East Coast Canada Brawl Stage Discussion

[Kjdjy]

The water in Delfino isnt BAD but it does have certain benefits and uses, plus the fact that its a randomly transitioning stage, kind of disrupting the neutrality aspect.

I dunno, my thoughts always were that "neutral" is a very strict set of criteria and counterpicks are everything else as long as it doesnt have some sort of absolutely ******** or game breaking aspect to it, stages were never banned due to hazards but rather because something just made it unplayable or totally abusably broken.

Also Green Greens is much worse now. Why? Pit. That is all.

 

[alphameric]

I'm afraid that the general community is being to short-sighted and hasty in judgment.
Stages have hazards, characters can camp. That is how it has always been, but like before there is always a solution.

Hazards kill, that's why they are hazards.
Projectiles are ranged, which you can dodge in any way you want.

Don't ban a stage because it can be camped, and don't ban a stage because you can't figure out how to dodge the hazard. It's a new game, take the time to learn it.

 

[Grmo]

Appreciated words of wisdom from the brawl stage guru. If you haven't realized by now, metagames change, and right now camping is hard to deal with. Therefore, we must take that into account when dealing with stage bans. Also, it's not like we don't know how to dodge the hazards, it's just that when we're in a really intense match, last stock, you know, you're kind of sitting tensely and not paying attention to much except you and your opponent, the spacing, and your approach/defense. Those stage hazards come out of nowhere and own us.

 

[alphameric]

Like I said, User error is no reason to ban a stage.
Anyways, I don't want to go off on a rant, so I'll just leave you guys to play around with them a little.

 

[Percon]

I'll be pretty open with whatever.

Remember, unpopular stages are less likely to be played on. Hanenbow is CP, but is anyone honestly gonna pick that?

 

[Deleted member]

Like I said, User error is no reason to ban a stage.
Anyways, I don't want to go off on a rant, so I'll just leave you guys to play around with them a little.

Hmm. Well, you're talking about how Norfair should be banned - I find that stage incredibly easy to avoid stage hazards. Yet you want it banned.

Stage hazards can only be handled so much. Simple and generally simple ones are usually okay, but since Pirate Ship has 4 or 5 things that are just ********, it's going to be banned.

 

[Grmo]

I would have to disagree with player error not being a reason to ban a stage. I hardly consider that error, considering how inevitable it is that you're going to be concentrating harder on playing and not on dodging stuff. With that said, doesn't it make sense to focus on the stages that maximize the opportunity for us to actually play, and not have to dodge as much stuff? Anyway, if it was the case that everyone could consistently play without stage hazards affecting them negatively, and could pay attention to everything at once, then there wouldn't have been anything banned in Melee. Brinstar Depths would be a counterpick stage. Heck, it's all about players, not hypothesized playing. If it's gonna mess up the game, we ban the stage.

 

[alphameric]

Hmm. Well, you're talking about how Norfair should be banned - I find that stage incredibly easy to avoid stage hazards. Yet you want it banned.

Stage hazards can only be handled so much. Simple and generally simple ones are usually okay, but since Pirate Ship has 4 or 5 things that are just ********, it's going to be banned.

Sorry if that came across weird, I dont want Norfair banned, I'm saying its hazards are deadlier than Pirate Ship

Edit: And my player error argument is in reference to learning the stage hazards to such a degree that you dont even need to think about them (a la melee). Which means losing focus to any degree that it gets you killed by hazard or opponent is user error, not the games.

 

[Grmo]

It's true that they're more powerful, but all they really do is restrict the stage. You've got 5 platforms that are arranged so that they can be cut off, and the stage is basically just limited. That stupid shower of crap that comes down sucks, but mostly the lava isn't that distracting.

 

[Percon]

The hitboxes for those streams of fire from the back are actually pretty small. But yeah, annoying.

Though, comparatively, Norfiar DOES have the deadlier traps (compared to Pirate Ship), especially considering that multiple can be going on at once (Lava from side + lava from bottom = ONE usable platform) wheras pirate ship only has one thing at a time and is just as easy to cope with.

Both CP, IMO, though I can understand if someone wants one banned.

 

[Pointman Rob]

I love Pirate Ship. I would argue for CP because the stage hazards aren't game breaking in my experience. Sometimes they can come out of nowhere i guess. and the shipwreck part might encourage some camping, but its the same as the rock stage in stadium 1. I dunno, if I were gonna hold a tourney, I'd allow it. I just haven't seen enough convincing evidence against it yet, but maybe that'll change.

