Eldiran's PSAs 'n' Stuff: Newest - Zero 1.4

[Unknownlight]

This character...is so awesome. I think it's now one of my secondaries in friendly matches.=D

 

[Eldiran]

Some notes that are more worthwhile: It seems like Wisp's appearance might end up being a tad too mindgamey for VS play. Also, the tornado automatically stops any momentum from any knockback if it's going on, making Wisp weird if not broken in team battles and FFAs. Plus, you can trap people under lava on Norfair and Brinstar by just leaving it open. ...and just hope you aren't forced to recover with PK Thunder against her.

Do you mean because Wisp is hard to see?

As for the tornado... that is rather worrisome. I reaally don't want to change the move, but that makes me very uneasy. At least, the trapping foes under lava bit does. At least the startup makes it a matter of timing in most circumstances...

Thankfully, Wisp can't stop his ally's momentum in team battles; the wind doesn't touch them. Unless it's got Team Attack on. But even then, the timing would cause problems I hope? Maybe?

And, hehe, yes. Facing Wisp must be a nightmare for the Earthbound children. That's fine with me.

Wisp seems to freeze in place whenever I use the third charge of side-B. Also, the electricity hitboxes from a fully-charged side-B in the standing animation make for the king of all jab locks.
Up-B can also lock people on the floor of Port Town as well as in the mouth of the Ultimate Chimera (999% in five seconds).

Fun pastime: destroying all the blocks in Green Greens and Skyworld at once with down-B.
Another fun pastime: nair-chaining King Dedede off the stage. Where's your shieldgrab now, *****?

Freeze in place? Do you mean how he pauses for a moment, even in the air? I believe there's 40-some frames during the attack in which he can't move. Is there something else happening?

Woops, I hope it's not an infinite. If I recall you can pass through Wisp if you DI. Is it an infinite?

I approve of those fun pastimes :D

Thank you very much for bringing these things to my attention by the way. These are the kinds of things I need to hear.

I has a question, though! Is it possible to make it apply to one of Jiggs' alt colors, instead of the whole character?

That is something that is in the works by... someone. I don't know who. But, for now Wisp replaces all of Jiggs, unfortunately.

Oh gawd, it's totally broken in Target Smash. Down-B immediately at the start = insta-success. XD Finished all levels in less than 2 seconds.

Pfgfk I didn't think of that. Heheh, I guess I can live with it. Thanks for the feedback!

This is absolutely beautiful. Eldirain=BEST PSA CODER EVAR!

Thanks! :D

It is. But really, unfairly good. Top tier for sure.

May I ask why you say so? I'm very interested in making it a fair character. I was aiming more for middle tier. Let me know if you think there are any balance issues.

Moveset - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA0sFht7I0g&fmt=18

Really crappy match between me and a CPU - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeZ7dQSGmnA&fmt=18

Thank you! I'm going to add those to the front post if you don't mind.

will any new move upgrades come up for this awesome character?Also will you make more ultimate project Smash Attack hacks as great as this one!?

Only if any of them need to be fixed. As for the latter, I can try. :D

I actually started making one of these the moment I figured out the invisibility factor, although I'm using Kirby - he has a lot more special effects available for use! But I don't think it's really a topic-worthy idea (no offense, it's really good, but I don't think it would be seriously considered as a candidate for an added character). Put it on the PSA character submission thread, please.

Although by unique, I mean like, 3 other people had the same idea but you're the only one who really did anything publicly with it.

When I was making this I was actually very worried someone else would post up the same thing before I had finished. I'm not surprised other people thought of it. It's a good idea.

And don't worry, I also linked it on the PSA thread.

Thanks again for all the compliments people! It's very encouraging to hear how many people enjoy it.

EDIT:

How come his back throw throws them forward?

Because that makes his throw even less versatile, in spite of its range. Also, I thought it looked cool.

 

[PKNintendo]

OP you are a genious. I don't care what anyone says, if you posted this in the character submission boards, nobody would see it.

The amount of work that went in is phenomenal!

 

[superyoshi888]

I don't get on the Smash Boards for like a day and this happens while I'm gone. O.o

I must say, wonderful job on the character. Probably the best one I've seen yet.

