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Event - E3 Invitational 2014 E3 2014 Rumor/Leak Discussion Thread

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D

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Lol, most everyone else would disagree with you. At the very least Palutena. That said I fully believe Ridley is playable as well (though I wouldn't bet on it :p).

Either way its fun to chat about how ridiculously fanservice-y this guy is being.
People tend to have bias, without it, Palutena is in the same spot as Ridley, the only diffrence is that one of them has the most credible leak in Smash history
 

Dinoman96

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People tend to have bias, without it, Palutena is in the same spot as Ridley, the only diffrence is that one of them has the most credible leak in Smash history
...she really isn't. Not once did Sakurai say during the direct did Sakurai say "We also have some NPC characters lying around, ahuh" while showing a vague glimpse of Palutena's hair or something.

The difference between Palutena and Ridley is very clear: We haven't actually seen Palutena in any shape or form (at the time of writing this), not counting look-a-likes/statues. Ridley, on the other hand, as been shown off on the Pyrosphere (When Sakurai was talking about stage bosses may I add), and he's 99.99% (If I'm being really generous, by the way) an unplayable boss character.

And while I don't doubt Palutena's chances at this point, I don't understand why people still believe in those images. Here's what I found that I believe to be really damning.



Look at the red circled parts. Notice how in the in the actual game (The two images on the right come from the Direct/very recent press release images by the way), Mario's pants are curved looking....this isn't the case in the Palutena images.

And before you call me out on this, here's an image of Mario that came out way before these images.



So, unless Sakurai decided to uncurve Mario's overalls in time for the leaks, only to make them curve again for the Direct, I think that's enough to disprove the images.
 
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Ganonthegreat

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That would be damning if it wasn't for the fact that we actually have no time frame on that leak. It's very possible that the Palutena photo was taken ages ago and just took a while to surface.

Yes it's evidence I don't doubt, but it's not de-confirming the leak.
 

ChunkyBeef

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While I want this "leak" to be true, it's certainly fake, anyone with "leak" in their username is just trying to fake it, if you really have inside information, you aren't going to go by the name "LeakerBros", it's like if a spy's codename was "Spy", you're basically giving it away.
You're aware that on a place like 4chan, you can name yourself whatever you want, right? It's an anonymous message board. Anyone can post there. Most don't name themselves, but you can if you want to. The guy's name doesn't add or remove any credibility from the 'leak'.

It's the sheer number of characters he's suggesting we're getting is what's questionable, and I'll be honest, I thought he was shooting himself in the foot with the second 'leak', but this recent third one was tantamount to digging his own grave. As much as I'd love to see the leak confirmed myself, 'cause it's friggin' amazing, the problem lies in the fact that, as much as we want an enormous roster, it's not likely to happen, though not for the reasons people expect.

Sakurai is the kind of guy who plans ahead. If he puts in everything people would love to see into one game, cram packs the roster.. what's he going to put into the next game? We were hitting walls and digging in the bottoms of barrels half-way through Brawl, and it shows that the same problem is present here. I mean, when Sakurai is sweeping Wii Fit Trainer's reveal under the rug and going back on what he said about Villager being too much of a pacifist to fight, there's an issue. The guy's struggling, and it's plain to see.

Notice how most of the newcomers are recent stars? Little Mac had the Wii game a while back, still fairly fresh on everyone's minds. Rosalina will always be popular for whatever reason, they're probably cranking out Galaxy 3/Universe somewhere in Japan. Animal Crossing just received one of its most popular iterations it's ever had on 3DS. Greninja is the most popular Pokemon from X and Y, an extremely new iteration in the popular franchise. Mega Man, well, people have been begging for that guy since Melee. Only Wii Fit Trainer really sticks out as being out of place.

tl;dr: Sakurai's been running out of ideas since Brawl due to dipping his fingers into mostly recent franchises, which insists the roster won't be cram packed as the 4chan fantasy leaker is insinuating it's going to be.

Good thing everyone's got their grains of salt handy on this one.
 
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Dinoman96

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That would be damning if it wasn't for the fact that we actually have no time frame on that leak. It's very possible that the Palutena photo was taken ages ago and just took a while to surface.

