Kaoak
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2014
- Messages
- 60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpn8bF0KBqA here's the youtube link <3
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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.
- Thread starter P. O. F.
- Start date
Kaoak
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2014
- Messages
- 60
I added the youtube link to my original post sorry about that D:I can't critique Twitch VODs because my laptop's crap.
AirFair
Marth tho
Hey all. I forgot to post this until now, but these are 2 sets from a monthly last month I went to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NggEz0GLxl4&index=6&list=PL66SLvkMW-PDTJ-kMjhUNyZLKkY-1UJV2
This was against a Fox. I dropped game 2 on Pokemon Stadium, and it brought some consistency issues to light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uawcp7e98&list=PL66SLvkMW-PDTJ-kMjhUNyZLKkY-1UJV2&index=7
This was against a Falco. I tried to dash around lasers instead of always going for shield. Almost won game 2
The most glaring issue that I can remember immediately is that I would just go for grabs too much, and that I could definitely be a bit more patient, which is the goal. There are definitely a lot of situations I missed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NggEz0GLxl4&index=6&list=PL66SLvkMW-PDTJ-kMjhUNyZLKkY-1UJV2
This was against a Fox. I dropped game 2 on Pokemon Stadium, and it brought some consistency issues to light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uawcp7e98&list=PL66SLvkMW-PDTJ-kMjhUNyZLKkY-1UJV2&index=7
This was against a Falco. I tried to dash around lasers instead of always going for shield. Almost won game 2
The most glaring issue that I can remember immediately is that I would just go for grabs too much, and that I could definitely be a bit more patient, which is the goal. There are definitely a lot of situations I missed.
Kaoak
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2014
- Messages
- 60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKzn4tZ1X2U&ab_channel=PeterboroughSmash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMyeKecwzgI&ab_channel=PeterboroughSmash
2 sets people could review if they wanted to. Careful about crap commentary on the second link, I'd just mute it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMyeKecwzgI&ab_channel=PeterboroughSmash
2 sets people could review if they wanted to. Careful about crap commentary on the second link, I'd just mute it.
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Speed
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2015
- Messages
- 10
Every time you're hit far off stage, you immediately double jump then dancing blade. Instead you should dancing blade then double jump. It helps with recovering a lot.
TheRealGimpt
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2014
- Messages
- 8
Hey guys. Been playing this game for about 3 or 4 months now (though not as consistently as I'd like to) and have been trying Marth out the past two or three weeks. One thing I noticed from watching these videos is that I roll WAAAAAY too much. If you guys have any comments, I would appreciate it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYQ8TpOxFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRQUMNnhmKo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYQ8TpOxFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRQUMNnhmKo
The Young Izzy Iz
Smash Apprentice
From what I'm seeing this is really just a lack of experience with movement options and an unwillingness to commit to your power moves. There were numerous times during that first game where I could clearly see you had the right read but you just didn't commit to the F-Smash. Randomly F-Smashing is bad, F-Smashing off a read is good, especially when the payout is so amazing. If you just have something against committing to the F-Smashing then you might try short hop non-fast fallen N-air to cover missed tech, tech in place, and roll forward. In terms of movement options it just looks like you're not wavedashing at all. There were plenty of times in there where wavedash out of shield would have saved you a lot of pain or wave-dash back F-Smash would have punished hard. I also noticed you seemed to get stuck in your shield and roll because you panicked. Try wavedashing back OoS if you feel pressured or forward OoS -> grab for a solid punish. Fair out of shield might have been nice a couple of times but really either of the above is just as good, especially if you can follow it up. The last thing I'll say is just reading comprehension. By the second set its so abundantly clear that your opponent is smashing get-up that its painful. All it takes is wavedashing back F-Smash or Shield grab to punish that and end stocks. You were definitely losing mileage on that one.
One last question, did you feel a little intimidated by the dash dance? I just feel like that might have been the x-factor that was putting so much pressure on you; not sure if its your first time really seeing that.
