ESAM's ZP Monthly tournaments 12/11/10 Dastrn's Will

[[FBC] ESAM]

People complained that I separated by skill before, so I just separated by teams. People would be angry that when there were 4 good people in SFL (Me, Riddle, Seibrik, and MVD, Shaky was on his hiatus and Xaltis was getting bettter) that we were separated into different quarters. So I stopped separating by skill and made the players on each half balanced. So now...people are complaining that I wasn't playing any PR people early on? Lol wow, you guys are ****ing ********. If I make my bracket harder I'm making somebody else's easier so they are just going to ***** about that.

 

[DFEAR]

i "could" beat everyone...i just dont >___>

 

[Xaltis]

i "could" beat everyone...i just dont >___>

You shoulda beat Shaky and CO18... T_T

 

[GDX]

People complained that I separated by skill before, so I just separated by teams. People would be angry that when there were 4 good people in SFL (Me, Riddle, Seibrik, and MVD, Shaky was on his hiatus and Xaltis was getting bettter) that we were separated into different quarters. So I stopped separating by skill and made the players on each half balanced. So now...people are complaining that I wasn't playing any PR people early on? Lol wow, you guys are ****ing ********. If I make my bracket harder I'm making somebody else's easier so they are just going to ***** about that.

im not complaining about you not playing PR members early on. im just saying balance out the skill levels across the entire bracket.

and who complained about seperating the 4 best players in different quarters? thats the best way to even it out. whoever said that is a ******

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Bracket seemed fine to me.

All that mattered was team separation and that Seibrik, Riddle, & ESAM had their own portion of the bracket. It's not ESAM's fault that there's actually a lot more good players in SFL.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Everybody that wasn't the 4 being separated complain. Its like "We always have to play our friends first because you guys are being separated and then you guys always get to finals without playing each other."

And since they are the people that go to my tournaments, I cater to them more than the voice of CFL who criticize but never show up...

 

[MBmoney]

Brackets are brackets. If you're really good, you'll get far regardless of brackets.

Also I kinda agree with 8Bit about starting doubles/singles sooner so people aren't exhausted by the time it starts. Then you can chill and hold the fun side events like the random tourney at the end when people are tired.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Brackets are brackets. If you're really good, you'll get far regardless of brackets.

Manly quote right here.

 

[gallax]

Brackets are brackets. If you're really good, you'll get far regardless of brackets.

Not always true.

 

[gallax]

That's all I read. Looks like he gave people that needed it more than PR players a chance to. Honestly it seems fine to me. This is coming from the guy that treats everyone the same.Then again m just a Peach player you choose to play mk against XD so i'm bad

Y so salty?





And esam, dont take what im saying the wrong way. Im not saying in any way that you wouldnt have gotten top5 at this thing. Everyone knows ur good. Im just saying that you can still generate a bracket that takes into account teams and player ability. That is all. Ive seen these zps tourneys have bad bracket a few times b4 this one and i held my opinions to myself. Im not even wanting to start a controversy here. The brackets at ZP could be better. That is all.

 

[NickRiddle]

Option A: Seed by skill, and have players complain that all the "best" people are not next to each other, making it harder for those who aren't "the best".

Option B: Seed by skill, and have players complain that all the "best" people are clumped up on one side, while other of the "best" players have nobody "good" near them.

Option C: Seed by seeding points, and have events like NickRiddle and Gallax playing each other multiple tournaments in a row, causing complaints.

Option D: Seed by random, and have complain about A, B, or C.

Option E: Dance around your computer, and hope it makes everybody happy on it's own.



I guess it's option E time, guys.

 

[gallax]

No NICK!!!! I wanna keep complaining about not being perfect.