Yes it's evidence I don't doubt, but it's not de-confirming the leak.
That doesn't make too much sense to me. Someone took a photo of Palutena from ages ago, only to very recently show it off? If I was leaking something, I'd show it off right away.

So no, I don't particularly buy that theory.
 

CaptainCrisb

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People tend to have bias, without it, Palutena is in the same spot as Ridley, the only diffrence is that one of them has the most credible leak in Smash history
B-but Palutena didn't have her silouhette in the Kid Icarus stage with some text stating "Other boss character appearances" :troll:
 
D

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...she really isn't. Not once did Sakurai say during the direct did Sakurai say "We also have some NPC characters lying around, ahuh" while showing a vague glimpse of Palutena's hair or something.

The difference between Palutena and Ridley is very clear: We haven't actually seen Palutena in any shape or form (at the time of writing this), not counting looks-a-likes/statues. Ridley, on the other hand, as been shown off on the Pyrosphere (When Sakurai was talking about stage bosses may I add), and he's 99.99% (If I'm being really generous, by the way) an unplayable boss character.
Do you really want me to go through this? *sigh* fine:
BOTH have the stages they are fight in the game
BOTH weren't mentioned by name "The trauma" and "The Goddess of Light"
BOTH had COPIES of them shown during the Direct
BOTH had a quote that implies their presence in the stage "may appear at any second" and "watches over the arena"
BOTH are the second most important chars from the games they come from
BOTH are big
And they came from series who are known as sister series
 

Hinata

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B-but Palutena didn't have her silouhette in the Kid Icarus stage with some text stating "Other boss character appearances" :troll:
Palutena iz boss confermd

BOTH are big
I object to this point. Lady Palutena is not actually that big. She's about as tall as, say, Zelda, for example. She can project an image of herself that she can make as big as she wants, sure, but she's not actually that big.

EDIT: Damn double posts...
 
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CaptainCrisb

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Do you really want me to go through this? *sigh* fine:
BOTH have the stages they are fight in the game
BOTH weren't mentioned by name "The trauma" and "The Goddess of Light"
BOTH had COPIES of them shown during the Direct
BOTH had a quote that implies their presence in the stage "may appear at any second" and "watches over the arena"
BOTH are the second most important chars from the games they come from
BOTH are big
And they came from series who are known as sister series
1. Uh... grammar... uh...
2. So? Your point is?
3. What do you mean by copies?
4. That's because there was a statue of Palutena. Have you played Uprising?
5. Mother Brain isn't? Kraid? What about Anthony (heheheheh... don't take the Anthony part seriously)
6. Nopenopenopenopenopenopenope. Or else all Palutena fans would be spammed with "2 big". You don't see that around do ya
 
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D

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I object to this point. Lady Palutena is not actually that big. She's about as tall as, say, Zelda, for example. She can project an image of herself that she can make as big as she wants, sure, but she's not actually that big.

EDIT: Damn double posts...
That was just a joke, like how some Ridley detractors say he ha a "Smash canon size", well, so does Palutena :p
Nothing against her, she just doesn't receive much atention from me because I already know she's in the game and no one want to discuss about it, while Ridley in the other hand...

EDIT:
1. Uh... grammar... uh...
2. So? Your point is?
3. What do you mean by copies?
4. That's because there was a statue of Palutena. Have you played Uprising?
5. Mother Brain isn't? What about Anthony (heheheheh... don't take the Anthony part seriously)
6. Nopenopenopenopenopenopenope. Or else all Palutena fans would be spammed with "2 big". You don't see that around do ya
1. Grammar?
2. My point is that they were treated in the same way
3. Pseudo-Palutena is a copy made by Dyntos
4. I played Uprising and are you telling me a statue watches over the arena?
5. Mother Brain was in 2 games, Ridley is the main villain
6. It was just a joke, I will never understand why size is such an issue
 
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Hinata

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That was just a joke, like how some Ridley detractors say he ha a "Smash canon size", well, so does Palutena :p
Nothing against her, she just doesn't receive much atention from me because I already know she's in the game and no one want to discuss about it, while Ridley in the other hand...
Ah, I see. Well then, ignore my berating of you.
 