20 seconds in needs more SHUFFL fairs. At 0:26 you missed the u-tilt -> u-air follow-up with flubbed upsmash. 0:30 Wavedash back F-smash. Weird option at 1:07 where you N-air'd instead of F-smashing. 1:26 beautiful D-tilt to end the stock, that was good. By 1:44 should have realized he was spamming get-up attack and shield grabbed, think that was the third consecutive I saw. 3:06 was a flubber fox-trot that probably should have been a wavedash.
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Hey guys, as I said in the PP thread, been playing 5 months and recorded some netplay to get some feedback. Having watched the videos back.. yikes... ****s embarassing. You don't realise you're doing half the stuff you're doing! Guess that's a sign of autopilot?
Anyway, I've analysed them a bit, and think I know my main weaknesses, but I'd like it if anyone could give me some pointers and advice in the direction that I should be working in and what will make my game improve fastest (not necessarily to win, and not necessarily looking for a shortcut but just the best way to level up quickest.. if even possible)
Here are the links:
vs another Marth
vs Fox
Anyway, I've analysed them a bit, and think I know my main weaknesses, but I'd like it if anyone could give me some pointers and advice in the direction that I should be working in and what will make my game improve fastest (not necessarily to win, and not necessarily looking for a shortcut but just the best way to level up quickest.. if even possible)
Here are the links:
vs another Marth
vs Fox
Brave Little DeCoste'R
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2015
- Messages
- 30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hQ1kXUlWd8
reference: DeCoste
Might as well try to see if anyone here has advice for me. I know I mess up a few tech things and throw out too many fsmashes in wrong places.
I'm really looking for things I can work on in my punish game. although any advice in general would be nice
reference: DeCoste
Might as well try to see if anyone here has advice for me. I know I mess up a few tech things and throw out too many fsmashes in wrong places.
I'm really looking for things I can work on in my punish game. although any advice in general would be nice
DeCoste
It looks like whenever you decide to throw out most of your moves, they look like they're just hard reads. And I don't mean just F-Smash either. Some Nairs and grabs you throw out and other short strings of moves too. (Some Dtilt -> Attack strings) A random example would be at 6:32, you got behind Sheik and she puts up her shield. You just won 50% of this exchange, the other 50% would have been grabbing, but you went for the F-Smash instead. The Sheik was more than likely to have already been conditioned enough to shield often because of your hard reads. It looks like a lot of your neutral game is based off of this.
Get yourself in the winning positions and pick out the move that has the smallest chance of you getting punished the hardest for being wrong. (Highest chance: F-Smash, lowest chance: Grab/all the least laggy moves Marth has). Because sometimes you do get in favorable positions, but then you just pick the worst move for that scenario.
This also applies to moving: at 0:38, you run to Sheik with your back to the ledge. All she had to do was Dtilt -> Fair you, because you had no room to defend yourself by entering a run straight at her with that little space between you two. In that situation, Sheik has the advantage. She could have covered this in a few different ways too because she has the most stage control here. She could have Ftilted, jabbed you, grabbed you...pretty much anything. Losing stage control really sucks doesn't it? So you have to respect that she is winning right now. Even if the percents were closer.
It looks like whenever you decide to throw out most of your moves, they look like they're just hard reads. And I don't mean just F-Smash either. Some Nairs and grabs you throw out and other short strings of moves too. (Some Dtilt -> Attack strings) A random example would be at 6:32, you got behind Sheik and she puts up her shield. You just won 50% of this exchange, the other 50% would have been grabbing, but you went for the F-Smash instead. The Sheik was more than likely to have already been conditioned enough to shield often because of your hard reads. It looks like a lot of your neutral game is based off of this.
Get yourself in the winning positions and pick out the move that has the smallest chance of you getting punished the hardest for being wrong. (Highest chance: F-Smash, lowest chance: Grab/all the least laggy moves Marth has). Because sometimes you do get in favorable positions, but then you just pick the worst move for that scenario.
This also applies to moving: at 0:38, you run to Sheik with your back to the ledge. All she had to do was Dtilt -> Fair you, because you had no room to defend yourself by entering a run straight at her with that little space between you two. In that situation, Sheik has the advantage. She could have covered this in a few different ways too because she has the most stage control here. She could have Ftilted, jabbed you, grabbed you...pretty much anything. Losing stage control really sucks doesn't it? So you have to respect that she is winning right now. Even if the percents were closer.