Mario Circuit is incredibly campy, I'd ban that.

uh what else...

edit: Greens Greens could probably be CP. It's not as bad as it was in Melee.

edit x2: oh, and Pictochat to CP because saying Counterpictochat makes me smile.

Everything else I agree with.

 

[infamousGK]

Neutral Stages:
Battlefield
FD
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium (GC)
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter picks:
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Corneria
Delfino Plaza (It is the new mute city. Peach can float under and attack, same with Pit, Jiggs, etc)
Distant planet
Elektroplankton
Green Greens
Pirate Ship (So easy to avoid bombs. If you don't want to get spiked by the boat don't get so close!)
Halberd
Jungle Japes ( You can survive the water now so no johns)
Luigi's Mansion
Pictochat
Stadium 2
Skyworld
Rainbow Cruise
Port Town Aero Dive

Those are my picks for the stages. I want Norfair banned because at points in the match it forces you into that enclosed area where Charizard or Bowser can just spam flames and you're ****** as well as one part of the level the lava comes up on the side and bottom so that there is only 1 platform left... That is ****

I don't want any level where you can run off the sides as a counter. There are chaingrabs in this game and if those stages aren't banned then people will just camp the sides and chaingrab people to death. If they're not banned this WILL happen trust me!

 

[infamousGK]

Pokemon Stadium (GC): should be neutral just like in melee... Jump over the windmill... Don't try to go under? I can see why you might make it a counter beacuse of the windmill. Just like Castle Seige is a counter because the chainthrowable part of the level.

Pokemon Stadium 2: You can jump off the belts and onto the platform. I do hate them too but whatever they don't stay there for too long.

Green Hills: Banned!!! stage hazard is really campy as well as the lower ground higher ground rule might effect some match ups and chaingrabs to death = banned in my books

Mario Circuit: Banned! As stated before and by Steve can't kill down. Can chaingrab off the sides and premotes camping.

Skyworld: This is a *** level but why is it banned? Sorry if it was stated before but I don't see a reason to ban this stage.

Pirate Ship: As I stated before the spring does not kill unless you DI into it :S so don't! The bombs take a long time to get to you and you can see it from a mile away. The front of the boat kills which isn't great but you can avoid it!

Green Greens: Is a good counterpick and was not banned in Melee. It is basically the same stage and should not be banned. You can't even get gimped anymore by the blocks (unless there is a bomb at the bottom).

 

[alphameric]

boat spikes are hilarious to boot and are more avoidable than the klap trap

 

[MetaKnight0]

Bridge of Eldin as possible team counterpick? It reminds me a lot of Mushroom Kingdom 2

Also in Melee Green Greens there are a lot less bombs than in Brawl. It took forever for the blocks to get 3 bombs and sometimes they wouldn't even at max size, but Brawl is constantly dropping bombs and I saw a lot of 3 bombs (or more? I think so) even at half size.

Circuit maybe banned, allowable in teams? It's not as though all sidewall gimps are skill-less

 

[Nodrak]

Delfino Plaza - chaingrab off the side?

Pokemon Stadium - Windmill sucks? that's a great reason to counterpick it. Sides are just as annoying as lylat cruise, the glitchy right side seems to only happen on one of the map changes

Battleship Halberd - Claw and laser negates its neutrality.
Norfair - Lava negates its neutrality.
Corneria - Lasers negate its neutrality.

Pirate Ship - Cannon balls 'negates neutrality' and the catapault is MUCH easier to avoid then the lava in norfair.
Skyworld - Not neutral because of breakable edges but there's no reason it should be banned

 

[infamousGK]

Delfino- the part of the level with the umbrellas. You can run/chaingrab off the side sooo that takes away from the neutrality as well as being able to come through the bottom of the level like GC mute city.

Norfair is No fair!!! If this BAD stage isn't banned it will be for the CoS tournies for sure! Jake please explain how it is easy to avoid the hazards. The capsule will rack up massive damage; Bowser and Charizard players will take you here all the time. Sometimes the lava comes up so that only one platform is left. With one platform there is no way to avoid the hazards.

 

[infamousGK]

After seeing that vid of Brawl on Green Greens I vote banned as well.

 

[homsar]

Norfair is No fair!!! If this BAD stage isn't banned it will be for the CoS tournies for sure! Jake please explain how it is easy to avoid the hazards. The capsule will rack up massive damage; Bowser and Charizard players will take you here all the time. Sometimes the lava comes up so that only one platform is left. With one platform there is no way to avoid the hazards.

I almost never get hit by lava with only one platform. Also, I just jump over the lava wall.

