Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[~ Gheb ~]

If it weren't for his commitment on the PJB lynch yesterDay I'd bet my life on AM being traitor.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

hando waffling on a pjb read seems like the perfect opportunity to push him d2 after the scum flip, but DH has seem
to forgotten that completely and switched to swords.

Priorities, man.

Goddamnit guys this Swords wagon is falling apart just because of mod meta and apparent claims. We have one day left until deadline and at this point it's seems like it's going to be a no lynch and we'll be dealing with this exact same **** toMorrow

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

"Just because of mod meta."

Guys, there's a clear difference between set up speculation and something that just NOT very likely. We have confirmation that I did something that "protects" AM. The only justification for this that you guys can think of to keep me as scum is that my protect hampers AM's actions somehow, but come on, that's that really make sense with PJB's flip? It's NOT blind set up speculation when you have so much information revealed to you.

Gheb for all of your bolstering about how "FF is just a terrible wagon" you have yet to demonstrate why my points against him don't stand. Inactivity is not the sole reason for his lynch. In matter of fact, I'm going to remake the FF case for you, and I'm going to make it very short and sweet for you.

Simply put, every post FF has made this game has been made from a calculative mind set. FF has been thinking very careful about the words he puts into his posts. He want's to be seen as logical and helpful, and I know this because everything he says comes off as detached and neutral. He's just not genuinely "into it." He's more concerned with trying to be helpful than actually scumhunt and that my friend is why FF is scummy.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Now Gheb, tell me what's wrong with that reasoning.

Also, on another note, DH, what do you make of JTB moving onto FF?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

AM who do you actually want to lynch right now?

I'm not getting a clear direction from you with your question. You imply you want someone in the Gheb/Foxy situation, more so Gheb?, but I'm not getting a clear statement or idea of where you think town should go even with this questionnaire.

I do wonder with FF and JTB why FF is scummy whole JTB is a crap shoot when I agree with Gheb JTB has done worse while FF is more nullish. If he did do something scummy I don't see it with the lack of substance. When really this can easily apply to JTB who has done the same.

RR, remember how you said that you learned from Swiss that you should be reading into the wording of posts and not just what's said in the post? Do that with FF, and tell me he doesn't come off as fake.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Rereading his posts.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

FF/Gheb or JTB/Sword seems to be the scumteam distinction here. There are other options being thrown out but these are the smartest choices. If there's an indy, Hando/Nabe is my pick for that.

I would not jump the gun with a Gheb/FF connection. While I did say earlier that if FF is scum then Gheb pushing back two scum lynches would have been odd, I do not think that scum Gheb would play this way knowing that I would flip town. Perhaps he's trying some WIFOMie **** but if he's scum then surely he realizes how bad it would look for him on a Sword's town flip?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ryu! Who's scum?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You know I kinda see what you're saying Swords on a reread.

He does kinda feel detached and his reads, well really when I reads the posts Swords brought up FF isn't really making reads. He is sitting on a lot of players without really committing too much til his readlist way later.

You think this is better than JTB's posts?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu! Who's scum?

Hard to pin down right now.

Between Gheb and Foxy I'd bet more money on Gheb being scum, his actions make less sense than Foxy's. If Foxy is scum I'd look right at Gheb. If Gheb was scum I wouldn't look right at Foxy. The connection once makes sense in one perspective, Foxy blind trust makes far more sense as a mate.

Then I'm looking at AM and Swords, I'm not interested in what has been looked at here. Them semi confirming each other really only makes sense if they were mates or AM was trying to snag town cred. I don't think Sword's play was good on D1, Gheb is right there. Gheb's insistence that we should ignore his claim is kinda whack since we can find out over time if Swords is really full of crap or not.

Gheb's posts though, he has a reason and I can see a mindset that follows the play over claim mentality, but he could also be trying to force a ML as scum on the doc.

Badwolf is a crap shoot, but I would still lynch it.

I'm not a fan of how JTB is posting, even his reads above. He's commenting a lot on PJB which

FF I'm seeing more in context with a reread where Swords and AM are coming from. He has more of a detached sense with his posts.

JTB while inactive due to irl stuff, I still think isn't sitting well with me with his play, even more so when I know this is what he tries to do as scum, Megaman X, OS Allstars, to get into endgame. FF I'm seeing a little better on why he is being pushed, it does make sense from Swords perspective.

