dancing forward back forward I baited with the forward into foxtrot which seemed to work just about every time and I got a couple of good grabs off because of this.

Set 2 The Izzy Iz vs Blaze

Link Game 1

So the highlights of this game are really the great ledge-stalls I did around the middle-mark that let me get back on stage for free. Most of the game is either me 0-60ing him into some kind of kill move or me getting dunked on relentlessly, I had great survival DI though so the last part didn't matter too much.

Link Game 2

By the time we got to this game I was pretty far into his head. I was reading a lot of his back-rolls/techs and just running all the way into re-grab. I did a lot of raw F-smashes this game mostly because I just wasn't getting punished/punished hard and the pay-off for the successful reads was enormous. I had a little trouble around the beginning/middle when the boomerang came into play because I wasn't ready but I eventually adapted. Most of the time I was able to either short-hop non-FF fair over it (because he never angled it) or run-up shield into forward roll grab / dash dance grab.

(Working on getting these games up right now)

Set 3 The Izzy Iz vs Ebola-chan

Marth Game 1

So right off the bat I realized I was getting read/punished on my risky dash dances a lot more so after about 30 seconds or so I started mixing things up with SHFFL fairs and other options. Game wasn't going to badly for my opponent until around the last minute or two. I got a ramen noodle at the edge and he started making poor decisions / trying to style which very quickly cost him the game.

Ganondorf Game 1

Match wasn't difficult, just the fact that Ganondorf's hits are so meaty. He got a D-Smash in the first ten seconds which put me at 30% and I think that caused me to start playing a little more defensively (usually I'm hyper aggressive). You can see me try to put up a wall of fairs/d-tilts and a few grabs which for the most part got punished with raw Ganon fairs: not my proudest moments. At one point we both do a stare down and I read an approach (his down-b) and punish with a wavedash back f-smash which felt pretty good. Mostly though this game was really sloppy on my part and I mostly won because my opponent made poor decisions at the ledge / got readable at the end of the match. Gonna' chock this one up in the 'loss' folder regardless of what the stocks say.

Overall, not a bad performance! I can only imagine how difficult it would be for me to use an Xbox Controller for Melee, especially because of how much tech skill I use. Getting that GameCube Controller Adapter sounds like a great idea.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

Overall, not a bad performance! I can only imagine how difficult it would be for me to use an Xbox Controller for Melee, especially because of how much tech skill I use. Getting that GameCube Controller Adapter sounds like a great idea.

The plan is to get better recording software so I can catch the audio too then record some local matches. If I get far enough along I might get some microphones/headsets and set up a stream or something. All kinda' floating around in my head for now.

 

[AudioSilver]

The plan is to get better recording software so I can catch the audio too then record some local matches. If I get far enough along I might get some microphones/headsets and set up a stream or something. All kinda' floating around in my head for now.

I'm still working on getting the visuals of my matches out. I'll probably end up just using my phone to record the screen, regardless of bad quality.

 

[FE_Hector]

I'm still working on getting the visuals of my matches out. I'll probably end up just using my phone to record the screen, regardless of bad quality.

Lol, my videos have been recorded with a camcorder on a tripod, courtesy of my bro. I'll watch your vids later, Izzy, I'm not home right now and I want to properly critique you

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

Lol, my videos have been recorded with a camcorder on a tripod, courtesy of my bro. I'll watch your vids later, Izzy, I'm not home right now and I want to properly critique you

Don't go easy on me, I want you to bring the pain.

xD

 

[FE_Hector]

Don't go easy on me, I want you to bring the pain.

xD

You ask for the pain, you get it! lol

Match 1 (vs. Fox R1):

• 0:42 Great idea attempting to utilt him, but you waited just too long. If you want to buy yourself a bit more time, try doing a SH into uair. Preferably don't FF the SH because if you need to, you can easily manage to do a late uair because of Marth's amazing range.
• 0:54-56 Um... all I have to say is that I don't even consider usmash an option of Marth's. It's got a super tiny hitbox and I really don't think it's too good of an idea overall. Although I will admit I'll use it if I miss a rushed utilt.
• 0:58 When he landed, you totally whiffed that fair. I'd suggest having a bit more patience and not being greedy for the KO. If you'd waited a little bit longer, then you could have either gotten the fair, or Fast Fallen through the stage a bit and uair'd him.
• 1:13 Insult to injury, you actually charged the usmash. Tsk tsk.
• 1:20-28 You seemed to be using a lot of dash attacks. If you miss, it leaves a lot of characters a really large window to punish you. I'll use it sometimes, but I tend to opt for Dash Canceled dtilts. They're way faster and moving your opponent back is always useful.
• 1:48 Did you not see that he was getting Illusion ready, or did you not have time to react? Typically what I'll do if I have time to react is just light shield, ftilt him out of it, spot dodge, or jump over it and have an attack ready where he's gonna stop.
• In general, you had a lot of random fsmashes. I'm sure you know how suboptimal they can be, so don't use them unless you're super confident that you can hit. Also, when he was rolling near the start of the battle, I'd say that knowing where his roll was going to stop and punishing him there is a good idea. DD -> grab was an excellent one, though.