 

[money113]

I enjoy this alot. Some may say it's considered broken, it definitely dominates in FFAs, but I think it's still below MK, in both vB and B+. Final Smash is good. It's a little to weird to play with competitively and also: What's the difference between what element you are?

 

[MaxThunder]

this is definately the reason we need a psa character board...

 

[jalued]

this is definately the reason we need a psa character board...

once we get a clone engine completed, hell yeah that is needed lol. maybe someday characters like this will be accepted into the main board for b+ characters

 

[GHNeko]

once we get a clone engine completed, hell yeah that is needed lol. maybe someday characters like this will be accepted into the main board for b+ characters

Not happening.


<3

</dreamcrusher>

 

[Sails]

Not happening.


<3

</dreamcrusher>

Yeah seriously, I don't understand why people think it is ever going to happen. It's not happening. Ever. Stop dreaming people...

 

[MrsSaturnandWatch]

Very fun to play as! : D
Love the noise is makes when it(?) jumps

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

Yeah seriously, I don't understand why people think it is ever going to happen. It's not happening. Ever. Stop dreaming people...

If I remember correctly back before PSA existed, like, people wanted Roy to be an official B+ character.

Which was a secondary goal.

 

[GHNeko]

Not a secondary goal of WBR. >_>

 

[Sails]

Not a secondary goal of WBR. >_>

^ This. WBR has already said it's not happening.

 

[Anth0ny]

HOLY ISH.

THIS IS AMAZING.

Wow. Good stuff.

 

[leafbarrett]

Holy... that's incredible.
Oh, and I discovered something odd. Wisp T-poses after her side-B and neutral-B, you just can't tell because there's no body. Doesn't affect gameplay either. The only way I know is because Wisp stops moving (the bouncing animation stops).

 

[Naucitos]

Got linked to this just now, immediately thought "Secret of mana? WHERE!?"
Nice job making due with the current restrictions on PSA, and clever use of the graphic effects to make the characters 'body'
Its similar, but dissapointingly not helpful in the x i wanted to make later, i was hoping to use taunts to change weapons, it seems i've been beaten to it

If i get time ill try to tweak this for brawl+ and get back to you on it, its very well done

 

[hotdogturtle]

Holy... that's incredible.
Oh, and I discovered something odd. Wisp T-poses after her side-B and neutral-B, you just can't tell because there's no body. Doesn't affect gameplay either. The only way I know is because Wisp stops moving (the bouncing animation stops).

The first time I was testing Wisp in training mode, I ended up getting a weird freeze after using side-B where I couldn't do anything except more side-Bs. I couldn't jump, move, shield, attack, or do anything else, but I could continue doing side-B in either direction as much as I wanted. After unfreezing myself by getting attacked it kept happening each time I used side-B again. I quit back to the main menu and started a new training mode and it didn't happen again in any training mode or any of the Vs. matches I played.

Long story short it only happened once and never again.

 

[cAm8ooo]

WOW! Coolest character to date. I love the Side b, up b and taunt ideas, amazing. He is quite fun to play and i can see the possibility for a lot of cool things to be done.

I would love to see a character like this in the official brawl+ builds once Almas finishes his clone engine (is he still working on it?) but i understand the problems that can arise and the WBR's stance on the issue. I just think it would be a great way to bring even more people into playing brawl+.

Regardless, im anxious to see what the future has in hold for things like this.

You sir have won the internet.



PS: 1000th post!!!!

 

[tsunami70875]

...wow
greeaat job

 

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Now we just need a victory theme for wisp. May I recommend something "cosmic-like"? Maybe something along the lines of this:

http://nik.benzinestudios.com/Razni/rostestadsr.mp3
(NOT MADE BY ME - Source)

EDIT: if anyone wants to use the above linked song, I've converted it to BRSTM here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wgz20zvzgmu

The only issue is that it's gonna change the victory theme for all the other pokemon characters as well...

 

[Me_Aludes]

This.
Seems.
Hilarious.

Gonna try it ASAP, great job.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

how exactly did you replace the character with a ball of energy?

 

[Skadorski]

Can you make Videos for people that don't have their Wii hacked?
:V I just saw that post sorry >.>
Also- Make sure Pivit grab works.