Hessitant on Ghebscum, but would rather lynch JTB/FF right now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote: FF

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vig whatever reason you had to not shot better be fixed tonight with Badwolf, whoever doesn't die between FF/JTB. I'm dead serious you shoot one of those two or I will refuse to believe any vig claims past that night phase if either do not die.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ok so here is the lowdown Nabe.

I went herpa derpa with Swiss/Adumb hydra trying to argue to for town leader, Foxy made some commenting posts on that.

Everyone mass wagoned PJB to read him under pressure, he didn't react well. So the wagon kept going while town kept pressing him for reads. PJB made some telling interactions, as well as others did on him. Then PJB gets around to posting a readlist, his list sucks, has the entire game as a null read at worst. We press him on this, eventually the wagon is split on lynching him or Sworddancer.

Lynch goes through.

PJB flips Mafia Void.

Swiss/Adumb hydra dies during the night flips fire element.

I fake a tracker guilty on Ran/Rake hydra because I didn't trust them after the night phase and push them to give what they can reads wise. They crumb something that leads to them being masons or neighbors.

We push swords to claim, he claims Water element and he is a doctor of sorts. Ryker/Washed hydra confirm that Swords did target them during N1.

Ryker/Washed direct expose Gheb as Ran/Rake's neighbor, they have a weird mechanic around it and also got something during the night power wise.

Gheb's been pushing Ran and Rake to ignore AM and lynch Swords off his D1 play and ignore the claim.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: FF

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

You think this is better than JTB's posts?

Absolutely not. JTB's posts are stereotypical examples fake scumhunting. Even his last post reeks of opportunism. However that doesn't stop the fact that I think FF's content reads fake and thus very directly scummy.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb for all of your bolstering about how "FF is just a terrible wagon" ....

Where did I say this?

Vote JTB

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ryu, switch to JTB.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

gonna be vla, going to hospital to check out my right jaw or w/e the **** it is that makes it hard for me to chew. Get sudden pains.

also jtb is a compromise I can do. Would rather do Swords.

Unvote Vote: JTB

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@mod request votecount

Also, on another note, DH, what do you make of JTB moving onto FF?

Horrible. His reasoning is shoddy at best and his arguments are very poorly researched(He calls FF out because he was "trying to support his PJB lynch," despite the fact that he was trying to focus on the inactives? Saying that it's scummy that he mentioned Gheb? Seriously?). I can see where the hate is coming from.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu, switch to JTB.

waiting for votecount first.

 

[Kantrip]

Should we get JTB and FF to both claim?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'd say so.

 

[Gova]

1. Nabe ()
2. BadWolf28738 ()
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse ()
5. Gheb_01 ()
6. JTB (Gheb, Foxy)
7. frozenflame751 (SWord, JTB, RR, Nabe)
8. Potassium (),
9. Sworddancer. (DH, BW)
10. Red Ruy ()
12. Foxy the Silver Fox()

Not voting: AM, FF, AM, K

With 11 playing it takes 6 lynch!

Deadline is Monday, June 10th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Unvote, Vote: JTB

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Should we get JTB and FF to both claim?

No wtf, neither will claim.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sworddancer, JTB and Handonabe are the ones voting for FF - 3 of the scummiest slots around. It just seems so obvious that scum wants that lynch to happen ...

 

[Kantrip]

Nabe voted FF because Ruy did, and JTB isn't going to vote for himself. Sword's play in D1 is scummy, but it's improved and AM has confirmed he used a protective water ability on him. I like that wagon a lot more than the one with you on it right now. You've got your scummy *** and your personal sheep.

Why would we push a lynch without a claim? They could have a Night action that explains things later in the game, and we won't know anything about what their role does from their flip.

FF, claim please.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Kantrip, what do you think of JTB's FF vote

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No wtf, neither will claim.

Fos Gheb

 

[Kantrip]

I think the lynch is between the two of them and JTB isn't gonna lynch himself. It's self-preservational for sure, but I would say that's a null tell in this situation.

I hate both of those slots though, and if we could lynch them both at once that would be a big help to getting reads on the more active slots I'm questioning.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Commit Suicide

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I hate both of those slots though, and if we could lynch them both at once that would be a big help to getting reads on the more active slots I'm questioning.

I feel ya.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Gheb:

Nor has any one of you offered a good alternative solution either.

The only other push besides Sworddancer and JTB is Frozen but he is pushed by the two scummiest slots in the game and the way people pretend to have a reason to lynch him is laughable. Inactivity is the only reason to lynch him.

In the bolded.

