Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[Aggressive Mediation]

I voiced those same qualms about Kantrip's vote for me a couple pages back. But I put DH back on the table because I realized it cleared up the other problems from the thread. I've been suspicious of him since joining the game, hence my NA on him. DH is a good pick.

If you think Kantrip is indy, then see this as an attempt to take a truth (DH is mafia) and pair it with a falsehood (indy pair) to give himself lynch room down the road. DH being mafia is a separate and potentially powerful point.

What inconsistencies? You explain nothing here.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I didn't use that word. You're confused.

Uh. What if there was no NK because DH is mafia? I'm sure someone's mentioned already that that would solve every conflict. My thinking has been caught in the idea that my ability is checking alignments, but it's really custom-built for stopping NKS, which from mafia always stretch across two factions. That could be what we're seeing with DH.

Is there any reason he couldn't be mafia, via interactions?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Laundry, what if Kantrip were an indy plant abductor who abducted people by planting them during the Day?

I hilariously considered the idea, but PB's not in the game so I don't think it'd be here.

But really though, I considered it but I'd be incredibly surprised if Gova straight ripped the role from my game. I think it could be an abductor with the plant flavor but I think it's just a regular abductor in this scenario.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

And every time there are neighbours in DGames, one is town and one is scum. It's like a rule. MODs never just make Neghbours both town.

Pizza mafia. AM and Nabe.

Really? Props to the mod, in that case.

Uh...

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I hilariously considered the idea, but PB's not in the game so I don't think it'd be here.

But really though, I considered it but I'd be incredibly surprised if Gova straight ripped the role from my game. I think it could be an abductor with the plant flavor but I think it's just a regular abductor in this scenario.

When did you first consider it?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I didn't use that word. You're confused.

Unless you count his support for the PJB wagon D1, not that I recall? What other problems does it clear up? I don't understand how you targeting him clears things up with a confirmed NAR boost.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Uh...

My other head got it wrong, you were the mod and J was the townie.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

When did you first consider it?

About the same time we considered the possibility of him being an abductor and I looked at his flavor.

 

[Gova]

1. Nabe ()
2. BadWolf28738 ()
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse (K, Nabe, Sword)
6. JTB ()
8. Potassium (RR, Bw)
9. Sworddancer. ()
10. Red Ruy ()

Not voting: DH, JTB, AM,

With 8 playing it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Wednesday, June 26th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Unless you count his support for the PJB wagon D1, not that I recall? What other problems does it clear up? I don't understand how you targeting him clears things up with a confirmed NAR boost.

It explains why there was no NK, and half of why you've received no ability from Swords. That's not bad.

Could you check your N1 PM again to make sure the ability you got was called "rock"?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

It explains why there was no NK, and half of why you've received no ability from Swords. That's not bad.

Could you check your N1 PM again to make sure the ability you got was called "rock"?

But what about the other half?


"Rock Armor" in specific.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

But it wasn't called "Earth"?
Because your other abilities were named exactly after Water and Wind, weren't they?

(What about the other half? There's no explanation offered by anyone for that.)

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

EBWOP: And not necessarily. With a NAR boost, he could've beat out the Magnetize. Unless he hasted someone else, but I have no idea why a solo mafiat would haste anyone else in the situation he was in. And half of where Swords' protect went doesn't clear up anything.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

EBWOP: And not necessarily. With a NAR boost, he could've beat out the Magnetize. Unless he hasted someone else, but I have no idea why a solo mafiat would haste anyone else in the situation he was in. And half of where Swords' protect went doesn't clear up anything.

Why would hypothetical scumDH be able to self-haste? How OP would that be?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I am the element of earth, I can toggle someone and make all night actions against them take no effect. I toggled AM N1 and tried to toggle off him N2, but I haven't received word of whether or not it worked from the Mod.

Why does this not solve the problem of the missing Hastes?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Because he later clarified to say it was just night kills and did not affect other actions.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Why would hypothetical scumDH be able to self-haste? How OP would that be?

A scum with a self-haste would be a good answer to two claimed protectives, two claimed redirectives, and something causing the neighborhood to disappear, of their own volition or not.