 

[D.B]

Norfair is No fair!!! If this BAD stage isn't banned it will be for the CoS tournies for sure!

lol

Spoiler

10toonlonks

 

[Percon]

For the record, in the most recent Niagara Biweelky, Miller counterpicked Mario Kart against me in order to so some fancy walk-off abuse with ICs or something. It didn't really work, and the match felt pretty normal. I say it's definitely CP.

 

[Pointman Rob]

I have no real experience on Norfair... whenever im jonesing for a metroid level I always pick Frigate Orpheon. (No ledge on the right is beeeeautiful for MK) I would say no-fair is counterpick though. the capsule is not necessary for most characters to avoid the lava wall. and having the lava cover all platforms except one is the risk you run. it doesn't happen all the time. it benefits some characters, sure. but its not an unfair advantage like walk-off stages are for dedede.

 

[Deleted member]

You don't need to hop into the capsule, you can shield the Lava. (or even airdodge it)

 

[KirbyKaze]

yo i have a question

why is everyone who doesn't participate in tournament environment making decisions according to stage legality.

i mean, cos doesn't go to any tournaments and jake doesn't either.

the only people here who've had any sort of experience in brawl singles in a serious environment is basically like sauga and niagaraland. and for brawl doubles it's probably the same thing.

and this is not to say you guys don't play brawl seriously because i'm sure you do but there's always a difference when money's on the line. in friendlies with chesterr01 against kage/thad me and reggie sort of jerked around and attacked when we had the lead but in tourney we ran away and camped like bitches.

also, norfair is pretty gay. the imminent death-threat that the lava poses (provided you don't reach the pod or whatever the hell it is) when it does the giant wave is pretty gay, in addition the ridiculous platform arrangement is highly conducive to camping. the edgeguarding there is gayed even harder with the like 3 separate sweetspot points on each side due to the nature of the stage, and it's just stupid on the whole. not sure if it's bannable yet. more testing is required.

 

[Deleted member]

before I answer your dumb and offensive question, answer mine:

why are you posting in a thread about a game that you don't want to play?

we've stopped the melee bashing, which was pretty much us joking around, but from the sounds what happened at your place yesterday, the brawl bashing hasn't. get over yourselves, and leave each party alone.

as for your post,

I've been playing smash competitively for much longer than you have, so saying i don't go to tournaments is ridiculous and irritating. just because i'm done with melee doesn't mean i'm done with competitive smash.

CoS have also gone to plenty of tournaments and you're forgetting that they had semi regular tournaments over at UoIT (iirc) before Smashturbation.

Now, they don't live close, so it's difficult for them to make each event. I understand and respect that a lot. Since this is a new game, we've come to a point where tournaments are going to happen, and for us to host the best one we can, I want to get rules set beforehand to make things less complicated. is that really so much to ask for?

 

[KirbyKaze]

uhh i'm asking because inadvertantly by helping charles (by hosting) i've wound up having to help run these.

so yeah. i sort of need to know what's legal or not and make sure that these are run in the most effective manner, which includes stock count, stages, and general rules.

also, i don't get it. we're not bashing the game. the game is slow. this is not an offensive remark. it's a fact. the grand finals for teams took just under an hour and thirty minutes, split between 9 games. this is slow. jiano and overswarm took about 20 for their bo3. for almost ANY fighting game's standard (not just melee) this is slow. tournament matches when people are trying to win are slow. how are we bashing it if this is how it's turning out?

edit: melee =/= brawl. brawl is so different than melee they're almost opposites. saying you have more smash experience is true, sure, but your brawl experience is probably about as much as i've had.

 

[Deleted member]

Then why didn't you post that in the first place? Your first post was just arrogance and elitism, which isn't constructive.

Also, Charles just messaged me saying that Melee will be at your house and Brawl will be at his - so you don't need to worry about Brawl rules.

Also, this stage discussion is for MY tournament(s) which I will be hosting sooner rather than later. My smash experience point isn't trying to offend you, it's basically trying to say that

in order for the stage list to be accurate and fair, everyone will get a chance to chime in their opinion. If you're not here to do that, I request you unsubscribe to this thread.

 

[Europhoria]

Because Jake's not an elitist and always considers the opinion of everyone.
Just make FD a counter pick stage because you STILL can't space anything and you cry about getting gimped. How you fail to space your recoveries in Brawl when it does all the work for you is beyond me though.

 

[Deleted member]

Sound the alarms! I called out David!

What's this?

Mike showed up? No way!

We all have our elitist moments. But here? In this thread? Why would you? Why WANT to cause **** in a thread about rules?? It just boggles my mind.

 

[Europhoria]

Actually I meant to post that when I first saw your post about FD because I fell off my chair laughing but I was too lazy. Your post to David just reminded me.

