Event - E3 Invitational 2014 E3 2014 Rumor/Leak Discussion Thread

[Gameboi834]

Hmm, I just read over the font analysis, and that's pretty damning, if you ask me. At the risk of someone accusing me of "trying to keep the leak alive," I'll question whether anyone thinks this Western font is an understandable difference that could appear in a Western demo, but not the final game?

The original pictures we're comparing it to are from the NA direct, so that would be the Western version anyway.

 

[BKupa666]

The original pictures we're comparing it to are from the NA direct, so that would be the Western version anyway.

Someone talking about the fonts claimed it was a "universal" font or something expensive that could have feasibly been accessed in Japan. I don't know if I interpreted the statement correctly or not, but that's what I read into it.

 

[Gameboi834]

Someone talking about the fonts claimed it was a "universal" font or something expensive that could have feasibly been accessed in Japan. I don't know if I interpreted the statement correctly or not, but that's what I read into it.

What I was saying is that there's no sense in using the Western font, the one in the fake, when the North American Direct, where we're getting the original font from, is there already.
Basically, the Japanese font for European lettters was in the North American Direct, so they wouldn't change it to that of the "leak".

 

[BKupa666]

What I was saying is that there's no sense in using the Western font, the one in the fake, when the North American Direct, where we're getting the original font from, is there already.
Basically, the Japanese font for European lettters was in the North American Direct, so they wouldn't change it to that of the "leak".

Got it. So yeah, while I don't buy into the principle of nitpicking the text of leaks, this instance of it pretty much shoots down hopes of it being real, since you're right, the odds that they'd switch from the universal font to a Western print font, the former of which few have access to but the latter of which everyone does, are nearly nonexistent.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So yeah, the CSS leak is not dead at all.
This leak is lasting longer than the other picture leaks out there.

 

[False Sense]

So yeah, the CSS leak is not dead at all.
This leak is lasting longer than the other picture leaks out there.

For a roster selection screen that shows no new characters, that doesn't mean much.

 

[Phaazoid]

So yeah, the CSS leak is not dead at all.
This leak is lasting longer than the other picture leaks out there.

It's the pre E3 drought. We need something or we'll go crazy xD

 

[Con0rrrr]

Just got back. So where are we now? Missed about 15 pages. When I left we were discussing fonts which meant very little. We still there?

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'd like to ask one question, and depending on the answer, I think I'll be 100% sure the leak is fake.

With the Pokemon X/Y font differences. Did the font change from a Japanese font to a Western font? Or did it go from Japanese font to a different Japanese font? If the 2nd one is the correct answer, I will think the leak is fake.

My point being, unless that a game has switched from Japanese to Western font before, I don't think that it would ever happen.

@ Artsy Omni could you analyze the two Pokemon fonts for us?

http://prntscr.com/1u80pv

 

[aldelaro5]

Just got back. So where are we now? Missed about 15 pages. When I left we were discussing fonts which meant very little. We still there?

It actually meant a lot. The font used in the direct would cost 577$ while the font used in the leak wouldn't make any sense (check @ Artsy Omni `s post for more detiail).

 

[Pieman0920]

For a roster selection screen that shows no new characters, that doesn't mean much.

It would mean certain things like the amount of characters, and the likelihood for newcomers in certain series. Like if the first pictures were real, then it would be unlikely Zelda or Mario have any newcomers, and nothing extra for Wario or Yoshi.

 

[TheAnvil]

It would mean certain things like the amount of characters, and the likelihood for newcomers in certain series. Like if the first pictures were real, then it would be unlikely Zelda or Mario have any newcomers, and nothing extra for Wario or Yoshi.

Wario and Yoshi are basically psuedo-Mario reps anyway. It was fairly obvious that they weren't getting any more characters. Especially after Ashley was revealed to be an AT.

 

[False Sense]

It would mean certain things like the amount of characters, and the likelihood for newcomers in certain series. Like if the first pictures were real, then it would be unlikely Zelda or Mario have any newcomers, and nothing extra for Wario or Yoshi.

That's not exactly what I meant. I mean that e fact that the leak has yet to be totally disproven doesn't mean much, because there's nothing about the leak that would really prove that it's anything more than a decent looking fake.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I'd like to ask one question, and depending on the answer, I think I'll be 100% sure the leak is fake.

With the Pokemon X/Y font differences. Did the font change from a Japanese font to a Western font? Or did it go from Japanese font to a different Japanese font? If the 2nd one is the correct answer, I will think the leak is fake.

My point being, unless that a game has switched from Japanese to Western font before, I don't think that it would ever happen.

@ Artsy Omni could you analyze the two Pokemon fonts for us?

http://prntscr.com/1u80pv

I did a little while ago. The two fonts are bitmap fonts, which is typical of a lot of 3DS games because of the small resolution of the screens. As such, they probably made the font themselves, since raster fonts in games are usually just a sheet.