 

[Kantrip]

Got ready quickly and I have a moment.

@AM: Why are you assuming anyone can use multiple actions at once? I refuse to believe a scumDH could self-Haste and then do something else. You had 3 abilities last Night, could you use multiple at once?

Also, your indy theory for me as an abductor doesn't clear up the Sword debacle last Night. I also never suggested DH was responsible for the Roleblock. I think that was the other one of Gheb/Foxy.

 

[Kantrip]

EBWOP: And not necessarily. With a NAR boost, he could've beat out the Magnetize. Unless he hasted someone else, but I have no idea why a solo mafiat would haste anyone else in the situation he was in. And half of where Swords' protect went doesn't clear up anything.

What I'm saying is he didn't Haste anyone because he sent in a kill instead. Where is the implication he can use multiple abilities at the same time?

 

[Kantrip]

Nabe magnetizes DH
DH tries to kill ______. Fails because different alignments

Sword tries to protect AM. Fails because of roleblock/redirect
Foxy/Gheb responsible for public message
Gheb/Foxy responsible for roleblock/redirect on Sword

Gheb and Foxy disappear from their passive after being hit by my kill

This clears up everything. No other theory comes even remotely close.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

A scum with a self-haste would be a good answer to two claimed protectives, two claimed redirectives, and something causing the neighborhood to disappear, of their own volition or not.

You've convinced me. Scum Haste is a necessary counter in the setup. :B

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

But it wasn't called "Earth"?
Because your other abilities were named exactly after Water and Wind, weren't they?

(What about the other half? There's no explanation offered by anyone for that.)

This is important.

 

[Kantrip]

But said scum could haste a mate sending in a kill, meaning it still counters all those things you listed.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

(Another possibility is that a hasted Sword's NK didn't kill AM, because BW's toggle was still on. DH's Haste would've been nullified by the Magnetize and Sword being mafia in this scenario, but AM's Haste would've gotten through.)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hold on a second, I'm falling behind.

 

[Kantrip]

(Another possibility is that a hasted Sword's NK didn't kill AM, because BW's toggle was still on. DH's Haste would've been nullified by the Magnetize and Sword being mafia in this scenario, but AM's Haste would've gotten through.)

Are you seriously considering this?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Hold on a second, I'm falling behind.

Rada.

Got ready quickly and I have a moment.

@AM: Why are you assuming anyone can use multiple actions at once? I refuse to believe a scumDH could self-Haste and then do something else. You had 3 abilities last Night, could you use multiple at once?

Also, your indy theory for me as an abductor doesn't clear up the Sword debacle last Night. I also never suggested DH was responsible for the Roleblock. I think that was the other one of Gheb/Foxy.

Hold on their buddy. I can only use one action--you're correct; however, your theory falls apart when you consider that everyone but you and Ruy have a discernible night action in this scenario. If this is the case, then your neighborhood both voluntarily left and roleblocked Swords, which is not possible because they'd be doing two actions simultaneously. So either you need to explain where your roleblock is coming from or concede that you have no reason to believe scum cannot use two actions at once.

 

[Kantrip]

Rada.



Hold on their buddy. I can only use one action--you're correct; however, your theory falls apart when you consider that everyone but you and Ruy have a discernible night action in this scenario. If this is the case, then your neighborhood both voluntarily left and roleblocked Swords, which is not possible because they'd be doing two actions simultaneously. So either you need to explain where your roleblock is coming from or concede that you have no reason to believe scum cannot use two actions at once.

They didn't voluntarily leave. I killed Gheb which triggered their passive that made them leave.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

But it wasn't called "Earth"?
Because your other abilities were named exactly after Water and Wind, weren't they?

Our water ability is not directly named "water" either. The three abilities we received were "Rock Armor", "Bubble Shield", and "Wind Walker".

(What about the other half? There's no explanation offered by anyone for that.)

