Wikipedia
Smash Lord
I say we wait on egruntz, he could be SOOO useful. And he isn't hurting us by just being here. He is definitely someone we should wait on, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and not lynch him today.
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Eor's Hellhouse Mafia - Night 2 (totally cancelled)
- Thread starter Eor
- Start date
smashman90
Smash Lord
I couldn't help but rofl when I found this.
Not anymore.
His role, if it's what he claims it is, has become worthless to the town through his own actions.
He's not a player the mafia need to be afraid of. All they need to do is avoid him. There's no reason for them to target him now.
Unvote:Egruntz
As soon as I read all of that(he had already said most of that stuff earlier in the thread, I kept it in the back of my mind, but I stopped hesitating when I read the, "My name is Leonidas" part his post"), I thought
If we say, "Everyone vote Egruntz, if you really are town, there's nothing to be afraid of", what can the opposition possibly do?
Besides, they'll have to target him eventually, and if doing so is as desperate as it seems, it's likely that there won't even be two mafia members at that point.
Another reason I unvoted him is because I'd hate to be in a situation where he would decide to kill me just because he wanted to kill me out of anger due to my tone of voice, instead of trying to kill someone who he truly believed to be mafia.
As soon as I read all of that(he had already said most of that stuff earlier in the thread, I kept it in the back of my mind, but I stopped hesitating when I read the, "My name is Leonidas" part his post"), I thought
But then...
Not exactly, we may be able to reach some sort of sick and twisted agreement with him in which he promises he'll let us kill him later on in the game so we can get rid of anybody we believe to be mafia. This way we can truly be sure whether or not if he was lying, and if he wasn't, we would have killed some mafia members, or at least be able to deduce who would be mafia by looking at who didn't want to go along with.
If we say, "Everyone vote Egruntz, if you really are town, there's nothing to be afraid of", what can the opposition possibly do?
Besides, they'll have to target him eventually, and if doing so is as desperate as it seems, it's likely that there won't even be two mafia members at that point.
Another reason I unvoted him is because I'd hate to be in a situation where he would decide to kill me just because he wanted to kill me out of anger due to my tone of voice, instead of trying to kill someone who he truly believed to be mafia.
smashman90
Smash Lord
Well, we would have to have egruntz agree to that. Secondly, the mafia could use egruntz's ability against us and make him kill two townies(3 counting egruntz) near the end of the game.
Yes, hence the term, "agreement". Besides, Egruntz should not have a problem with it if he really is town, as he'll die for the better good. It would take a lot of trust on both sides, though.
Don't get me wrong, I know the consequences of what could happen if we go along with this, but it could very well be avoided if we're very careful about this. Egruntz says that there is a window of time where he can choose who to kill, he'll have to use his better judgment and belief in certain members to be effective when the time comes.
His agreeing to us eventually killing him assures that if he is lying, he'll be punished accordingly. Yet, if he is telling the truth, we'll surely get some information on who and who not to trust. No matter the outcome, we will be glad to find out the truth and do ourselves some good.
Also, what I suggested was just an idea in its first stages, I am far too tired and my mind is too foggy from alcohol to trust myself to go further into detail about it, maybe later on the first day of the year I'll give it a go, or if someone else does, that'd be great too. Of course, there will be people who will disagree with this, and there will be people who go along with it and give their own suggestions.
For now, I say we wait for more opinions on the current situation(another reason why Eor should PM the inactives), maybe there's something to be found here, or maybe I'll be shot down, either way, it'll help us reach a decision by the end of day 1.
If we do go along with this,remember this, Egruntz must agree that he won't object to us killing him for the better good, and won't take advantage of his powers to intentionally kill a trusted member.
So many loopholes, problems, and exploitations could go with this though, hell, us trusting him is hard enough, and he'll be having his limbs pulled in all directions, it'd be great if we could find someone to lynch now and focus more on this on day 2.
How could such an agreement possibly work?