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Brave Little DeCoste'R
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2015
- Messages
- 30
Brave Little DeCoste'R
Yeah keep at it dude. The fact that you can get yourself in those positions swiftly is already really good! Don't hard read when you don't need to. And often times you really won't need to.
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Brave Little DeCoste'R
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2015
- Messages
- 30
thanks yeah I go for the guess a lot of the times in neutral. I'm trying to get good at knowing when I should read vs when I should react.
follow up question, what are Marths safest moves when you do have the advantage? AC nair, dtilt and grab?
follow up question, what are Marths safest moves when you do have the advantage? AC nair, dtilt and grab?
Ftilt can also be in the list too. You can even use it when they're on some platforms. (not 100% sure on the hows and whys about that but I've seen it done). Some advantageous moves could only be applied to some advantageous situations. You could see Falcon raptor boosting to you and Sh Nair and get hit by it, or you could stay grounded and shield grab it or dtilt/jab him.
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Paper Tiger
Smash Rookie
I'm starting to recognize a problem with Marth vs. Fox that I am having with Fox's jab hit confirms. I get jabbed a lot and frequently jump out of hitstun to avoid jab upsmash but sometimes it goes even worse. I would appreciate any comments on this or my general gameplay. Of note, I recognize that I get shine gimped once early in the first game, but I saw that as a mixup on timing. In the second game he seems to recognize my timing of up-b and gets those nice edgehogs that I don't know the answer to as well.
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I'm somewhat new to melee, been playing since December and I'm looking for ways to improve my game. here's some vids of my bad marth.
Tag:Baldr
Sets I've won:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNWKz0MkZeE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a65Q2eGBZrw
Sets I lost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNeG1dHkOsk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YbjbmS71b8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CnbJrPlRZo
Tag:Baldr
Sets I've won:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNWKz0MkZeE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a65Q2eGBZrw
Sets I lost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNeG1dHkOsk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YbjbmS71b8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CnbJrPlRZo
dinn3rr
Smash Cadet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef6Os2eQHuI&list=PL7PyMzXp5vvB9zSC-wwxIsg6Anl0RnxyE&index=11 vs. Falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZSFv2VOyFE&list=PL7PyMzXp5vvB9zSC-wwxIsg6Anl0RnxyE&index=5 vs. Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbHVAdujLSM&index=9&list=PL7PyMzXp5vvDbWBde8j6jGhqPPiRvcZTg vs. Ice Climbers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvYm_PLenqI vs. Fox
Mainly looking for tips vs. Icies/Falcon, but any feedback is really appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZSFv2VOyFE&list=PL7PyMzXp5vvB9zSC-wwxIsg6Anl0RnxyE&index=5 vs. Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbHVAdujLSM&index=9&list=PL7PyMzXp5vvDbWBde8j6jGhqPPiRvcZTg vs. Ice Climbers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvYm_PLenqI vs. Fox
Mainly looking for tips vs. Icies/Falcon, but any feedback is really appreciated.
The Young Izzy Iz
Smash Apprentice
If D-tilt isn't doing it for the Falcon edgeguard you can also go with F-tilt. It's sort of unorthodox but it's like Falco's F-Smash in that it just covers so much space next to the ledge. Even if you don't tipper it as long as it connects you can usually combo into something (usually Fair or Dair) or reset the edge-guard situation.
The Young Izzy Iz
Smash Apprentice
Hey guys, been a while since I posted a video in here so I thought I'd drop something by. I've definitely seen improvement since I started playing and my movements been a lot crispier but I sometimes feel like I still fall into the sort of beginning mistakes like abusing getup attack in sub-optimal situations and going for multiple grabs instead of just wavedashing out during shield pressure. Let me know what ya'll think. I'll go ahead and post some of my own commentary as well.
