Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[Kantrip]

Can you tell me why exactly your doubts are going away, and why you feel better about Swords? Thanks.

AM's content on this page has been good, Sword has been playing townie lately, their claims cement them as either scum together or not at all. I just wanted the answers that AM just gave me to put my mind at ease, and now I can't see either of the slots being scum.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Why do you think I'm being a tool? Also why would this matter at the time you said that I gave up red flags, as you did not know that I was neighbors with Gheb. (Maybe with someone, but you didn't know who)

Underlined, so does the rest of his play ToDay make up for this? I mean, with the rest of his play, how does this make you re-evaluate his original actions?

What're you even getting at here? I think you're a tool because you can't possibly come to these conclusions without eating whatever feeding Gheb's giving you. You're not refuting anything we're saying, you're just getting hung up on things that aren't relevant anymore. You're still pushing Swords without examining what we've said, you obviously think we're scummy enough to at least warrant investigation and therefore you're disregarding what we say. Which, we think, could easily be something Gheb wants you to do. Therefore, I think you're a tool.

With Ruy, obviously, seeing as we have him as town, we think that his actions both before and after the fact make up for it. There's no re-evaluation necessary. His play at the beginning of D2 was disgusting but it's not enough to make me air even the slightest at this moment towards putting him on a scumlist.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

AM's content on this page has been good, Sword has been playing townie lately, their claims cement them as either scum together or not at all. I just wanted the answers that AM just gave me to put my mind at ease, and now I can't see either of the slots being scum.

How so, wrt the underlined?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

As far as you go, I did not like the thought process leading into Sworddancer scum. I did not like you piggybacking Kantrip's thought process onto Sworddancer scum. The independent thoughts you added were, iirc, bad; however, that's not as big a deal when I take into account that it was probably a paranoia fed by Gheb's point of view where you reach in order to see the scenario the way you want it to be.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Hold up.

Hmm. We should mass-claim toMorrow. Things are weird.

That call was rock solid.

 

[Kantrip]

How so, wrt the underlined?

I've been over this. Sword claimed a protective of the water element and that he protected AM. AM confirmed it based on information he received from his role. Means Sword's claim is legit, and it means AM derailed the wagon by confirming it just to defend Sword instead. If that wasn't a planned 180 to get Sword off the chopping block, there's no reason for AM to do it. And I now do not believe whatsoever that that is the case, so they're both town.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Can you tell me why exactly your doubts are going away, and why you feel better about Swords? Thanks.

Jesus Christ, I have supplied multiple reasons why no one should be caught dead on a Sworddancer wagon. Either refute them, or stop bothering people. Do your end instead of asking others to supply you with some nitpick you can spin into something that fits your desire of how things play out.

 

[Kantrip]

That call was rock solid.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

What're you even getting at here? I think you're a tool because you can't possibly come to these conclusions without eating whatever feeding Gheb's giving you. You're not refuting anything we're saying, you're just getting hung up on things that aren't relevant anymore. You're still pushing Swords without examining what we've said, you obviously think we're scummy enough to at least warrant investigation and therefore you're disregarding what we say. Which, we think, could easily be something Gheb wants you to do. Therefore, I think you're a tool.

With Ruy, obviously, seeing as we have him as town, we think that his actions both before and after the fact make up for it. There's no re-evaluation necessary. His play at the beginning of D2 was disgusting but it's not enough to make me air even the slightest at this moment towards putting him on a scumlist.

>_> Gheb told me to ignore you because you just seem to be getting into the game more after not being it it. That's all he said. Yet I carried on anyways because I still didn't like how you were doing things. I tried to ignore you, but I can't let it go. Me pushing it without much of a case is me feeling like everyone saw what I saw, and therefore wouldn't need it and wouldn't want to put effort into a generally agreed upon stance. Yet now that it's getting to that juncture of people falling off of it, I will put that effort in. I also thought people have already seen me post why I disliked Swords and didn't feel the need in re-posting.

And ok on Ryu.

 

[Kantrip]

Learning about what Gheb has been saying to Foxy makes me want Gheb dead.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Jesus Christ, I have supplied multiple reasons why no one should be caught dead on a Sworddancer wagon. Either refute them, or stop bothering people. Do your end instead of asking others to supply you with some nitpick you can spin into something that fits your desire of how things play out.

Will you shush. You can't expect to let people just get off without elaborating. That was why I wanted him to go into it. I said I will.

 

[Kantrip]

Will you shush. You can't expect to let people just get off without elaborating. That was why I wanted him to go into it. I said I will.

Elaborating is so boring when I assume people are smart enough to deduce my reasoning.