First of all, egruntz would have to not be mafia. At this point, I don't think we can be anywhere near sure that he's town. Secondly, who's he going to get these orders from? A mafia member could sway him to kill two townies just as easily as a townie could sway him to kill two mafia. Moreover, we can't force the mafia members to vote for him and get killed. How are we going to tell him to kill these specific players without letting them know we're going to do it? It's impossible. Finally, how can we possibly hold him to this promise? If we're going to kill him anyway, he has literally nothing to lose by disobeying our orders and killing whoever he wants to.
This plan is entirely ill conceived. egruntz's role is worthless. There's no way around it.
So you're saying we'll know if he's lying after he's dead? Okay, yeah, but we can do that now. There's no reason to wait until near the end of the game, when the towns numbers will probably be so low that a risk like this will terrify people even more than it does now.
Because neither egruntz nor any town member has the ability to magically know who's mafia and who's not. Even cops will only know the allegiances of a few players who may or may not be mafia, and the cops will be hesitant to reveal their role for fear of being nightkilled.
How can we assure townies they have nothing to fear when we won't know who's townies and who's not?
I'm not going to deny that there's some risk in voting for egruntz, but that risk will still be there on day 14, and the town will have even more to lose then. The time to take this risk is now, not when our numbers have thinned so much that taking such a risk will be nearly impossible.
No. If this is a classic mafia game, they won't ever have to target egruntz.
In traditional rules, the mafia wins as soon as they outnumber the town. This game may operate under different rules, but we'll have to wait for Eor to post before we'll know for sure.
Anyhow, even if there are two mafia members, all they have to do is nightkill him or get a number of town players to vote for him. There's no reason to expect them both to risk getting killed off when only one mafia member is needed to take egruntz down.
Of course, all this is assuming that egruntz is town, an assumption for which I have seen very little evidence.
Well, yeah, that would suck.
However, I've already stated that I'm willing to sacrifice myself to get this lynch, if what egruntz says turns out to be true. If he's a townie, he'll be willing to cast the last vote on himself rather than force someone else to make the sacrifice, meaning that the only town player who will die off if he's telling the truth will be me.
If egruntz isn't willing to cast a vote for himself once it's clear he will be lynched, he's either been lying about his role or isn't playing for the town at all.
Marshigo, why are you so willing to trust egruntz?
Unless you're privy to some information that the rest of us aren't, you can't possibly know what side your strategy would benefit. You seem to believe, for some reason that I don't really understand, that egruntz is town. I see very little evidence to support this belief.
egruntz's power as a townie is all but gone. As a townie, all his power enables him to do is hang on for dear life.
As a mafia, it will enable him to do the same thing, but that's a much more valuable ability for a mafia player than it is for a town. If we allow him to hang around indefinitely, he could singlehandedly carry the mafia to victory.
It's obvious where the greater risk is in this situation. I do not understand why you insist on arguing on egruntz's behalf.
Unless you're privy to some information that the rest of us aren't, you can't possibly know what side your strategy would benefit. You seem to believe, for some reason that I don't really understand, that egruntz is town. I see very little evidence to support this belief.
egruntz's power as a townie is all but gone. As a townie, all his power enables him to do is hang on for dear life.
As a mafia, it will enable him to do the same thing, but that's a much more valuable ability for a mafia player than it is for a town. If we allow him to hang around indefinitely, he could singlehandedly carry the mafia to victory.
It's obvious where the greater risk is in this situation. I do not understand why you insist on arguing on egruntz's behalf.
Why are we ignoring how scummy OWM has played <_<
just curious
just curious
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I consider egruntz to be by far the most scummy player in the game right now.
I'd also support lynching smashbot over OWM, because smashbot has demonstrated a lack of understanding about the game and an overly casual attitude when it comes to his posts. I don't find OWM to be nearly as careless as smashbot has been, and not really any more scummy.
If there was a movement to lynch OWM at this point, I might go along with it. However, we're running lower and lower on time, and I can't afford to go after somebody when I think there are better possibilities out there.