Match 2 (vs. Fox R2):

• 0:06 Right after the fail exchange (you tried a grab, he tried a dsmash), I would have just fsmashed him. Just fsmashing out of the blue like that would have been a really good idea imo. Your dash was a good idea, but I think that the fsmash would have allowed for a really solid, quick KO provided you edgeguarded properly.
• 0:34 Again with the impatient utilt. You've gotta wait until they're in your range to hit. Alternately, if they opt to DI behind you and don't techroll away, the utilt range behind him is a guaranteed tipper, making it super useful.
• 0:35/36 My typical way for handling rapid jabs is to CC -> dtilt until it connects. It requires taking a bit more damage, but it's better imo than DIing away from them and letting them think that the rapid jab was a good idea.
• 0:40-56 Those Illusions were absolutely ridiculous. Like I said earlier, spot dodge, ftilt, jab, roll back -> any punish you want. Any of those options work against the move unless he opts to shorten it, which I've only seen him do once - in the first battle.
• 0:57 Props to that fsmash. Not sure he knows that there's a ridiculous wait period before you're actually capable of doing anything if you jump up form the edge. Excellent reaction.
• 0:59 Also love the taunt!
• 1:05 Missed tech. Ouch
• 1:08 Lucky you he didn't know about the ridiculously long fair that Fox and Falco share. Dumb move has 5 kicks in it and you can barely get through the whole move if you double jump.
  
• 1:21 Just missed that follow-up. If you know which way he's going to roll, that's when I'd suggest using a dash attack. It seemed like that was the one time you decided not to use it.
• 1:25 Grab the attempted Illusion, an option I don't think I've ever seen before. Beautiful
• 1:30 Attempted reverse fsmash on what you thought was gonna be a roll. Excellent idea, but I'd suggest going for something way safer like a dtilt.
• 1:35 Getting hit by that dsmash while you were going for a CC/dtilt on whatever he was going for is downright dangerous, as I'm sure you noticed. That's something you've gotta be wary of against Fox and Falco. I'd suggest using a short DD -> WD forwards -> dtilt as it's a much safer option.
• 1:42 Again with the darn usmash.
• 1:45 Excellent job forcing him to whiff that dair. I think he actually had a recovery option left, so I wouldn't have suggested rolling up so early, but it was a good job overall.
• 1:58 If you play with the volume on (I always do), listen for the sound effect that signifies the start of the Illusion. It gives you much more time to react to him than watching his movement, which is rather subtle.
• 2:01-04 Excellent job turning the tables on him, but that was one of the latest reverse fsmashes off of back throw I've ever seen. Watch for his movement and react to that if you can't get it off fast enough
• 2:08 That's what I was talking about re: the ledge. I say you should just WD back so you can grab the ledge, then roll up. Until basically the end of Marth's roll animation from the ledge, the game registers it as his still holding the ledge, and combined with the invincibility gained from the roll, it's an extremely safe option.
• 2:22 Same situation as above
• 2:30 Your opponent keeps on using those dumb aerial dodges over the ledge. Good job scaring him!

Match 3 (vs. Link R1):

• 0:02 White Marth? Disgusting! Note: personal preference.
• 0:00-30 I'd say that your trades were good. Link can be weird to fight against because so few people know exactly how he works, but you're doing an excellent job at optimizing reactions due to Marth's insane KB off of tippers, especially those beautiful ftilts.
• 0:31 Any idea why he used that dair? Lol, free edgeguards!
• 0:47 Be careful with your spacing on those fairs. He might have shielded it, but it wouldn't have gotten you anything anyway. I would have moved back partway through the jump to keep him guessing, or kept on moving so you could dair him.
• 0:50 The landing on that second jump went straight into his grab. Be wary of his ridiculous range with that.
• 1:07 You whiffed another fsmash. If you were just a little bit more forwards, then you could've landed it. While I don't suggest using it too much in matches like you've been doing, learn to space it better. Lots of whiffs.
• 1:15 Links usmash is like 3 of Marth's utilts with more range behind him and more power. Be careful approaching Link from above due to that. If you wanna fake him out, though, position yourself into it, then Counter him. Knowing Marth's fall speed, it should land.
• 1:55 Wow, um, you shouldn't have jumped when you had an easy grab from him.
• 1:56 If you're going to jump like that, I'd suggest coming down with a dair, or at least time your aerial properly.
• 2:11 Yet another greedy and too-fast reaction after throwing him. I'd actually have suggested using a SH uair on him instead of waiting to utilt him.
• 2:20 I rarely use Dolphin Slash unless it's for recovery or suddenly going to the top platform of FoD or Battlefield. I get that it can be an excellent kill move, but that's typically a reverse Dolphin Slash in the air to guarantee your KO.
• 2:23 Good idea shielding that Boomerang, but I would have recommended a WD OoS -> dtilt as a follow up instead of like 3 rolls.
• 2:30 Ouch, he got off that spot dodge really quickly. Good idea trying to grab him.
• 2:33 Dair earlier than that, please. Right near the ground isn't too good of an idea. Same at 2:36
• 2:38 Remember your techs
• 2:42 Nice tipper fsmash
• 2:48 You dropped that shield way too early.
  
• 2:51 Conceptually an excellent air dodge, but I would have moved it down and away some more.
• 2:55 I just wanna mention how funny I find it when anybody hits the screen.
• 2:59 When you get a grab -> uthrow like that, try chaingrabbing it or getting more solid punishes. Your opponent is consistently only getting like 13% off of that because you're not following up with like anything.
• 3:03 This was a moment when you should've fsmashed him. The range above him is pretty nice. Just about anything is better than rapid jabbing, though.
• 3:09 Nice patience, but you were a little too patient.
• 3:14 Lol, the dair. I'd suggest moving off to the side a bit before trying to punish him in the air.
• 3:18 That's how you punish a grab!
• 3:20 Pretty nice reverse fsmash. Definitely gives you a breather.
• 3:22 He was super close to surviving with the aid of that up+B. Another situation in which WD off so you can grab the ledge -> roll up from ledge was a good idea.
  
• General: Watch out for those ftilts. They hit hard and they hit relatively fast. He keeps getting you with those. Also, he may have a monster grab range, but it's a bit laggy. Watch out for it and punish. Even if you have to predict when he'll use it.

