D
Deleted member
Guest
More were for its ban than against. It's banned in a LOT of tournaments.
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Runawayfire
Smash Lord
No, as I recall correctly YOU were the only one Pro banning it here, everyone else said counterpick, and this thread is supposed to be THIS scene's stage discussion is it not?
Also, last time I checked it was legal at all the tournaments that've been in the scene, same with Stadium 1 being put as a neutral.
Also, last time I checked it was legal at all the tournaments that've been in the scene, same with Stadium 1 being put as a neutral.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Recently it was banned @ UCLA6
CT4 - http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=150472 Banned here too
It will be banned more when people realize it is mini-hyrule
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156288&page=10 - read that page again. im tryin to stay objective, i like mansion, but it's way too good for some characters and the stage itself is hyrule
and i really couldn't find any tournament that had stadium as neutral, thats just stupid
CT4 - http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=150472 Banned here too
It will be banned more when people realize it is mini-hyrule
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156288&page=10 - read that page again. im tryin to stay objective, i like mansion, but it's way too good for some characters and the stage itself is hyrule
and i really couldn't find any tournament that had stadium as neutral, thats just stupid
Runawayfire
Smash Lord
How about listening to what I'm saying instead of just posting non objective opinions?
This is a stage discussion for THIS SCENE.
THIS SCENE doesn't think it should be banned, and we had it as a counterpick HERE.
Therefor despite if you like it or not, its NOT banned HERE. If you cannot accept this then you're far from being objective.
And as I said, SBaN and Combo Breaker both had Pokemon stadium 1 as neutral. Its still a good level.
This is a stage discussion for THIS SCENE.
THIS SCENE doesn't think it should be banned, and we had it as a counterpick HERE.
Therefor despite if you like it or not, its NOT banned HERE. If you cannot accept this then you're far from being objective.
And as I said, SBaN and Combo Breaker both had Pokemon stadium 1 as neutral. Its still a good level.
D
Deleted member
Guest
nate i dont get you
i know this thread is for our scene but why would we want to defect from popular opinion unless it is something ridiculous
anyway this thread is not about my likes or dislikes, it's just a thread to discuss. i updated the page so it would attract attention and ge tpeople debatin. wait for more people to voice their opinion.
like Steve said our best bet is to ban things that are probably going to be banned ni the future to avoid problems. mansion is one of them.
also, corneria is definitely not a CP, i motion for ban. anyone?>
Further, the first sban had mansion on as a neutral. things change. the more we learn about the game influences that
i know this thread is for our scene but why would we want to defect from popular opinion unless it is something ridiculous
anyway this thread is not about my likes or dislikes, it's just a thread to discuss. i updated the page so it would attract attention and ge tpeople debatin. wait for more people to voice their opinion.
like Steve said our best bet is to ban things that are probably going to be banned ni the future to avoid problems. mansion is one of them.
also, corneria is definitely not a CP, i motion for ban. anyone?>
Further, the first sban had mansion on as a neutral. things change. the more we learn about the game influences that
Runawayfire
Smash Lord
And we have arrived back to the beggining of the arguement.
If you're the only one saying it actually should be banned, then its not.
Motioning for a ban on Corneria while you got no democratic backing to ban another level is rediculous. In short, you just proved to yourself that Mansion shouldn't be on ban. To say anything else now would pretty much kill your credibility.
And, its entirely your opinion on if Mansion will be banned in the future, if we do find ourselves the only scene to play on it (highly unlikely as its of much controversy)..... ban it THEN, you don't seem to be taking half as much consideration with other stages which are pretty much sitting in the same boat as Mansion.
Hell, we just finished a motion to ban Hannenbrow yet its still on counterpick on the list, suddenly this looks a lot less democratic and more about what YOU think the levels should be.
If you're the only one saying it actually should be banned, then its not.
Motioning for a ban on Corneria while you got no democratic backing to ban another level is rediculous. In short, you just proved to yourself that Mansion shouldn't be on ban. To say anything else now would pretty much kill your credibility.
And, its entirely your opinion on if Mansion will be banned in the future, if we do find ourselves the only scene to play on it (highly unlikely as its of much controversy)..... ban it THEN, you don't seem to be taking half as much consideration with other stages which are pretty much sitting in the same boat as Mansion.
Hell, we just finished a motion to ban Hannenbrow yet its still on counterpick on the list, suddenly this looks a lot less democratic and more about what YOU think the levels should be.