That's why I'm not focusing on him. Others will have to speak for themselves.
Thanks for answering at least
i can agree with Egruntz scummy playing as well
i can agree with Egruntz scummy playing as well
Unless egruntz has somehow come up with a extrememly brilliant fake role I don't see how he could be mafia. Even if he is lying the only way to get around this would be a investigation or a night kill. I think anytime spent discussing egruntz would be a waste.
Well, I hope some people will at least vote or else we'll end up with a essential no lynch.
Well, I hope some people will at least vote or else we'll end up with a essential no lynch.
spam_master
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Messages
- 0
Whatever, here's hoping someone kills egruntz in the night because I DO NOT want him in the endgame, he's to much of a wildcard for the mafia to swing even if he isn't one.
Vote:smashbot
He's an idiot, I want to see his role and name claim. It should be farily obvious if he's mafia, but it really doesn't even matter, we don't have time anymore.
Vote:smashbot
He's an idiot, I want to see his role and name claim. It should be farily obvious if he's mafia, but it really doesn't even matter, we don't have time anymore.
You know, as soon as that plan came to my mind, I thought, "It's impossible" just like Mediocre said, because there is no way to keep egruntz bound to this. I figured that the only way of this ever working was if we had someone protect egruntz during the night, which likely wouldn't happen since someone would have to show their hand, and then the mafia would know who to kill, and it would just be a chain reaction of townie deaths just to have a shot to get some mafias. The reason I even brought it up was because I hoped that I had overlooked something in the plan that someone else would pick up, and in turn, make this plan able to work and a lot safer. Doesn't seem to be anything there though.
His careless response to my earlier post:
I thought that maybe someone would be able to come up with an impossible solution where we would have egruntz on a firm grip, but seeing as that isn't going to happen, I'm not going to push for this plan. Like I said earlier, I was merely throwing it out there to see if anyone could solve (at least in my eyes at the time)an impossible puzzle.
I would never trust egruntz in this game at all. His quickness to reveal his role just to scare people away makes me think that he doesn't care who dies as long as he gets to survive to the end of the game, even if he has other townies die for him.
His careless response to my earlier post:
When I saw that, I was certain egruntz was thinking, "I don't care what you say, because I get to kill you". I'm sure that's why he's had such a carefree attitude when it came to other posters pushing him.
I thought that maybe someone would be able to come up with an impossible solution where we would have egruntz on a firm grip, but seeing as that isn't going to happen, I'm not going to push for this plan. Like I said earlier, I was merely throwing it out there to see if anyone could solve (at least in my eyes at the time)an impossible puzzle.
I think egruntz came up with a fake role where he would kill anyone who killed him. Then, he slowly evolved the role in response to the new strategies that were thought up by various other players.
Notice how his role always changes to make it impossible for anyone to kill him without possibly taking some significant damage.
If I had been smarter, I would have gotten him to roleclaim completely before revealing my plan to have him cast the final vote on himself. Unfortunately, I didn't have to foresight for that.
Both of those are options that, if they work out well, would be significantly superior to a lynch if he's telling the truth about his role.
However, making use of those abilities will require the possible sacrifice of either the cop or the vigalante, a sacrifice that they may not be willing to make.
The sacrifice that the vigilante would be making is obvious. If egruntz is telling the truth, the vigilante would die.
The cop, on the other hand, would have to reveal himself to convince anyone that egruntz was mafia, or to let us know that egruntz was town. This is a sacrifice that would be stupid to make early in the game, because he would likely be killed. It's also quite possible that something could happen that would prevent him from doing this late in the game. If the cop happens to be nightkilled by someone, he will be unable to tell anyone the results of his investigations.
I'm not saying that the cop and vigilante roles are worthless, but the town cannot totally rely on them, especially in a case like this where there's such a clear pattern. That's why I'm pushing for a lynch for egruntz, rather than giving him a free pass and hoping that something happens at night to take care of him.
Yeah, no kidding.
smashbot226
Smash Master
Wow...
