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East Midlands Social Thread
- Thread starter Yeniths
- Start date
The_Rake
Smash Lord
sweet, incidently anyone fancy a wifi game sometime? 
The_Rake
Smash Lord
My apologies for all of the questions but is there anywhere in the forums that relates to crews at all
I'm kinda thinkin of joining one atm.
I'm kinda thinkin of joining one atm.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
You can't do that because brawl is your life.
Kasper!
Smash Lord
koool if there is one i wanna see your great falco
LMFAO!!!!
Show no mercy son provide the snake ****
LOL
Siyico
Smash Cadet
Soo... much..brawl... its like aids i swear lol.
Willz
Smash Master
Brawlbrawlbrawl!!1!1!1!11!1!!1!!!!!1!11!
Kasper!
Smash Lord
oh no and now it begins
K.Mac
Smash Lord
Haha. Who do you main?
@ calzorz - dude, don't start the brawl haters off. seriously. xD. We all know Brawl has its flaws, but Melee has flaws too.
(I like to stand on a neutral ground as I love both games.
)I think I'm going to try go back to practicing nao.
voilentjack
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
- Messages
- 234
Lol
melee's only flaw is that its too awesome.
but seriously brawl is made easy to play
they rushed melee because they wanted it out with the Gcube as a special launch.
all those lovely bugs + broken-ness ? :D make it too good
brawl wasnt rushed at all they took a long time .
+ sakurai even said he wanted it to be a bread and butter game
melee's only flaw is that its too awesome.
but seriously brawl is made easy to play
they rushed melee because they wanted it out with the Gcube as a special launch.
all those lovely bugs + broken-ness ? :D make it too good
brawl wasnt rushed at all they took a long time .
+ sakurai even said he wanted it to be a bread and butter game
I heartily agree.
Also, we may actually need housing on the saturday if its still available. Sorry I didn't mention it earlier but making the arrangements is difficult as I cannot drive, train is very expensive and its a very long distance to travel.
You probably don't have enough space left to house 2 extra people... If not do you know of anywhere else nearby that we could stay?
EDIT: Im staying the hell out of the Melee vs Brawl debate... but MELEE SUX LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!11!1!
Btw Edwin, Brawl was hella rushed too... all the evidence is on the disc. The ammount of unfinished suff and unused data on the disc is rediculess. Brawl should have been released late 2008 but they rushed it to get it out cos they promised it earlier.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
loool Yeah meleee sucks. Look how interesting brawl is. I can't search on youtube cos there is a problem with my computer so can someonelse help me find some of those interesting brawl matches on youtube I always watch?
voilentjack
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
- Messages
- 234
fix'd ......
Anaky
Smash Champion
Yeah stop it guys, ive told you now.
And NO YOU > voilentjack.
And NO YOU > voilentjack.
Tamoo
Smash Master
That was too good Edwin...
Just too **** good
Just too **** good
The_Rake
Smash Lord
Does it really make any difference which is better? They are both epic games with a slight different feel and character roster. We could debate which is the better game for eternity (no doubt you have and will) but really it all comes down to preference does it not?
Anaky
Smash Champion
OK lets settle this.
WALL-E > All
Edit: NO JOHNS
WALL-E > All
Edit: NO JOHNS
Anaky
Smash Champion
P-Pro confrim yourself so i can **** you on melee with Link.
lol jk
I want to see some sick melee being played.
lol jk
I want to see some sick melee being played.
OldGeezer666
Smash Journeyman
I'll be confirmed when willz knows hes 100% confirmeD
but just because its a yoshi =p i may play ma falcon
Falco and kirbyHaha. Who do you main?
but just because its a yoshi =p i may play ma falcon
K.Mac
Smash Lord
Lol. Just so you know, I've 3-stocked lv.9 Falcons before.
And I can also play a fairly decent Falco, so you may find I use him instead.
muahaha.
And I can also play a fairly decent Falco, so you may find I use him instead.
muahaha.