Then again, I make that mistake a lot.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Why you disliked Swords is irrelevant. Kantrip's reasons for wanting him lynched were sufficient to warrant the wagon that he received. The thing you are repeatedly failing to examine is the new information that came to light post-claim. Unless you have a good reason to push that claim down despite another player backing it up as true, then there is no reason to lynch Sworddancer. What you have to show is why he should STILL be lynched. Why did he target us N1 with a protective ability? Does that ability make sense on a scum team with PJB's claimed ability? Alterntatively, is that really his ability or is AM lying to save him? Alternatively, does his ability and the way he used his ability not indicate townie motivations?

You need to go into those sets of questions to convince anyone to get on that wagon and you have to do it past me unless you go with the last one because it either implies that I am scum with him or it is a scenario you are trying to sell that I just won't buy.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

I think you would understand, though. It's like voting at the start of the game without reasoning. Wouldn't you ask that person why? (To make them back it up) And what if someone isn't smart enough... ;-;

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Also, thanks for the Gheb tidbit. That was actually very interesting. Now, I am going to go and eat something then collapse.

 

[JTB]

I skimmed the last 10 pages to get an idea of what's been going on this week, so I'll be reading in more detail in the morning. I'll get a full reads list up and everything.

Unvote

I voted Foxy because I was helping RR with his gambit, it was clearly obvious to me what he was doing so I just followed along. And to clear up me not voting at the end of yesterDay, that was because someone hammered early when I said I was held over at work and not be able to post until the night.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Leave it to AM to make a game that has very likely already been won by town a complicated cluster**** where people start to get ******** ideas like massclaiming toMorrow. Pretty sure AM is wrong on just about all accounts.

I'll write more later, including responses to Sworddancers, responses to AM and grilling bad points by AM too.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

>_> Gheb told me to ignore you because you just seem to be getting into the game more after not being it it. That's all he said. Yet I carried on anyways because I still didn't like how you were doing things. I tried to ignore you, but I can't let it go. Me pushing it without much of a case is me feeling like everyone saw what I saw, and therefore wouldn't need it and wouldn't want to put effort into a generally agreed upon stance. Yet now that it's getting to that juncture of people falling off of it, I will put that effort in. I also thought people have already seen me post why I disliked Swords and didn't feel the need in re-posting.

And ok on Ryu.

wat.

Ok but why did you full trust Gheb? What made him more of a town read?

Also what AM is saying about Swords is right, you nor Gheb really have taken his claim into account to any reasonable level. Could AM be screwing with us as town? Yeah, but it is probably given how they have acted?

Swords claimed a protective, ok scum probs want him dead. Does targetting AM make sense as a protective? Yes. Does it make sense as scum given what AM has told us? Not really.

Have you nor Rake even considered this?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

v/la toDay and tomorrow, due to tourny tomorrow and me wanting to get everything that I need to get done toDay so I can go to said tourny tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Noting that I'm here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hi Nabe, when I wake up, most likely hung over, I'll give you a brief summary.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Gheb, where did you go? =[

V/LA. Hosting a tourney tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I fell asleep reading this earlier today, true facts.
Laundry, do you have tips? Is a balanced breakfast important for not crashing mid-day? And if so, what should it be?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I fell asleep reading this earlier today, true facts.
Laundry, do you have tips? Is a balanced breakfast important for not crashing mid-day? And if so, what should it be?

Generally you want something small but something with a lot of weight to it, or so I've heard. Having stuff like bacon and eggs helps one out? I'm no expert on it. But in short, yeh, having a good breakfast is helpful. Milk, bacon, toast, and eggs sounds like something that'd work but I'm a red-blooded American who loves his fatty ****.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, can I get a readlist?

1. Nabe / Handorin - nullscum
2. Badwolf - nulltown
3. AM - nullnull
4. Dark Horse - town
6. JTB - scum
7. frozen - null
8. Kantrip - town
9. Sworddancer - scum
10. Red Ryu - nulltown
12. Foxy - town

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He gains an ability as well as a qt. His ability takes place on N1 but he didn't have to use it. If he knew he didn't have to use it, why would stuck-up Gheb do it? Why in the world, who considers everyone else to be tools, put his own overpriced hide at risk unnecessarily? There's something else at play they have not told us. You mark my words.

This is terrible. Disgusting. Like, I don't even know where to start commenting on how ******** this post is. Do I really have to spell out to you all the advantages of being able to communicate with another player privately through a mechanic that borderline confirms us as town to each other? There's a hundred of reasons to choose "ally" but only two or three to choose betray for a townie. If you think I'm that much of an ego monster that I'm unable to even make a logically correct decision then you must be confusing me with yourself, Mr. overpriced hide. You're not going to hold the fact that I made the right decision against me and point it out as a questionable move. Especially when there were people like Swiss or frozen around that I would've just loved to be able scheming moves with from behind the scenes.