And the two fonts aren't really 2 fonts, it seems. It looks like the flat topped A was traded out for a pointed A to further differentiate it from the square topped R that was only one pixel away from being a square topped A. The other characters in the word "Water" are identical.

I've state multiple times that it makes no sense for the game OR the demo to use Franklin Gothic, guys. =P The DF Gothic Japanese font has english characters in it so that localization process can be seamless for menus.

I can't convince people who don't believe that font choices have deep implications about validity, because that's their belief. But to me it's pretty obvious that the use of franklin gothic in the leaks is completely nonsensical in the context of the actual game because the UI elements in question were already working and have been shown in multiple screenshots to be working in both the Japanese and localized menus.

I don't know how to type in Japanese, nor what the Japanese buttons actually say on the menu, but if I could, I'd show you guys that the font used in the Japanese version is the same font, just using the japanese characters.

But whatever, I won't declare it dead, and if people want to hold out hope, that's their prerogative. But to claim that my font analysis doesn't mean much is just ignorance. And I mean that in the least offensive way possible.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Update: I believe the font used under the character portraits is Myriad, which is the default font for the Type Tool used in a large portion of the Adobe Creative Suite applications (meaning if you just opened the application and select the type tool, the font that is automatically selected is Myriad). This also screams "fake" to me, and is a rookie mistake for a person creating a hoax. =P It's essentially like the Times New Roman of graphic design.

I've updated the image to reflect this discovery:

Sorry for the double post. I thought it'd be more inconvenient to mix it with my previous post, knowing people might want to reply specifically to this.

 

[SpeedBoost]

While I still believe this leak to be fake based on all of the reasons I gave before (and the point about the font, I didn't really analyse the fonts beforehand), I find this image pretty amusing:

Also yeah, I think people predicting cuts should really stop at this point. It was stated in a very early interview that nobody was planned to be cut. They don't aim to cut any characters from Brawl.

With that in mind, it was also stated that the roster would not be expanded as much as it was in Brawl (a lot of people took this as "it will be smaller than Brawl"). Essentially, we're getting less newcomers.

So if anything, cutting characters seems like something they would really want to avoid this time around. Splitting up transformation characters also has the side effect of making the roster look bigger than it otherwise would.

Snake is literally the only newcomer I understand people being doubtful about, but even he still has a shot at this point.

This is EXACTLY what people were saying when the Brawl Roster was leaked. People need to open their eyes and take things lightly.

 

[Artsy Omni]

This is EXACTLY what people were saying when the Brawl Roster was leaked. People need to open their eyes and take things lightly.

This situation isn't the same though. We're comparing a shared UI element among the leaked character select screen and 2 other existing REAL menu screenshots. My Music and For Fun/For Glory screens both have the same page title header area, and in those screenshots, DF Gothic Japanese is used as the font. The CSS leak uses a font that is inconsistent with precedents that we already have at our disposal.

That picture picking apart Brawl's CSS is just a bunch of subjective mumbo jumbo based on opinion (and I realize that it's satire, but still). The font comparison I'm showing actually carries some weight. Does it "kill the leak?" I'm convinced at this point that you can't really kill a leak, since somebody somewhere will continue to believe it's real. But I will continue to insist that it's some weighty evidence against its legitimacy.

 

[aldelaro5]

This situation isn't the same though. We're comparing a shared UI element among the leaked character select screen and 2 other existing REAL menu screenshots. My Music and For Fun/For Glory screens both have the same page title header area, and in those screenshots, DF Gothic Japanese is used as the font. The CSS leak uses a font that is inconsistent with precedents that we already have at our disposal.

That picture picking apart Brawl's CSS is just a bunch of subjective mumbo jumbo based on opinion (and I realize that it's satire, but still). The font comparison I'm showing actually carries some weight. Does it "kill the leak?" I'm convinced at this point that you can't really kill a leak, since somebody somewhere will continue to believe it's real. But I will continue to insist that it's some weighty evidence against its legitimacy.

Why I didn't read your whole post history I love you so much now

 

[TheAnvil]

I did a little while ago. The two fonts are bitmap fonts, which is typical of a lot of 3DS games because of the small resolution of the screens. As such, they probably made the font themselves, since raster fonts in games are usually just a sheet.

And the two fonts aren't really 2 fonts, it seems. It looks like the flat topped A was traded out for a pointed A to further differentiate it from the square topped R that was only one pixel away from being a square topped A. The other characters in the word "Water" are identical.

I've state multiple times that it makes no sense for the game OR the demo to use Franklin Gothic, guys. =P The DF Gothic Japanese font has english characters in it so that localization process can be seamless for menus.