JaidynReiman

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You're aware that on a place like 4chan, you can name yourself whatever you want, right? It's an anonymous message board. Anyone can post there. Most don't name themselves, but you can if you want to. The guy's name doesn't add or remove any credibility from the 'leak'.

It's the sheer number of characters he's suggesting we're getting is what's questionable, and I'll be honest, I thought he was shooting himself in the foot with the second 'leak', but this recent third one was tantamount to digging his own grave. As much as I'd love to see the leak confirmed myself, 'cause it's friggin' amazing, the problem lies in the fact that, as much as we want an enormous roster, it's not likely to happen, though not for the reasons people expect.

Sakurai is the kind of guy who plans ahead. If he puts in everything people would love to see into one game, cram packs the roster.. what's he going to put into the next game? We were hitting walls and digging in the bottoms of barrels half-way through Brawl, and it shows that the same problem is present here. I mean, when Sakurai is sweeping Wii Fit Trainer's reveal under the rug and going back on what he said about Villager being too much of a pacifist to fight, there's an issue. The guy's struggling, and it's plain to see.

Notice how most of the newcomers are recent stars? Little Mac had the Wii game a while back, still fairly fresh on everyone's minds. Rosalina will always be popular for whatever reason, they're probably cranking out Galaxy 3/Universe somewhere in Japan. Animal Crossing just received one of its most popular iterations it's ever had on 3DS. Greninja is the most popular Pokemon from X and Y, an extremely new iteration in the popular franchise. Mega Man, well, people have been begging for that guy since Melee. Only Wii Fit Trainer really sticks out as being out of place.

tl;dr: Sakurai's been running out of ideas since Brawl due to dipping his fingers into mostly recent franchises, which insists the roster won't be cram packed as the 4chan fantasy leaker is insinuating it's going to be.

Good thing everyone's got their grains of salt handy on this one.
I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at. Sakurai has always been throwing in random characters ever since Melee. I don't think Sakurai is "digging at the bottom of the barrel" at all. There's still plenty of Nintendo IP's to work with. I think he added Wii Fit Trainer and Villager because he LEGITIMATELY wanted to add Wii Fit Trainer and Villager.
 

Dinoman96

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BOTH have the stages they are fight in the game
BOTH weren't mentioned by name "The trauma" and "The Goddess of Light"
BOTH had COPIES of them shown during the Direct
BOTH had a quote that implies their presence in the stage "may appear at any second" and "watches over the arena"
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Psuedo-Palutena =/= Palutena. Other M Ridley, while having a different body, is still the same character as, well, Ridley.
4. "watches over the arena" doesn't exactly imply Palutena's about to jump onto the stage like with "may appear at any second" and Ridley. I was thought Sakurai was refering to the Palutena statue watching the arena anyway.
 
D

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1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Psuedo-Palutena =/= Palutena. Other M Ridley, while having a different body, is still the same character as, well, Ridley.
4. "watches over the arena" doesn't exactly imply Palutena's about to jump onto the stage like with "may appear at any second" and Ridley. I was thought Sakurai was refering to the Palutena statue watching the arena anyway.
3. Other M Ridley is a CLONE
http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Ridley
Read the Other M section
4. It implies she's watching the arena, and "may appear at any second" implies he may be anything, even when I was a detractor, I never understood that logic
 

Hinata

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3. Other M Ridley is a CLONE
http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Ridley
Read the Other M section
4. It implies she's watching the arena, and "may appear at any second" implies he may be anything, even when I was a detractor, I never understood that logic
"May appear at any second" implies that, no matter what's going on in the stage, no matter who's being played, he could appear, thus implying stage hazard/boss.
 

ChunkyBeef

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I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at. Sakurai has always been throwing in random characters ever since Melee. I don't think Sakurai is "digging at the bottom of the barrel" at all. There's still plenty of Nintendo IP's to work with. I think he added Wii Fit Trainer and Villager because he LEGITIMATELY wanted to add Wii Fit Trainer and Villager.
What I'm getting at is that the roster will never be 'cram packed' with characters like the 4chan leaker is insisting is the case, because Sakurai knows that adding in all the characters people want (and look at the leak as a whole, it's a genuinely amazing leak), he won't have characters to use to bring us in for the next Smash.