Game 1 Link Here
First and foremost I'm definitely doing sub-optimal things off my grabs. I know there's a whole list of options and percentages in the Kadano Perfect Marth thread for grabs on Falcon so I already plan to fix this. At 0:23 I did Nair to cover the entire platform, good option. At 0:28 missed sweetspot on the Uair meant I lost a conversion into more Uair's chains/possible F-Smash. 0:34 I spam Nair to cover multiple plats and center stage, just tried to put hitboxes in as many places as possible and it ended up paying off. I notice I'm tending to use Nair more during ambigious air-chase situations these days. 0:39 I use F-smash when F-tilt would have been the more optimal choice, didn't end up mattering in the end though. 0:44 one of my worst habits happen when I full-jump back to center stage after running out of room to dash-dance. You'll see this happen a lot if you watch closely and it becomes pretty predictable that I'm going to do this. 1:02 I get caught on a plat; best option was probably shield drop or possibly full-jump out of shield to the top plat. 1:25 I'm feeling the pressure and Ebola read's me like the sunday morning funny sections in the local newspaper: I got punished hard. 1:48 double Nair did the job but probably wasn't the best option. Not really sure what I should have done so suggestions are appreciated. 2:19 I just start putting up the brick wall. You'll see me do multiple full-jump double fairs and a couple of double-jump triple fairs to keep things fresh but I'm definitely just trying to get some room to think about how I want to close things up. I keep covering the side plat option first, then below the plat. Probably could have used Nair instead of the second fair to cover both sides but it was working well enough. Around 2:30 Ebola gets frustrated and although he gets the hit the conversion isn't there and I pick up on the mistakes, getting the KO.
Game 2 Link Here
Sometimes when I'm moving to avoid Falcon's pressure I find myself at the edge of the stage like at 0:43 and I feel like I don't have anywhere to go so I full jump, there have to be other options here? at 1:25ish I get caught trying to do shennanigans near the ledge and get punished for it. Should I have just WD'd back to grab ledge and gone from there? At 1:35 I foolishly reset to neutral instead of following through on my edgeguard. Around 2:05 Falcon is getting to long-life status and I'm having trouble finding the KO, you can see I'm getting antsy because I'm just throwing out a lot of F-smashes in neutral for 0 reason. Ran out of space again at 2:35ish and full jumped back to center stage, it was totally predictable and punishable but I got lucky. 3:00 I had the right read but I went to far to early and missed an opportunity, probably could have saved it with a WD down F-Smash. 3:18 I stared into Ebola's soul and called the late smash attack. Would have been safer to just ledge-hop Fair after it wiffed though. 3:28 is the classic non-sweet-spotted Dolphin Slash punish. I noticed Ebola was going for this one a lot so I'll try to sweet-spot more in the future. 3:51 He gets me with the falcon punch. No johns, I wasn't even remotely expecting that. . . just, what? 4:15 though I was ready for it and got the grab.
Game 1 Link Here
First and foremost I'm definitely doing sub-optimal things off my grabs. I know there's a whole list of options and percentages in the Kadano Perfect Marth thread for grabs on Falcon so I already plan to fix this. At 0:23 I did Nair to cover the entire platform, good option. At 0:28 missed sweetspot on the Uair meant I lost a conversion into more Uair's chains/possible F-Smash. 0:34 I spam Nair to cover multiple plats and center stage, just tried to put hitboxes in as many places as possible and it ended up paying off. I notice I'm tending to use Nair more during ambigious air-chase situations these days. 0:39 I use F-smash when F-tilt would have been the more optimal choice, didn't end up mattering in the end though. 0:44 one of my worst habits happen when I full-jump back to center stage after running out of room to dash-dance. You'll see this happen a lot if you watch closely and it becomes pretty predictable that I'm going to do this. 1:02 I get caught on a plat; best option was probably shield drop or possibly full-jump out of shield to the top plat. 1:25 I'm feeling the pressure and Ebola read's me like the sunday morning funny sections in the local newspaper: I got punished hard. 1:48 double Nair did the job but probably wasn't the best option. Not really sure what I should have done so suggestions are appreciated. 2:19 I just start putting up the brick wall. You'll see me do multiple full-jump double fairs and a couple of double-jump triple fairs to keep things fresh but I'm definitely just trying to get some room to think about how I want to close things up. I keep covering the side plat option first, then below the plat. Probably could have used Nair instead of the second fair to cover both sides but it was working well enough. Around 2:30 Ebola gets frustrated and although he gets the hit the conversion isn't there and I pick up on the mistakes, getting the KO.