Past that, he wanted to lynch Swords without a claim and got shut down. When Swords claim turned out to be one of the protectives who targeted us last night, he did not analyze rthat in the slightest. His MO has been to disregard that completely.

And you base such a laughable claim one what? Is it the same cold and unbiased logic that I used to ally my counterpart despite all the risk or is it you simply taking something for granted for no reason other than allegedly being targeted by Sworddancer? My modus operandi was to question Sworddancer's claim [legit], question its bearing on alignment [legit] and weigh off his scummy play against it [very legit].
You modus operandi is to assume his ability to be legit because he targeted you [OK], then conclude that he's likely town because of something with PJB [not legit] and continue to ignore that HIS PLAY WAS SCUMMY [abso****inglutely NOT legit].

I'm not disregarding facts. I simply acknowledge that from an objective, logical point of view that the facts speak more in favor of a Sword lynch than against it. You are the one who has been disregarding half of the facts completely.

I maintain that it's incredibly scummy that he comes in and professes to know PJB claimed God's honest truth. Then he refuses to take that into account when looking at Swords' claim, despite that being pointed out to him.

For an accusation that is supposed to be concrete you use a lot of vague and deictic terms.

I "refuse" to take what into account? That? What is "that"?
"...despite, "that" being pointed out to him." What that?

Are you sure you actually have anything to say or are you just going to make things up out of the thin air? I'm pretty sure you don't even have an idea what I actually was saying about PJB's claim - you just wanna hold something against me anyway.

I can see hitting ally. I can even see that weird argument between ran and rake being true. I cannot see Gheb as any alignment hitting ally when that decision was made.

That's because you don't know **** about me - and where your whole argument falls flat. Because you think you know my personality or anything about my decision making. You do not. Yet you base a good 50% of your points on the assumption that you do. You base points on the assumption that I cannot use simple logic. That's your flaw, not mine.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

JTB. The pick of the inactive litter. He's null because he legitimately has not done anything. It's a 100% shot in the dark. If I wanna lynch an inactive for being scummy, it would be Hando, Dark Horse, FrozenFlame.

Hando is only slightly better as he gave us opinions on D1 but Nabe is replacing him. I don't want to touch the slot. If you want to hit a slightly-null inactive, get JTB.

Dark Horse is the supporty background player. He has scummy instances but he also had a presence on the PJB wagon.

FF. Actually the scummiest inactive. His posts don;t give any substance sans his readlist. To his credit, he is probably the most contributing inactive outside of Dark Horse.

Terrible insight. This just tells me how little clue you have about how and where this game is going.

Hando, until he had IRL things to deal with was not even an inactive slot. His insight wasn't great and his reasoning often had people doubt him but he has not been inactive unless you wanna stretch that word into meaninglessness. If you think he's suspicious I'd even agree with you but lumping him with Frozen and Dark Horse shows that you haven't tried to read any of those slots and are jumpy noise as usual.
Dark Horse had scummy instances? Where? Stop ****ing pulling things out of your ass and actually do things. If he had scummy instances then it can't be too much asked to show us where and how it weighs more than JTB's scummy instances. He had presence on the PJB wagon and he also defended Kantrip's points on PJB on what might've been a Legolas chainsaw attack. It's definitely possible that he is a scumbag but right now I see absolutely no reason to assume he is. Not unless we see a Sworddancer town flip. But of all the inactice players Dark Horse is the least scummy by far.
Frozen is not the scummiest inactive. Frozen is a complete null slot with maybe 3 posts all game. That in itself is a problem and needs to be dealt with somehow but in no way has he been more suspicious than JTB has been [which is wonderfully mirrored by Sworddancer's inability to tailor a decent case on him].

Your insight is so baffingly off that I am left with no choice than to urge everybody else to ignore you until something happens that could hint at your reads being even remotely accurate. You label Handorin as an inactive slot but leave out Badwolf? You're trying to make us believe that frozen has actively been scummier than JTB? You more or less say that it makes no difference whether we lynch JTB or Dark Horse as both are supposedly complete shots in the dark? I don't see how any of your points can be taken serious.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

RE: Badwolf

He says some ridiculously scummy things but that could easily be just because he's bad. He's a complete crap shoot, but he can live for now because he's not dangerous. He will almost certainly be sorted out through further information or night phase events. Town enough to not be worth a lynch in any case.