Match 4 (Link R2):

• 0:00 Good, you switched from the ugly White Marth
• 0:07 Looks like you got pretty thrown off by his falling through the platform. Either way you whiffed that fair.
• 0:11 You nearly made it over that Boomerang. It's tough to time the SH properly for sure.
• 0:12 Another uthrow that got you practically nothing.
• 0:20 The dtilt was a good idea, but unless it actually makes contact, don't try for the second one.
• 0:23 Don't try to nair in that situation. The KB is useful, but a fair or another uair would've been better options.
• 0:26 Good reaction to that failed ftilt.
• 0:30 That missed fsmash because he airdodged is one of the biggest drawbacks of the fsmash. A utilt in that situation would've been a lot better, or just a tiny bit of patience, which I'll admit may have been risky.
• 0:34 Forget about his ability to fast fall?
• 0:47 Falling off of the platform into a uair is one weird choice. I suggest dair/fair in that particular situation.
• 0:49 This random bair sponsored by...?
• 1:02 Excellent punish on that usmash.
• 1:07 Random magic grab.
• 1:09-10 Instead of landing and attempting to grab him, why not just fair him? It's way more likely to connect.
• 1:11 Another missed tech
• 1:14 I've already been over this: don't usmash.
• 1:24 After that up+B ends, try to uair him to get to the ground first so you've got an advantage.
• 1:27 What a crisp DD out of grab range for a grab
• 1:29 Though I wouldn't have suggested nairing him right there, it worked pretty well for you. I would've baired.
• 1:31 Another good fsmash.
• 1:37 That dair very nearly killed you.
• 1:44 You handed him that grab.
• 1:45 I'm done checking for missed techs.
• 1:46 After avoiding him on that platform, you should've taken the chance and punished. Perhaps a nair due to it's platform coverage or a uair because it was easy enough to position.
• 1:55-2:00 Watch out for his aerials. His uair and dair in particular have excellent strength, but small hitboxes. Just avoid it and punish.
• 2:03 What did I say about the power of a Link dair?
• 2:12 Another timely air dodge by him to force you to miss the fsmash. Who was in whose head this match?
• 2:19 You gave him that grab for free.
• 2:22 Was the uair a missed utilt, perhaps, or your expecting you hit with something you didn't?
• 2:23 Instead of just waiting out his usmash, perhaps you should have just grabbed him to say "that won't work on me!" ...Oh, and for a punish.
• 2:42 Woot Woot! Gotta love those fsmashes for KOs, especially with your opponent on a platform.
• 2:44 Good idea staying away from him when he was first on that recovery platform. The best way to stop that dair is not to give him the opportunity.
• 3:04 Dsmash... please tell me you meant to dtilt. That move can be pretty risky, even if it did connect.
• 3:13 Another too-quick utilt. Patience is a virtue, my friend.
• 3:16 Nice fsmash to punish his dair.
• 3:22 So you can tech!
• 3:30 Greedy Dancing Blade. If the first doesn't connect, don't expect the second to unless you're in a good position with it.
• 3:40 You had a lot of options that were better than Dancing Blade in that situation.
• 3:44 No spikes for you! Be more careful with that. I won't try it unless I'm sure my opponent doesn't see it coming.
• 3:57 I'd suggest saying in a bit closer to him so you can react to his roll better. If you dash towards him and he rolls away, don't stop dashing, land a dash attack instead.
• 4:02 Another time where WDing off was a much better option.

Match 5 (Marth R1):

• 0:00 Why with the White Marth again? Lol
• 0:04 Nice timing on that fair. I think that the fact you both full hopped surprised him. If you both do something like that, you've gotta react faster. It typically throws people off.
• 0:10 I hate to point this out, but that is how to dair.
• 0:20 There is no invincibility period on a missed dair. Grab him!
• 0:29 His dsmash proved my point about how risky it is. Look at how free of a punish you got.
• 0:42 Turn around and attack where he is-- it helps.
• 0:46 Good grab, but no followup.
• 1:14 You had all the time in the world to see that he was using Shield Breaker. Tsk tsk
• 1:25 Another time when you should've used your own aerial first.
• 1:30 He totally read that attempted grab.
• 1:34 Instead of turning tail and running, I'm fairly sure a utilt would have connected.
• 1:44 Although full hopping off of the edge to grab it is a ridiculous idea, you made it work...
• 1:54 He wasn't even moving towards you... why Counter?
• 1:57 Instead of turning and ftilting, I would suggest utilting again for that tipper behind him.
• 1:59 Good grab OoS
• 2:06 There's that roll from the ledge!
• 2:16 I can't guess what prompted him to SD like that.
• 2:28 You're lucky he accidentally used more than one hit of Dancing Blade. That was a free KO by you, but still another situation where you should've used WD to grab the edge.
  
• General: A lot of unneeded shield usage. Maybe dash/WD away from their attacks instead.

Match 6 (Ganon R1):

• Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! There's no link for me so I can't critique this one.

I'm not particularly sorry if this is a massive wall of text, you did say "I want you to bring the pain"

 

[Yeros]

Reference: Yeros

Play by play is great, but I would also really appreciate pointing out any big holes I have in my gameplay in general. Thanks!

Sheik
Fox
Falcon (Bo3)
Doc (Bo3)

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Reference: Yeros

Play by play is great, but I would also really appreciate pointing out any big holes I have in my gameplay in general. Thanks!

These were really fun to watch, but here's what I noticed:

Against Fox:
- You were getting clipped by too many nairs. You were either trying to approach and you exited your dash range and couldn't go back or weren't expecting them.
- Threw out too many aerials that got you punished. Marth needs to stay grounded. You can throw out aerials, but you have to make sure they connect. It's not hard to call out Marth in the air, and punishing an aerial is something most people are good at.
- You exhaust your double jump too early when you're recovering and you often side b too close to the ledge. In this position, Fox can just b-air you and you'll lose the stock. Remember that Fox has a large area where he can jump from the ledge, b-air, and recover.
- You always seem to come down with an aerial from getting knocked into the air. It's a bad habit that a lot of Marth players have. If they opponent is expecting it, they can just wait it out and punish you.