Game 2 Link Here
Sometimes when I'm moving to avoid Falcon's pressure I find myself at the edge of the stage like at 0:43 and I feel like I don't have anywhere to go so I full jump, there have to be other options here? at 1:25ish I get caught trying to do shennanigans near the ledge and get punished for it. Should I have just WD'd back to grab ledge and gone from there? At 1:35 I foolishly reset to neutral instead of following through on my edgeguard. Around 2:05 Falcon is getting to long-life status and I'm having trouble finding the KO, you can see I'm getting antsy because I'm just throwing out a lot of F-smashes in neutral for 0 reason. Ran out of space again at 2:35ish and full jumped back to center stage, it was totally predictable and punishable but I got lucky. 3:00 I had the right read but I went to far to early and missed an opportunity, probably could have saved it with a WD down F-Smash. 3:18 I stared into Ebola's soul and called the late smash attack. Would have been safer to just ledge-hop Fair after it wiffed though. 3:28 is the classic non-sweet-spotted Dolphin Slash punish. I noticed Ebola was going for this one a lot so I'll try to sweet-spot more in the future. 3:51 He gets me with the falcon punch. No johns, I wasn't even remotely expecting that. . . just, what? 4:15 though I was ready for it and got the grab.
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Quiteballin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2014
- Messages
- 16
D
Deleted member
Guest
..........
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Lanertih
Smash Rookie
reference: Who?
I've been playing the game for a few years exclusively as a Doc main, (hence the tag Who?). I have in the past 2 months been trying to pick up Marth partly to learn a Top Tier. I have my own recording setup and have been recording tourney/money matches. I welcome any advice whether it be an individual set, matchups... etc. Please tear into my bad habits!
Also I would appreciate advice on how best to analyze my own replays. Is it best to watch at slower speeds? Should I rewatch specific situations, if so how often and what situations should I be focusing on.
As of now, flaws in my play include weak edge guards, capitalizing on punishes, and finishing stocks.
Dittos: note I play Green Marth
Who?(Marth) vs. FullMetal (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ncR67zIV88
Who?(Marth) vs. BadK1d (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHpYI3MJF1Q
Vs. Shiek
Who?(Marth) vs. Llama (Shiek)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKNbduCJcd4
Who?(Marth) vs. DAB (Shiek)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v32qn6BpGho
Who?(Marth) vs. BaeBlade(Shiek/Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JLtsDAYFME
Vs. Falco
Who?(Marth) vs Hop(Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4ixW4K_cE
Who?(Marth) vs. YoungJohn(Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGN1i-qrCVo
Vs. Fox
Who?(Marth) vs. Barracuda(Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpbKeE7C6UU
Who?(Marth) vs. aquamelen(Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvD_gMmWtU
I've been playing the game for a few years exclusively as a Doc main, (hence the tag Who?). I have in the past 2 months been trying to pick up Marth partly to learn a Top Tier. I have my own recording setup and have been recording tourney/money matches. I welcome any advice whether it be an individual set, matchups... etc. Please tear into my bad habits!
Also I would appreciate advice on how best to analyze my own replays. Is it best to watch at slower speeds? Should I rewatch specific situations, if so how often and what situations should I be focusing on.
As of now, flaws in my play include weak edge guards, capitalizing on punishes, and finishing stocks.
Dittos: note I play Green Marth
Who?(Marth) vs. FullMetal (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ncR67zIV88
Who?(Marth) vs. BadK1d (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHpYI3MJF1Q
Vs. Shiek
Who?(Marth) vs. Llama (Shiek)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKNbduCJcd4
Who?(Marth) vs. DAB (Shiek)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v32qn6BpGho
Who?(Marth) vs. BaeBlade(Shiek/Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JLtsDAYFME
Vs. Falco
Who?(Marth) vs Hop(Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4ixW4K_cE
Who?(Marth) vs. YoungJohn(Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGN1i-qrCVo
Vs. Fox
Who?(Marth) vs. Barracuda(Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpbKeE7C6UU
Who?(Marth) vs. aquamelen(Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvD_gMmWtU
I played you at a Flashback monthly while you were still Doc. I was Ganon. Coincidentally, I too am trying to pick up a Marth! I'm a Marth noob too, but I noticed a few small things:
1) when Fox (Baeblade) is up-Bing below stage, you usually try to time a tipper fsmash. It's better to counter, IMO, since the move is easier to time due to its long duration and is (as far as I know) harder to tech. Once the counter connects, immediately run off the stage, following the space animal in the downward trajectory they were sent in by the counter. They will be forced to up-B, at which time you can fair them and then up-B to the ledge. It's free. If they drop really low to avoid the fair after the counter, then you can grab ledge.