OK, at least that and I can agree with it except the "some ridiculously scummy things" part. That's the trademark 0815 AM bullcrap that nobody should have to deal with.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm hardly telling Rake / Ran anything in the QT, just commenting on the things that I think are important. At the moment that boils down to ignoring AM as much as possible and trying to get Sworddancer lynched. There is hardly a doubt that he is a scumbag. JTB is the only alternative lynch for me right now. I do not agree that he is interchangeable with frozen in any way. JTB is scummy via scummy play and connections, frozen is just straight up and 100% null.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

1. Nabe / Handorin - nullscum
2. Badwolf - nulltown
3. AM - nullnull
4. Dark Horse - town
6. JTB - scum
7. frozen - null
8. Kantrip - town
9. Sworddancer - scum
10. Red Ryu - nulltown
12. Foxy - town

Ran, confirm?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

AM who do you actually want to lynch right now?

I'm not getting a clear direction from you with your question. You imply you want someone in the Gheb/Foxy situation, more so Gheb?, but I'm not getting a clear statement or idea of where you think town should go even with this questionnaire.

I do wonder with FF and JTB why FF is scummy whole JTB is a crap shoot when I agree with Gheb JTB has done worse while FF is more nullish. If he did do something scummy I don't see it with the lack of substance. When really this can easily apply to JTB who has done the same.

 

[Kantrip]

FF/Gheb or JTB/Sword seems to be the scumteam distinction here. There are other options being thrown out but these are the smartest choices. If there's an indy, Hando/Nabe is my pick for that.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm town for the record.
Pages 1-6 favour JTB/Sword.

 

[Kantrip]

Well, if you say so Nabey-baby.

No, no. That was weird.

Do you mean you favour that scumteam from those pages?

 

[JTB]

some reads before I sleep

hando/nabe - nullish/scum

dislike 114. felt like the post by PJB before that was scummy enough
to warrant a vote, but hando ignored it and after receiving flak from his post, he hops on the PJB wagon
on the next convienent post to blend in with the wagon.

I don't like 169 because 1) Kantrip/Foxy reads came out of nowhere
and 2) the amount of stretching needed to call them PJBs scummates before a flip makes me think he was baiting some sort of reaction that was never followed up on. I would
expect to see this sort of post from Badwolf, not from Hando.

236 and 237
are pointless questions and pushing people to bring up a 3 man scumteam just rubs me the wrong way.


303 should be brought up in lieu of D2. It sucks that Hando has already replaced out, but the amount of confidence he had in
RR/Kantrip being scummates with PJB pre-flip and the lack of doing anything about RR/Kantrip being scummates with PJB post-flip is really bad. I know I can't really push this further since Nabe is here, but I feel like it's an important
point to bring up wrt to connections to PJB.


badwolf

i dunno lol

ignoring everyones reads here, how has your read on gheb developed? you made it a point that you were going to focus on gheb
today, but you seem less confident about that now. what happened between those two posts?

586 is also terribly scummy as he wasn't active for a few pages, but the first thing he brings up is a mod error in voting.
looks like he's scoping out a wagon that could be possibly be forming that isn't PJB


aggressive mediation


the amount of drive AM had to lynch PJB, in spite of S&C/Gheb changint their reads, makes the slot town.



dark horse

play has been pretty generic, i dont see him sticking out too much and just following the general flow of town as far as i see. only thing that strikes me odd is that he hasn't brought up Hando toDay after his
440. hando waffling on a pjb read seems like the perfect opportunity to push him d2 after the scum flip, but DH has seem
to forgotten that completely and switched to swords. null/scum

frozenflame

scum

my feelings are about him are pretty much the same as my 817 and the lack of reads connected to PJBs flip in
1234 drives that point further



I'll get to the more active posters tomorrow, but for now I'll just throw down my vote on FF

Vote FF

 

[JTB]

get at my notepad formatting #swag

 

[Kantrip]

You just... called every inactive player scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I hate how you whack folks made the Sworddancer wagon fall apart soloely based on a meaningless claim

We only have one day left until deadline and none of you have offered a good reason on why Sworddancer is supposedly town. Can we please lynch JTB at least? And not some bull**** "wagon him until he claims"-kind of crap that you always do. Just straight up lynch him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We only have one day left until deadline and none of you have offered a good reason on why Sworddancer is supposedly town.

Nor has any one of you offered a good alternative solution either.

The only other push besides Sworddancer and JTB is Frozen but he is pushed by the two scummiest slots in the game and the way people pretend to have a reason to lynch him is laughable. Inactivity is the only reason to lynch him.