Against Falcon:
-The same things that applied to Fox above apply here too.
-Too many rogue f-smashes. You didn't get punished too hard for them, but it isn't a good habit to get into.
-There were a few time you didn't continue the tech chase, and instead threw out another move (ex. 8:28). This resulted in a bad situation for you, when you could have gotten some free damage.
-Don't try to over complicate the edgeguard. Sometimes a run off f-air is all it takes to kill Falcon.

Against Sheik:
-Your dash dancing was pretty impressive! You were able to bait out f-tilts from Sheik and punish her, which isnt easy to do. Nice job!
-Again, you used your double jump too early. Sheik can easily punish this.
-Going for f-airs/n-airs on shield is not safe unless you perfectly space them, and even then getting a grab on Sheik is more important.

Tips:
-Try to stay grounded. Your dash dance game was really good against Sheik, and you should focus on that against fast fallers. One of the best ways to punish Fox's n-air is dash dance > pivot grab.
-Keep in mind why you're dash dancing. As Zhu & Cactuar said "think of dash dancing as moving toward and away from your opponent, not just back and forth on the stage". Dash dance with a purpose of doing something, and not just to move.
-Instead of aerials, you can opt for up tilts against aerial approaches. This can set up for a bigger punish and has great reach and low lag. Jab is also good, and can set up for grab.
-Going off stage takes some getting used to, but it's one of Marth's best tools as an edgeguard. When edgeguarding Falcon, you can d-tilt > drop zone f-air to eat his double jump > fair again > and recover.

Overall, I was impressed with your games, and you seem to understand Marth really well, it's just a few things that can be refined! Keep at it :D

 

[Smashing Turnips]

I feel like I just have trouble controlling my character. Like I feel like I can't get around quick enough I guess, and I've seen Marth so much faster before..

It all comes down to practice. You can study all you want, but if you don't practice your movement and bread n butters, then you won't be able to preform. The more you practice, the easier it becomes to control your character.

 

[Mithost]

I just got home from a local Melee/Smash 4 tournament, and for the first time, I got to play a match on stream. Despite playing for years I have only recently been able to make it out to tournaments, so I've never really had a real training partner or any experience against players who are better than me up until now.

The set is here:

http://www.twitch.tv/chasey1337/b/675694169

Match starts at the 39:00 mark.

The matchups are Marth/Fox and Marth/Marth. I win the Marth ditto but lose the fox matchup both times. All games are close and I feel like the set could have gone either way.

Major Issues that I know of:

1. I don't get much off of grabs. I was experimenting with d-throw tech chasing, but I am unsure of what went wrong. Was it timing? Move selection? Is tech-chasing from d-throw just impossible? With Up-throw, I find that I'm unable to pummel and upthrow before they break out, and up throw itself doesn't really do enough damage on it's own.
   
   
2. I need to nail down my edgeguards. I manage to get my opponent off-stage tons of times, yet rarely do they ever convert into stocks. Without a training partner who plays spacies this might be difficult... Does 20XX have any way to practice them?
   
   
3. My combos can be good, but they never kill. I don't know how to remedy this, I just never find a move that can lead into a forward smash or another kill move.
   
   
4. Passive play doesn't work. First game 2nd stock is a testament to this. I have no idea what I was doing.
   

What I would like is some help with the things I stated above, as well as any general critique of anything I missed, anything I should capitalize on more, etc.

 

[Yeros]

@ Smashing Turnips
Thanks a lot! You definitely picked up on a lot of my bad habits that I'm working on breaking, and gave me some new things to consider.

These were really fun to watch, but here's what I noticed:

Against Fox:
- You were getting clipped by too many nairs. You were either trying to approach and you exited your dash range and couldn't go back or weren't expecting them.
- Threw out too many aerials that got you punished. Marth needs to stay grounded. You can throw out aerials, but you have to make sure they connect. It's not hard to call out Marth in the air, and punishing an aerial is something most people are good at.
- You exhaust your double jump too early when you're recovering and you often side b too close to the ledge. In this position, Fox can just b-air you and you'll lose the stock. Remember that Fox has a large area where he can jump from the ledge, b-air, and recover.
- You always seem to come down with an aerial from getting knocked into the air. It's a bad habit that a lot of Marth players have. If they opponent is expecting it, they can just wait it out and punish you.

Against Falcon:
-The same things that applied to Fox above apply here too.
-Too many rogue f-smashes. You didn't get punished too hard for them, but it isn't a good habit to get into.
-There were a few time you didn't continue the tech chase, and instead threw out another move (ex. 8:28). This resulted in a bad situation for you, when you could have gotten some free damage.
-Don't try to over complicate the edgeguard. Sometimes a run off f-air is all it takes to kill Falcon.

Against Sheik:
-Your dash dancing was pretty impressive! You were able to bait out f-tilts from Sheik and punish her, which isnt easy to do. Nice job!
-Again, you used your double jump too early. Sheik can easily punish this.
-Going for f-airs/n-airs on shield is not safe unless you perfectly space them, and even then getting a grab on Sheik is more important.