2) You try to dtilt Fox's side-B, but I think jab is better because it lasts longer and has a larger hitbox, and so it's easier to time and space. I think this is the method M2K uses.
3) You go for nairs when you could get an upair. Sometimes this means you don't start a juggle when you could start one; at other times it means you end a combo earlier than you needed to.
I know (3) is right, but I don't want to spread any misinformation with (1) and (2).
Other Marths, are (1) and (2) correct?
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DieHard
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2015
- Messages
- 4
If someone could critique my first game of this crew battle that would be very much appreciated
(I'm the green marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TKk3GtnZ1k
(I'm the green marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TKk3GtnZ1k
karlosxwow
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 3
https://youtu.be/8zW5nK4Mqgc
What could I do better?
I will post the gf soon. If you don't mint, I would appreciate if you can give some advice for my fox.
What could I do better?
I will post the gf soon. If you don't mint, I would appreciate if you can give some advice for my fox.
Hey guys need some marth vs falco tips. macro/micro game improvements. where do i keep getting hit. plz help i need some dank pointers. any bad habits from the falco would be good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nqygGkmhs gfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6vTeP473s wfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nqygGkmhs gfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6vTeP473s wfs
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PoppaSquat
Smash Rookie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stEiE1RbDV4&index=8&list=PLkil9E0TIsCy8hOhytcplEa5o3mIbXPtR
hey guys, just had a tournament in Charlotte NC yesterday where I had to fight Bonfire10. For playing against such a good player (Bonfire has 20 stocked a crew in TMG) I think I played really well in neutral. I focused a lot on the RPS interactions and trying to counter his playstyle. However, I'm not proud of my punish game. If you guys could give me any tips on comboing/ killing after my neutral exchanges that'd be incredibly helpful! and as always any help is appreciated, even if its not related to punish game.
Thanks again!
Poppa Squat
hey guys, just had a tournament in Charlotte NC yesterday where I had to fight Bonfire10. For playing against such a good player (Bonfire has 20 stocked a crew in TMG) I think I played really well in neutral. I focused a lot on the RPS interactions and trying to counter his playstyle. However, I'm not proud of my punish game. If you guys could give me any tips on comboing/ killing after my neutral exchanges that'd be incredibly helpful! and as always any help is appreciated, even if its not related to punish game.
Thanks again!
Poppa Squat
You aren't getting the guaranteed stuff of off up-throw consistently which is costing you %, juggle opportunities, and ultimately edge guard/stock taking chances. I'd check Kadano's thread for it, but I start up-tilting at 22% and stop at 35%. Above that, you can still hit the different DIs a lot of the time with different aerials, but I wouldn't go for a grounded move since she'll just double jump out.
You could be capitalizing so much harder on every grab if you knew all the %s. Learning it from the Kadano thread would be a simple and easy way of quickly becoming a better player with minimal effort. This would have been especially crucial on game 1, since getting sheik into the air is necessary to really start up your longer juggles, which work really well on FD.
You don't seem to be using grabs as well as you could, and you let your fairs be crouch cancelled often. Remember, attacks don't only deal damage, they can also be used to threaten an opponent. Short hop into waveland grab is a completely viable option if you think your opponent is waiting for the cc punish.