Ok this is from looking at the moves and that CPU match with that ganon ONLY but heres what I see:

Moves I see are fine: Fair Bair Nair Bthrow Fthrow Pummel FirstJumps
Undecided: Dair Dthrow Uthrow DownB NeutralB SideB Fsmash Usmash Dsmash
Moves that need to be nerfed BADLY!!!!: Uair Utilt UpB FinalJumps
Moves that need to be better: Dtilt Ftilt

Dtilt and Ftilt need to be better defensive options.
Uair Utilt do way too much damage.
UpB should either: Take longer to charge or/and be weaker.
The first Jumps of Wisp are fine, since this is a mostly Aerial based character from what I see, but the last jumps are just way too good.


And remember I have not played as Wisp but I have seen many of the moves closely

 

[Shadic]

how exactly did you replace the character with a ball of energy?

Invisible with constant graphic effects?

 

[homsar]

Can you make Videos for people that don't have their Wii hacked?
:V I just saw that post sorry >.>
Also- Make sure Pivit grab works.

Ok this is from looking at the moves and that CPU match with that ganon ONLY but heres what I see:

Moves I see are fine: Fair Bair Nair Bthrow Fthrow Pummel FirstJumps
Undecided: Dair Dthrow Uthrow DownB NeutralB SideB Fsmash Usmash Dsmash
Moves that need to be nerfed BADLY!!!!: Uair Utilt UpB FinalJumps
Moves that need to be better: Dtilt Ftilt

Dtilt and Ftilt need to be better defensive options.
Uair Utilt do way too much damage.
UpB should either: Take longer to charge or/and be weaker.
The first Jumps of Wisp are fine, since this is a mostly Aerial based character from what I see, but the last jumps are just way too good.


And remember I have not played as Wisp but I have seen many of the moves closely

Keep in mind that that match is with B+ 5.0 and Wisp was designed around vBrawl and BBrawl. Some tweaks will need to be made for B+ play.

Also, Ill get some more matchs up tonight if my sister is up for a round or two.

 

[Eldiran]

Holy... that's incredible.
Oh, and I discovered something odd. Wisp T-poses after her side-B and neutral-B, you just can't tell because there's no body. Doesn't affect gameplay either. The only way I know is because Wisp stops moving (the bouncing animation stops).

Very perceptive. I suspect this might, somehow, be responsible for the Side+B glitches I keep hearing about. I'm going to see if I can resolve it.

The first time I was testing Wisp in training mode, I ended up getting a weird freeze after using side-B where I couldn't do anything except more side-Bs. I couldn't jump, move, shield, attack, or do anything else, but I could continue doing side-B in either direction as much as I wanted. After unfreezing myself by getting attacked it kept happening each time I used side-B again. I quit back to the main menu and started a new training mode and it didn't happen again in any training mode or any of the Vs. matches I played.

Long story short it only happened once and never again.

That's good it never happened again. Though I've been getting many reports of the same thing, which worries me.

Also- Make sure Pivit grab works.

Ok this is from looking at the moves and that CPU match with that ganon ONLY but heres what I see:

Moves I see are fine: Fair Bair Nair Bthrow Fthrow Pummel FirstJumps
Undecided: Dair Dthrow Uthrow DownB NeutralB SideB Fsmash Usmash Dsmash
Moves that need to be nerfed BADLY!!!!: Uair Utilt UpB FinalJumps
Moves that need to be better: Dtilt Ftilt

Dtilt and Ftilt need to be better defensive options.
Uair Utilt do way too much damage.
UpB should either: Take longer to charge or/and be weaker.
The first Jumps of Wisp are fine, since this is a mostly Aerial based character from what I see, but the last jumps are just way too good.

And remember I have not played as Wisp but I have seen many of the moves closely

No worries, I've made a pivot grab. It is, in fact, identical to the normal grab.

I think you will want to try the character out before analyzing its attacks. The visual effects can be misleading, particularly because it's difficult to see the windup. The only bit of your analysis I might agree with would be about the Up+B, but only because of its potential to trap foes within stage hazards.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Just got done playing around with it a bit. Dair is amazing. The workings of Side-B are amazing. Tornado and Earthquake are underwhelming, but cool. Utilt is a nice out of shield option since it can't shield grab those that are close.