D
Deleted member
Guest
nate, lemme just clarify some shiat, when i ninja edited the first post i moved some things quickly. the list was mad outdated and wasnt updated so i did a quick one.
by the way, if you consider hanenbow decided as Counterpick and not ban, that's definitely bias on your part, because there was enough agreement on banning luigis or at least "okay i can see that", as there was for hanenbow.
btw this argument is so freaking messy. let's break it down:
Ok so I motioned for Luigi's for ban, I provided a pro's opinion and said my thoughts, a handful of people said it was legitimate reasoning
You motion for Hanenbow banned because GK successfully CP'd it, because yo uthought it was too gay.
If Hanenbow is banned, then I see no reason why Luigi's is not.
Suddenly, I don't have a bias because I haven't been CP'd because I haven't played a brawl tournament. This isn't my list, this is not my bias, I don't have one, I am only trying to rally the opinions on brawl stages so for future tournaments we have stage rules that are widely held.
Also, my opinions on Corneria are separate from my beef with Luigi's. Saying I have no credibility because we disagree on a stage ban is silly, come on.
Like seriously I was beating you on Mansion last night and I laughed the entire time because of how stupid it was. You got uptilted like 4 times in a row because of the ceilings. It was like skyworld only less gimpy.
by the way, if you consider hanenbow decided as Counterpick and not ban, that's definitely bias on your part, because there was enough agreement on banning luigis or at least "okay i can see that", as there was for hanenbow.
btw this argument is so freaking messy. let's break it down:
Ok so I motioned for Luigi's for ban, I provided a pro's opinion and said my thoughts, a handful of people said it was legitimate reasoning
You motion for Hanenbow banned because GK successfully CP'd it, because yo uthought it was too gay.
If Hanenbow is banned, then I see no reason why Luigi's is not.
Suddenly, I don't have a bias because I haven't been CP'd because I haven't played a brawl tournament. This isn't my list, this is not my bias, I don't have one, I am only trying to rally the opinions on brawl stages so for future tournaments we have stage rules that are widely held.
Also, my opinions on Corneria are separate from my beef with Luigi's. Saying I have no credibility because we disagree on a stage ban is silly, come on.
Like seriously I was beating you on Mansion last night and I laughed the entire time because of how stupid it was. You got uptilted like 4 times in a row because of the ceilings. It was like skyworld only less gimpy.
Runawayfire
Smash Lord
I was not the only person who motioned to ban hannenbrow and even GK himself posted that he agreed against it, things are a little above me saying "OMG BAN IT CAUSE ITS A GOOD COUNTERPICK" so you either didn't pay attention, or just missed out cause you weren't there.
On the other hand, YOU are the sole person motioning to ban Luigi's, while you got some: "okay i can see that" s,
no one else :said "yes this level is gay motion to ban it here's why"
I didn't doubt your credibility because you disagree with me, I doubted it because its hyprocritical to try and run something demographic for one ban, and then ignore that same motion for another stage. If this thread is to reflect the ACTUAL tournament rules for around here, you're going to have to give a **** about what actually goes on, not just what you want.
Otherwise this thread is just inaccurate, because it wont actually reflect what the rules in this scene are, ( for instance I have a pretty **** good idea that the big Niagra tournament coming up will have stadium on neutral, and luigi's as counterpick)
On the other hand, YOU are the sole person motioning to ban Luigi's, while you got some: "okay i can see that" s,
no one else :said "yes this level is gay motion to ban it here's why"
I didn't doubt your credibility because you disagree with me, I doubted it because its hyprocritical to try and run something demographic for one ban, and then ignore that same motion for another stage. If this thread is to reflect the ACTUAL tournament rules for around here, you're going to have to give a **** about what actually goes on, not just what you want.
Otherwise this thread is just inaccurate, because it wont actually reflect what the rules in this scene are, ( for instance I have a pretty **** good idea that the big Niagra tournament coming up will have stadium on neutral, and luigi's as counterpick)
D
Deleted member
Guest
i think we can both agree to this solution -
this thread is just theory fighter. it'll help in the end. now, for the solution:
I move Mansion to CP
I move Corneria to Ban
and I keep Hanenbow as CP
Therefore it keeps things stable until we hammer out a decision. Agreed?
Runawayfire
Smash Lord
Yeah, thats a good way for things to go.
It appears the Niagra tournament will be even more important for GTA brawl.
It appears the Niagra tournament will be even more important for GTA brawl.
D
Deleted member
Guest
K so I did that. The time to discuss the stages in question is now, people.