I don't mean 'hitting walls' and 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' as a bad thing, or an insult. Imagine Sakurai as a fish salesman at the market. Over transit to his market stall, his barrel full of fish has sorted out so all the juicy, large and desirable fish are near the top and all the smaller, less desirable fish are at the bottom. Each day - or iteration of Smash - Sakurai lays out three or four of those big, delicious fish to bring in the customers, and then purposely digs to the bottom of the barrel to get the smaller fish to lay out for people to take with the big fish for free. Because he knows if he puts out all his big, tasty fish in one day, it's all going to go and no-one's going to come the next day for just tiny little fish no-one cared about.
 

JaidynReiman

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What I'm getting at is that the roster will never be 'cram packed' with characters like the 4chan leaker is insisting is the case, because Sakurai knows that adding in all the characters people want (and look at the leak as a whole, it's a genuinely amazing leak), he won't have characters to use to bring us in for the next Smash.

I don't mean 'hitting walls' and 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' as a bad thing, or an insult. Imagine Sakurai as a fish salesman at the market. Over transit to his market stall, his barrel full of fish has sorted out so all the juicy, large and desirable fish are near the top and all the smaller, less desirable fish are at the bottom. Each day - or iteration of Smash - Sakurai lays out three or four of those big, delicious fish to bring in the customers, and then purposely digs to the bottom of the barrel to get the smaller fish to lay out for people to take with the big fish for free. Because he knows if he puts out all his big, tasty fish in one day, it's all going to go and no-one's going to come the next day for just tiny little fish no-one cared about.
That's... a weird analogy, but I get what you're saying.
 
D

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"May appear at any second" implies that, no matter what's going on in the stage, no matter who's being played, he could appear, thus implying stage hazard/boss.
It implies he *MAY* appear, the context was never specified nor implied, an Assist may appear at any second, a playable char may appear at any second
 

Shadowwolflink

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That was just a joke, like how some Ridley detractors say he ha a "Smash canon size", well, so does Palutena :p
Nothing against her, she just doesn't receive much atention from me because I already know she's in the game and no one want to discuss about it, while Ridley in the other hand...

EDIT:

1. Grammar?
2. My point is that they were treated in the same way
3. Pseudo-Palutena is a copy made by Dyntos
4. I played Uprising and are you telling me a statue watches over the arena?
5. Mother Brain was in 2 games, Ridley is the main villain
6. It was just a joke, I will never understand why size is such an issue
He was talking about you saying "BOTH have the stages they are fight in the game", that isn't proper grammar, I think you mean "BOTH have stages based on the areas where they are fought in the games".
 
D

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He was talking about you saying "BOTH have the stages they are fight in the game", that isn't proper grammar, I think you mean "BOTH have stages based on the areas where they are fought in the games".
Sorry, english is not my native language. but, anyway, back on-topic, new leaks anyone?
 

ScottyWK

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Sorry, english is not my native language. but, anyway, back on-topic, new leaks anyone?
Yeah, I found one. My friend who knows a guy in Japan that works for Namco told me that Pac-Man is not playable. But you cannot debunk this leak because there is no tangible way to prove it.

Can everyone talk about me now?
 
D

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Yeah, I found one. My friend who knows a guy in Japan that works for Namco told me that Pac-Man is not playable. But you cannot debunk this leak because there is no tangible way to prove it.

Can everyone talk about me now?
Gematsu leak disproved guys, we can go home now
 
D

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Yeah, I honestly have no idea what I was thinking there, but it sounded great at the time.
I thought it worked. When sell all your good fish in one day, you're left with stuff no one wants to buy, and you have to wait for the fish to reproduce and make more good fish. (In other words, wait for new IPs to be introduced) The only question is if newcomers are fish, what are cuts? People throwing up the fish you sold them?
 

Hoots

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Yeah, I found one. My friend who knows a guy in Japan that works for Namco told me that Pac-Man is not playable. But you cannot debunk this leak because there is no tangible way to prove it.

Can everyone talk about me now?
I ****ing wish.
 