I am worried about its ability to stall with all those jumps and the ability to be invisible like... half the time though. It can also be very disorienting as to where its hurtbox is. YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE REAL SHIELD AT ALL TIMES, I can't stress that enough since hitting shields is risky in this game.

 

[leafbarrett]

Almost forgot. I gotta thank you for using the earthquake graphic. I REALLY needed that. ^^

 

[jokey665]

I played a bunch of matches with this and had no issues with the t-stance. I did, however, have some of the most fun I've had playing Brawl (Or Brawl+, as the case happened to be).

Basically, you rock for making this.

 

[Adapt]

My thoughts on the vBRAWL Wisp

Tilts:

- jab seems to be the only fast ground attack. all other tilts seem to take time. Jab sets up for all sorts of things. but none of them do large amounts of damage, I approve.
- dtilt looks good. I would suggest making it faster and weaker though
- ftilt takes from getting used to, but I like it. the only worry i have is that fast characters may be able to punish you for hitting them with this move at low percentages. (not good at all!)
- utilt: lower its damage a bit maybe? otherwise fine. I see no reason to use up-smash with this move around.

Aerials:

- fair and bair need to have the graphics match the hitbox... it is too annoying to see stars hit the character and the move miss
- dair ftw! I love this move. My fav of the moveset
- nair needs a bigger hitbox (reason below in general section)
- uair hits in front horizontally, but not in back... is this intentional?


Smashes:

- upsmash nees some horizontal hitboxes... right now it it next to useless.
- dsmash is also rather useless...
- fsmash is perfectly balanced imo


Specials:

- up-b kills the mother boys, but you already know that
- neutral B looks like my fav special atm... its a bit hard to hit with, but one you do, there are all sorts of things that follow up, and it does quite good damage.
- down-B takes too long to setup... There isn't a character in the game that can't punish you before you can get this move off.
- side-B is great... maybe you could lengthen the time you have to hold B before you do the secondary attack? I find myself doing the powerful attack by mistake when i have it charged.

Throws:

- other that OoS... grab is awesome. its good once you get used to it. it combo's from a jab-trip perfectly.
- bthrow is odd... I would prefer to have something that throws backwards...
- d, u, f -throw... same as Jiggs.... all good.

General:
- shield needs to be visible
- wisp has no good approaches that can't be owned... especially by a sword character.
- wisp's hurtbox seems large compared to its body...
- wisp could use a proper OoS option... grab is useless in this case, so we need something else. Nair is what I would suggest. maybe enlarge the hitbox so you don't have to be on top of someone to hit them.



I know I made a lot of suggestions here. I would like to point out that these are my opinions and I don't expect you to follow any of them. However I believe that if you did implement some of them you would have a better character.

Right now I feel Wisp is low tier, not mid-tier like you want.

 

[VietGeek]

Well Wisp was certainly...interesting to play in B+. So...shiny. o_o ****'s amazing

also yeah, going invisible and stuff for dodges, rolls and stuffs plus the overall difficulty of seeing it...as well as the fact that Wisp doesn't really have any visible hitboxes...makes it kinda difficult to consider it a legit character.

It is kinda fun though, there's a bug report:

If you land Falcon's FS on...it, the game will freeze. I don't know what kind of animation they go into since I haven't played with items in a good long time, but it may be because of T stance?

Also its FS is like the ultimate edgeguard. Since it suctions in at such a maddening pace, it literally can stagespike people at BEYOND SHUTTLE LOOP SPEEDS. =V

 

[Adapt]

Oh btw... Here's another game against a CPU to showcase some of the moves with a person playing:

Add this to the first post somewhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DLkT2qpOU

I will try to convince my brother to play later tonight so I can try and show wisp off better.


You might have to wait a bit to watch it because I just uploaded it.

 

[bobson]

Do you mean because Wisp is hard to see?

That, and because she's always got the same pose. It's hard to tell what she's doing at all, although it may be just because she's new.

Freeze in place? Do you mean how he pauses for a moment, even in the air? I believe there's 40-some frames during the attack in which he can't move. Is there something else happening?