Voice your opinion on Hanenbow, Luigi's Mansion and Corneria.
Voice your opinion on Hanenbow, Luigi's Mansion and Corneria.
Percon
Smash Lord
LM: CP for now. Obviously some people/characters do very well on this stage, but it should remain CP for now. I've already heard all the negative stuff associated with this stage, such as living too long and a bit of a circle, but it IS destructible. Also destructible stuff is cool with stale move negation, adds _some_ extra depth.
Corneria: Ban. This was a pretty camp-heavy stage in Melee, and it still is in brawl. And the wall is more of a pain now that a lot of characters can use the wall in devious ways.
Hanenbow: Teams only. It's too easy to run away, I think... though I've never actually played this stage during a tournament, so I lack experience.
Corneria: Ban. This was a pretty camp-heavy stage in Melee, and it still is in brawl. And the wall is more of a pain now that a lot of characters can use the wall in devious ways.
Hanenbow: Teams only. It's too easy to run away, I think... though I've never actually played this stage during a tournament, so I lack experience.
J.L
Smash Ace
hanenbow.... ban
LM- cp
Corneria- ban
LM- cp
Corneria- ban
D
Deleted member
Guest
JL, only posts that give in depth reasoning will be considered
Niko_K
Smash Master
Kjdjy
Smash Journeyman
Mansion deserves a ban about 100x more than Corneria. Corneria applies pretty much the same way it did in melee with regard to infinites and corner camping/abuse. Mansion is just such an easy counterpick win in so many situations, the level does all of the comboing for you and theres often no way out of it because teching just gets you hit again anyways.
Hanenbow I dont know, I hate the level and I hate the way people use it so I'd like to see it banned but I can't think of a serious justification
Hanenbow I dont know, I hate the level and I hate the way people use it so I'd like to see it banned but I can't think of a serious justification
D
Deleted member
Guest
Steve - Have you seen Meta Knight play on Corneria?!?
Dragon_Hawk
Smash Lord
*.........*
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
It doesn't make much difference for Meta, he is broken everywhere. He's like a flying broken thing.
Corneria was allowed in Melee because you couldn't actually use the wall to infinite. Due to the fact that it is a moving stage, waveshines have no effect because your opponent moves as the ship moves. This whole mobile stage thing really ****s things up, and you magically get frames with no hit-stun. Its important to remember that this stage was mostly picked as a means of camping.
The problem with Corneria in Brawl, is that we have characters like 3D to which this rule does of mobile stages and no hit-stun does not apply. In causality, dthrow is inescapable on this level.
Beyond that, Corneria has no particularly bad points. Referencing its natural inclination towards campy characters doesn't hold much value in this debate. Stages weren't banned in melee because of how "campable" they were.
Oh, and Metaknight being "good" on corneria is like Fox being "good" on corneria. They are both really good characters, who can both use the level to their advantage because of the overpowered tools at their disposal.
Though annoying, that isn't enough to ban a stage entirely. Those are the type of problems smart gameplay fixes. [IMO]
Mansion should be CP. Think of it as Dreamland. High ceiling, nothing ********. If you get tech-chased on it, you aren't teching well. Think, sometimes a rising attack will suffice. Stupid players and their tech-roll failures shouldn't be a reason to ban mansion. Anyways, I know everyone here loves using the ceiling for combos.
Corneria was allowed in Melee because you couldn't actually use the wall to infinite. Due to the fact that it is a moving stage, waveshines have no effect because your opponent moves as the ship moves. This whole mobile stage thing really ****s things up, and you magically get frames with no hit-stun. Its important to remember that this stage was mostly picked as a means of camping.
The problem with Corneria in Brawl, is that we have characters like 3D to which this rule does of mobile stages and no hit-stun does not apply. In causality, dthrow is inescapable on this level.
Beyond that, Corneria has no particularly bad points. Referencing its natural inclination towards campy characters doesn't hold much value in this debate. Stages weren't banned in melee because of how "campable" they were.
Oh, and Metaknight being "good" on corneria is like Fox being "good" on corneria. They are both really good characters, who can both use the level to their advantage because of the overpowered tools at their disposal.
Though annoying, that isn't enough to ban a stage entirely. Those are the type of problems smart gameplay fixes. [IMO]
Mansion should be CP. Think of it as Dreamland. High ceiling, nothing ********. If you get tech-chased on it, you aren't teching well. Think, sometimes a rising attack will suffice. Stupid players and their tech-roll failures shouldn't be a reason to ban mansion. Anyways, I know everyone here loves using the ceiling for combos.