ChunkyBeef

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I thought it worked. When sell all your good fish in one day, you're left with stuff no one wants to buy, and you have to wait for the fish to reproduce and make more good fish. (In other words, wait for new IPs to be introduced) The only question is if newcomers are fish, what are cuts? People throwing up the fish you sold them?
People bringing back the fish you sold them the other day, I guess? That's a good question. XD
 

Senselessbreak

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Clearly dinoman doesnt understand perspectives, as one thing can be curved from one angle, and straight in another.

Real life example:

Looking at the overalls from the side:

Overalls from the front

I know we debate this all the time Dinoman, but its more credible the fact that they are curved in one perspective and straight in another. Thats how geometry works
 
D

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There was a Youtuber called SonicToast who was trying to disprove the Palutena leak based that it didn't have the menu options from the pause menu :p
 

Senselessbreak

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There was a Youtuber called SonicToast who was trying to disprove the Palutena leak based that it didn't have the menu options from the pause menu :p
But why does that matter? The bottom screen could have been, WIP. Also the photos got a great focused position of the top screen, something many fakes can never seem to do. And we also have no idea what the UI looks like when the game is in camera mode when paused.
 

Dinoman96

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Clearly dinoman doesnt understand perspectives, as one thing can be curved from one angle, and straight in another.

Real life example:

Looking at the overalls from the side:

Overalls from the front

I know we debate this all the time Dinoman, but its more credible the fact that they are curved in one perspective and straight in another. Thats how geometry works
...i have no idea what you're trying to prove there. Those aren't even the same pair of overalls.

The fact is, Mario's overalls design is different in the leaks from the actual game.



In the actual game, it's curved. In the "leak", it's a straight line.
 
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D

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But why does that matter? The bottom screen could have been, WIP. Also the photos got a great focused position of the top screen, something many fakes can never seem to do. And we also have no idea what the UI looks like when the game is in camera mode when paused.
I was saying on how stupid the assumption was
 

Con0rrrr

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There was a Youtuber called SonicToast who was trying to disprove the Palutena leak based that it didn't have the menu options from the pause menu :p
I mean, that isn't a stupid point. Why would the 3DS screen be zoomed in this far on the two characters with no UI seen? Doesn't make sense in reality. Not enough to disprove it of course.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I mean, that isn't a stupid point. Why would the 3DS screen be zoomed in this far on the two characters with no UI seen? Doesn't make sense in reality. Not enough to disprove it of course.
He's possibly viewing it as a screenshot, explaining the lack of the pause menu UI.

"May appear at any second" implies that, no matter what's going on in the stage, no matter who's being played, he could appear, thus implying stage hazard/boss.
While we're at taking everything literally, I guess Palutena is always watching in the background of Palutena's Temple no matter what. It's just a reference to Ridley's appearance on the Pyrosphere in Other M, the three dots after the sentence heavily indicate that it's not supposed to be taken as a confirmation of anything, it's just flavor text. Flavor texts can be an indication, but if you're trying to bring Ridley down the shadow is a much bigger hit to go for, and is the reason I don't have much faith in him anymore, the original quote means nothing at this point basically.
 
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Con0rrrr

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He's possibly viewing it as a screenshot, explaining the lack of the pause menu UI.
But.. Why? Why not pause and take a screenshot, which still would not explain the odd "staged-ness" of the photo, or take a screenshot of the gameplay, which would not explain the absence a UI, or the awkward zoom. Even if it was in development, the context of how this gameplay scenario could have happened does not make sense, and we'd likely see something on the screen to indicate it's an in development build such as something in the top left or right hand corners of the screen.
 

MasterOfKnees

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But.. Why? Why not pause and take a screenshot, which still would not explain the odd "staged-ness" of the photo, or take a screenshot of the gameplay, which would not explain the absence a UI, or the awkward zoom. Even if it was in development, the context of how this gameplay scenario could have happened does not make sense, and we'd likely see something on the screen to indicate it's an in development build such as something in the top left or right hand corners of the screen.
Those are good points, and I really can't answer any of them. I will say that looking too much into the circumstances that leaked screenshots are taken under isn't that great of an idea, since the guy who takes the screenshot is often hardly pressed. I don't think it matters too much though, since the Palutena fake-out + Palutena's Temple + Gematsu has basically confirmed her anyways, so I'm not really going to try and dig deep into it. At least we can hope for a model with a less awkward nose I guess.
 