I mean freezing her in place permanently (or semi-permanently; she seems to break out of it naturally after a few minutes) until she gets hit. So far it happens almost every time I use the third charge while on the ground, but sometimes it inexplicably doesn't happen.

Woops, I hope it's not an infinite. If I recall you can pass through Wisp if you DI. Is it an infinite?

Not sure; you should be able to SDI out of it, but Wisp might be able to run fast enough to catch up to you before you're out. And of course she can always continue it with a jab or side-B if she needs.

 

[MK26]

If you land Falcon's FS on...it, the game will freeze. I don't know what kind of animation they go into since I haven't played with items in a good long time, but it may be because of T stance?

i thought everybody knew that that was the fault of brawl+...

Also, isnt wisp like super broken against the mother boys? like, since her grab range is so far, cant she just auto-regrab upon a grab release (at least in vbrawl)? And afaik they cant jump escape because wisp is too close to the ground...

 

[Fool's Gil]

Found a glitch. If you play Subspace and you go into one of the barrels in Jungle, you'll briefly turn back to Jigglypuff. When you recover, you go back to Wisp.

 

[Eldiran]

I am worried about its ability to stall with all those jumps and the ability to be invisible like... half the time though. It can also be very disorienting as to where its hurtbox is. YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE REAL SHIELD AT ALL TIMES, I can't stress that enough since hitting shields is risky in this game.

I may tinker with the size of the graphic to make it match the hurtbox better. It seems better to have the graphic size on the conservative side, however, so instead of opponents going, "what! How did I miss?!?" you have the Wisp user saying "I can't believe that hit me".

Also -- I'm afraid I can't make the 'real' shield visible at all. Wisp will never be able to tell when his shield is about to break. Or do you mean, I should make the fake shield graphic larger and more visible?

My thoughts on the vBRAWL Wisp

Thank you for evaluating Wisp. I appreciate your input.

Regarding Utilt -- I find it to be adequate, since enemies are still able to DI out of it if they're on the edge. As well, they have to be very close to get in it in the first place.

Upsmash should have the advantage of slightly higher reach, and being able to actually KO. But let me know if up tilt still seems to be too much.

Bair has been difficult to work with, due to the Reverse Direction command messing things up. I will try to clean that up. Uair should hit equally on both sides -- the bias is a side effect of bones moving around unexpectedly. I'll try an' fix that. I will also consider your suggestion for nair.

Did you try catching people in the charge animation of Down-smash? You might find it to be a very nice move then.

Down B will likely only see any hits in very rare circumstances (or FFAs). However, it is a good way to impel your opponent to approach you. If for example, a Falco is spamming lasers at you from the other side of FD, you can begin a Down+B. The lasers will simply sail overhead. You won't hit Falco, but you can be done the first charge by the time he draws near.

Side B is currently unable to do weaker attacks when it has charges. I'm not sure I could change that with the way it's set up.

Low tier I can live with :D

That, and because she's always got the same pose. It's hard to tell what she's doing at all, although it may be just because she's new.

I understand. Wisp will always be very hard to read and follow. Consider it an advantage for her, I suppose.

I mean freezing her in place permanently (or semi-permanently; she seems to break out of it naturally after a few minutes) until she gets hit. So far it happens almost every time I use the third charge while on the ground, but sometimes it inexplicably doesn't happen.

I think this is related to how Wisp went into T-stance with those attacks. I fiddled a bit and now I've removed all T-stances, so the problem ought to be solved.

I wasn't able to replicate and crashes or wierd noises, but I did find that Wisp could not move left or right after using the 3rd Side-B in the air. That has been fixed. I'll post up a changed version once I've finished with everything else.

Not sure; you should be able to SDI out of it, but Wisp might be able to run fast enough to catch up to you before you're out. And of course she can always continue it with a jab if she needs.

Hmmm. I'm not sure if that sounds like a problem that needs a change, but I am thinking about increasing the knockback the tiniest bit and changing the angle to 45 degrees instead of just straight out. Do you think that would fix it?

i thought everybody knew that that was the fault of brawl+...

Also, isnt wisp like super broken against the mother boys? like, since her grab range is so far, cant she just auto-regrab upon a grab release (at least in vbrawl)? And afaik they cant jump escape because wisp is too close to the ground...