Tips:
-Try to stay grounded. Your dash dance game was really good against Sheik, and you should focus on that against fast fallers. One of the best ways to punish Fox's n-air is dash dance > pivot grab.
-Keep in mind why you're dash dancing. As Zhu & Cactuar said "think of dash dancing as moving toward and away from your opponent, not just back and forth on the stage". Dash dance with a purpose of doing something, and not just to move.
-Instead of aerials, you can opt for up tilts against aerial approaches. This can set up for a bigger punish and has great reach and low lag. Jab is also good, and can set up for grab.
-Going off stage takes some getting used to, but it's one of Marth's best tools as an edgeguard. When edgeguarding Falcon, you can d-tilt > drop zone f-air to eat his double jump > fair again > and recover.

Overall, I was impressed with your games, and you seem to understand Marth really well, it's just a few things that can be refined! Keep at it :D

 

[Fatomsk2]

Reference code: Kopaka
My most recent streamed match. I win but I know there's a lot of things I can tighten up. Especially against more Falcos. Play by play, anything.

http://www.twitch.tv/sdmeleetv/b/676159880 The match starts at approx. 12:48

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Reference code: Kopaka
My most recent streamed match. I win but I know there's a lot of things I can tighten up. Especially against more Falcos. Play by play, anything.

http://www.twitch.tv/sdmeleetv/b/676159880 The match starts at approx. 12:48

If I have time in the morning I will look at your match & help you out!

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Reference code: Kopaka
My most recent streamed match. I win but I know there's a lot of things I can tighten up. Especially against more Falcos. Play by play, anything.

The first thing I noticed was that you were throwing out aerials that would often get crouch canceled and lead to a punish. Generally, Marth should never approach in the air against the spacies. There were times were when you were going for a f-air/n-air, the Falco would just b-air/n-air/shoot a laser and would set up for a punish.

Throwing out counters worked in this instance, but are a bad habit that should be done less. Players with a harder punish game will pick up on that and just bait it out.

There were a couple times in the first game where Falco was trying to recover in a bad position, but you didn't take advantage of it. Marth's weak f-air has pretty decently horizontal knockback when setting up for an edgeguard against fast fallers. The inside hitbox sends at a weird lower angle where the tipper hitbox generally sends vertically. Try to make use of the different hitboxes on Marth's swings.

You had a few great dance dash grabs that punished Falco's unsafe n-air approaches. In the Stadium game, you were able to get a few strong punishes off of your grabs, but ended up getting Falco away from you by using n-air. For instance at 18:18 had you opted for an up-tilt, you could have chained it into another up-tilt or an up-air, and sent Falco away from the stage with a n-air later and with added percent. Just some food for thought.

Another thing I noticed was that you used your double jump too early to jump out of hitstun when recovering. Good Falco players will snipe this as soon as you jump, and your recovery will fail because of it. Try conserving your jump. Recovering high for Marth is typically a bad idea since he has a lot of end lag on his Dolphin Slash.

Overall, your punish game needs a little refining, but it picked up towards the end of the second game. You went for more juggles as opposed to getting Falco away from you. I liked that you went for the throw mixup at around 20:00, it caught the Falco off gaurd and you were able to f-smash him.

You have a pretty good understanding for Marth, and your decision making is pretty good. I would suggest a few things though:
-Work on your dash dance and bait out moves from Falco. The best offense is one that puts pressure on your opponent while not taking any damage.
-Practice power shielding. It's very useful against Falco and stops them from locking you down as hard.
-Learn to wavedash out of shield. In this set Falco wasn't putting much pressure on you, but being able to get out of his pressure at a higher level is a godsend.
-Try to focus on the different options that you could use to edgeguard Falco. Remember that his fire doesn't have a hitbox on startup so you can do WHATEVER you want while he's floating there.

 

[Fatomsk2]

The first thing I noticed was that you were throwing out aerials that would often get crouch canceled and lead to a punish. Generally, Marth should never approach in the air against the spacies. There were times were when you were going for a f-air/n-air, the Falco would just b-air/n-air/shoot a laser and would set up for a punish.

Throwing out counters worked in this instance, but are a bad habit that should be done less. Players with a harder punish game will pick up on that and just bait it out.

There were a couple times in the first game where Falco was trying to recover in a bad position, but you didn't take advantage of it. Marth's weak f-air has pretty decently horizontal knockback when setting up for an edgeguard against fast fallers. The inside hitbox sends at a weird lower angle where the tipper hitbox generally sends vertically. Try to make use of the different hitboxes on Marth's swings.

You had a few great dance dash grabs that punished Falco's unsafe n-air approaches. In the Stadium game, you were able to get a few strong punishes off of your grabs, but ended up getting Falco away from you by using n-air. For instance at 18:18 had you opted for an up-tilt, you could have chained it into another up-tilt or an up-air, and sent Falco away from the stage with a n-air later and with added percent. Just some food for thought.

Another thing I noticed was that you used your double jump too early to jump out of hitstun when recovering. Good Falco players will snipe this as soon as you jump, and your recovery will fail because of it. Try conserving your jump. Recovering high for Marth is typically a bad idea since he has a lot of end lag on his Dolphin Slash.

Overall, your punish game needs a little refining, but it picked up towards the end of the second game. You went for more juggles as opposed to getting Falco away from you. I liked that you went for the throw mixup at around 20:00, it caught the Falco off gaurd and you were able to f-smash him.

You have a pretty good understanding for Marth, and your decision making is pretty good. I would suggest a few things though:
-Work on your dash dance and bait out moves from Falco. The best offense is one that puts pressure on your opponent while not taking any damage.
-Practice power shielding. It's very useful against Falco and stops them from locking you down as hard.
-Learn to wavedash out of shield. In this set Falco wasn't putting much pressure on you, but being able to get out of his pressure at a higher level is a godsend.
-Try to focus on the different options that you could use to edgeguard Falco. Remember that his fire doesn't have a hitbox on startup so you can do WHATEVER you want while he's floating there.

Thank you, all very very solid tips, and I definitely see them working. Much appreciated!