Refrence code: Ladder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clop-pM9w6Q
I think I was playing really below my usual level, but any advice is welcome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clop-pM9w6Q
I think I was playing really below my usual level, but any advice is welcome
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Ladder
You have a lot of superfluous movement. You also oftentimes swing for attacks without enough justification. In a convoluted way, some of your aerials in neutral seem fine, but you don't space very well. Watch: - every time that you do a SHFFL'd aerial - 95% of the time you don't drift back at all. You use your full run momentum to jump forward. These kinds of aerials are the least safe that you can do as Marth. The general rule of thumb is that if you are going to swing without a guarantee that you will be hitting the enemy, at least try to attack in such a way that you have some semblance of safety after the whiff. Also, remember that non-sweetspotted attacks as Marth can sometimes be punished even if they connect; for example, certain of his very weak sourspot moves ... or especially in the case of crouch cancelling.
My advice to you is to think more about your opponent's options. I noticed that you don't always do the best job of accounting for how the opponent will move or act, which is why you kept getting hit when you were dashing or wavedashing. Try to get a better grasp on the concept of frame advantage; i.e., when you put someone in a knockdown state, how long you have them locked into defensive options.
Feel free to let me know if you need anything clarified or elaborated on.
Not just that, but I think he also needs to watch out for his follow ups, and pay attention to the percents. Up tilt regrab only works around 40% and up, I don't know the upper limit. However you seemed to often go for that, and then not realize that you couldn't regrab yet, try and regrab, wiff, and punished. Hell, there was one moment when you were waiting for the getup attack, and you mistimed the regrab, which was really frustrating because I was hoping you would instead just tipper fsmash. Overall, practice your follow up game I guess.
ChivalRuse
I completely agree on the things you said, but what exactly do you mean by superfluous movement?
True, that's the first thing I did after the tournament, grind out my chaingrabs and punishes vs cpu's
sejoon700
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2015
- Messages
- 2
Been playing on and off for a year and I don't seem to be improving. I have terrible move choices and oftentimes cannot react to something even though my mind knows what I should be doing. I also struggle to do instant uairs. Any criticism and tips would help a lot.
https://vid.me/SW3u
https://vid.me/SW3u
I see a lot of potential, but what I see most is that you have a very unsafe neutral game. Next time you play try and pay attention to spacing your fairs, and playing it safe, try and understand when your opponent attacks, and where he'll attack. You don't need to play well, or even worry about getting a ton of goods grabs, just get good at understanding how to bait an opponent, and how to make smart, safe decisions.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Superfluous meaning you move without really seeming to know what you're trying to accomplish. Or the movement option that you choose doesn't help you to avoid the opponent's attacks in some situations. Every time you dash, wavedash, jump, waveland, etc., try to reason in your head specifically what purpose is being served by that choice; make sure that it aims to interact with the options you think your opponent is going for - don't just move around on an empty whim.
I completely agree on the things you said, but what exactly do you mean by superfluous movement?
Not just that, though, for example, look at this: https://clips.twitch.tv/meleeeveryday/DistinctDragonflySoonerLater
Drugged fox wasn't thinking about chaingrabbing, he recognized that rushing in, and not thinking about how to follow up wasn't smart, and saw that his opponent had a limited number of moves. Let's break this down further. Ice could either getup attack, but the animation for that is obvious, and if he went for it, Drugged fox could wait for it to end and grab to punish. He could do a normal getup, but once more, this is very punishable. He could getup roll backwards, but as soon as DruggedFox sees the direction, he can follow and grab him at ledge to downthrow. Lastly, Ice can try and do something DruggedFox might not expect, which is to roll in, AKA try and cheese him.
What's important in this situation is the amount of patience, and understanding of the follow up game that DruggedFox has in this situation, he doesn't go into dash dance, because he knows it's pointless, and might get him punished, he positions himself perfectly for a forward roll regrab, and he doesn't try and do a jab reset, because if Ice notices this he can do a roll away which is harder to punish, or maybe a getup attack if DruggedFox doesn't cc. In the end, this was the best possible situation.
What I meant when I talked about your lack of punish and follow up game isn't just that you don't always get regrabs, but also you don't think enough about your opponents options, and you often don't punish mis-techs, or try and get in your opponents head when they do. Even though my example was a read based punish, you also need to think about punishes that can't be read, and how to react to an opponents possible moves.
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