Sanu
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Messages
- 2,179
Don't tech the ceiling, tech away on the ground after you bounce off the ceiling. It's like Bernard said, smart gameplay can fix things.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
Just a heads up... About half of them were LOL (Temple much?)
rx-007
Smash Apprentice
hanenbow is electroplankton?
BigRick
Smash Master
No.
electroplankton is hanenbow...
electroplankton is hanenbow...
alphameric
Smash Ace
Mansion - CP because I have yet to play a game where Hyrule comes into play resulting in stalling the match.
Corneria - CP, as much as I ****ing HATE this level in Brawl, I can't think of any reason to ban it since it's basically the same as it was in Melee.. just a ****load smaller.
Hanenbow - Ban in singles, CP in teams. This is like Hyrule.
Norfair - Ban because it's the same as Hanenbow, but with more ledges and hazards.
Stadium2 - CP because the reasoning isn't nearly good enough to have it banned.
Corneria - CP, as much as I ****ing HATE this level in Brawl, I can't think of any reason to ban it since it's basically the same as it was in Melee.. just a ****load smaller.
Hanenbow - Ban in singles, CP in teams. This is like Hyrule.
Norfair - Ban because it's the same as Hanenbow, but with more ledges and hazards.
Stadium2 - CP because the reasoning isn't nearly good enough to have it banned.
Switchblade
Smash Journeyman
in all honesty I believe Stadium 2 has been and always will be a banned stage
its one thing to have 1 or 2 of the stage changes game breaking but for god sake , every change is rediculus. you have ice which increases probability of tripping. ground which gives us another wall for DDD to chaingrab infinite. flying which breaks MK even more, and lastly you have conveyor belts, yea that last one wasnt any good.
But even so, 3 out of 5 different stages changes that can break gameplay is what i believe to be more than enough reason to ban it.
its one thing to have 1 or 2 of the stage changes game breaking but for god sake , every change is rediculus. you have ice which increases probability of tripping. ground which gives us another wall for DDD to chaingrab infinite. flying which breaks MK even more, and lastly you have conveyor belts, yea that last one wasnt any good.
But even so, 3 out of 5 different stages changes that can break gameplay is what i believe to be more than enough reason to ban it.
alphameric
Smash Ace
I dont think ice increases chances of tripping, stadium 1 has a wall for d3 to cg on, *flying* would be considered stalling the game like it would on any other stage, and the conveyor belts are ****ing awesome for ledgegaurding
Hanenbow: too much platforms here and there according to me. The moving platforms as soon as they get hit is annoying and the music is plain... I couldn't concentrate.
Luigi's mansion should be at the same position as castle siege, they both have the same column / statue that hold a platform and interrupts the gameplay. I don't know what's the lastest decision about castle siege, I'd ban them... but I don't have any real argument =|
Corneria: I never liked the stage, everyone ends fighting at the right of the ship and the fight becomes often random / boring / garbage. I'd ban it just for the sake of not seeing tournament matches in this stage anymore.
Switchblade
Smash Journeyman
often times when it switches over to ice, Ive found myself tripping atleast 3 times during that stage change. also Stages have been banned for stalling a match, flying stalls to no end and on top of that MK (and GaW but im not too sure since I havent seen it and the Bair looks like it could do some serious damage since every one is stalled in air) can potentially ****. and you're right the wall was in stadium 1 but it was only 1(potentially 2) 5 stage changes and the other 3 were pretty neutral since they didnt do anything to break the game
infamousGK
Smash Apprentice
Okay now for my 2 cents...
Electro- Banned in singles CP in doubles because you can run forever.
LM- CP because you can break the place if the person is running. If they camp the wall use a projectile character when they say "I pick LM"
NOW FOR A NEW ONE- Yoshi's Story GC... Yes I said it! Now this was banned in Melee because of the waveshine... It isn't in Brawl so I would like to see this stage as a CP. If you can give me a reason for it not to be a CP then do so.
Corneria- Banned. It is the same size as Melee Corneria or the characters got bigger, but this level is ****ed!
Norfair- Banned for obvious reasons that I've stated before.
*Sanuzi, I have told Steve this a million times... I always tell him to tech the ground but it is nice to get other people that can see logic when it smacks them in the face*
Electro- Banned in singles CP in doubles because you can run forever.