 

[PoppaSquat]

This is my most recent streamed set against a fox in my area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QGTRg5Uaas My focus was on dash dancing and the neutral, but any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[FE_Hector]

This is my most recent streamed set against a fox in my area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QGTRg5Uaas My focus was on dash dancing and the neutral, but any advice is greatly appreciated!

Before anything, I gotta say GO NC!

A few seconds in, you tried to use an fsmash, I'm guessing to edgeguard. It's a bit weird on YS, but I'd recommend using dtilt instead. It comes out faster and has less lag.

In general, it looked like you were going for a lot of quick kills, using moves like nair and bthrow near the edge. As Marth, I'd recommend racking up damage with uthrow chaingrabs, uthrow -> utilt/uair, etc.

Be careful with Marth's smash attacks. He really doesn't like devoting to attacks too much, and his smash attacks are all pretty big commitments.

Your grab game was pretty solid. You've gotta work on comboing off of a single grab.

Instead of trying to read your opponents movement, it's way more beneficial to react to it or at least cover one option. For example, when he initiates Firefox off the edge, WD off to cover that option, then get back up and start comboing him when he doesn't go for the ledge.

Your movement was pretty good, but you were pretty predictable with it sometimes and got punished for it. When you Dash Dance, you're gonna wanna do it to disguise your goals, not just randomly in a manner that leaves you open.

I'd recommend working on your platform movement. It didn't look too good and seemed to keep messing you up.

You wasted some pretty good combo opportunities. For example, if Fox is above you on a platform, just utilt him. It's pretty hard to avoid and is easy to combo off of.

If you want to use a smash attack, make sure you c-stick it. You won't charge it up at all, so it's guaranteed to come out faster.

If you're going to approach, a SH fair is generally a way better idea than a SH nair. A well spaced nair can be used well as an occasional mixup or if you're retreating/fading, but it shouldn't be your primary move.

Watch your DI. I didn't really see any horrible DI, but one time you went straight into a usmash.

If you're going to use Dolphin Slash, try to make sure you sweetspot it. It's way more difficult to punish.

Make sure you hold onto your second jump. It's really really important.

Counter is a bad idea

The only other thing I have to say is what I say to everybody, myself included. Watch the pros. They got there for a reason.

 

[ssknight7]

So this video is a few matches that I played on netplay. I am so effing depressed with the Marth ditto sometimes. I feel like sometimes I just freeze up in it. I get caught sitting in shield a lot because I feel overwhelmed. I feel like my edgeguard game is terrible and my recover is awful. I freeze up in the matchup and i find myself unable to execute simple concepts like maintaining stage control (yes i know this is not always a "simple" concept) because I feel like if i try to fight for stage control I just end up getting crowded and punished.

I guess I'm not sure how I'm supposed to maintain stage control without giving up my spacing and I can't space and DD the way I want without giving up some of the stage. Does this make sense or am I dumb?

I feel like so often when I'm edgeguarding, I lose the edge because someone just ends up going behind me. For some reason i feel like I'm unable to read and comprehend simple exchanges in neutral, maybe it's just because my brain is lazy i really don't know but i feel like theres something wrong with my thinking. I feel like someone with Aspergers would feel when trying to interact in public. They often feel completely unable to read normal social queues and are often awkward because of their inability to grasp social nuance. I feel like I have Smashspergers or something. Why can't I see matches as collections of neutral interactions and offensive exchanges?

I'm the blue marth. I can plainly see some of the mistakes I'm making but please help me if you can. the first few matches are playing this guy's marth there are some spacies matches afterward that are a little better but the first 3 marth dittos should show you all you need to know.

I know that I'm autopiloting while I play to a large extent because if I try to think about what im doing while I'm playing I just end up slowing down and getting punished.

What are some things that I can do to keep myself aware at all times during my games and just maintain focus?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQjzlfUNbQ

 

[The Leaf]

This is my most recent streamed set against a fox in my area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QGTRg5Uaas My focus was on dash dancing and the neutral, but any advice is greatly appreciated!

You should not be focusing on the neutral and your dash dance right now. That is certainly the least of your worries. Your movement is gorgeous and you were outplaying him really hard.

But that means nothing if you can't capitalize. Your punish game is very weak. I wish I could get as many grabs as you did in game 1, your Marth is beautiful, but dude please upthrow. Back throw is very situational, dthrow is alright but you really wanna uthrow to get some combos. You started to uthrow in game 3 but you looked lost and didn't know how to follow up. Put some emphasis on juggling and learn how to edgeguard. You managed to get a ridiculous amount of grabs by the ledge, but I don't think you capitalized on any of them. Learn to cover the various options Fox has to get back to the stage on reaction, and don't be afraid to go out and reverse Up B or DJ Bair him when he starts his option. Use dtilt to cover pretty much any recovery to the ledge and use jabs to cover horizontal recoveries onto the stage. You'll have plenty of time to react to his Up B angled up to the platforms with utilt or uair.

Your Marth looks really good, just learn how to initiate and sustain combos. I feel like even though you won neutral close to80% of the time, your average punish was maybe somewhere between 9 - 15%. It was almost like you were playing Smash4 Marth with your hit and runs. You just got outpunished very hard by the opposing Fox. I think if you spent some time with a friend learning how to edgeguard in various situations (or watch M2K's 739 edgeguard video) it could really go a long way for your Marth play.

 

[PoppaSquat]

Before anything, I gotta say GO NC!

A few seconds in, you tried to use an fsmash, I'm guessing to edgeguard. It's a bit weird on YS, but I'd recommend using dtilt instead. It comes out faster and has less lag.

In general, it looked like you were going for a lot of quick kills, using moves like nair and bthrow near the edge. As Marth, I'd recommend racking up damage with uthrow chaingrabs, uthrow -> utilt/uair, etc.