 

[Deleted member]

..........................................k

 

[alphameric]

AUGH
The new FD ledge is so lame. But that doesn't mean I don't take advantage of those with lesser recoveries :D

My understanding of this thread was to create a unanimous selection for stages to be used in the GTA and beyond. Whether or not some people show up to all events is irrelevant. This ensures that when people DO show up they aren't completely blindsided by the stage selection.

 

[Runawayfire]

Because Jake's not an elitist and always considers the opinion of everyone.
Just make FD a counter pick stage because you STILL can't space anything and you cry about getting gimped. How you fail to space your recoveries in Brawl when it does all the work for you is beyond me though.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I looooooove the way you try and trash talk Jake every chance you get. EVEN when there's nothing instigating it.
The part that makes it the greatest is no matter what you say HE BEAT YOU EVERY SET YOU EVER HAD OUTSIDE OF one time when you both picked Links. That must sting doesn't it? It stings so hard you just have to try and throw pety insults every chance you can.
So you can't do anything else... the only thing you can muster up is **** talk....

EVERY SINGLE TIME, and you trash talked then.... and we still beat you down. Hell I even ***** with you FALCO on YOUR counterpick..... and then after I didn't hear a peep out of you, musta been too busy shivering from the ****, or too humiliated cause I made a FOOL out of you.

We all know David's gay..... but if we ever forgot we could just watch you JOCK his **** from tournament to tournament and we'd remember nothings changed... Its funny how the one who's a million times better (David) also seems to talk a million times less ****.

Actions speak louder then words. You talk big, but every time it came down to it you failed.
And then you **** talk a bunch of the other players around your level..... as if you EVER won a tournament..... the closest your *** ever got to " Finals" was in university.


Oh, and dont reply to this with "LOL melee mm!?" cause your *** had your chance to challenge us the whole time we also played melee.... So if you wanna get humiliated for the hundreth time then step up in brawl.

The moral of this post? Shut the **** up with the **** talking.... you ain't ****.

 

[Deleted member]

Alls I know is if people trash talked for no reason like this community does for other fighting games, some people would get SERIOUSLY hurt.

Anyway guys, take it to PMs, or else I'm gonna have people warned, I want to keep this thread flame-free and constructive posts only.

Mike, Nate, whoever. I'm serious, shut up or face the dinosaurs.

 

[MetaKnight0]

Alls I know is if people trash talked for no reason like this community does for other fighting games, some people would get SERIOUSLY hurt.

Anyway guys, take it to PMs, or else I'm gonna have people warned, I want to keep this thread flame-free and constructive posts only.

Mike, Nate, whoever. I'm serious, shut up or face the dinosaurs.

Actually I think this trash talk is just about on par with the major fighting games aka those big enough to be on Evo Circuit.

But for MvC2, it was a Tuesday.

 

[TyrantWolf]

lolnewyorkmvc2players.

Jake, what characters does FD affect you the most with? I'm interested. The auto-sweetspoting of this game seems to be insanely huge, so I don't think I can see how FD gimps recoveries. If anything, this game prevents that. This post isn't to make you look like an asshat, I just want to discuss anyway.

 

[Niko_K]

Also I would be very interested in your reasoning as to why electroplankton shouldn't be banned. Along with norfair.

 

[D.B]

Because electroplakton is a stupid name

 

[infamousGK]

Runaway, easy there killer. Jake started **** talking because KirbyKaze -don't know who that name belongs to- started talking ****. Now if anyone talked to me the way you talked to Jake; forget about, literally because you wouldn't remember what happened! Jake respect for the logical post. I'm guessing the reason CoS and others didn't want to have brawl tournies so early is because CAMPING IS FOR **T**** and I for one don't want a tourny full of camping~! Yes I know some players aren't good enough to rack up damage without camping. "I realize some of the best Melee players were the best campers" (Andreson). Camping is boring play. Stop camping PLEASE it makes me want to unplug both controllers, play keep away with your controller jack and wait for sudden death (that would be more entertaining). Camping is okay in some situations, just not all ****ing game!

There are no combos in brawl we have to camp!?

 

[Kjdjy]

GK your posts are always awkward for some reason and I dont know why also I never said that also you spelled my name wrong also noone was talking about camping

Anyways I dunno who Jake plays but FD is pretty harsh on some characters regardless of the new sweetspotting. Offhand I'd say, Wolf, Shiek, Zelda get it the worst, but really most recoveries are horizontal, plus theres also Lylat Cruise which is in more or less the same boat as FD, still a neutral stage much like Melee's Battlefield and Pokemon Stadium. No johns.