The_Rake
Smash Lord
Been doing a load of practicing today with my friend. He plays a decent snake and ike. 3 stocked him a couple of times =) bring on the competition
voilentjack
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
- Messages
- 234
isthis your first tourney
/competitive experience
Rake
/competitive experience
Rake
The_Rake
Smash Lord
It is indeed. I'm not expecting to do amazingly well tbh, what first timer would?
Still, should be good fun/experience.
Still, should be good fun/experience.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
According to Auroreon Melee is more unbalanced then brawl even though they planned on banning a certain character in the game and even though jigglypuffs and CFs still **** alot of people in melee and along with ALOT of other characters. He implied no other characters can beat Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth and Peach. I told him I will not say anymore and I will leave it to the people of smashboards to prove that brawl is obviously more unbalanced then melee.
LOL
You really love your Melee huh Prof? I'll be happy to debate how balanced the two games are in relation to one another but we should probably stick to PMs. And btw, I didn't imply others can't beat high tier chars, just that it isn't as easy.
You really love your Melee huh Prof? I'll be happy to debate how balanced the two games are in relation to one another but we should probably stick to PMs. And btw, I didn't imply others can't beat high tier chars, just that it isn't as easy.
Aiko
Smash Champion
tbh, neither of you are in a position to argue the balance of brawl and melee, since neither of you play both to a high standard.
Prof only plays melee to a high standard. Auroreon only plays brawl (and i don't even know to what standard)
The few people in UK who could actually argue the balance would be me, fuzzyness and edwin. I could probably mention a few other people too but just looking at the top few brawl players, most of them have zero/little melee experience.
Prof only plays melee to a high standard. Auroreon only plays brawl (and i don't even know to what standard)
The few people in UK who could actually argue the balance would be me, fuzzyness and edwin. I could probably mention a few other people too but just looking at the top few brawl players, most of them have zero/little melee experience.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
You still didn't enter your opinion you just came and try to say that we can't make both of our points. So enter your opinion or *** off....yeah I said it to a moderator loool love you really.
Cos you and me both know that brawl is more unbalanced.
Cos you and me both know that brawl is more unbalanced.
Aiko
Smash Champion
Did this just for you prof
Brawl is definitely more unbalanced. The best 2 characters (MK and snake) and possibly marth are miles better than all the other characters. In melee, the top 4 (fox, falco, marth and sheik) are all viable, and with possibly the addition of falcon and peach, whom are still viable but not quite as good.
For the sake of argument, I am only going to cover Top level play in melee and brawl.
Brawl is completely about being safe. Risky moves rarely pay off in the long run, making comebacks ridiculously difficult. Since the combo potential is low, you only get about 10-20% per mindgame (snake can do about 30-40% per mindgame, making him the king of trading hits). Since you need about 120-150% to kill, rather than mindgaming, the best tactic is to repeat safe moves that are hard to punish, resulting in very tough comebacks.
In melee, 1 mindgame can equal 1 stock and on average 1 mindgame = 30-70% with the kill % around 90-110%, meaning whilst the demand to play safer is even higher than brawl, it makes comebacks possible, resulting in higher level play where less mistakes are made. Basically, brawl promotes easy and unrefined play. Yes it is also possible to play safe moves in melee that are hard to punish, but the reward for getting around this is much greater.
In brawl, because the resultant play is so unvaried and forgiving, there are only 2 routes to go: Comboing and gimping (MK). Since there is little combo potential is low, this is logically replaced by hit trading (the opposite of combo) and snake is the best at this. Since trading hits is inevitable with the low hitstun and low combo potential, this makes snake the best character in terms of consistancy. MK is only good if you can get the gimp early, otherwise his weakness (light weight) is too much of a punishing factor to make him the best character. Snake just outlives (average 180%) and outtrades (30-40% per mindgame) every other character in the game.
Going the route of stage control or spacing is more or less pointless since these are also covered by MK and Snake.
In melee, the importances (spacing, speed, control, combo) are all covered by the top 6 and are distributed fairly reasonably.
Fox excels in speed and combo. He is good at controlling, and spacing is average for a top tier character. His best ranged moves being Bair and upsmash.