Be careful with Marth's smash attacks. He really doesn't like devoting to attacks too much, and his smash attacks are all pretty big commitments.

Your grab game was pretty solid. You've gotta work on comboing off of a single grab.

Instead of trying to read your opponents movement, it's way more beneficial to react to it or at least cover one option. For example, when he initiates Firefox off the edge, WD off to cover that option, then get back up and start comboing him when he doesn't go for the ledge.

Your movement was pretty good, but you were pretty predictable with it sometimes and got punished for it. When you Dash Dance, you're gonna wanna do it to disguise your goals, not just randomly in a manner that leaves you open.

I'd recommend working on your platform movement. It didn't look too good and seemed to keep messing you up.

You wasted some pretty good combo opportunities. For example, if Fox is above you on a platform, just utilt him. It's pretty hard to avoid and is easy to combo off of.

If you want to use a smash attack, make sure you c-stick it. You won't charge it up at all, so it's guaranteed to come out faster.

If you're going to approach, a SH fair is generally a way better idea than a SH nair. A well spaced nair can be used well as an occasional mixup or if you're retreating/fading, but it shouldn't be your primary move.

Watch your DI. I didn't really see any horrible DI, but one time you went straight into a usmash.

If you're going to use Dolphin Slash, try to make sure you sweetspot it. It's way more difficult to punish.

Make sure you hold onto your second jump. It's really really important.

Counter is a bad idea

The only other thing I have to say is what I say to everybody, myself included. Watch the pros. They got there for a reason.

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you! Yeah the main thing I noticed was way too many forward smashes, since that match I've been focusing a lot more on punishing off of upthrow rather than tech chase f-smashes.

I have some good resources for practicing tech chases and punishes, but how should I be practicing DI? is it just experience?

yeah my platform movement has kinda fallen off since I started working more on my dash dance. I honestly don'y know when marth should even be on a platform let alone wave landing and shield dropping through one.

how do I keep from being predictable? is it just a matter of more mix ups?

Thanks for all your help and go NC!

 

[PoppaSquat]

You should not be focusing on the neutral and your dash dance right now. That is certainly the least of your worries. Your movement is gorgeous and you were outplaying him really hard.

But that means nothing if you can't capitalize. Your punish game is very weak. I wish I could get as many grabs as you did in game 1, your Marth is beautiful, but dude please upthrow. Back throw is very situational, dthrow is alright but you really wanna uthrow to get some combos. You started to uthrow in game 3 but you looked lost and didn't know how to follow up. Put some emphasis on juggling and learn how to edgeguard. You managed to get a ridiculous amount of grabs by the ledge, but I don't think you capitalized on any of them. Learn to cover the various options Fox has to get back to the stage on reaction, and don't be afraid to go out and reverse Up B or DJ Bair him when he starts his option. Use dtilt to cover pretty much any recovery to the ledge and use jabs to cover horizontal recoveries onto the stage. You'll have plenty of time to react to his Up B angled up to the platforms with utilt or uair.

Your Marth looks really good, just learn how to initiate and sustain combos. I feel like even though you won neutral close to80% of the time, your average punish was maybe somewhere between 9 - 15%. It was almost like you were playing Smash4 Marth with your hit and runs. You just got outpunished very hard by the opposing Fox. I think if you spent some time with a friend learning how to edgeguard in various situations (or watch M2K's 739 edgeguard video) it could really go a long way for your Marth play.

I really appreciate the compliments! movement is definitely my favorite thing to practice, but it has left my punish game as outrageously weak. I didn't even notice how much I was using down throw until you pointed it out haha. This has got to be one of my first tournament matches against a non-scrubby fox and boy did I pay the price, I was coming from fighting mostly floaty characters and it was a HUGE difference. at that point during the recording I had almost no experience punishing fox. So far I've been working on it and will post an updated fox vid when I get to that point in bracket again. Thanks again for your kind words and help!

 

[FE_Hector]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you! Yeah the main thing I noticed was way too many forward smashes, since that match I've been focusing a lot more on punishing off of upthrow rather than tech chase f-smashes.

I have some good resources for practicing tech chases and punishes, but how should I be practicing DI? is it just experience?

yeah my platform movement has kinda fallen off since I started working more on my dash dance. I honestly don'y know when marth should even be on a platform let alone wave landing and shield dropping through one.

how do I keep from being predictable? is it just a matter of more mix ups?

Thanks for all your help and go NC!

Practicing all kinds of follow ups, especially off uthrow, is a great idea.

Practicing DI is really an experience thing. Maybe find somebody to play friendlies with.

I don't go on platforms except for avoiding laser-happy spacies and to get better positioning for a utilt. Wavelanding is generally a good idea because you're still moving, and I'd suggest shield dropping when there's pressure being put on your shield and you're not confident with anything else.

Mixing up and knowing your options is the only way to avoid predictability.

Far as getting back into the brackets again, NC State is having a tourney soon. Start a private conversation with me for info.

 

[RittJumper]

hello all I played on stream at a local tournament yesterday. If anyone here can do a critique on my marth I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Here's about 20 minutes of me playing friendlies http://www.twitch.tv/bardull/b/681431791
tournament set starting at 4:30ish http://www.twitch.tv/bardull/b/681434799

 

[FE_Hector]

@ RittJumper Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, I had some stuff to do. Besides what I mention below, just watch pros (M2K, PPMD, PPU), and learn why they do what they do.