I can't convince people who don't believe that font choices have deep implications about validity, because that's their belief. But to me it's pretty obvious that the use of franklin gothic in the leaks is completely nonsensical in the context of the actual game because the UI elements in question were already working and have been shown in multiple screenshots to be working in both the Japanese and localized menus.

I don't know how to type in Japanese, nor what the Japanese buttons actually say on the menu, but if I could, I'd show you guys that the font used in the Japanese version is the same font, just using the japanese characters.

But whatever, I won't declare it dead, and if people want to hold out hope, that's their prerogative. But to claim that my font analysis doesn't mean much is just ignorance. And I mean that in the least offensive way possible.

 

[ToothiestAura]

This is EXACTLY what people were saying when the Brawl Roster was leaked. People need to open their eyes and take things lightly.

Was it an image? Because if it was an image that revealed entirely new renders, then they were stupid to not believe it. But if it wasn't they were right to not believe it. Text leaks require no skill to fake. This requires a modest skill with photoshop. I see no reason to believe this leak as nothing new was shown. Show me a new character render (of adequate quality and we'll talk).

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Was it an image? Because if it was an image that revealed entirely new renders, then they were stupid to not believe it. But if it wasn't they were right to not believe it. Text leaks require no skill to fake. This requires a modest skill with photoshop. I see no reason to believe this leak as nothing new was shown. Show me a new character render (of adequate quality and we'll talk).

It wasn't an image. It was an anonymous reviewer who had his early review copy that said 'Hey, I went through Subspace Emissary and here's all the characters I have unlocked.'. After that, people were so in denial from the disappointment that they essentially hoped and prayed there was more hidden characters.

 

[ToothiestAura]

It wasn't an image. It was an anonymous reviewer who had his early review copy that said 'Hey, I went through Subspace Emissary and here's all the characters I have unlocked.'. After that, people were so in denial from the disappointment that they essentially hoped and prayed there was more hidden characters.

Exactly, not even close to this. An image would have been essentially irrefutable, whereas text will most likely be thought of as fake.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Update: I can now confirm that DF Gothic Japanese is used for both the English and Japanese version of the With Anyone menu. I only went as far as showing the katakana and hiragana because it's a manageable character set (I went on wikipedia and found the glyphs used in the menu on their little chart). I'm not even going to TRY finding the matching Kanji characters.

 

[Richard Nixon]

The font discussion has definitely convinced me that this is fake. But, my only question is this (and pardon me if it's already been addressed): if it's fake, then what was up with all those re-posts supposedly being taken down on imgur? When the images were going down, people seemed pretty convinced that confirmed the leak to be true. Was that just imgur monitoring spam, or is there any reason to believe that was actually Nintendo's doing?

 

[Gameboi834]

The font discussion has definitely convinced me that this is fake. But, my only question is this (and pardon me if it's already been addressed): if it's fake, then what was up with all those re-posts supposedly being taken down on imgur? When the images were going down, people seemed pretty convinced that confirmed the leak to be true. Was that just imgur monitoring spam, or is there any reason to believe that was actually Nintendo's doing?

For all we know those people could have taken down their own pictures just to cry wolf.

 

[Artsy Omni]

The font discussion has definitely convinced me that this is fake. But, my only question is this (and pardon me if it's already been addressed): if it's fake, then what was up with all those re-posts supposedly being taken down on imgur? When the images were going down, people seemed pretty convinced that confirmed the leak to be true. Was that just imgur monitoring spam, or is there any reason to believe that was actually Nintendo's doing?

Given the nature of imgur and 4chan, I'd be hard pressed to believe that Nintendo regulates content that goes up on those sites. There's a billion images that get posted there without much rhyme or reason. It'd be difficult to regulate.

Besides, why wouldn't Nintendo tell actual gaming media websites (like gamnesia) to take down their articles regarding the images?

 

[Fastblade5035]

I've read through enough pages to last me until E3 today, I think I'll be leaving this thread for a while now.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Given the nature of imgur and 4chan, I'd be hard pressed to believe that Nintendo regulates content that goes up on those sites. There's a billion images that get posted there without much rhyme or reason. It'd be difficult to regulate.

Besides, why wouldn't Nintendo tell actual gaming media websites (like gamnesia) to take down their articles regarding the images?

Nintendo went out of their way to try to stop a bunch of guys sitting in a hotel conference room tournament from streaming Melee, this doesn't really seem outside the realm of possibility to me.

 

[Shroob]

*Gets stake in hand* ....Damn thing ain't comin' back to life a 3rd time goddamnit. Stay dead you pointless leak.

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

If this is real, everyone who said that this is fake will automatically turn around and say "nopedidn'tsayfake", or "HAHAHAHAH JUST KIDDING HAHA". That saying, I'll probably being saying the second quote.