 

[Two-Ell]

...I left my copy of Melee at the venue T.T

Sadly I'm not sure if anyone that finds it will make notice here, but if anyone did notice it and has it please let me know. Also Nick and Xaltis sorry you guys couldn't finish your PPL MM. I have to leave for the bus at 8 whenever I go to these otherwise I'd be stuck walking an hour or two home lol.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

if we dont seed players

ya the good players will knock each other out earlier


but do u really want to also worry about the good players in the losers that early on?


look at this tourny
i lose to shaky like round 3ish

then i had to knock chaz/xaltis/mvd/shaky out in a row

wen if i wasn't there, any of those matches could have DEFINATELY gone either way

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

And esam, dont take what im saying the wrong way. Im not saying in any way that you wouldnt have gotten top5 at this thing. Everyone knows ur good. Im just saying that you can still generate a bracket that takes into account teams and player ability. That is all. Ive seen these zps tourneys have bad bracket a few times b4 this one and i held my opinions to myself. Im not even wanting to start a controversy here. The brackets at ZP could be better. That is all.

I know you are smart enough to not think I wouldn't do good.

They used to be better, but people complained. I am going to go with the more present people at my tournament as opposed to outsiders looking in.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Im quite far from salty sir

 

[Masky]

I think it's funny how CFL is complaining about SFL brackets (wtf?) when NLL usually has the worst brackets iirc

 

[GDX]

I think it's funny how CFL is complaining about SFL brackets (wtf?) when NLL usually has the worst brackets iirc

yea, they are bad. no one said they werent

the difference here is that ESAM is using TIO, which he can change around, and NLL is using a different program that cant be changed at all once starting

i honestly dont see what the big deal is. as a TO your main job is usually to make the bracket as equal across the board as possible with what you are given, while avoiding people playing each other's friends 1st round, if possible

 

[LoliLovesRain]

No one who attended the tourney said anything about the bracket not being good though. As a TO wouldn't your main job be to cater to those who attend the tourney and to make it as fair to THEM as possible? I mean if you guys actually came down to this like you say you would and came down as much as we go up to your tourneys then he'd probably take into consideration how you felt about the brackets but since you don't then it's whatever.

Also, it actually doesn't matter where you are in the bracket if you're supposed to be one of the "best" =/ don't get mad at me i was just stating some..stuff... <3

 

[GDX]

lol. even the times i went to the ZP tourneys the brackets were bad. and every time i was there i said the brackets were bad, to Chaz and esam , to which esam just said things like "o well" or "sorry guys".

it doesnt matter who goes to whos tourneys any amount, these simple rules go for any TO in the nation. We could be talking about a tourney in ****ing Alaska, and if i saw their PRs and i saw a bracket and it looked bad/unbalanced/stacked, **** straight id make a comment about it. Im not even saying the bracket construed the end results of the tourney cause it probably would've been the same results anyway.

Making the bracket equally hard across all quarters/parts of the brackets IS ALREADY FAIR TO EVERYONE WHO ENTERED THE TOURNEY.THATS ACTUALLY THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT FAIR TO LITERALLY "EVERYONE" WHO ENTERED THE TOURNEY. making it equally filled with good/PR players while seperating the rest from their friends as much as possible is how a tourney is supposed to be made, bracket wise. At least i was under that assumption, and thats how I've ran brackets when I've had power over them.

And even if you are "one of the best" you should'nt have an overly hard bracket just because of that. The bracket should be as equal as feasibly possible to everyone, good or bad. thats whats fair for everyone thats there, right?

I honestly dont even know why you guys are arguing what im saying, unless youre bored or something. I've just been stating make it more fair for everyone...I'm not even sure what you people are arguing anymore.

 

[Master Raven]

Huh?

I don't know about you guys but I would think that brackets are almost, if not purely separated based on the PR. The only time I can see taking friendship into account of the bracket's setup at all is if it were OOS people or some other special occasion. It may sound cold, but really when you think about it, nearly everyone in the scene are buddies to one another anyway, so how can you possibly arrange the bracket on the basis of friendship?

 

[GDX]

Huh?