Falco excels in combo and control with lasers. His speed is not as fast as fox or falcon, and his moves have similar spacing to fox's.
Marth excels in spacing and comboing, he has good shortrange control and low speed.
Sheik is excellent in all 4 aspects but probably not the best for each one. A good all rounder
Peach has good spacing and control, decent combos but very low mobility.
Falcon has excellent speed and combo, but only has average spacing and low control.
For starters the game is not gimped (brawl is because comboing is replaced by trading hits) meaning its already has more options available. Looking at the top 6 characters you can already begin to imagine melee is more balanced. Despite brawls large roster, it is incredibly unbalanced. If snake and MK were banned then the game would just result in other characters dominating the game (marth). The differences between each tiers are far too great for brawl to be ever balanced. The fact that melee has been played for 7 years and has had fluctuations in its metagame, yet remained stable is a testament to its balance. All of the top 6 can win, and then there are others who can win, eg Jiggs. It is not melee that has to prove itself. Thats brawls job.
Brawl is definitely more unbalanced. The best 2 characters (MK and snake) and possibly marth are miles better than all the other characters. In melee, the top 4 (fox, falco, marth and sheik) are all viable, and with possibly the addition of falcon and peach, whom are still viable but not quite as good.
For the sake of argument, I am only going to cover Top level play in melee and brawl.
Brawl is completely about being safe. Risky moves rarely pay off in the long run, making comebacks ridiculously difficult. Since the combo potential is low, you only get about 10-20% per mindgame (snake can do about 30-40% per mindgame, making him the king of trading hits). Since you need about 120-150% to kill, rather than mindgaming, the best tactic is to repeat safe moves that are hard to punish, resulting in very tough comebacks.
In melee, 1 mindgame can equal 1 stock and on average 1 mindgame = 30-70% with the kill % around 90-110%, meaning whilst the demand to play safer is even higher than brawl, it makes comebacks possible, resulting in higher level play where less mistakes are made. Basically, brawl promotes easy and unrefined play. Yes it is also possible to play safe moves in melee that are hard to punish, but the reward for getting around this is much greater.
In brawl, because the resultant play is so unvaried and forgiving, there are only 2 routes to go: Comboing and gimping (MK). Since there is little combo potential is low, this is logically replaced by hit trading (the opposite of combo) and snake is the best at this. Since trading hits is inevitable with the low hitstun and low combo potential, this makes snake the best character in terms of consistancy. MK is only good if you can get the gimp early, otherwise his weakness (light weight) is too much of a punishing factor to make him the best character. Snake just outlives (average 180%) and outtrades (30-40% per mindgame) every other character in the game.
Going the route of stage control or spacing is more or less pointless since these are also covered by MK and Snake.
In melee, the importances (spacing, speed, control, combo) are all covered by the top 6 and are distributed fairly reasonably.
Fox excels in speed and combo. He is good at controlling, and spacing is average for a top tier character. His best ranged moves being Bair and upsmash.
Falco excels in combo and control with lasers. His speed is not as fast as fox or falcon, and his moves have similar spacing to fox's.
Marth excels in spacing and comboing, he has good shortrange control and low speed.
Sheik is excellent in all 4 aspects but probably not the best for each one. A good all rounder
Peach has good spacing and control, decent combos but very low mobility.
Falcon has excellent speed and combo, but only has average spacing and low control.
For starters the game is not gimped (brawl is because comboing is replaced by trading hits) meaning its already has more options available. Looking at the top 6 characters you can already begin to imagine melee is more balanced. Despite brawls large roster, it is incredibly unbalanced. If snake and MK were banned then the game would just result in other characters dominating the game (marth). The differences between each tiers are far too great for brawl to be ever balanced. The fact that melee has been played for 7 years and has had fluctuations in its metagame, yet remained stable is a testament to its balance. All of the top 6 can win, and then there are others who can win, eg Jiggs. It is not melee that has to prove itself. Thats brawls job.