You never said the exact words "FF is a terrible lynch" but you've made it quite clear here and other places that you don't like the wagon. You even called the reasoning people have against him (where by people I really mean me because I'm the only one who has made the case against FF) "laughable." What's "laughable" about it? You think FF is null, correct? Why doesn't my case stand up to you? Is it just that you think I'm scummy? If so, then pretend my case is coming from your top town read. In that case, do you still dislike the case and why?

 

[Kantrip]

Seriously, both of these slots are dead-weight inactives who have made bad posts. I don't see how JTB can be "actually scummy" while FF is "dead null."

Gheb, please explain JTB's scumminess. Convince me he's the better lynch.

 

[Kantrip]

If it weren't for his commitment on the PJB lynch yesterDay I'd bet my life on AM being traitor.

Also elaborate. Why traitor if you don't think he's connected to PJB? What's the connection here?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Ugh, don't really want to catch up. It's been such a long week.

However, I am now a high school grad. Woo to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

you've made it quite clear here and other places that you don't like the wagon.

Where?

You even called the reasoning people have against him (where by people I really mean me because I'm the only one who has made the case against FF) "laughable." What's "laughable" about it?

It's laughable that they pretend to have a case on him to begin with. I guess you are excluded from this. Lynching frozen is a 100% shot in the dark and everybody who says otherwise has an incredible amount of explaining to do - more than he will be able to actually provide [or else we would've heard all these great explanations by now].

You think FF is null, correct? Why doesn't my case stand up to you? Is it just that you think I'm scummy? If so, then pretend my case is coming from your top town read. In that case, do you still dislike the case and why?

1.) Yes, of course I think he is null. If your read on him isn't null then you're either completely misguided or have information that other people don't. He has virtually said nothing that can be contextualized and interpreted.
2.) I don't acknowledge your case. It doesn't tell my why frozen is scummy, simple as that.
3.) You being scum doesn't make the case worthless. It's actually the other way round - it's the fact that your case is worthless in my eyes that adds to your scuminess.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, please explain JTB's scumminess. Convince me he's the better lynch.

1.) JTB voted nobody by the end of Day 1, despite supporting and joining the PJB wagon. No reason for his jump on, nor his jump off. Textbook distancing.
2.) Frozen didn't vote anybody either but he had less posts than JTB and was less connected to the game. IIRC frozen has made 2 posts Day 1 and one of them was him basically johning about his inactivity. He did not really pretend to support the PJB wagon and just straight-up didn't get to do anything. JTB got to hop on the PJB wagon, hop off it and make a couple of points against frozen.
3.) Frozen has zero connections. The only thing you will learn from a town flip of frozen is that Sworddancer is likely scum [already the case], JTB is likely scum [already the case], Handonabe is a very questionable slot [already the case] and that Ryu has not been doing himself any favors toDay [already the case]. Frozen's town flip will give us literally nothing.
4.) If you're lucky, frozen is gonna flip scum. The probability for that to happen is the same as any other random pick from a pool of 11 players though.
5.) JTB has incriminating connections to PJB. Generally, there are noticeable interconnections between PJB, JTB and Sworddancer.
6.) JTB pushes a FF lynch. THIS DIRECTLY BENEFITS JTB + Sworddancer scumteam and a decent reason has not been provided as to why he pushes the FF lynch.
7.) Sworddancer pushes a FF lynch. He has assured us that JTB is no better than frozen but he keeps on sitting on frozen's case all Day. THIS DIRECTLY BENEFITS JTB + Sworddancer scumteam and the reason for why he prefers the FF lynch over JTB has found a lot of critizism and has found little agreement.
8.) Handonabe pushes a FF lynch. Very questionable slot, provided no reason to join, has 0 reason to be trusted, is arguably just as much deadweight as frozen / JTB and got a virtually worthless wagon rolling. The wagon is terrible and I'm baffled by the fact that Kantrip and Ryu utterly fail at spotting it. TownSworddancer would've too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also elaborate. Why traitor if you don't think he's connected to PJB? What's the connection here?

Because all he has done toDay is making a lot of noise over nothing, derail discussion, fish information and nudge town into the wrong direction by providing questionable input. And let's not forget that he hasn't voted anybody and hasn't gotten **** done. That's the same slot who has constantly nudged DH to throw down his vote btw. His individual play is so disgustingly anti-town that he is literally too scummy to be scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Anybody who thinks frozen is the scummiest slot in the game is illiterate or full of bull****.