I don't know about you guys but I would think that brackets are almost, if not purely separated based on the PR. The only time I can see taking friendship into account of the bracket's setup at all is if it were OOS people or some other special occasion. It may sound cold, but really when you think about it, nearly everyone in the scene are buddies to one another anyway, so how can you possibly arrange the bracket on the basis of friendship?

i was talking about people aside from the PR members, and try to seperate those unranked players by location/friends/came in same car as best as you can

 

[Master Raven]

Oh

-rereads-

... I read "FAIR" as "FAIL" >_>

 

[NickRiddle]

I would hit random.
It 100% is not fair if the bracket is done any other way.
It is not fair, in the sense that the "best" people are "guaranteed" to make it until theym eet, assuming they're actually better than everybody else.
**** yeah, I never want to get lucky, ever.
Man, if I was a mediocre player, I'd just LOVE the chance to always lose to the #1, #2, #4, or #5 in winners, and then probably again in losers. (For SFL, assuming it's separated, those 4 would be in the 4 corners.)
That's not fair at all, as 1, 2, 4, and 5 get a "free ride" until they play each other, way late in the bracket.

I mean, if you guys only wanna win money by causing upsets, in which case, **** it. Let's just seed by skill, and have the "better" players get "free rides". I mean, I'm one of those guys, so I'm all for it.

 

[Toneh]

I would hit random.
It 100% is not fair if the bracket is done any other way.
It is not fair, in the sense that the "best" people are "guaranteed" to make it until theym eet, assuming they're actually better than everybody else.
**** yeah, I never want to get lucky, ever.
Man, if I was a mediocre player, I'd just LOVE the chance to always lose to the #1, #2, #4, or #5 in winners, and then probably again in losers. (For SFL, assuming it's separated, those 4 would be in the 4 corners.)
That's not fair at all, as 1, 2, 4, and 5 get a "free ride" until they play each other, way late in the bracket.

I mean, if you guys only wanna win money by causing upsets, in which case, **** it. Let's just seed by skill, and have the "better" players get "free rides". I mean, I'm one of those guys, so I'm all for it.

For smaller locals yeah, what your saying does make kinda sense. That or do pools and that sets up the bracket every time.

 

[gallax]

Just eff it all. Hit random and whatever happens goes.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Bracket seemed fine to me.

All that mattered was team separation and that Seibrik, Riddle, & ESAM had their own portion of the bracket. It's not ESAM's fault that there's actually a lot more good players in SFL.

Brackets are brackets. If you're really good, you'll get far regardless of brackets.

Manly quotes right here.


Also, good stuff Seibrik going through Chaz, Xaltis, MVD, and Shaky.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

i vote for pools all the time every time


then seed by pools


most practice/"fair" seeding

 

[Albert.]

^^^ That sounds fun!

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

PR wins against PRs + Non-PRs with a PR win:

Seibrik > Chaz
......... > Xaltis
......... > MVD
......... > Shaky

ESAM > Shaky
........ > Seibrik

NickRiddle > Afro
............. > MVD
............. > ESAM x2

MVD > CO18

Shaky > Seibrik
........ > Afro

Afro > Chaz
...... > CO18


Non-PR wins against PR:

CO18 > Xaltis

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

can u copy/paste that into the PR thread plz? thxxxx

 

[Two-Ell]

I love the idea, but If we do pools then singles better be the first event. There's usually around thirty people at these things. Six five man pools with the amount of TVs we have it'll take forever.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

can u copy/paste that into the PR thread plz? thxxxx

Done.... annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd............................ done!

 

[DFEAR]

I love the idea, but If we do pools then singles better be the first event. There's usually around thirty people at these things. Six five man pools with the amount of TVs we have it'll take forever.

CANT do singles without pools :\

 

[Albert.]

Yeah but smart pool sizes and seeding would make a much smaller bracket, which would significantly expedite that portion of the tournament.

Obvious statement is obvious.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

>_> People complain about how late it ends as it is...you want me to extend it by an hour or two?

 

[Two-Ell]

At this point I'm mixed on pools or not. Eh it's up to you really. There's some good points for considering pools and some bad ones. I can go in detail on them if you want. Personally I'm just saying if pools are considered singles will def have to be the first event. I don't want to see you guys having kicking your side event to the curb to get some more time though. You guys seem to have fun with that plus they give time for people to friendly/warm up.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'm not doing pools. There wasn't even a consideration for them. I'll probably do side events last now, thank you whoever said that, but I won't do pools for singles. It is just silly.

 

[GreenAce]

Yo next side event random singles or project m.

 

[Xaltis]

I'm down for random singles and or doubles

And I'm ready for pools. I have my Sonic towel. = D