Whew, good to hear Falcon's okay. Falcon's Final Smash works on Wisp for me too.

About Ness and Lucas... I'm not sure. I haven't been able to pull it off, but I have been using BBrawl lately, so... if anyone could verify it for me, I would much appreciate it.

EDIT: @Fool's Gil: Thank you for the bug report. If I can fix that, I will, but I suspect it refers to a state I can't modify. (Some subactions refuse to execute the code placed on them.)

EDIT2: @NintendoManiac64: The link doesn't work for me

EDIT3: Thanks for the video Adapt! Vids have been added to the first post.

Also apparently Imageshack sometimes won't display images... if you don't see one of the images, it should fix itself within an hour. (More like Imagesuck. <.< )

 

[rinoH]

dude good stuff man

 

[Adapt]

Comments in Orange... with some updates due to me playing for another hour or so.

I may tinker with the size of the graphic to make it match the hurtbox better. It seems better to have the graphic size on the conservative side, however, so instead of opponents going, "what! How did I miss?!?" you have the Wisp user saying "I can't believe that hit me".

The main problem is when you are moving (especially in the air). The way the graphic works makes you look quite tiny. It's very decieving.
The size seems ok while stationary


Also -- I'm afraid I can't make the 'real' shield visible at all. Wisp will never be able to tell when his shield is about to break. Or do you mean, I should make the fake shield graphic larger and more visible?

that sucks... I can tell the shield is quite big usually, but no idea when it will die.


Thank you for evaluating Wisp. I appreciate your input.

Regarding Utilt -- I find it to be adequate, since enemies are still able to DI out of it if they're on the edge. As well, they have to be very close to get in it in the first place.

After playing more... I think this is ok

Upsmash should have the advantage of slightly higher reach, and being able to actually KO. But let me know if up tilt still seems to be too much.

The extra reach is negligable... however, I agree that the fact that up-smash is Wisp's best kill move makes this move usable. I found this out against CF, killing him at like 130+ uncharged. I would still like to see something on the sides though. It doesn't have to be near as powerful (if you look at every other character, their up-smashes hit on the side to some extent)

Bair has been difficult to work with, due to the Reverse Direction command messing things up. I will try to clean that up. Uair should hit equally on both sides -- the bias is a side effect of bones moving around unexpectedly. I'll try an' fix that. I will also consider your suggestion for nair.

I only have gripes about the hitboxes on Bair and fair. This is the one change I stress as necessary. The hitboxes have to match the animation here. I suggest adding some weaker hitboxes near the tip of the stars.

interestingly neutral B will kinda work OOS. But I still think making nair's hitbox bigger is the way to give Wisp an ok OOS move.

Did you try catching people in the charge animation of Down-smash? You might find it to be a very nice move then.

6 damage is pitiful for a smash... I still can't find a decent use for this move. sorry

Down B will likely only see any hits in very rare circumstances (or FFAs). However, it is a good way to impel your opponent to approach you. If for example, a Falco is spamming lasers at you from the other side of FD, you can begin a Down+B. The lasers will simply sail overhead. You won't hit Falco, but you can be done the first charge by the time he draws near.

ok. I have to lol at using this in BTT though :D

Side B is currently unable to do weaker attacks when it has charges. I'm not sure I could change that with the way it's set up.

This should work for having both options of side-B:

Assuming the baby one comes out in 4 frames:

Async timer: 4 frames
if(condition: button pressed: B)
goto: large attack subaction
else
goto: small attack subaction

in the small attack subaction have the hitboxes come out immediately

 

[-dUb-]

Uncharged side-b can jab lock, fully charged launch angle feels weird imo should be more like 45-60 degrees
Pivot-grab has insane range

Also, I think the back throw should throw them, you know, back...

The guy who made mewtwo got the tag to stay while air-dodging, maybe that could help with the shield/tag invisibility problems

 

[VietGeek]

Bair has been difficult to work with, due to the Reverse Direction command messing things up. I will try to clean that up.

Change the hitbox type to Special Offensive Collision. This makes it so hits cannot be reversable.

To make the hitbox actually work, in Undefined parameter 2, c/p 004FFFC3 in.

Magus is so amazing at finding these things. o_O