That is incredibly idiotic. If you think he's a wild card and don't trust him...
WHY ARE YOU PUTTING YOURSELF AND OTHERS AT RISK BY VOTING FOR ME?
It's like you completely make a good point at voting for egruntz...
then you make a crapshoot and vote for me, simply cause you want to see my role.
If egruntz is a wild card, JUST VOTE FOR HIM!
That isn't smart.
smashman90
Smash Lord
It's simple, spam master doesn't want to be targeted by egruntz if he isn't lying.
Are you threatening us?
so your defense is that there is a better reason to vote for egruntz?
More and more I'm thinking that you may be mafia simply because your defense consists of (I'm paraphrasing):
"I had a sugar rush"
and my personal favorite:
"You are stupid to vote for me."
You aren't making it clear which side you're on though, possibly because you know that <3 can "tell" if you're lying or not, as he's said recently with him declaring flipstar not mafia.
More and more I'm thinking that you may be mafia simply because your defense consists of (I'm paraphrasing):
"I had a sugar rush"
and my personal favorite:
"You are stupid to vote for me."
You aren't making it clear which side you're on though, possibly because you know that <3 can "tell" if you're lying or not, as he's said recently with him declaring flipstar not mafia.
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
You know what would be really cool? If Ergruntz would, if he is telling the truth, take smashbot and <3 out with him so everything would be busted out wide open for Day 2.
Smashbot, do something productive like tell us who you suspect and why.
Smashbot, do something productive like tell us who you suspect and why.
Mr.Lombardi34
Smash Ace
That would be good, but super incredibly risky.
I also agree with pythag. The way smashbot defends is a little bit weired. And the fact that I don't think he read any of the thread and just wants to spam. Like I said before, we can poke egruntz on day 2.
smashman90
Smash Lord
It ends on Jan.3 at midnight
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
Eor, we need a vote count.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
...right.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
Omegawhitemage, you wanna put together another vote **** for us?
spam_master
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Messages
- 0
First of all, smashbot you are in no postion to call anyone an idiot.
If we kill you then only you die, not much of a loss and we gain some info of who we can and can't trust based on who voted for you. Like if your mafia then pythag 99.9% isn't, and so forth.
But, if we kill egruntz and he's telling the truth thats 3 people, and if he's mafia with a roll like that (not impossible) we lose two good people.
I'm hoping that the vigilante or serial killer takes him out, because according to his role he oly reacts to an nightkill if that person is mafia, and if he's lieng he is still dead.
And Secondly, eor really needs to post a vote count. He said he would post one when their is intent to kill and now there is on two people.
If we kill you then only you die, not much of a loss and we gain some info of who we can and can't trust based on who voted for you. Like if your mafia then pythag 99.9% isn't, and so forth.
But, if we kill egruntz and he's telling the truth thats 3 people, and if he's mafia with a roll like that (not impossible) we lose two good people.
I'm hoping that the vigilante or serial killer takes him out, because according to his role he oly reacts to an nightkill if that person is mafia, and if he's lieng he is still dead.
And Secondly, eor really needs to post a vote count. He said he would post one when their is intent to kill and now there is on two people.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
*Count not ****
Eor edit: No cursing people
Eor edit: No cursing people
It's hellhouse meaning it's suppose to be complicated/chaotic.
But...that's an excuse.
Everybody tell me who you're voting for right now. I've only been skimming for the last 13 pages, which is around half a thousand posts, and probably around as much vote changing from what I've seen. Post who you're voting for to make it much easier for me. Sorry for messing up on this
But...that's an excuse.
Everybody tell me who you're voting for right now. I've only been skimming for the last 13 pages, which is around half a thousand posts, and probably around as much vote changing from what I've seen. Post who you're voting for to make it much easier for me. Sorry for messing up on this
As of now, I don't have a vote on anyone.
Mr.Lombardi34
Smash Ace
Vote: Smashbot (Again)
ReVote: egruntz
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
vote: smashbot