That's exactly the point. No one is coming up with a solution for that. There is no definite answer. And yet everyone is willing to move forward regardless of it, which I cannot fault. As it stands, there are three factors that may possibly have some overlap that we do not know. Some form of independent, a mafiat, and a neighborhood. There is at least one scum left in the game at present, unless Gheb and Foxy are mafia and indy respectably, but I find that rather unlikely. Here are the things we do not have solid answers about:

1. The announced messages at the start of both day phases
2. Probably the most important, where the night kill went.
3. Probably the second most important, what happened with Swords and us?
4. Where did the Neighborhood go?
5. What does the neighborhood do outside of being a neighborhood? They have both claimed additional powers beyond a quicktopic.

I think the entire DH wagon falls apart when it fails to consider where Swords' protect went. It operates under the assumption that scumDH could not target Swords but it does not answer where the protect went. Kantrip suspects the Neighborhood did it but it does not explain why the neighborhood left in the event that they used their action to roleblock Sworddancer with no endgame to the decision (keep in mind the above post from us). As a result, I do not think DH is a good lynch.

 

[Kantrip]

Roleblock and public message are still coming from Gheb and Foxy, in some combination.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

They didn't voluntarily leave. I killed Gheb which triggered their passive that made them leave.

Is this confirmed?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

(Another possibility is that a hasted Sword's NK didn't kill AM, because BW's toggle was still on. DH's Haste would've been nullified by the Magnetize and Sword being mafia in this scenario, but AM's Haste would've gotten through.)

This is why I went through all of the painstaking appeals to BadWolf to make absolutely sure that we knew exactly how his ability worked. No, I do not think he ****ed it up through that. I would have died.

 

[Kantrip]

No, but I wasn't informed of my action failing for any reason. Like I said, indies typically have some sort of ability to keep them alive, like a 1-shot BP. A 1-shot "leave the game for a phase instead of being killed" (they're life-linked, something neighbours typically aren't) is effectively the same thing.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I highly doubt they are indy lovers that have a passive ability that prevents them losing their wincon. That's ********.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

vote: Kantrip

 

[Kantrip]

You doubt the indy lovers have a one-shot ability that protects them from death for one Night in a game with a mafia faction and a town kill? I think that seems personally reasonable and you're just being stubborn if you disagree.

 

[Kantrip]

You see, any theory that involves me as scum or indy falls short in explaining much of anything.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

You doubt the indy lovers have a one-shot ability that protects them from death for one Night in a game with a mafia faction and a town kill? I think that seems personally reasonable and you're just being stubborn if you disagree.

Are you dumb? Not only does it save them once but it also removes them from the game, which means they don't risk getting lynched. Now throw that in on top of the fact that your town kill is 50/50 RNG luck-based bull**** as well as 2 protects and 2 redirects. If they had that in this scenario, you may as well just not have a scum team because those are about the most ideal odds for an indy lovers team to exist in.

 

[Kantrip]

Are you dumb? Not only does it save them once but it also removes them from the game, which means they don't risk getting lynched. Now throw that in on top of the fact that your town kill is 50/50 RNG luck-based bull**** as well as 2 protects and 2 redirects. If they had that in this scenario, you may as well just not have a scum team because those are about the most ideal odds for an indy lovers team to exist in.

For ONE phase.

Good way to test this is to just wait and see what happens. Or, you know, you could make some tinfoil hat assumption that I'm a plant abductor and took BOTH of the NEIGHBOURS (why both at the same time, they are neighbours and not life-linked). Then you can lynch one of the towniest slots in the game over this whack-job theory just to be wrong and be back at square-one because you're still looking for the remaining mafia member (still going to be Dark Horse) and an indy that doesn't even have the ability you thought it had.

You're jumping the gun if you lynch me based on your theory, AND your theory doesn't even cover HALF the problems we're facing in the game. That's just ********!

Whatever though, I can't bicker with you any longer. I'm walking out the door as we speak.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

You see, any theory that involves me as scum or indy falls short in explaining much of anything.

You as indy abduct one of Foxy or Gheb, and end up grabbing both. This explains where the neighborhood went. The neighborhood probably got whatever roles they got off before then, which might be the answers to missing actions unaccounted for. Gheb could be the last mafia and his abduction stopped the NK, answering where the NK went. The only thing that it does not specifically answer is what happened to Swords' protect. But it damn well answers more than "DH is scum guys lolololololol."