Aiko
Smash Champion
I'm quite happy for someone to counter this debate, but not with mindless arguing/flaming. Debate it, and put forward your points with evidence. And it won't even be considered unless you understand both games. Just because you are a high/top level brawl player, doesnt mean you understand melee. Comparisons require understanding of both games, otherwise you're biased.
aiko if u think snake is 2nd best in game u dont know brawl no offense the tier list wa smade when every1 was scrubs and thought mk and snake were the two who were godly m2ks tier list is a better balance 1. mk 2.falco 3.marth even pika and wario are higher tiers than snake pika with godly cgs wario with godly spacing and super armour etc why snake about 7th? mk can gimp him so easy hes cg weaknesses and his recovary sucks can easily land into a smash or atack reason i say this is in ur previouse post u make mk sound bad and snake real good were as u might wana learn a bit more tbh
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
i get off work at 6pm and will get to gy for around 7ish lincoln 7.20ish depends where u want me to get you
I got aiko then yen then almas last time i was not happy......
Pokemon?
MakoMako
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 252
There are around 8 tournament viable characters in melee and around 7 in brawl; seeing as prof brought up mk i guess it's only fair to bring up mk.
If you're at a brawl tournament, you're gonna get ***** by mk no matter who you use. If fox could be picked up in 1 month and start dishing out **** against every other character then he'd be broken. People get beat by mk's and want to stich to mk because they think they'll stand a better chance.
They want mk banned because, with him gone snake will be at the top. Snake gets beat by dedede and has it pretty bad with falco, falco has it pretty bad with G&W, G&W has it pretty bad against marth, who might just get taken out by that dedede.
If you're at a melee tournament, you use peach, you see a fox, you're gonna get *****, but you're gonna be laughing when he's getting upthrowed by the marth who beat you in pools, you're still gonna be laughing when the marth is receiving ledge-dropped back airs from sheik.
So how can anyone say that brawl is more balanced than melee? You'd only say that if you hadn't faced a good mk before, grab a slo-motion timer and face cpu marth while they're on normal speed. Thats MK.
The main reason why brawl is better than melee is because prof doesn't play it.
If you're at a brawl tournament, you're gonna get ***** by mk no matter who you use. If fox could be picked up in 1 month and start dishing out **** against every other character then he'd be broken. People get beat by mk's and want to stich to mk because they think they'll stand a better chance.
They want mk banned because, with him gone snake will be at the top. Snake gets beat by dedede and has it pretty bad with falco, falco has it pretty bad with G&W, G&W has it pretty bad against marth, who might just get taken out by that dedede.
If you're at a melee tournament, you use peach, you see a fox, you're gonna get *****, but you're gonna be laughing when he's getting upthrowed by the marth who beat you in pools, you're still gonna be laughing when the marth is receiving ledge-dropped back airs from sheik.
So how can anyone say that brawl is more balanced than melee? You'd only say that if you hadn't faced a good mk before, grab a slo-motion timer and face cpu marth while they're on normal speed. Thats MK.
The main reason why brawl is better than melee is because prof doesn't play it.
nah i'm playing but i hope you get my point
Aiko
Smash Champion
I think snake is top 2, possibly the best, but brawl still needs to develop. I do highlight MK's weaknesses a lot more, but thats because I understand them better. M2K is not always right, and I would argue his tierlist, but that is not the point. Tournament results say the most, with MK and Snake winning the most tournaments and having them also top8 more frequently than other characters.
lol @ Melee vs Brawl debate again. I just wanna make it clear that I hold no bias towards either game, I believe Brawl to be the more balanced game because its not as difficult for low tier chars to win as it was in Melee.
That said, I'm not stating Brawl is better so please don't take that away from this (pro...), merely that the greater diversity in character choice in Brawl is a result of it not being as difficult to win with low tier characters.
That said, I'm not stating Brawl is better so please don't take that away from this (pro...), merely that the greater diversity in character choice in Brawl is a result of it not being as difficult to win with low tier characters.
Aiko
Smash Champion
yeah this is getting way to heated again. probs best to stop it now and continue on msn :/