 

[Scoob]

Which youtuber guy?

I think his name is Pro Jared? Never heard of him, but next thing you know, it'll be pewdiepie and tobuscus on stage screaming like children over the new Smash game. That's not what I want to happen.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Update: I can now confirm that DF Gothic Japanese is used for both the English and Japanese version of the With Anyone menu. I only went as far as showing the katakana and hiragana because it's a manageable character set (I went on wikipedia and found the glyphs used in the menu on their little chart). I'm not even going to TRY finding the matching Kanji characters.

It is such a simple explanation.

Nintendo uses a font that is only available in Japan. A US leaker couldn't remake that font so they used the closest thing, which was Franklin Gothic. You can see the clear differences in font. Also, if you are wondering "well maybe they only used that font for that single menu?"

When Nintendo showed off "My Music" it uses thats same Japanese font in the words "My Music", so it doesn't make to change it to a generic american font. I'm pretty sure we finally debunked it.

 

[Artsy Omni]

It is such a simple explanation.

Nintendo uses a font that is only available in Japan. A US leaker couldn't remake that font so they used the closest thing, which was Franklin Gothic. You can see the clear differences in font. Also, if you are wondering "well maybe they only used that font for that single menu?"

When Nintendo showed off "My Music" it uses thats same Japanese font in the words "My Music", so it doesn't make to change it to a generic american font. I'm pretty sure we finally debunked it.

Just to be accurate, the font is available in the US (seeing that I have access to their website) but your average joe wouldn't know that there even are distinctions between Japanese and Western fonts.

btw, I updated the image with the my music menu screenshot just to be thorough.

Oh, and the logic behind using a different font for the listing of music is that DF Gothic Japanese is a display typeface, which is used for titles and headlines, but it isn't meant for large bodies of text, as it's not as readable, so it makes sense to use a more basic sans serif typeface for the music listing. The font used in the music listing is the same font used in Brawl's music listing, for those who are curious.

 

[Bauske]

I hate to be that guy, but in X and Y people used the font argument to dismiss two perfectly existing Pokemon. Here's a good example of said arguments used to disprove "Greninja" back before it was 100% confirmed to be true.

http://prntscr.com/1u80pv

and another solid argument people used (even though I disagreed with both but meh)

http://imgur.com/a/e1cdR

So I wouldn't take this debunk as absolute even if the font generally does lead credentials to it (edit being fake I mean)

Note: Second one was more disproving Hawlucha but regardless.

I've done a lot of graphic design in my years, and I can say that those points he brings up to disprove those screenshot are all invalid. The gender symbol is too far? No it's not. It's the exact same distance. Gender symbol is missing? How about blurry screenshot and it got lost in the mix. Looking at the leaked screenshots and actual ones, I see no difference (other than the A being changed, but as Hex said, there's a good reason for the change), and that's coming from a well trained eye. That said...

So is it fake or what?
The leak isn't really killed, there are some slight differences between the font, and i don't think it kills it.

I think in this instance it does. As @ Artsy Omni stated in his wonderful post, the fonts are completely different. Some may say "but couldn't they change the font?" Sure, they could. But why would they change it from a professional font that has both English and Japanese characters in it to a font that only has English and is available on pretty much any home computer out there or available for free on the internet? The answer is, they wouldn't. But someone creating a fake screenshot on their computer could totally use that font. Because it looks similar enough. @ Artsy Omni nailed this on the head. If you still can't see the font discrepancies, then there's nothing we can do to convince you. However, after he's pointed it out, I can see them clear as day, and for the life of me I can't understand why Nintendo would choose the less professional font over the other. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Senselessbreak]

The font used in the leak looks more like the Japanese Gothic than the free gothic font. I'd say thay adds more support to it.

 

[Artsy Omni]

The font used in the leak looks more like the Japanese Gothic than the free gothic font. I'd say thay adds more support to it.

lolwut?

 

[Pazzo.]

Looking at what @ Artsy Omni said, the roster is leaning towards fake..

30/70

 

[Luigi#1]

WOOHOO!!!

 

[Senselessbreak]

lolwut?

The "i" and the "r" match perfectly, in contrast to the free font and most others I glanced seemed the same

Edit: the "e" matches perfectly, as the franklin one is not as skinny.
the "A" matches as the inside is a lot smaller than the franklin.
"o" is skinnier and matches
"F" matches as it has a skinnier gap

"t" and "s" do not match however

Which is puzzling, but most of the font matches the Japanese Gothic exactly, so either its the real deal, or person used a mix. Definitely not an exact match with the Franklin Gothic

 

[Gameboi834]

Looking at what @ Artsy Omni said, the roster is leaning towards fake..

30/70

Nah, it's totally fake by now.

I think we should move our efforts towards disecting the supposed invitational leak.