LM- CP because you can break the place if the person is running. If they camp the wall use a projectile character when they say "I pick LM"
NOW FOR A NEW ONE- Yoshi's Story GC... Yes I said it! Now this was banned in Melee because of the waveshine... It isn't in Brawl so I would like to see this stage as a CP. If you can give me a reason for it not to be a CP then do so.
Corneria- Banned. It is the same size as Melee Corneria or the characters got bigger, but this level is ****ed!
Norfair- Banned for obvious reasons that I've stated before.
*Sanuzi, I have told Steve this a million times... I always tell him to tech the ground but it is nice to get other people that can see logic when it smacks them in the face*
Delfino Plaza should possibly become a CP IMO (only for minor reasons, I don't really care whether or not its neutral or CP, it's just a thought) because there's walls, your vulnerable in water for a bit if your close to the main platform, and the stage is really glitchy 
. Plus the main platform goes on past the death-zone thingy so you can be CG'd/get an early KO off of it.
Green Greens should maybe become CP (don't have any reasons)
Yoshi's Story Melee should also become CP, because of the reasons the guy above listed.
. Plus the main platform goes on past the death-zone thingy so you can be CG'd/get an early KO off of it.Green Greens should maybe become CP (don't have any reasons)
Yoshi's Story Melee should also become CP, because of the reasons the guy above listed.
Switchblade
Smash Journeyman
well for one the walls are so closed in, it's ********. like flatzone ********. and from what it seems, DDD can still CG up hill. which is pretty much the equivalent to the wave shine in this case.
the ceiling is mediocre so i have nothing with that, and platforms are meh.
Grmo
Smash Champion
it's more than the waveshine because I never see anyone screw it up. It's really annoying that we have to ban stages because one otherwise mediocre character has an amazing combo that controls his metagame >_>
votes for banning DDD instead of all these levels?
votes for banning DDD instead of all these levels?
Sanu
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Messages
- 2,179
Haha, no problem. It just seemed so obvious XD;
Oh, and it's Yoshi's Island you're talking about, right? <_<
infamousGK
Smash Apprentice
I didn't think he could CG up hills. That's ****! Oh well. I found some *t***d **** on Norfair. I'm pretty sure it will be banned once I show everyone the captured file I have. Let's just say the level kills you if you don't tech. You hit the lava and then hit the bottom of the level and then go through the lava without getting hit a second time =S and die... Even if you tech it the first time the lava will still come up hit you into the level for a second time and you still die...
Now I'm going to hear a bunch of LM haters speak up and say well that's the same as LM...
"If you don't tech you get killed... If you do tech you get killed... Ban LM because I'm bad and can't tech the ground" (LM haters).
Now I'm going to hear a bunch of LM haters speak up and say well that's the same as LM...
"If you don't tech you get killed... If you do tech you get killed... Ban LM because I'm bad and can't tech the ground" (LM haters).
infamousGK
Smash Apprentice
Yes, I was talking about Yoshi's Island. My bad.
I vote for Dedede's ban as well.
I vote for Dedede's ban as well.
Switchblade
Smash Journeyman
lol i wonder what rob'd say to the banning of ddd
but yea i confirmed it today, DDD can CG uphill, and its even more nasty than the wave shine in melee O_O
but yea i confirmed it today, DDD can CG uphill, and its even more nasty than the wave shine in melee O_O
Percon
Smash Lord
So yeah, since some stages are still up in the air I think we should be using this thread a LOT more.
Ambrose
Smash Journeyman
Fox wasn't banned in melee..DDD shouldn't be banned. Just ban levels that make his CG overpowered. About yoshi's island or any edge-less level, there are a fair amount of people that DDD cannot continuously CG right off the level. For example, peach and toonlink look like they can be CG'd, but peach can dsmash before DDD can grab again and toonlink can grab DDD before DDD grabs him again. Just choose those characters if you are counter picked to an edge-less level.
^ yeah thats true, you cant ban DDD -.- thats just ******** lmao but i dont think they were serious about banning DDD. I personally think corneria should be banned because you camp on that level soo much, and dedede can wall infinite you at the bottom right and thats pretty gay.... a infinite. also, someone can just hit you once so your at a higher %, run down to the bottom right and the other person will be forced to approach. Metaknight can just up b when the other player is trying to approach and that puts them at a severe disadvantage. besides, this level promotes wayyy too much camping. I vote for corneria to be banned.
J.L
Smash Ace
i dont really like corneria too with the camping and all. most of the fight is taken to the lower part of the ship. and tht loop thing with metaknight is pretty lame. it just feels so much diff playing the brawl corneria.