Kuragari

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So, I'm making a roster based off of LeakerBros and Sal Romano, with the addition of Mewtwo and assuming all veterans (except Squirtle and Ivysaur) return.


I'm leaning on fake side for this one, but it does match the pattern of the # of newcomers, making 21, one extra over the previous pattern of 2 more newcomers per game (not including Mewtwo as a newcomer):

  1. Villager (Animal Crossing)
  2. Mega Man (Mega Man)
  3. Wii Fit Trainer (Wii Fit)
  4. Rosalina & Luma (Super Mario Bros.)
  5. Little Mac (Punch-Out!!)
  6. Greninja (Pokemon)
  7. Mii (Pilotwings/Find Mii/Wii Sports)
  8. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
  9. Palutena (Kid Icarus)
  10. Shulk (Xenoblade Chronicles)
  11. Chrom (Fire Emblem)
  12. Chorus Men (Rhythm Heaven)
  13. Donkey Kong Country Newcomer (We all know it's K. Rool)
  14. The Legend of Zelda Newcomer
  15. Robin/ My Avatar Unit (Fire Emblem)
  16. Ridley (Metroid)
  17. Hades (Kid Icarus)
  18. Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
  19. Mike Jones (StarTropics)
  20. Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby's Dream Land)
  21. Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo!)
Now, looking over this, it's highly unlikely. But I do want to point out some interesting trends:

-In each Smash Bros. game, at least two series get more than one newcomer, one always being Pokemon. In SSB64, it was Mario and Pokemon. In Melee, it was Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Fire Emblem. In Brawl, it was Pokemon and Kirby. In this, it would be Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem and, if a returning veteran counts, Pokemon.

-Bolded characters were in high support pre-E3, using @Shorts' SSB4 poll in Early 2012 to Mid 2013, from A Tier to D Tier, which was when it was in development (and still is). These characters cover quite a few, the only huge noticeable newcomers missing are Isaac, Krystal and Toad/Bowser Junior/Waluigi.

-It does cover a lot of Nintendo's recent projects, much like Melee and Brawl added characters or franchises introduced between their game and the previous. Since Brawl, Mario Galaxy became a classic (Rosalina), Nintendo aimed to a more casual audience (WFT, Miis, Chorus Men), Kid Icarus was revived (Palutena & Hades), Fire Emblem grew (Chrom, Robin), etc.

-Expanding current franchises with new and old favorites. Green characters belong to a pre-existing franchise. Looking at this, we can see that Pokemon would get both a Gen I (Mewtwo) back, plus a "shiny" new Gen VI character (Greninja) to play with. Metroid gets it's long awaited villain, as does (likely) Donkey Kong Country. Mario gets a heroine from it's latest adventures, Kirby gets it's P4 and fan favorite, and Zelda gets an unknown character (I kind of assume it would be Tingle or Ghirahim).

-Lots of new franchises, represented by red text. Including Mega Man and Pac-Man, this would introduce 11 new franchises with playable characters, compared to the 10 of 64, 3 of Melee and 5 of Brawl. Didn't Sakurai say he would focus on new franchises, or am I mixing it up?

Either way, while the huge amount of characters and strange decisions by the poster point towards it being fake, it's a good roster and follows rules set by previous Smash games.
Very much doubt we are getting 20 newcomers on top of Brawl's roster. A lot of those wanted newcomers are just downright obscure and make no sense. You know the more you hype yourself up about the game, the easier it is to be disappointed :p
 

Hinata

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But.. Why? Why not pause and take a screenshot,
Take a demo copy of the game, put it in the 3DS, take a screenshot, save it to the 3DS camera, put the demo copy back, take a picture of the screenshot when nobody's looking to up chances of avoiding capture.

If that's what you mean, that is. If not, ignore me.
 
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Con0rrrr

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Take a demo copy of the game, put it in the 3DS, take a screenshot, save it to the 3DS camera, put the demo copy back, take a picture of the screenshot when nobody's looking to up chances of avoiding capture.

If that's what you mean, that is. If not, ignore me.
Exactly though. Why go through all that trouble that makes zero sense
 
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