When Puff rests, fsmash
Learn the capabilities of all characters
Dancing Blade isn't as nice as Ken thinks
Counter is a no-no for the most part
Dairing an approach isn't a good idea
Stop using smash attacks so much
Convert more off of grabs
Don't be afraid to jump offstage in order to catch an opponent and ensure that you KO
Work on sweetspotting the ledge
Don't waste your sideB stall
In general, you wanna stay moving
You had some bad DI moments, watch out for those
Don't SD for the sake of getting onto Randall. It's not worth it

 

[Kopaka]

Reference code: Kopaka

Basically a tight set against a Jigglypuff. I'd like to take solace in the fact that I can play this particular floaty matchup with Marth...at least kind of OK right now, though I do play Sheik against this character which makes it a little less stressful honestly. But playing Marth against her is just way more fun. I know I should stop grabbing near the ledge though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MCGJFLr3rA

 

[FE_Hector]

Reference code: Kopaka

Basically a tight set against a Jigglypuff. I'd like to take solace in the fact that I can play this particular floaty matchup with Marth...at least kind of OK right now, though I do play Sheik against this character which makes it a little less stressful honestly. But playing Marth against her is just way more fun. I know I should stop grabbing near the ledge though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MCGJFLr3rA

I didn't watch the entire set, but here's what I saw.
- Don't get greedy. Puff has some nice walls she can set up, but there are always holes. Only take advantage of opportunities.
- Sweetspot the ledge more. A lot of your recoveries went highand could have been punished well past what ended up happening.
- When recovering, do it in the following order to ensure maximum survivability: sideB stall, second jump, upB
- Maybe cool it with the fsmashes a little bit. You didn't get punished too much but they still got shielded.

Overall it was some very nice Marth play and I've just got to say keep it up!

 

[Kopaka]

I didn't watch the entire set, but here's what I saw.
- Don't get greedy. Puff has some nice walls she can set up, but there are always holes. Only take advantage of opportunities.
- Sweetspot the ledge more. A lot of your recoveries went highand could have been punished well past what ended up happening.
- When recovering, do it in the following order to ensure maximum survivability: sideB stall, second jump, upB
- Maybe cool it with the fsmashes a little bit. You didn't get punished too much but they still got shielded.

Overall it was some very nice Marth play and I've just got to say keep it up!

Yeah, 4 months later after that set I still hear from my peers telling me to practice sweetspots and F-Smash even less. And the side B recovery. I'll definitely do my best to have those down the next most recent set I can get on stream.

 

[FE_Hector]

Yeah, 4 months later after that set I still hear from my peers telling me to practice sweetspots and F-Smash even less. And the side B recovery. I'll definitely do my best to have those down the next most recent set I can get on stream.

Alright, sounds like a plan. I've got my 2nd ever tourney (1st was only 13 people lol) in a bit over a week, but I'm right around the 4-month mark myself. I'm not entirely sure how well I'll perform though just cuz I've got so little practice outside of my bros Sheik and friends Falcon... welp, I'll definitely post my sets if they get filmed.

 

[Kopaka]

Alright, sounds like a plan. I've got my 2nd ever tourney (1st was only 13 people lol) in a bit over a week, but I'm right around the 4-month mark myself. I'm not entirely sure how well I'll perform though just cuz I've got so little practice outside of my bros Sheik and friends Falcon... welp, I'll definitely post my sets if they get filmed.

Take stride in the fact that you can practice against a Sheik. Dominating a Sheik in bracket, especially a not nooby one, is a really good feeling. You can definitely take matchup standards from the Sheik matchup and apply them to others, like Fox. One thing in particular that helped me immensly was when I was told to always watch my opponent.

 

[FE_Hector]

Take stride in the fact that you can practice against a Sheik. Dominating a Sheik in bracket, especially a not nooby one, is a really good feeling. You can definitely take matchup standards from the Sheik matchup and apply them to others, like Fox. One thing in particular that helped me immensly was when I was told to always watch my opponent.

Yeah, my eyes are rarely on Marth (or Falco when I play him). It's a preipheral vision kind of butt-kicking. Anyway, as far as Sheik goes, it's really funny because he beats me on FD by less than a stock, and I kill him on every other stage. Hopefully in the next week or so he'll consent to play me a bit more, cuz I wanna brush up on the MU before tourney. He was out of state for a few weeks so I couldn't play, so instead I put work into my Falco.

 

[Kopaka]

Yeah, my eyes are rarely on Marth (or Falco when I play him). It's a preipheral vision kind of butt-kicking. Anyway, as far as Sheik goes, it's really funny because he beats me on FD by less than a stock, and I kill him on every other stage. Hopefully in the next week or so he'll consent to play me a bit more, cuz I wanna brush up on the MU before tourney. He was out of state for a few weeks so I couldn't play, so instead I put work into my Falco.

Personally right now I like FD for Marth vs Sheik a lot. It's a great stage to get up-throw juggles and footsies. And there's no threat of any shield drop punishes either. Still though, you need to be very very careful with your spacing, especially if the Sheik can punish you hard, like, touch-you-your-stock-is-gone hard. It's mainly a comfort pick for myself though.

 

[FE_Hector]

Personally right now I like FD for Marth vs Sheik a lot. It's a great stage to get up-throw juggles and footsies. And there's no threat of any shield drop punishes either. Still though, you need to be very very careful with your spacing, especially if the Sheik can punish you hard, like, touch-you-your-stock-is-gone hard. It's mainly a comfort pick for myself though.

Yeah, that's part of the problem. He's got a very unique Sheik and it's really hard to keep a combo going on him. However, I've recently been working on the repeated fairs so hopefully my combo game against him will be a bit better. Thing with comboing him when he's in the air is that he'll use his DJ to avoid one hit and his aerial dodge to avoid the other. Suppose that's just something I've gotta adapt to though.

Also his techchasing is fricking amazing (though a few mixups will probably help a lot), so he can just combo me to death most of the time and it's super annoying.